Did RBs Kill Bucs’ 2017 Season?
January 26th, 2018
Doomed 2017 season.
An interesting question as to what Pearl Harbored the Bucs in 2017.
Bonnie Mott over at BucsWire.com posed a rhetorical question, asking aloud if the Bucs not addressing the running back position last offseason doomed the team.
Well, the Bucs did address it, but with the wrong guy, SnoopDog McPlaybook.
But to answer Mott’s question, an unquestionable hell yes it killed the Bucs. For reasons not quite clear, Dirk Koetter banked on Doug Martin to be the 2015 Doug Martin. It blew up in his face.
Joe was chatting with an offensive assistant at the East-West Shrine Game practices last week in St. Petersburg and mentioned to the coach what Joe thought was the main issue for the offense.
Joe: You know what every defense tries to do to the offense?
Assistant: Stop the run?
Joe: Well, yeah, true. But thanks for snowplowing the road for Joe. Defenses try to make an offense one-dimensional. Because the running game struggled, the offense was regularly one-dimensional and it dragged the entire offense down too much each week.
The Bucs relied primarily on a guy whose best days are behind him, and maybe his NFL days, too.
That’s why — despite the Bucs desperately needing a pass rush — if somehow Saquon Barkley and Bradley Chubb were both on the draft board when Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht goes on the clock in April, Joe would probably pick Barkley.
All of a sudden, the offense would be no longer one-dimensional. And a better offense keeps the ball out of the hands of your opponent.
January 26th, 2018 at 9:06 am
PLEASE Joe..Please.. Stop bustin my knees Bro!! How many more scapegoats we gonna offer for our Bucs 5-11 record? I see many teams who did more with less than we had. Yet every player is at fault other than Koetter and Pressbox Smitty.
I guess next article we will be blaming Koetters water boy for not keeping the coaches hydrated.
January 26th, 2018 at 9:07 am
I ain’t the coaching it is the talent….
January 26th, 2018 at 9:13 am
Joe is on point with this piece. The bucs do not have the talent. I’m not sure Smith had much input on the RB situation so he really shouldn’t be blamed for that. Koetter is at fault to some extent, but there is a lack of talent. That’s more so on Licht than Koetter. All but 1 of the top ten rushing teams in the NFL are in the playoff’s. No coincidence there.
January 26th, 2018 at 9:16 am
You can get a good running back in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Pass rusher… not so much!
January 26th, 2018 at 9:19 am
I’m fine with Barkley if Chubb/Nelson are gone but only in that scenario
January 26th, 2018 at 9:20 am
There are several factors, like no running game, lack of talent in specific areas,QB inconsistency, bad defense and sometimes bad play calling, is not one thing!!! Another bad season, no doubt about that, but the difference with other seasons is that I am optimistic for next year, if we cann add some talent in specific areas like RB, DE and another piece on the OL we can be in contention.
January 26th, 2018 at 9:33 am
AlteredEgo Says:
January 26th, 2018 at 9:07 am
I ain’t the coaching it is the talent….
first we had no talent on defense….now we have no talent on offense…..LOL….so the entire team is full on PS players…..the same team that won 9games last year and added more talent to its roster this year still only has 5-11 talent…..that’s complete BS…..
funny how the run game started to pick up once barber became the man….
what killed us was the stupid decision NOT to play barber earlier in the season….that is what killed us…..
so if we have “no talent” on offense or defense, why are the glazers only giving dirk and co 1year to get it right?….why are they on the hot seat if we have “no talent”…..
regarding who to pick: i’ll take nelson over barkley if chubb is off the board….id pick chubb if nelson was gone over barkley…..
GO BUCS!!!!
January 26th, 2018 at 9:40 am
the coaching is what killed us….
from bad play calling….to lack of adjustments….
from poor preparation to poor game planning…..
from using wrong/bad personnel to coming out flat….
that all points to coaching or lack their of…..its unbelievable the amount of excuses folks have for this staff….GO BUCS!!!
January 26th, 2018 at 9:44 am
Seriously Joe? Barkley over Chubb? I mean he’s a great player but there is a lot of talent at that position in later rounds.
My problem with Koetter isn’t that he decided to back up Martin and give him one more chance, it’s that he stuck with him so long after the season started. He should have moved on to Barber way earlier in the season.
I know there are two Joes but you guys need to choose a side and stick to it. You jump back and forth so much hating on the pass rush but then you come out and say that Bradley Chubb isn’t at the top of your big board.
January 26th, 2018 at 9:57 am
Of course, it was RB that killed our season. Getting a first down now and then by a run helps to drain the clock and giving the D a rest, the ability to punch the ball in from 4 yards out gets you 7 instead of 4. Granted, there were games this season in which the kicking doomed us – but even in this games having a run game would have helped…
Regarding the draft talk: Chubb, Barkley, Nelson, Fitzpatrick are the 4 quality players in the draft, which means we need three QBs to be picked between 1 and 6.
Nelson and Barkley will help to solve our problems running the ball, Chubb and Fitzpatrick will provide a much-needed upgrade on defense. Anyway: only one of those 4 will fall to us – so I don’t see any need to discuss whom over who.
January 26th, 2018 at 10:00 am
OrlandoJoe Says:
January 26th, 2018 at 9:44 am
Seriously Joe? Barkley over Chubb? I mean he’s a great player but there is a lot of talent at that position in later rounds.
My problem with Koetter isn’t that he decided to back up Martin and give him one more chance, it’s that he stuck with him so long after the season started. He should have moved on to Barber way earlier in the season.
^^BINGO^^
barkley over chubb is crazy talk….we have enough #weaponsforwinston….we need to add weapons to the defense or oline(since we have no talent on either, so they say)….
barber played well when he got a chance…..and he’s hungry….continue to develop the kid…he’s a good nfl quality back….barber and sony Michel or barber and derrius guice would be a great back field…..GO BUCS!!!!
January 26th, 2018 at 10:00 am
It’s on Koetter and Licht…
Licht ignored the position until late in the draft…
He had a shot in round 2 to address the run game..instead he chose a safety….
If he had made that pick in round 2 a RB, they would have played the rookie at RB instead of forcing Drug Martin down everyone’s throat.
House cleaning coming next year!
January 26th, 2018 at 10:02 am
Next year we will see, if the Bucs in fact selected the wrong back or if they handled a back incorrectly. Popular to trash on McNichols now but time will tell. San Fran had a great 1-2 with Hyde (940 yds) and Brieda (465 yds). They had already drafted Joe Williams a total wild card but looked good prior to his ankle injury. With this fleet they saw enough of McNichols to put on the PS and was on the active roster at the end of the season. If he somehow makes the roster next year, the Bucs will have to really look in the mirror. Benching the kid, after two plays in the third preseason game by Koetter to “feature” Hansbrough was an out and out mistake. Watching the last preseason game, there was definitely enough to warrant a roster spot until Doug Martin returned, then he could’ve been more easily stashed on the PS. Instead we wasted a roster spot on Jaq Smith who should’ve been placed on the PUP list coming out of camp. Even if McNichols was not the back, pick up a guy on another practice squad, Alex Collins was my pick, this isn’t looking back, this was a recommendation immediately after the cut list (TBF, I’m an Arkansas guy so I’ve watched him closely and felt Seattle was miscasting him). Wasting the roster spot with Jaq Smith vs using the PUP was very poor.
There were things in McNichol’s personality that I didn’t like (the laissez faire attitude first and foremost) , but those things showed up in his pre-draft interviews too. He admitted it took him “a while” to learn the BSU playbook.
Koetter showed me plenty by sticking with Martin over Barber late in the year that he has an interesting perspective for talent evaluation on the running back spot.
January 26th, 2018 at 10:03 am
There is a common thread running through the Doug Martin and Snoop Dog McWeapon and Koetter stories.
Can you say Boise State? I am not suggesting that Koetter placed his career on the line out of loyalty to BSU but I do suspect it might have been a factor. Why else did he stick with Martin?
BTW too bad we got the wrong BSU back….in Snoop…Ajayi has certainly performed in the league.
January 26th, 2018 at 10:11 am
813boi
Barkely over Chubb any day. This is not even a debate.
Yes dm is a primary reason we are 5-11
January 26th, 2018 at 10:14 am
StPeteBucsFan Says:
January 26th, 2018 at 10:03 am
There is a common thread running through the Doug Martin and Snoop Dog McWeapon and Koetter stories.
Can you say Boise State? I am not suggesting that Koetter placed his career on the line out of loyalty to BSU but I do suspect it might have been a factor. Why else did he stick with Martin?
I can but that…..but whoevers scouting LSU needs a raise….I hope licht listens to whoever that person is because we’ve done very well with LSU players….I know they have a couple oline and dline prospects coming out that we could use…..not to mention d.guice…..GO BUCS!!!!
January 26th, 2018 at 10:17 am
Why did dirk stick with dougie sooo long? Barber was better, coulda had ajay for a 4th rounder and shame on Jason for not going into the season with one more option at rb. The stupid kicker pick comes back to haunt us. The run game could of salted away a few more wins and would of made the d better because it woulda kept them off the field. Dougie showed nothing in preseason so why keep him?
January 26th, 2018 at 10:24 am
Dougie showed he had more jump than any back in preseason. NFL.com made a featured him in a highlight package week 2 versus the Jaguars.
January 26th, 2018 at 10:27 am
Sorry… Nfl.com made a highlight package that featured him..
January 26th, 2018 at 10:28 am
lamarcus
the RB position so deep in this draft…..you got players like guice…Michel…chubb…penny…r.jones all with talent that would be an upgrade over martin…..
DE not so much….I would pick nelson over barkely killing 2 birds with one stone….protecting the franchise and creating holes in the run game…..
I thought the main reason why we went 5-11 was because we couldn’t get pressure on the QB….QB’s had all day to sick back and pick us apart…..no pass rush…..
GO BUCS!!!!
January 26th, 2018 at 10:35 am
so why did we go 5-11?
a.) no talent
b.) poor coaching
c.) no pass rush
d.) no run game
e.) SOS
f.) injuries
g.) all of the above
I really would like to know because there’s a new reason for why we went 5-11 everyday…..GO BUCS!!!!
January 26th, 2018 at 10:39 am
Dirk sucked as a head coach and pro personnel was right there with him. They should have showed Chucky the money and they’d be moving forward. The Bucs have too many holes to fill in the draft. Always trying to get off cheap. No more wasted money on season tickets for me.
January 26th, 2018 at 10:40 am
Gotta get a stud upper echelon rb over dline. Rbs like that keeps ur Defense OFF the field. Koetter loves ball control and his entire playbook doesn’t work with control the clock on the ground.
After Rb. Get ur lineman. I would draft a guard top 10. Only Nelson tho
January 26th, 2018 at 10:42 am
While I don’t see it likely that both Chubb and Barkley are on the board at 7, I will endulge the scenario. The right move would be to select Chubb and get a quality contributor in a subsequent round (like 2 or 3). Its much easier to get a starting caliber rb in those rounds that a pass rusher.
January 26th, 2018 at 10:43 am
Joe is the reason we went 5-1…..here is the logic.
Because Joe lost all credibility on Johnny Football….the Buc brass failed to listen to him when he repeatedly trashed Doug Martin….
Joe needed to leave out the Martin disclaimer “but he’s a nice guy”…..and go for the jugular.
If Joe had succeeded, we would have drafted a RB higher….perhaps Kamara.
Now that Joe’s credibility is back in tact…..oh wait…..his constant calls for accountability are falling on deaf ears!!!
January 26th, 2018 at 10:43 am
We went 5-11 because that’s what the Bucs do. We are never winners. Our franchise win percentage is historically the lowest 38.9 so yeah if we expect anything more than losses might as well choose anyother team to root for.
Being a Bucs fan and wanting to win is like a u marrying a smoker then want them to quit not happening
January 26th, 2018 at 10:43 am
Sarcasm
January 26th, 2018 at 10:51 am
Barkley will not slip past 4. His SPARQ scores are gonna be crazy. Not training for the combine, (just normal training) he puts up 30 reps on the bench, which it looked like he had a couple more in him, and a 4.33 hand timed on video. He could run a time that looks frightens Chris Johnson and pushes for the all time bench press record.
BTW… did some digging on my rb, FA of choice. Jarrick McKinnon, Vikings,… At Georgia Southern, he spilt time at QB throughout his career. But if you want some fun go watch his combine highlights. Thumbnail look.. 5’9″, 209 pounds, 4.37 40, 40.5″ vertical, 11″ broad and 32 reps on the bench. He backed up AP and split carries with Murray and Cook and still has really good film. He looks ready to explode. No reason not to make a serious push to sign him. Then we could use our first four picks this year on DE, DT, CB and Guard or Center, depending on the BPA at said need fell to the spot.
January 26th, 2018 at 11:00 am
lamarcus
I guess we can agree to disagree…im taking a big boy first…chubb or nelson…I wouldn’t throw a fit if we took barkely…he is a need…very talented…versatile….good character….
I just think the problem on offense were more related to play calling and pressure up the middle….sweezy was a liability imo….
but it is what it is….this regime cant screw up this year in the draft or FA….that’s non debatable…..GO BUCS!!!!
January 26th, 2018 at 11:06 am
The bucs are talented at RB. Quizz is a stud. Barber has chops. Martin has it somewhere in him. The problem is… we never had a shot because we are a weak institution. the team crumbled at first sign of adversity (loss of bye week). They disappeared after a few injuries. three and outs led to defense getting pounded, led to no run game. the talent is on the field.
Remember the season before when we handed the ball off like 43 times straight to quizz? to take the ball out of Mr. PickThrower’s hands? at least there’s a statement there. what happened to that? Did coaching lose ownership’s backing to do what was best for the team?
GO BUCS!!!
January 26th, 2018 at 11:12 am
There’s a lot of reasons for going 5-11. Football is a complicated sport with a ton of variables.
I don’t think Joe is making an excuse. He trashed Koetter for sticking with Martin. That’s on coaching more so than talent. We obviously had an upgrade just sitting on the f*cking bench all year until late.
Lack of pass rush / lack of an ability to close on defense cost us literally 3-4+ games last year so I’d say that’s the #1 reason. The inability to hold a lead for the win or make simple kicks; was the difference in 5-11 vs like 9-7 or better even if the defense still sucked every other possession as they did in 2017. Check the game logs if you don’t believe it. Winston was robbed of 3 game winning drives easy by the defense giving up the late go-ahead score instead of holding the lead; and another due to Folk melting down vs the Pats.
Of course there were a ton of other issues – but not closing games on defense is the easiest and most obvious answer in terms of looking back on what could have been. Regardless – we still got completely blown out a few times and you can’t count on winning all of your close games.
January 26th, 2018 at 11:13 am
I think it’s foolish to take a RB in the first round. They’re available in later rounds, even the best reach free agency, and they’re only around for (at most) 5 years.
Rarely does a good OLineman reach FA, and a good defensive end NEVER does!..
If you have Chubb on the table, you’d still take Barkley?!??? Joe, put down your cocktail, it ain’t 5 o’clock yet!
January 26th, 2018 at 11:15 am
Kinda pathetic Joe kinda pathetic. Barber was better so who’s fault is it Martin kept starting?
The bucs are animals between the 20’s but can’t score, who’s to blame for redzone scoring? I know you like to blame everyone except the guy who you wanted to return to coach this team again but stop just stop
January 26th, 2018 at 11:19 am
Sorry buc fans. Full of plenty of excuses. Its not the coaches aye? How come there are several NFL teams with many less heralded players than us doing better than us? HUH?!!!! How come our coaches cannot make in game adjustments? How come they make dumb game decisions? How come our Defnse plays soft?
How..come? Just keep ridin with Koetter and his road dog Smitty. They are gonna ride YOU..further into Buc Hell!!
January 26th, 2018 at 11:34 am
Dirk kept going to the wrong rb. Defense blew. Pretty obvious the coaching staff pearl harbored the team. Same staff who cares more than any of the fans
January 26th, 2018 at 11:46 am
“Not there yet Says:
January 26th, 2018 at 11:15 am
Kinda pathetic Joe kinda pathetic. Barber was better so who’s fault is it Martin kept starting?”
Do you guys even read the articles before you start talking sh1t and insulting the guy who runs the website? It’s just odd…
This is what Joe said:
“For reasons not quite clear, Dirk Koetter banked on Doug Martin to be the 2015 Doug Martin. It blew up in his face.”
Joe is calling Koetter out for this. He has since beginning of last year. He never agreed with keeping Martin. Reading comprehension.
January 26th, 2018 at 11:58 am
Lord Cornelius
Did someone read that post for you then have to leave so you weren’t able to get the rest of what I said? Don’t call me out after reading half my post. The world knows how much the Joe’s hate Martin play on the field so STFU
Did RBs Kill Bucs’ 2017 Season?
In my humble opinion to even ask this question is what I felt was pathetic. Are you working for the Joe’s or should you be in school? They know how to defend themselves something else pathetic is putting a picture of Martin up when talking about the backs lol.
Of all things to be called out for. Didn’t realize I needed to explain cornhole nelius
January 26th, 2018 at 11:59 am
So, in short, it’s Doug Martin’s fault for our 5-11 season.
Not coaching
Not play-calling
Not bad o-line play
Not costly turnovers
Not bad defense
Yep, it’s Doug’s fault! Barber would’ve been a 1,000 yard rusher, I’m sure!!! (sarcasm!)
January 26th, 2018 at 12:04 pm
Blame these people in this order for this pathetic season
1.Owners
2.GM
3.Head Coach
4.Coordinators
5.Assistant Coaches
6.Players
January 26th, 2018 at 12:30 pm
The main reason the defense sucked was because it spent the majority of each game on the field. Without a run game, we had more third and long plays, which shortened the offense’s time on the field. If we were able to have a regular 4+ yards per carry at running back, 3rd downs would be easy to convert, and the passing game would be wide open. The defense would be rested, and they would be energized because the offense would have moved the ball successfully and we would have more points on the board.
You can’t coach up a gassed defense.
January 26th, 2018 at 12:38 pm
THE COACHES KILLED THE RUN GAME:
– KOETTER’S AWFUL CONSTANT SINGLE BACK SET WITH ONE OR NO RECEIVERS ON THE OUTSIDE, TRYING TO RUN DOUG MARTIN EVERY TIME UP THE MIDDLE. EVERY DEFENSE KNEW EVERY TIME WHAT WAS COMING AND IT WAS STUFFED EVERY TIME.
– EVEN THOUGH DOUG MARTIN WAS PLAYING LIKE SH!T ALL YEAR AND PEYTON BARBER BEGAN IMPROVING EVERY GAME, KOETTER AND HIS CREW LET MARTIN START TILL WEEK 12.
January 26th, 2018 at 12:40 pm
Well said team Joe
January 26th, 2018 at 12:52 pm
@Not there yet.
I read your whole post. You came off like a jerk with nothing valuable to add and your conclusion that Joe is blaming everyone but Koetter for the 5-11 record is not supported by anything in this article. Again – reading comprehension.
It’s hilarious to say “in my humble opinion” in the same sentence as trashing an article as “pathetic.” How humble of you.
It’s natural to re-examine the season and look at all the things that went wrong. He’s been posting various articles about various reasons the season went bad. Not sure why the h3ll that would be so upsetting to someone lol.
January 26th, 2018 at 12:54 pm
your suggested conclusion* I should have said. Technically you were mostly suggesting that Dirk’s to blame for red zone scoring and that Joe keeps making excuses for him. Either way same idea.
January 26th, 2018 at 1:03 pm
“Yep, it’s Doug’s fault! Barber would’ve been a 1,000 yard rusher, I’m sure!!! (sarcasm!)”
Honestly yes I think he would have. I’ve said this before – not starting Barber all year was the biggest f*ck up with no explanation by Koetter. Just insanely dumb and the biggest indictment on him being a sh1t coach last year.
Anyway – the reason Barber would have rushed for over 1000 if starting all year:
Over the last 5 games when Barber was getting most the carries; he had 78 carries for 335 yards (4.3 YPC). That was with a lot of the O-line hurt; and that projects to 250 carries for 1,072 yards. That’s with only 15.6 carriers per game on average. He also did his best when given a large volume as he’d tend to break a big run every 5 runs or so. So realistically giving him 18 carries a game should have easily resulted in 1200+ yard season unless he got hurt.
January 26th, 2018 at 1:10 pm
I have to disagree LC. And, I’m not saying that he wouldn’t have been better than Doug. I’m just saying that for the vast majority of the season, our o-line play was atrocious in the run-game. Those 5 games you speak of were with o-line back-ups. So I have to wonder if we were still in a learning curve with the o-line switch.
Personally, like most here, I would have liked to see more of him earlier on. I just don’t know if he would’ve eclipsed 1,000 with the same blocking earlier in the season.
January 26th, 2018 at 1:52 pm
Altered…Koetter and Licht were willing to pay a guy without the talent anymore, DM, premier QB money instead of looking outside the organization. You talk about talent, but it comes back to the organization. A good organization recognizes and signs talent in line with their expectations, develops that talent, and therefore the team is talented, or the organization that overestimates player talent or fails to develop players with talent that play far below their talent level due to poor coaching and signs players for more money than their talent warrants and the team is untalented. If we lack talent, it is because of a poor organization. And on what basis do you believe that will suddenly change?
January 26th, 2018 at 2:49 pm
@Bucsfanman
So you think the backups did better run blocking than the starters?
That’s possible actually – although I think the pass blocking fell off by a lot with that group.
I didn’t think the run blocking was that bad early in the year though honestly. Not in a way that lines up with a 2.9 pathetic YPC that Martin had.
Barber averaged 4.7 YPC in week 1 for example. In general he averaged 4+ YPC anytime he was given 10 or more carries; except for the game in New Orleans (3.1 YPC).
January 26th, 2018 at 3:04 pm
It’s just a hypothesis because you’re exactly right, pass-blocking fell off big time. It’s not to take anything away from Barber. If you know me, you know I’m an “old school” football fan. I love physical football teams that run right at you. Barber’s style fits that mold and I like what he brings.
I just saw too many predictable plays where a defender was wrapped around the ball carriers ankles before the LOS. No running back is going to flourish in that scenario.
January 26th, 2018 at 3:55 pm
If Martin had it “somewhere,” don’t you think he would have pulled it out of mothballs at some point in the past two years?
You know, like maybe once? If for no other reason than be known as the worst running back in the NFL?
January 26th, 2018 at 3:57 pm
Naturally Joe would take the RB if given the option of choosing between a blue chip pass rusher or a devalued position that commonly can be found in the middle rounds of the draft.
Because GM Joe is the best, and makes the best trade offers, of course after Dominik, but maybe a shade above Aguayo-loving Licht.
BTW how’s that great Dominik move off trading a first and fourth round pick for Darelle Revis going? How’s Revis doing nowadays Joe? Much better and worthwhile use of cap space than the Jets got out of the pick with Sheldon Richardson right? LOL
January 26th, 2018 at 4:14 pm
Just do a quick research of NFL history — oh, say the last 20 years — and tell Joe which rookie has a better chance of making an immediate impact on an NFL team, a rookie running back or a rookie defensive end.
(Hint: It ain’t DE.)
January 26th, 2018 at 5:31 pm
Martin was a disappointment- but coaching staff and Licht were all on board.
There are other factors for bad season-
Injuries to Kwon and Spence early
Guards were not effective run blockers
Marpet at center experiment failed
No kicker 1st half of season
Maybe Hargreaves was used to playing with a DL that pressured the qb? Maybe
he was coached to play soft coverage because DL sucked?
Jameis had key turnovers in a couple games
Baker was disappointing
They sucked as a team – build up offensive and defensive lines through the draft
January 26th, 2018 at 7:01 pm
Someone said Martin still has IT. 😂😂😂. Omg. That’s actually funny
January 26th, 2018 at 10:03 pm
I don’t care anymore. Because today at this hour this was the problem. Next hour it will be something or somebody else. Tomorrow right back to the same thing as today. Same comments too. It was everything and everyone you can think of or name! But remember it was the no pass rush and sorry defense. But carry on. Keep beating the dead horse. Draft day and Free Agency can’t get here soon enough.
January 27th, 2018 at 1:32 pm
RB is rarely THE problem.
It’s almost always the symptom.
Fix the trenches, fix the Bucs!!
January 27th, 2018 at 3:02 pm
If that is the case why did an undrafted free agent (Peyton Barber) run so much better than Doug Martin behind a beat up line?
Or are you suggesting the offensive line laid down for Doug Martin?
January 28th, 2018 at 2:13 pm
Joe, that is easy, Koetter finally changed up his game planning and play calling. They brought up Alan Cross (of course not because they wanted to, but because they had to) and used him as a lead FB and lead H-back. Oh and marpet at Center proved to be a disaster and when Hawley came in, the run game improved. Pass blocking suffered a little, but run game was better.