Mike Mayock Talks To Joe
January 16th, 2018
Tackling Justin Evans
Joe had a chance to chat with arguably the best, most knowledgeable NFL draft guy out there, the NFL Network’s Mike Mayock.
As usual, Mayock will broadcast the East-West Shrine Game Saturday on NFL Network and Joe talked with Mayock at one of the game’s practices this week. Joe is going to break the interview into five parts. The first three will offer Mayock’s thoughts about current Bucs players and the final two installments will be about two players Bucs fans should have on their radar with the Bucs picking at No. 7 in the April draft.
Today, Joe talks with Mayock about safety Justin Evans.
JoeBucsFan: Joe remembers last spring vividly how when the Bucs chose Justin Evans in the second round, you said, “He will hit you, and he will miss the tackle.” Evans seems to have improved his tackling.
Mike Mayock: College football is interesting. When I do linebackers and defensive backs, I right down “MT” for missed tackles. And it shows up over and over. And I think a lot of it is spread offenses in college football where [players] are more in space. And I think sometimes the fundamentals just aren’t – you are not tackling live very often in college except for gameday – and the NFL also. But you have to be, if you are going to play in the back end in the NFL, you have to be a consistent tackler. [Evans] isn’t afraid. He’s physical and he’s tough. I think it is just about fundamentals and consistency.
Joe: Now that is interesting. Joe always hears Pat Kirwan [of SiriusXM NFL Radio] harp about tackling and now you say there is a tackling issue in college. Seems like there is a cause-and-effect in the NFL.
Mayock: Yeah, I think there is. And if you look at the really good teams in the NFL, teams that win every year, New England to start with, I think they demand that their defensive backs tackle. I’m not sure every team is as consistent as that and to me, that is a big deal. I don’t care if you are a corner or a linebacker, you have to tackle.
January 16th, 2018 at 8:05 am
Can’t wait to watch the East West Game, to see some possible new Tampa Bay Bucs !
January 16th, 2018 at 8:10 am
I’ll never forget Mayock when they drafted Justin Evans: “This guy will be starting at Safety next to Ryan Smith.” 🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️ He’s a clown
January 16th, 2018 at 8:11 am
No more smallish defensive lineman who get pushed around by the opponent’s offensive line.
January 16th, 2018 at 8:51 am
Justin Evans appears to be a very good pick….we will wait to see 3 years from now when we will likely extend his contract…..I like his speed and he always seems to be around the ball….he looks fearless and is improving with his tackles.
January 16th, 2018 at 9:01 am
Justin Evans will be a Pro-Bowler barring any serious knee injuries.
Great pick Jason!
January 16th, 2018 at 9:01 am
Uh-oh Joe!!!! Looks like you broke character!!!!! How are the sheep supposed to buy into your wrong narrative of the defense did not improve anyone when you ask question like Justin Evans improved tackling!!!!!!!!!!!!! We better get back to suggestions like Head Coach Koetter was pounding the desk in the offseason to keep Doug martin even though he was the backup plan!!!!!! And you should make up more stories to prove that everyone else is holding JW3 back and that is the only reasons that the Bucs are not playing next Sunday!!!!!!!
Great get though Joe to interview Mayock!!!!!! Very much looking forward to the rest on the interview!!!!!!!!
January 16th, 2018 at 9:12 am
“I’ll never forget Mayock when they drafted Justin Evans: “This guy will be starting at Safety next to Ryan Smith.” 🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️ He’s a clown”
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Evans was a starter, as was Ryan Smith (unfortunately). Even if you take away Ryan Smith, he seems to have gotten in right with Evans. So what exactly is your problem?
January 16th, 2018 at 9:13 am
If you need an example of “tackling issue” look no further than the final play of the Saints-Vikings playoff game Sunday. The rookie safety put his head down and pulled in his arms to lay a hit on the Vikings receiver…..he missed, Vikings score and the Saints go home for the year.
I am not going to rip up Mayock. studying players in the draft is very difficult. I actually enjoy listening to him. It is impossible to watch every draftee and know all of their weaknesses. Their strengths are easy to evaluate, their weaknesses are not. The Human Being can learn from its mistakes, but weaknesses are not always overcome.
For me, Mayock is only one person who I add to a myriad of other talent evaluators’ opinions. If you truly study the draft process, you will see certain draftniks and scouts have trends. One of Mayock’s biggest “tells” is when he doesn’t talk. The other thing is that Mayock is pushed to talk about the top end draftees. But what Mayock and all scouts love to find, is the raw, UDFA prospects. Listen for those players being talked about. When Mayock talks about those players, he rarely uses the “mainstream media” talking points. He really starts to act like a scout. Once you hear those “tells” about the UDFA players, you listed and watch for them when he speaks about the higher rated draft picks.
January 16th, 2018 at 9:21 am
Ryan Smith isn’t that bad. He and the rest of our DBs look terrible because the QB has 5-6 seconds to survey the field.
They need to upgrade the other safety position, Chris Conte is that bad.
January 16th, 2018 at 9:27 am
Evans improved in tackling and play-making as the season progressed. He is NOT a finished product, however. I’d like to see more improvement but I like what I see so far.
January 16th, 2018 at 9:53 am
Maybe the Bucs should hire Mayock as a draft consultant.
January 16th, 2018 at 9:54 am
The saints and Vikings would agree with mike.
January 16th, 2018 at 9:59 am
Mike Mayock has been wrong so much, who really listens to him?
January 16th, 2018 at 9:59 am
@ Daniel:
I agree. All DBs look better with a good Defensive Line.
J. Evans could arguably had a 3rd round draft grade by most teams. But Licht was targeting multiple Safeties in the 2nd Round. Nevertheless, He is a Buc and I am rooting for him.
IMO this was the best year we had for bringing our Rookies into the fold. They had to sit a little in the beginning, earned more playing time, made plays, and then kept getting more playing time by the end of the season.
Licht has done well as a GM with the DRAFT and UFDA players. If Heargraves, Spence, and Stevie T can come back next year and produce, then things will looking much better. Add in a new 2018 DE, CB, RB, DE, OG, OT, SS and more UDFAs and things will look very exciting for 2018.
And Yes, it is premature, but that is my draft ATM.
2018 DE, CB, RB, DE, OG, OT and SS
January 16th, 2018 at 10:44 am
I have said it and I will continue to say it. I hated the pick (mainly because I wanted Godwin there so bad) but was dead wrong. Evans grew every week until he was hurt. Three INT’s is nothing to sneeze at. He could very well turn into the player that seals the games for us with the late pick.
January 16th, 2018 at 10:45 am
Mayock also had Kamara as a first round grade. One of the few.
January 16th, 2018 at 10:54 am
Replacing Conte with Fitzpatrick could possibly make that safety combo the best in the NFL if Evans continues develop.
January 16th, 2018 at 11:03 am
@tnew
I wanted Godwin so badly, also. The Bucs did a ton of scouting on him and we were so lucky to get him. He was projected to go in the middle of the second, not the middle of the third. Pulled a second OJ Howard in the same draft and we got Evans.
January 16th, 2018 at 11:03 am
“Mike Mayock has been wrong so much, who really listens to him?’
———
Let me ask you this – who isn’t wrong a lot when it comes to the draft? Everyone is wrong when it comes to the draft. It’s one of the things that make it so interesting. You know every year there are going to be high picks that fail, and late round picks that become All-Pros. Mayock is wrong quite a bit, but he is wrong probably less than just about anyone else in the media.
January 16th, 2018 at 11:44 am
He also said this about Mark Baron when we drafted him. “His ceiling is a Pro Bowl safety and his floor is a Pro Bowl safety”! He’s not even a safety anymore!
January 16th, 2018 at 12:15 pm
“He also said this about Mark Baron when we drafted him. “His ceiling is a Pro Bowl safety and his floor is a Pro Bowl safety”! He’s not even a safety anymore!”
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So what? GM’s miss on picks every year, and they only get about 7. This guy picks for every single team, every single pick. You think he’s going to always be right? Your expectations are completely unrealistic. You can point to anyone (coach, GM, media, etc.) and show examples of foolish mistakes. If it were that easy, everyone would do it.
January 16th, 2018 at 12:20 pm
Ryan smith came in very raw. I saw huge improvement from him last 3 games. he has the speed and height. Hopefully he can continue to improve technique and his craft.
January 16th, 2018 at 12:28 pm
Evans has the best range of anyone in our secondary. Came across the entire field while the ball was in the air for one of his interceptions – one of the best elite S plays I saw all year.
Not sure wtf happened to Tandy. We should try to add a S in the offseason but I wouldn’t prioritize that as much as D-line.
I like Ryan Smith. I pray VHIII can rebound as a nickle at worst and maybe play like the oustide CB we saw in preseason picking off Andy Dalton. If those 2 somehow pan out then we’re a lot better at CB than you’d think but we can’t bank on that and need to add better talent regardless.
January 16th, 2018 at 1:34 pm
@Hawaiian Buc
Exactly!!! Across the NFL the average failure of NFL draft picks is around 50%.
Hard to see how Mayock exceeds the league average by much. Can’t blame him.
BTW if you have friends or relatives on the Island I hope they didn’t have to suffer through that 38 minutes thinking they are going to die in a nuclear attack. That had to really be horrible for those folks.
Not to defend the poor N.O. safety who missed that hit but Jimmy Johnson did make a point I hadn’t thought about in defending the guy. Jimmy said that Payton called a timeout before the play. He or assistant coaches undoubtedly told the team…NO pass interference whatever you do. Jimmy thought the DB got their too soon and then was afraid to hit the WR. Don’t know that I buy that completely but JJ knows far more to me and it is possible.
January 16th, 2018 at 2:05 pm
“So what? GM’s miss on picks every year, and they only get about 7. This guy picks for every single team, every single pick. You think he’s going to always be right? Your expectations are completely unrealistic. You can point to anyone (coach, GM, media, etc.) and show examples of foolish mistakes. If it were that easy, everyone would do it.”
Because he emphasized that he was a Pro Bowl safety from Day One, not potentially. That’s all. He was spot on Justin Evans though.
January 16th, 2018 at 2:09 pm
LC- I agree on pumping the brakes on safety. While still a ‘need’, it’s not nearly as glaring as others. With a better d-line, I think I can live with Conte.
January 16th, 2018 at 2:11 pm
J Evans really improved as the season went along it seemed – I remember how 90% of the posters here were calling him a bust by game 2 of the preseason and I was trying to walk them down from the ledge by pointing out that rookie safeties rarely play a lot their rookie year, and if they do they often struggle early. Well I’m pretty sure the Saints wished their rookie safety wasnt playingbSunday, oof. Anywho we shall see how his career goes, but he looks OK so far. Also as a reminder to Bucs fans John Lynch early in career wasn’t a very good player, he could hit, but otherwise was completely average at best, was a liability in coverage and would miss too many tackles – but from pure hard work and desire made himself the best. J Evans isn’t Lynch, but the lore of Lynch should be a story taught to every young player that comes through One Buc.
January 16th, 2018 at 2:14 pm
@StPete,
Yeah, I have a bunch of friends and family there. It was pretty crazy to say the least.
January 16th, 2018 at 4:17 pm
SPBF says:
“Across the NFL the average failure of NFL draft picks is around 50%.”
That’s only for 1st round and high 2nd round picks btw.
Later 2nd rounders “bust” about 55% of the time, 3rd rounders 60%+, 4th rounders close to 70% – and its downhill from there.
That’s why when people bitch about the handful of true “misses” that GM Licht has had through 4 drafts and go on and on about what a terrible GM he is – I find it rather amusing.
Licht’s “bust” rate so far through 4 drafts: alongside NFL average “bust” rate
1st Rd – 25% (will be 0% if VH3 gets it together) – (46% NFL avg)
2nd Rd – 33% – (50-55% depending on early or late – NFL avg)
3rd Rd – 0% ** (60+% NFL avg)
4th Rd – 0% – (65-70% NFL avg)
5th Rd – 50% – (75%+ NFL avg)
6th Rd – 66% – (80%+ NFL avg)
7th Rd – 50% – (85%+ NFL avg)
** = 50% if you consider Sims a “bust” which I don’t. Hard to call a guy who has been with the team that drafted him for 4 years and made some valuable contributions (even won us a game or 2) along the way a “bust” IMO. Injuries have hampered Sims for sure as well…
Let’s restate those same round by round draft percentages to accentuate the positive.
Jason Licht’s “success” rate in the NFL draft:
1st Rd – 75% (will be 100% if VH3 gets it together) – (54% NFL avg)
2nd Rd – 66% – (45-50% depending on early or late – NFL avg)
3rd Rd – 100% ** (40% NFL avg)
4th Rd – 100% – (30-35% NFL avg)
5th Rd – 50% – (25% NFL avg)
6th Rd – 33% – (20% NFL avg)
7th Rd – 50% – (15% NFL avg)
How can anyone look at those #s and not think – wow – our GM has done a really good job drafting the last 4 years?? Throw in the fact that Licht has for sure been better than most NFL GMs at bringing in UDFA talent as well – and there is just no reasonable way to deny that Jason Licht has done a very good job at identifying and procuring young talent for this team.
This trait is exactly the “strength” that I want in an NFL GM. The best way to create a good NFL team (that is capable of sustained success) is to consistently draft well. Free Agency is a major crap shoot for all NFL teams. The better teams are rarely very active in free agency aside from maybe 1 or 2 key acquisitions from year to year.
Plenty claim that Licht sucks because he hasn’t done anything about this position or that one – but the truth is – he just hasn’t really had a good opportunity to address those positions yet. Other than the few misses he has had which could have theoretically been used on other positions of need (and if those players even worked out) – the drafts just haven’t fallen that way in order to get those positions dealt with properly yet.
How quickly the complainers forget that this roster was literally a dumpster fire (Thanks Dom!) – devoid of NFL starting talent at all but about 5 or 6 positions when Licht 1st walked through the door at OBP exactly 4 years ago.
If OJ Howard had been picked earlier than he was and Derek Barnett had dropped to #19 – guess who our 1st rd pick last year would have been…
You gotta take the best of what any draft gives you – especially in the higher rounds. Licht is doing a good job of bringing in good football players and his bust/success ratios make that abundantly clear.
If Chubb is off the board at #7 and there are no trade down offers – are you gonna scream for Arden Key because we “NEED” a DE so badly??
Are you going to be mad at Licht for instead picking a true blue chip / 5 star player at an additional position of need in Minkah or Quenton Nelson? If so – then you just don’t “get it”.
January 16th, 2018 at 5:58 pm
whatever happened to the swarm D the Bucs employed where Kiffin barked that he wanted all 11 guys on D to touch the guy with the ball on every play. Pursuit and gang tackle was the hallmark of the team.
Whatever happened to that?
Whose bright idea was it to stop doing that?
Fix the trenches, fix the Bucs!!
January 16th, 2018 at 8:31 pm
Lord Cornelius… I can tell you WTF happened to Tandy!!! Our Defensive Cordinator played the Weed Whacker Ward and went 5 & 11!!
January 19th, 2018 at 2:34 am
Wow, I don’t know how I missed this. Thanks.
January 19th, 2018 at 2:35 am
What the hell I did read this already. What’s wrong me with? Could I have CTE?
January 19th, 2018 at 2:36 am
Wow, I even commented above……
….
….
this is creepy. I have no memory of this….