On His Way
January 21st, 2018
Eye-opening data.
This ought to calm down the Jameis haters. Then again, Joe knows better.
A loud sect of Bucs fans wants America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, run out of town. They believe he has regressed, blindly ignoring that Jameis had a bum shoulder for much of this year. Depending who you talk to, there are more than a couple of soft whispers floating out there that Jameis was first dinged when the Bucs were curb-stomped by the Vikings in the second game.
Nah, a quarterback who has a bum throwing shoulder, that can’t gum up the works, can it? You know, like a baseball pitcher with a busted throwing shoulder?
At any rate, an avid reader of Joe’s by the handle of @Jameis1of1 sent along these stats that measure Jameis’ success compared to other top quarterbacks in the NFL in their first three seasons.
All you need to know is after looking at these numbers, if you are still of the mind the Bucs need to release Jameis, you very likely will have quite a few depressed and angry years ahead of you.
January 21st, 2018 at 1:06 pm
Boom.
January 21st, 2018 at 1:14 pm
I have said it before even if Jameis does not get better (but I have no doubt he will) he is on pace to hold every passing record in the league. That it a fact regardless if people like it or not. The scary thing is he can, and probably will, get so much better. The people on this board who don’t like never have and never will it just is what it is. I am starting to just accept it for what it is and realize they either don’t know football or just have something against him.
January 21st, 2018 at 1:16 pm
Mark my words if they somehow acquire a competent RB then you’ll see Winston prosper. I think he’s ready to make the leap.
January 21st, 2018 at 1:24 pm
no doubt he can throw the ball. I have been extremely impressed with the strength and accuracy of his mid-range throws. I don’t think there is a QB in the league who has more of a laser pinpoint dart than Jameis. Every game I’m impressed with some of the throws. He is the best QB Tampa has ever had period…………………BUT WITH THAT BEING SAID… He has his flaws. He does fumble and his deep throw accuracy needs work. He will improve. The whole eating W’s thing, and poking Lattimore thing was meant with a good heart but he will need to mature, hopefully he learned wisely. Not everyone grows mentally and physically the same. Some other QBs in this league are doing things that Jameis isn’t but I really believe in the long run he will be a staple for us. I pretty much already is. I saw Jameis play live this year for the first time. The Bucs lost but I left the game with a smile knowing this guy is the real deal. BUILD THE TEAM AROUND HIM. Fix parts of the defense, OL, and running game and this guy will have a great career.
January 21st, 2018 at 1:28 pm
To add to the above comment………I can say that in the last 3 years i have tuned into the bucs games excited to see what this guy is going to do. I love watching this guy play. Of course I want to throw a shoe at the TV when he throws an INT or fumbles. He does do enough to make me think that he will be a stud in this league. There is always the chance he goes the way of Vince Young, Griffen, Manzel, Ponder……….but I think his skill set, attitude, and intelligence is above those guys. I would love to see this guy with a solid team and good coaching………………….kind of like his days at FSU.
January 21st, 2018 at 1:30 pm
Imagine if Jameis has the Titans talent to work with. Henry, Murray, and that nice o-line… Jameis would be elite.
But I trust that Licht can find a way to make it work… “See the Licht”
January 21st, 2018 at 1:46 pm
And how many playoff appearances did most of those BUMS have?
January 21st, 2018 at 1:52 pm
@Joe … “They believe he has regressed, blindly ignoring that Jameis had a bum shoulder for much of this year.” Still remember when Jameis got body-slammed in that Vikings game; he was obviously hurt. A number of us said that he shouldn’t be playing the following week(s), but instead he kept it up for several weeks until finally Koetter HAD to sit him down. All I remember hearing was that the team doctors had cleared him to play so he must be OK. Until he wasn’t. So why is ‘the bum shoulder’ now being used as an excuse? According to the Bucs’ team doctors, Jameis was OK to play. Can’t be BOTH ways … the shoulder was either screwed up (and he shouldn’t have been playing) OR the shoulder was OK (and and folks shouldn’t be using it as an excuse for some of his ‘issues’ this past year).
January 21st, 2018 at 1:53 pm
I like Jameis, always have, but it seems Joebucfan’s bias gives way more kudos and excuses for Jameis who has not distanced himself from Joebucfan’s most hated QB Josh Freeman. Regardless of mediocre play from his surrounding cast it was always Freeman’s fault but with Winston it appears Joebucfan have invested and staked their collective reputation on him where he would literally need to be a less than average NFL QB before any sincere criticism.
Totally inaccurate. First, Joe wrote this (linked here) in January titled “Very Average Jameis” https://www.joebucsfan.com/2018/01/very-average-jameis/
And Joe has written and said countless times that Jameis is the worst QB in the division and very few teams in the NFC would trade their QB for him. Why make stuff up? –Joe
I like Jameis, always have but their have been a few QB’s drafted after him who are playing better football right now. He has got to improve.
January 21st, 2018 at 2:01 pm
I’ve argued for an infrastructure upgrade. I was primarily talking about scouting, analytics and related stuff, but maybe we need to upgrade the medical staff too. Missing the issues with Sweezy alone is reason enough.
January 21st, 2018 at 2:08 pm
The age thing again?
All this chart says it that Winston started playing in the NFL at an earlier age than most every QB in the league – and also started from day 1 which a # of those listed didn’t.
Winston’s stats are very impressive under any level of scrutiny – so why go so far to cherry pick?
January 21st, 2018 at 2:12 pm
Here come the yards don’t matter only points as if jameis should be responsible for all 11 guys
January 21st, 2018 at 2:13 pm
Bucs (Dirk Koetter’s) offense in the red zone has been awful resulting in lesser points. If Jameis had a run game it would be a whole different story in the red zone and Jameis all around play. I believe Peyton Barber is only going to get better and that we don’t need a RB in the early rounds of this draft. I would like to take a shot at the later rounds (fifth) and UDFA. Quenton Nelson dominate run blocking in the first this year and a top tier RB within the next couple years if not this year.
January 21st, 2018 at 2:16 pm
Just another useless stat that means nothing at all except that he was on a bad team always throwing to play catch up and getting garbage time yards against prevent defenses or defenses playing loose.
IF Jameis can come up with these numbers when the Bucs are 12-4 then we actually have something to talk about
January 21st, 2018 at 2:17 pm
You don’t need a great Qn in this NFl. 3 of the remaining teams in this yrs playoffs proves this. And Brady was far from a 1st rd pick. But you do need a very good DEFENSE now Don’t you? To hell with the greatness of Sir Jameis. Give me a slightly above average QB and a Great Defense anyday. Jameis and our offense did not lose 5 to 6 close games. Our Defense did!!
January 21st, 2018 at 2:18 pm
To be fair only Peyton Manning and Big Ben on that listed started day one. Still Impressive #s though. Too bad he missed 3 1/2 games or it would be over 12k yards
January 21st, 2018 at 2:18 pm
Age is a totally meaningless metric! How about using years in the league?
Are we suggesting because Aaron Rodgers had to sit so long behind Favre that he’s not as good as #3. Rodgers went to two years of junior colleges and then played two years at Cal. He did not come out early like #3.
Rodgers was 25 years old before the Pack dumped Favre and made Rodgers the official starter. How the hell was Rodgers supposed to measure stats with #3 at 23 years of age when he didn’t even get to really play until he was 25?
If you compare Rodgers first three years of starting he completed 12,394 yards to #3’s 11,636.
What’s age got to do with it? Show me the real results!!! Which btw still make #3 look very good. There is no need to offer bogus comparisons when the real ones are good enough.
#3 is very good…gotta long way to go to reach Aaron Rodgers…let’s start with some MVP’s and a SB.
Warren Moon was 28 by the time he got to the NFL from the CFL. Remember the days when the whitebread coaches and GM’s swore to us that blacks can’t play QB? So Moon gets blown away by #3 in any AGE comparisons. Moon threw for a whisker under 50,000 yards in his long illustrious NFL career. Let’s just hope #3 reaches that milestone for the Bucs.
I write this not to trash #3 I’m a big fan. I’m not even suggesting that with improvement he won’t one day be as good as Rodgers or Moon. Just pointing the fact that he did this at 23 is because he came out very early.
BTW Nole fans…Rodgers was desperate to play for FSU and Bobby Bowden.
He wasn’t good enough!!! LOL
January 21st, 2018 at 2:22 pm
TonyC I do think a rb will obviously help but I think the biggest thing he needs to calm.him down and like Desean said make.him feel like he doesn’t need to save the day is fixing the defense.
FIX THE DEFENSE AND THIS IS A PLAYOFF TEAM!!
January 21st, 2018 at 2:24 pm
Also if we didn’t have to settle for FGs in the Red Zone 51% of the time we would have won a few more games. Jax, Philly, NE, and NO were in the top 5 in Red Zone efficiency. All four were playing in Jan. and Three are playing today!!!
Jameis still has some growing to do.
January 21st, 2018 at 2:30 pm
I’m a huge Jameis believer but this is a flawed argument akin to the guy who got to the party 5 hours before me bragging he’s had more beers thirty minutes after I arrive.
My advice: Stop pandering to the Jameis haters. He’s the QB next year. Period. Debating whether or not he should be is absolutely pointless and a complete waste of time.
He just turned 24. That’s huge that he’s already gotten this much experience. He has elite potential. Next year will be a defining one for him.
But just look around the league… it takes so much more than just the QB to win. Brees, Big Ben, and Ryan went home last week wholes Foles, Keemun, and Bortles advances.
Look at the career of those three prior to now. Only a complete lack of brain cells would allow someone to think Jameis as he is right now couldn’t take those other teams just as far. And he’s 24 and YEARS away from his peak prime.
The Bucs need to build the team the right way now. It’s about protection and time on offense and disruption on defense. The trenches. Fix the trenches and Jameis will thrive.
Fix the trenches, fix the Bucs.
January 21st, 2018 at 2:32 pm
I understand you like these “STATS” Joe but I would much rather see how Jameis compares his first 3 FULL seasons compared to 3 FULL season of Rodgers and Brady.everyone knows Brady didn’t start ASAP along with Rodgers.both sat on the bench for awhile so how can you compare Jameis to them when he’s played since day one of his NFL career.i have nothing against Jameis.I would not have anyone else BUT Jameis as my quarterback.
#JAMEIS IS MY QB
January 21st, 2018 at 2:55 pm
Honestly we can all praise or condemn Jameis but the truth is he is sadly the best QB we’ve ever had by far, unfortunately for the foreseeable future the worst QB in our division, 5 years from now we will hopefully have the best QB HOPEFULLY
January 21st, 2018 at 2:58 pm
Jameis will improve and could be elite with a little help.
Running Game
A couple of stronger Olinemen
A defense that gets him the ball and helps him keep a lead
A OC that helps him with playcalling… More 1st down play action…..passes called on 2nd, 3rd & short. More passes in the red zone.
I believe he has the receivers set for some time to come.
January 21st, 2018 at 3:01 pm
Lameis needs to grow up though, his antics this year are similar to his last year in college Uber, eating his fingers speech, and both blowup games NO n Carolina, that’s only talking about his character, his play is kinda the same way, marvelous sometimes and scary bad, he is extremely both sides of the spectrum
January 21st, 2018 at 3:02 pm
I love stats, but these stats are fairly meaningless since it has to do with opportunity. It’s interesting what Jameis has done at such a young age, but you could also bring up people like Josh Freeman, I do believe he too at the same age as Winston would have had better stats than all these HOF’ers combined.
I’m a huge believer in Jameis and I know how good he is, but I’m not a fan at all of these types of stats because you can cherry pick anything to mean anything. Simple X stats at Y number of games played, then looking at defenses that players faced and then figuring out how the averages have changed (for example passing yards are up X amount since Y year), blah blah blah – that stuff is interesting. This is not.
January 21st, 2018 at 3:09 pm
@El_Buc941 – I thought the same thing, so I looked it up.
Here are their stats for their first 3 seasons as starting quarterbacks, per ESPN (I included the total numbers of games played as well, since – of this group – only Manning played in all 48):
P. Manning (48 games): 12287 | 85
T. Brady (47 games): 10227 | 69
A. Rodgers (47 games): 12394 | 86
D. Brees (42 games): 8551 | 55
J. Winston (45 games): 11636 | 69
For a more correlative comparison, on a per-games-played basis the numbers break down like:
P. Manning 255.98 | 1.77
T. Brady 217.60 | 1.47
A. Rodgers 263.70 | 1.83
D. Brees 203.6 | 1.31
J. Winston 258.58 | 1.53
Jameis compares fairly well to the others in this group (2nd in yards per game, 3rd in TDs per game), and when you consider that Rodgers – who is first in each category – had some developmental years before becoming a full-time starter, I’d say Jameis’s numbers look fine without having to contrive
strange and irrelevant stats like.
January 21st, 2018 at 3:19 pm
Yay
More irrelevant numbers concerning Jameis.
Try these
3-9
1- groped uberdriver
Dozens- bad decisions
Im glad some people are happy with stats.
Good QBs win football games
And jameis lost 3 times more than he won
But keep those stats coming
January 21st, 2018 at 3:46 pm
Tony from LA says:
“Fix the trenches and Jameis will thrive.”
True That!
January 21st, 2018 at 3:49 pm
I went down to my mom’s basement and did a little stat research myself. Palm Harbor’s QB is 18-27 as a starter. Joe, feel free to use that stat in your articles, but please give me credit where credit is due.
January 21st, 2018 at 4:04 pm
Blake Bortles…America’s QB on Florida’s team.
January 21st, 2018 at 4:36 pm
All I want from 3 is to make the adjustments he keeps talking about. He continues to take blame which is admirable, but he needs to implement the changes. His talk is wearing thin. And, FYI, I don’t want him run. I want him coached.
January 21st, 2018 at 5:37 pm
Stats are for losers.
Not hating on Jameis but I don’t give a f**k about your stats.
Lead a team and win some f**king games.
January 21st, 2018 at 5:40 pm
Damn I’m so tired if the look at these stats crowd, most clueless football fans on the planet but ok let’s get into it
Besides the fact that these guys are extremely old so it was a different league with different rules when they were in their 3rd seasons but ok you know what all those guys have that Winston doesn’t have that makes them sure fire hall of famers? It’s wins. Winston is doing nothing but eating L’s while racking up huge numbers. Passing yards and touchdowns won’t get him in the same class as those quarterbacks because only joebucsfans seems to be the only people on the planet identifying Winston as America’s quarterback. No one likes losers and yes we have Winston but we are no less a laughing stock than before he got here
I wouldn’t care if he had Tim tebow like numbers if we were getting into the playoffs, stat geeks….. Always forgetting the stats that count. Love Winston and he’ll be the first QB to ever get a second contact lol how pathetic is that but I don’t think he’ll reach upper echelon as long as dirkhead is the head coach
January 21st, 2018 at 5:59 pm
Here a more direct comp between Rodgers and Winston. Although still not a direct comp as Rodgers was older and more mature than Winston which is a major factor when it comes to decision making. I would also argue that the Packers team that Rodgers inherited was a better team than our Bucs.
Rodgers
47 games
12394 yards 263.7 per game
66.56%
86 TDs 1.82 per game
31 INTs 0.65 per game
8 fumbles 0.18 per game
115 sacks 2.44 per game
Winston
45 games
11,636 yards 258.5 per game
60.8%
69 TDs 1.53 per game
44 INTs 0.97 per game
11 fumbles 0.24 per game
95 sacks 2.17 per game
January 21st, 2018 at 6:09 pm
USF… the Packers were a better team than the current Bucs team when Rodgers came in or has been the last few years. Jameis needs better coaching… but he is good enough to get the job done. Anyone singling him out as a large factor of the current problem is off base.
January 21st, 2018 at 6:11 pm
Brady
47 games
217.59 yards per game
62.06%
1.46 TDs per game
0.80 INTs per game
0.27 fumbles per game
2.21 sacks per game
January 21st, 2018 at 6:14 pm
There is a comp to Brady over his first three seasons of starting too. No matter how you slice the stats Winston comps with the best QBs in the NFL right now. If somebody else wants to go comp that stats of the Packers and Pats over those years to see if they had the worst defense in the NFL dragging them down win wise you are welcome to do it but my guess is that their defenses were much better than ours
January 21st, 2018 at 6:35 pm
New material needed. I.e something other than on your knees jaw love
January 21st, 2018 at 6:36 pm
I know alot of folks think that the stats are an excuse for JW, but I think he is the right QB for this team. With that said, we need the defense to be at least average if this team expects to win. Also the offensive play calling needs to improve as well.
January 21st, 2018 at 6:45 pm
***************
USFBUC,
You’d argue the team Aaron Rodgers inherited was better than the team Jameis inherited? Um, YEAH, I’d say so since the year before Rodgers took over as the starter the Packers went 13-3 … 13-3! Rodgers took over and they went 6-10 … he subtracted 7 wins from the team his first year as starter!
Jameis on the other hand took over a 2-14 team … 2-14 and then TRIPLED their win total … as a 21 YEAR OLD!
Jameis’ career stats barring injury will obliterate Aaron Rodgers’ when all is said and done … and it won’t even be close.
***************
January 21st, 2018 at 6:47 pm
Notthereryet …. you’re wrong … go look up Fran Tarketon and Bob Griese’s AGE when they started their first game … guys who were good enough to play at 21 played in the NFL at 21 … they did a long, long time ago and Jameis did it recently … don’t be a hater
January 21st, 2018 at 7:02 pm
I’m amazed at how the “joes” continue to suck jw3,s d***. Idc what that chart says, I know what my eyes saw. Dude is a f***** turnover machine. He’s not a smart qb. Has alota good too and I haven’t given up on him but let’s call it like it is.oh and wipe ur mouth Joe, got a lil something on there
January 21st, 2018 at 7:04 pm
^ Peyton Manning was MORE of a turnover machine through his first 5 seasons … don’t be a crude idiot.
January 21st, 2018 at 7:17 pm
This is what you do when the QB you select doesnt lead you to victories like advertised. This is what you do when “your guy” doesnt pass the eye test. This is what you do when King innaccurate cant walk the talk, you talk about injuries when cleared by medical doctors, yeah only on the message boards can you find the best othopedic surgeons in the biz….smh.
I call them excuses!
January 21st, 2018 at 7:19 pm
Again all this shows is he left college before he finished his education, and it shows
January 21st, 2018 at 7:23 pm
Its like comparing the year to date income of a high scool drop out to a 23 yo student at the same age. Of course the dropout will have made more money in the laat five years because one was working and the other was in school. Throw this comparison in the trash where it belongs. Reach reach reach
January 21st, 2018 at 7:26 pm
He’s gonna be a stud, problem right now is, we suck.
January 21st, 2018 at 7:26 pm
Jameis has so much potential, never forget: 4th and 10 on the 5 yd line with 1min 30 something seconds left. Anyway he will likely be better unless he gets hurt and needs surgery that gets botched (andrew luck).
He would be better immediately if the “bonehead” interceptions and fumbles would just stop. The stupid behavior–antagonizing saints cb on the field, the head butting, eating w’s etc. mostly throwing into triple/quad coverage to evans, the fumbles(toss up ball to make a play while getting tackled)
anyway, hopefully he is not found guilty by the nfl of crotch grabbing–honestly I cannot imagine the gal who was the uber driver would continue to drive him around after the confrontation–she was at the drive in, why not just get out and go inside and caall the police, or uber? really seems unlikely it was real
January 21st, 2018 at 7:32 pm
TSYCE:
–wow, you must spend alot time thinking about Jameis and his d*** sounds like you a wishing for a mouthful
January 21st, 2018 at 7:43 pm
Eric, NO, it would be like comparing two Fortune 500 CEOS income from the age of 21-23 where one was a prodigy who got hired at 21 and the other hasn’t even been hired yet … Jameis was a true phenom and was good enough to be the #1 overall pick when he was 21 … and you want to penalize him because he didn’t sit on a sideline for years because he wasn’t good enough to play like Aaron Rodgers, or stayed in college because for 4 years where he couldn’t win a title (and then the team wins the title the very next year after you leave with Tee Martin as it’s QB) like Peyton Manning … don’t be a hater.
January 21st, 2018 at 8:21 pm
I love the senseless comments about eye tests and I don’t care what the stats say I know what my eyes see. Thank god the world is progressing past these caveman type of assessments
January 21st, 2018 at 9:40 pm
Anyone with any real football knowledge without the assistance of Google would know Aaron Ridgers sat on the bench because there was a hall of famer in his prime ahead of him on the depth chart. Kinds the same reason Brady sat behind Bledsoe before he was injured. You lost all credibility with that ignorant comment. You probably didnt even watch football then. How else coukd you say something so stupid. Shows you gather your info by asking Alexa or Siri, Hush up a go back to worshiping your god you sheep boy!
January 21st, 2018 at 9:47 pm
Hearing the crazy rhetoric here us eerily similar to Fox news and “America’s President” no matter what he does or says it’s never his fault, everyone else is to blame and he is the best ever. It’s ecactly the same on so many levels it’s scary. Perfect name is Football’s Donald Trump or Black Trump
Football for Fox and Friends!
January 21st, 2018 at 9:49 pm
Wow mentioning Trump and Jameis gets your comment moderated….no free speech allowed
Free speech? Joe is legally responsible for every word written here in the comments, not the commenters. You want free speech? Start your own website for 20 bucks or go stand on a street corner and shout. –Joe
January 21st, 2018 at 9:51 pm
Thanks for letting me know I got under your skin!
January 21st, 2018 at 10:24 pm
Eric <— Triggered. LOL!
January 22nd, 2018 at 6:11 am
I am not sure who is giving JBF legal advice but this site is protected by the first amendment. Joe you are not legally responsible for every word on the site and whoever told you that needs to talk to Mark Randazza to get educated.
January 22nd, 2018 at 8:33 am
Well…..I’m still waiting on him to take this team and win some real games.
January 22nd, 2018 at 9:39 am
[And trying to get around Joe’s filters to start an off topic flamewar can and will get you run. Careful. — Joe]
January 22nd, 2018 at 12:09 pm
Apparently JW has had a bum shoulder since the Combine..Our scouting dept sucks
January 22nd, 2018 at 1:37 pm
Eric,
Facts are facts … Rodgers when he was drafted wasn’t the Rodgers you see today … Favre had some rough times when Rodgers was sucking his thumb on the bench and he still didn’t play … and Brady … Brady SUCKED in college! I went to Michigan games and he SUCKED … he couldn’t beat out Brian Griese and then ever after he did start, he got benched for a baseball player (Drew Henson)!
Jameis at 19 was way better than Brady at 23 … there’s not even a comparison!