Fumbling
December 7th, 2017
“You are looking at the wrong QB.”
Sunday night and into Monday morning, many Bucs fans were screaming like Sam Kinison when he thought of getting married.
America’s Quarteback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, and his fumble that led to a Packers scoop-and-score, drove them nuts.
You would have thought by the reaction that Jameis personally took an ax handle to fans’ 70-inch HDTVs.
Well, Jameis may not be the fumbler you think he is (or hope he is, as the case may be). The worst fumbling culprit in the NFL is none other than Matt Stafford, quarterback of the Lions, who will face the Bucs on Sunday.
Stafford has lost seven fumbles this season. By comparison, Jameis has lost three.
Just a little bit of a difference, yes?
Interestingly, Stafford injured his throwing hand Sunday in a loss to Baltimore. While Stafford practiced yesterday, he didn’t throw during the viewing window open for Detroit media.
In a conference call with the Detroit pen and mic club yesterday, Bucs coach Dirk Koetter said that the Bucs will go after Stafford’s hand if he plays. Whether Stafford plays or not is still in doubt. Former University of Michigan QB Jake Rudock, a sixth-round pick by Detroit last year, is Stafford’s backup. Rudock has completed three passes in his career.
December 7th, 2017 at 9:06 am
MY TV is only 47″. I feel inadequate.
December 7th, 2017 at 9:07 am
Nice comment from Koetter, we’ll go after his hand. First Dork you’re sorry pass rush will have to get to his hand. It’ll be the same hand he’ll be waving bye, bye, to you’re sorry secondary should he play. Class less comment from a clue less coach.
December 7th, 2017 at 9:10 am
Is that really what he said???? Hodad, you’re right, if true, classless. I like Dirk…I don’t like the sound of this. I love my team. I am mad at them right now. GO BUCS!
December 7th, 2017 at 9:10 am
Yeah, but Jameis leads in the “bonehead disaster fumbles” category and keeps doing it!
December 7th, 2017 at 9:10 am
With Jameis, you will always get a whole lot of good mixed in with a whole lot of bad. That’s just who he is and how he plays
December 7th, 2017 at 9:10 am
Yet the haters will say Jameis is a turnover machine smh. Yes I agree Jameis does make mistakes (overthrows, forcing throws, trying to do too much) but I believe in Jameis and we should all stand behind him. Go Jameis! Go Bucs!
December 7th, 2017 at 9:15 am
Draft a QB and let Jameis play out his contract next year…Nothing more to see…He’ll never be “elite”…
December 7th, 2017 at 9:16 am
Funny. McCown used to make same plays and he was deemed “mcclown”
Fitz makes that play and he is “vegabond journeyman” (bum?) and that is what is expected cause he is so limited.
Jameis gets Joe’s backing like not that big of deal and people overreacting and giving the other team 7 pts (when it went into OT and didn’t need too) so what? and is still “americas quarterback”
Joe’spunchdrunkloveforjameis.com
December 7th, 2017 at 9:19 am
The Joe’s always have the oddest comparisons. How do you compare the two when JW has missed two full halves and 3 games?
December 7th, 2017 at 9:23 am
Oh lawd, I sure hope we don’t get the back-up! He’ll be the next coming of Tom Brady if he gets to play us.
December 7th, 2017 at 9:26 am
Joe says:
“Just a little bit of a difference, yes?”
Until you look at the fumbles Jw3 10, Stafford 11!!!!!!!!!!!
So JW3 was lucky someone was their to recover!!!!!!!!!
But to be fair, That is more on the O-line unless you are scrambling QB that is running!!!!!!!!!! ( I love Joe’s obscure stats that prove nothing!!!!!)
GO Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!
December 7th, 2017 at 9:32 am
@Detroit Free Press … “Bucs coach Dirk Koetter said Stafford’s injury has changed preparation for his team, too. “We try to find a way to get a hold of that hand,” Koetter said in a conference call with Detroit reporters.”
Rule #1 as a HC: Motivate your own team, not the other team. Of course, Dirk might’ve been misquoted, but IF he said that I’m flabbergasted.
December 7th, 2017 at 9:32 am
Well according to some bucs fan 3 fumbles lost makes you a bust. And 7 lost fumbles make u soooooo goooood.
December 7th, 2017 at 9:34 am
that “fumble” was more like a pick he fumbled trying to throw……smh lol
comparing apples to oranges
its the act of what he was doing when it happened that has fans beyond frustrated
December 7th, 2017 at 9:37 am
Bird Says:
December 7th, 2017 at 9:16 am
Funny. McCown used to make same plays and he was deemed “mcclown
Ur funny. U cant compare jw w mcclown who has been on every nfl team in 3000 career starts and still making dumb plays.
December 7th, 2017 at 9:41 am
Its funny that Koetter thinks he can get enough of a pass rush to actually “go after” Staffird’s hand.
As far as the game goes, Detroit hasnt had a RB go for 100 yards in a game in almost 4 seasons I believe (yet they’re offense is still better than ours). I expect that streak to end on Sunday
December 7th, 2017 at 9:42 am
I wonder how Dirk would like it if a coach said…we are gonna drive Winston’s shoulder into the ground
with your job on the line I bet he wouldn’t like it
I get that teams say that behind closed doors on “injured players” but a head coach that just lost his QB
kinda Classless……
And joe talks about Gruden being classless for not backing Koetter publically when the Glazers wont
what a joke joe HAHAHAHA
December 7th, 2017 at 9:43 am
Oh and Joe, was thinking as I read your article about Jameis not fumbling as much as some other QB (Stafford) that it’d be really interesting to see some statistics on how often a particular QB’s play ‘kills a drive’. INTs kill a drive obviously, but so do fumbles lost (fumbles not lost cost you a down but don’t necessarily kill a drive, unless thy happen on 3rd or 4th down I guess). But incomplete passes on 3rd down (or 4th down) also kill drives.
Like I said, I’d be interesting to see how Jameis stacks up against other starting QBs in an area like that. Gut feel is that he’d be in the bottom-third. His combined fumbles lost AND INTs is probably in the bottom third (over his 3 years), and the Bucs seem to pass a LOT on 3rd down rather than try to run for a 1st down. We seem to have ‘issues’ sustaining drives, thus so few TDs (for a ‘high-powered offense’) and so many FG attempts.
December 7th, 2017 at 9:47 am
Oh yea, and what’s Detoit’s record?! W’s, it’s NOT what’s for breakfast, it’s what playing football is ALL about.
December 7th, 2017 at 9:51 am
Dirk has a wisearse sense of humor that sometimes gets him in trouble. We do not know the context or expression if Dirk did say “we’re going after his hand”.
He might have been sarcastic…I mean really how do you even to after a QB’s hand? Step on it when he’s down as if that’s not going to cause major fines and uproars. I think if Dirk said this he was probably making fun of the entire concept of going after a QB’s hand.
December 7th, 2017 at 9:51 am
@Lamarcus
Interesting that McClown was ranked 1 spot ahead of JW in an NFL.com article yesterday.
Check it out.
December 7th, 2017 at 9:52 am
Rudock has completed 3 passes in his career? WEll, he will be talked about like crazy on Monday’s ESPN. All of a sudden, he’s the 2nd coming courtesy of the No Defense Bucs. Just watch and see.
December 7th, 2017 at 9:53 am
Lamarcus.
Read my post. I am not comparing Jameis to McCown. Jameis way more talented. I am comparing joe laying Into every buc qb except untouchable jameis who gets a pass
But hey you think Jameis is a future hall of famer so I get it. Please Lay off the glue sniffing this early in morning.
December 7th, 2017 at 10:02 am
Who cares. Dude can’t hit a moving target. Looks like Trent Dilfer. Is it too much too expect too see a Bucs Receiver be thrown a catchable ball while running towards the intended end zone. Nobody would care about the stupid mistakes if he were able too overcome them.
December 7th, 2017 at 10:02 am
Jameis’ “fumble” Sunday never hit the ground and he was attempting a forward pass…..I don’t understand why it wasn’t an interception instead.
December 7th, 2017 at 10:05 am
You CAN compare mccown to jameis, theyre both qbs in the nfl. Mccown is playing way betted than jameis this year. N I’m a jameis fan, stating the obvious. Ya gota take off the orange colored sunglasses sometimes and use your brain not your heart. The coaching this year is whats killing the bucs, and jameis. We had a great offensive coordinator, and decided to promote him. Now he is a lousy coordinator and lousy hc. It was a bad move, time to move on before jameis regresses even more. Thats not even mentioning the defense I cant stand to watch anymore. One handed stafford is gona have a field day probably, then eat a W off his hurt hand postgame.
December 7th, 2017 at 10:18 am
50 turnovers in his career. What a joke
December 7th, 2017 at 10:29 am
Bird
In a perfect world, mcclown should be ahead of jw. Anything else should be a crime
December 7th, 2017 at 10:50 am
Jameis Winston (Career Stats)
Games Played: 41
Games Started: 41
Quarterback Record: 17-24 ←
Completion: 60.1 ←
Passing Yards: 10,322
Y/A: 7.4
Touchdowns: 62
Interceptions: 39
Fumbles:26
Combined Career Turnovers (Int/Fmb): 65 ←
Fumbles: Ranking
2016 NFL: 10 (3rd)
2017 NFL: 10 (3rd)
Passes Intercepted:
2015 NFL: 15 (5th)
2016 NFL: 18 (2nd)
December 7th, 2017 at 10:52 am
Name of blog changing to:
JameisApologistFan.com
December 7th, 2017 at 10:55 am
Bird
Joe doesn’t have a bias opinion about Jw. When he did really bad earlier in the year Joe did post article about that. U have to be everyday to know that
December 7th, 2017 at 11:06 am
Hahahahah
Joejameisfan.com. Really.
Joe. Please chime in here to comment that you have bias for Jameis. The occasional article that joe says Jameis didn’t have the best game doesn’t count.
He calls him americas qb. When he has way more losses than wins. You are right though?
Please no glue
December 7th, 2017 at 11:09 am
9 out of 10 articles about Jameis alone is pretty good confirmation
Joe’s have even written they are gonna write who they want to write about on this site cause it’s there’s. And Jameis is their guy
December 7th, 2017 at 11:29 am
Haha going after his hand, why not try to tackle the guy instead of whiffing by his hand. And also please GMC and Baker when it’s three minutes prior to kick off have your game face on. Unlike in Green Bay when you were smiling, laughing, and pointing into the crowd literally three minutes before kick off. You can do that after the game or you 6 months off.
December 7th, 2017 at 11:36 am
All I know is Winston has 9 turnovers in 9 games played – right on par with the NFL average; and a huge improvement in terms of turnovers per game compared to the prior 2 years.
He’s only through 6 interceptions this year; and only thrown an interception in 3 of the 9 games played. 2 of those picks were in the Vikings game and not his fault (Djax falling / interfered with; and the other ball hitting ME in both hands).
So to just state this again:
Completion % up
Turnover rate down
Are those not the 2 biggest things we would have been looking for this year?
YPA still fine. TD % slightly down. That’s the ONLY thing he’s “regressed” in this season; and rationale thinking fans would point to the worst red zone play book / play caller in the league for that (Koetter).
Oh and Winston has been hurt for most of his performances lol.. – but let’s not act like that means anything right? What a bum!
December 7th, 2017 at 11:37 am
He’s only thrown*
December 7th, 2017 at 11:55 am
Lord C, I really enjoy your comments, and usually agree with you. I’m sorry, but Jameis has ‘regressed’ somewhat … in certain areas. Yes his completion % is up (very slightly), but look at the quality of the receivers he’s getting to throw to (didn’t have DJax, OJ or Godwin last year for starters, plus he’s still got ME13, Hump & Brate). Most NFL QBs would die for a TE/WR corps like the Bucs have. And yet Bucs are still only putting up about 21-22 points per game (average), and throwing it more than in the past it looks like. The ball’s in Jameis’ court on most plays, but we’re not sustaining drives nor putting TDs on the board. Bucs put their $$$ into ‘Weapons for Jameis’ … but the results are the same. If you want to call that ‘not regressing’ then fine, but I for one expected a LOT more out of this offense this year.
December 7th, 2017 at 12:00 pm
And Lord C, should’ve added … I do view Jameis as our franchise QB. I don’t buy this ‘he’s only 23 years old’ any longer because he’s in his 3rd year at the helm of this Bucs’ ship and we’re not getting better, we’re getting worse. Jameis is probably the least of our problems right now (DLine? OLine? Secondary? RBs?) but if folks are going to anoint him as leader of the Bucs, he needs to start showing better leadership. And some of his recent ‘antics’ just don’t cut it along those lines.
December 7th, 2017 at 12:05 pm
@Defense
Agree somewhat.
This offense is actually top 5 in passing yards; and top 13 in total yards per game – so they are doing just fine at moving the chains and putting drives together.
The issue is they are bottom of the league in red zone efficiency.
If we were calling good plays in the red zone and Winston was just missing dudes for TDs that’d be one thing but that hasn’t been the case. I can recall a ton of failed red zone play calling sequences vs Winston just missing an open WR in the red zone.
December 7th, 2017 at 12:07 pm
vs not being able to recall* Winston just missing an open WR in the red zone I meant…
At least not nearly the same rate. I can easily think of like 5+ horrible red zone play calling sequences off the top of my head this season. Or times the O-line f*cked up. Or times ME’s droped a pass. But really it’s mostly the play calling sequences / play designs that have driven me absolutely insane.
The only open WR in the end zone i can think of him missing was the Djax interception in Minnesota and that wasn’t a red zone call.
December 7th, 2017 at 12:15 pm
Rest assured if Jake Rudock starts Sunday, I’ll be starting him on Draft Kings. That’s how much faith I have in this defense.
December 7th, 2017 at 12:22 pm
The Bucs are a losing team because they only focus on preventing Jameis from doing what he does wrong rather than unleashing him and putting him in situations to excel at what he does right. Everyone knew what he was when the Bucs drafted him…
Unleash Jameis – take the damn bad – and watch the good increase exponentially.
Life is very simple for successful people: they learn by doing., not by not doing. The goal isn’t to not do, it’s to do. Jameis will not get better by focusing on NOT turning the ball over- he will get better by going for it, and learning how to get better at making big plays (which in turn lessesns the bad ones).
It’s all about mindset. The Bucs don’t have the coaching staff to push them towards this.
December 7th, 2017 at 12:30 pm
@The Buc Ostrich
You are aware that the vast majority of Jameis’ fumbles this season where caused by errant/ mistimed snaps from the 1st year center Ali Marpet.
Man for a guy who claims to know so much you really seem kinda naive on so many things…
December 7th, 2017 at 12:57 pm
Our defense will make Jake Rudock look like Tom Brady.
December 7th, 2017 at 3:52 pm
In his nine games, quarterback Jameis’ average depth of target is 11.2 yards downfield, the highest mark among starting quarterbacks this year. The offense Koetter runs provides almost zero short outlets on most plays. This means Jameis is holding onto the ball longer than almost every other QB as well.
This leads to more fumble opportunities and pressure. I love that the Bucs take strikes downfield – but those strikes are ALWAYS more effective with a real threat underneath as well. The Buc don’t employ that in a way that is very effective and it is the reason the team has so much trouble getting int to the endzone more often.
December 7th, 2017 at 8:57 pm
Funny you would mention Kinison…he went to my HS for a time, in same class with my sister…She said he was a quiet and somewhat withdrawn guy in HS.
Now I will admit that I have imitated him a few times at the end of eight games so far this year, and getting pretty horse. Maybe a couple more beers would sooth the old throat, but I doubt it. And then there are the nightmares. But the worst part is that when I wake up, I find that my nightmare is actually reality.
December 8th, 2017 at 7:43 am
Thanks LC and Defense…good sane comments. I would offer that the last fumble was primarily (primarily) about protection. True, the QB must protect the ball, as every player must when they have it. The best (best) fix for that is protection (line/backs/TEs). The next best is to throw the ball away or dump it down (if available) if you are under duress. I like the protect option more. Not an excuse for Winston (I see his true flaws clearly enough), but it is an indictment on our protection schemes or execution in the GB game. Too much quick pressure in that game. On regression, I think he has overall gotten better, not worse. The team W/L doesn’t show it, but the eyeball test (taken over the entire season to date) does. LC gave good individual numbers to support the case. I think he does need to run more when its available and he is healthy (stay ahead of the chains). And at 3 years I see (and hope) his progression is like Rothlisberger’s, who was on a similar trajectory early in his career. Franchise QB? Definitely. Elite? No. BUT…there are very few of those and he has the skills to be that. The entire TEAM needs to get better across the board to make that happen, IMO. Go Bucs!