Interesting Offensive Line Info
September 20th, 2017
Intrigue.
In case you haven’t noticed, there is an epidemic in the NFL and it isn’t what teams charge for beer.
Monday in his day-after presser, winning Bucs coach Dirk Koetter mentioned that Evan Smith played well enough in training camp and the preseason that Koetter dabbled with the idea of starting Smith.
This startled Joe. Why? Well, last year, Koetter mentioned Kevin Pamphile had graded out (no, not the nonsense that the PFF tribe peddles, but the team’s internal grading system) as the team’s best offensive lineman.
Well, if Koetter said he had considered Smith’s play on par of Pamphile this summer, has Pamphile slipped that much or has Smith undergone a career renaissance?
This potentially sets up something very interesting. Both Pamphile and Smith are free agents after the season. Pamphile is 26, Smith is 31.
In a perfect world, Joe believes the Bucs are eyeing Pamphile to take over some day for Demar Dotson at right tackle provided Pamphile is around when Dotson’s contract runs out after the 2019 season.
However, teams are desperate for offensive linemen. At least, competent ones.
Pamphile — more importantly, his agent — likely is very aware of this and Pamphile just may hit the lottery in the open market in the spring. A good offensive lineman who is just coming into his prime and can play multiple positions? Given the state of offensive line play (Bill Polian has said he’s never seen it this bad), Pamphile would likely have to fight off all of his suitors.
Now, yeah, the easy answer here is to pay Pamphile. Well, the reason why Joe has been saying for months the Bucs have no more than a four-year window to make a Super Bowl run (more likely a two-year window) is that the Bucs are going to have to start paying a lot of folks pretty soon. Don’t be shocked if America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, breaks $30 million per season.
Then there is Mike Evans, Kwon Alexander, Ali Marpet, Donovan Smith… and it keeps going on from there. Very soon, the Bucs won’t have the cap space to pay everybody.
That is why Joe has a hunch the Bucs are scared to death Pamphile tests the free agent waters.
September 20th, 2017 at 5:06 am
Pamphile sucks at RT!! He is too short and too slow!
Go wach his snaps at RT. He is not quick!
Let Pamphile and Evan Smith walk.
Draft the best Guard/Center available in the 2nd round next year.
We need another young stud to develop with Marpet and Donovan Smith.
Demar Dotson should be kept 1-3 more years.
Then draft his replacement in the 2nd round also.
September 20th, 2017 at 5:27 am
D Smith hasn’t earned a second contract that would take up that much cap space. Yet.
September 20th, 2017 at 6:04 am
Kevin Pamphile too slow for RT?
September 20th, 2017 at 6:12 am
Anyone who watched that MNF game willing to trade Donovan Smith for Greg Robinson or Erick Flowers? Didn’t think so.
And come on, Pamphille may not be a good RT but he is an above average LG. Can’t just “let him walk.” Y’all are ridiculous!
September 20th, 2017 at 6:30 am
If you are growing a young, solid O Line, why let this guy walk? Would you give him some good guarantees now so he doesn’t hit the market? Jason Licht always said you want to sign your own guys. Here is a 5th rounder they turned in to a starter. I know you can’t pay everyone, but if he is solid, keep him. They are playing chicken with the train unless they know someone will way overpay for him down the line.
September 20th, 2017 at 6:32 am
teacherman, you need an RB, and most likely a CB next year in the draft. You can never have enough DE /passrush talent either. I would would rather pay Pamphile and fill the must need spots first.
September 20th, 2017 at 6:41 am
“Koetter dabbled with the idea of starting Smith” … but maybe at Center not Guard. That would’ve allowed him to keep Marpet & Sweezy at Guard, with Donovan Smith & Pamphile at Tackle. You made the assumption Joe that Evan Smith would replace Pamphile, but maybe it’s Dotson who would’ve been odd-man-out if Koetter had pressed on with that idea. Which he decided against obviously.
Far as our future OLine goes, Pamphile will get paid … by the Bucs in 2018. It all starts in the trenches, and it looks like this OLine is finally starting to gel. So will Marpet & Donovan Smith in 2019. Sweezy is under contract through 2020, and Dotson through 2019, after which he’ll be replaced (if not before). My guess is we’ll be drafting an OLineman with a high pick (1-3) in 2018, 2019 & 2020.
September 20th, 2017 at 6:51 am
I will say this. I know it is toughest position on online, but Donovan smith was clearly the weak link last game. Maybe he had something going on but it wasn’t good enough
This is year 3. Hopefully it was a fluke and he plays well moving forward but paying him big left tackle money at this point is not smart
September 20th, 2017 at 6:54 am
Which is exactly why we didn’t guarantee 31 y.o. Calais Campbell $15M per year for multiple years as Joe suggested just yesterday that we could/should have done…
September 20th, 2017 at 7:01 am
Look at the bright side. The Bucs never used to have any talent that the rest of the teams would covet. This falls in the category of “good problem to have.”
September 20th, 2017 at 7:17 am
I don’t agree with joe at all about the Bucs having a two year window
THe BUCs are #6 in cap space and will probably needs to sit on the sideline during free agency but they should be able to resign their own guys
September 20th, 2017 at 7:37 am
Sign Pamphile
Let Evan Smith Walk
Spend a high draft pick on an Ollineman (1-3)
We still have cap space to start taking care of young Bucs
September 20th, 2017 at 7:43 am
Since we have some players coming up who will demand big money it’s now on Licht (if he gets a contract extension) to start drafting players who can play on the cheap. Pamphile is a “solid” LG and I hope he doesn’t think he’s gonna get 10+ million on another team.
September 20th, 2017 at 8:29 am
Trade pamphile for a 3rd or 4th start smith simple as that.
September 20th, 2017 at 8:55 am
There is no such thing as a window closing when your Franchise QB is 23 years young. That’s silly.
September 20th, 2017 at 9:15 am
Joe explained this very clearly in the story.
September 20th, 2017 at 9:24 am
Pamphile is a “solid” LG and I hope he doesn’t think he’s gonna get 10+ million on another team.
I certainly take your point about hoping Pamphile and his agent don’t think they’re going to get an overvalued contract…at least from the Bucs.
But the sad fact is that it doesn’t really matter what Pamphile or his agent “think”.
The NFL is a business and all that matters is what the other 31 NFL GM’s “think”.
And even more sadly…even if the consensus of GM’s agree with your opinion of Pamphile’s talent it only takes ONE GM to overpay any player especially an OL.
September 20th, 2017 at 9:35 am
Let the entire team walk. I heard of this team of convicts that beat the guards. I think we can sign them. Just need day pass approval so they can play on Sunday.
September 20th, 2017 at 9:40 am
A two year window haha , the ignorance of the average fan . We are more than fine and will lock up the young cornerstones on our roster . Also I fully expect Jameis taking less to see this team and franchise win more
September 20th, 2017 at 9:53 am
At this point I don’t see a reason to pay Donovan Smith. We can draft a left tackle in the fifth or sixth round that will play as good as him. Oh and maybe the new guy can put a hand on a Bears edge rusher every down. Maybe he could pass block any of us too. That’d be an upgrade. Hope D Smith proves me wrong soon. Really do. But 5/8 QB pressures came from our left side. And it seems like that’s what I heard all last year too.
September 20th, 2017 at 10:57 am
@BigBucFan11
I wouldnt be shocked if Smith moves to the right side when Dotsons contract is up and draft or sign a stud LT.
September 20th, 2017 at 11:10 am
2 year window lol. You cant make this stuff up. Joe, you are by far the funniest journalist/blogger in this area. Thats why we love you..2 year window.
September 20th, 2017 at 11:18 am
D Smith is not the answer at LT. He’s going to get Winston hurt. Need to draft the best LT in the draft. E Smith is ok. Will be easy to resign. If Pamphile asks for to much let him walk. Dotson is a avg. RT at best.
September 20th, 2017 at 12:24 pm
Donvan Smith isnt the Answer at LT?
Lmfao
What is it with the really Stupid Bay Area posters.
Have they ever watched a football game? Sober?
They certainly have never played in a game.
Idiots here hated Donald Penn. our “too Fat” Left tackle.
You know, the Guy anchoring the Raiders Oline. Will be in the playoffs this year
Went to Probowl as an Alternate for the Bucs.
Went to Probowl for Raiders last year
Proving the Stupidity of many posters here
Donovan Smith has a very good chance of going to probowl this year.
He is probably the strongest LT in the League, and has very gast feet.
But the morons here think every sack is Donovans fault. Very rarely- it is. LTs play against the best pass rushers in the world. Every week.
You are gonna get beat occasionally.
Winston never gives up on a play. Often- its his fault.
Plus every Oline trues to confuse the defense, by running twist,Traps,& stunts.
Just becsuse a DE is lined up across from Smith- doesnt mean hes Smiths man.
Most posters have no idea when the team is running a trap. Neither do those idiots at PFF.
So- unless you know what you are talking about- shut the F up.
Its like thise clueless morons Bashing McCoy and Conte.
To anyone who knows anything about football- they immediately know the poster is a moron.
Tired of explaining how good Donovan is.
Its just easier to point out how Stupid you are.
If only we had a DE. A talentless kid like Glennon couldnt pass for 300 yards!
September 20th, 2017 at 1:02 pm
some of you people are freakin nuts…..pamphile can play every position along the oline very well….that alone should keep him on the roster along with his age….I think he plays RT and G about the same…SOLID….
to me the bigger question hows the development of caleb benenoch coming along?….can he play T/G as solid as pamphile?…if so, then you let Dotson walk and keep e.smith as a back if we can….
and lay off d.smith…until he starts looking like e.flowers, im fine with his play….GO BUCS!!!!
September 20th, 2017 at 1:59 pm
Man, I’m just shaking my head. People act like good O-linemen grow on trees. How many former 1st rounders, supposed “locks”, are now either back-ups or out of the league? Offensive lines take the most time to gel. You don’t trade known O-line commodities for draft picks in the hopes that said draft pick will be better! Why?! Because you don’t know!
We have a good core here of competent linemen (Dotson? ish!). We should do what we can to keep them together without overpaying too much for their services.
September 20th, 2017 at 2:06 pm
I don’t think Pamphile has earned much of a pay upgrade so far. A slight increase maybe…but he’s only just reached the point where he might be good. If they give him a good deal, I hope it is full of incentives.
Mike Evans is more important in my opinion.
Jameis Winston and him need to be kept together.
Marpet should be extended soon too. D Smith needs to prove himself this year. Hoping he does.
So far as Kwon Alexander, I love the guy, but really, he needs to step up into the elite level. I’m all for paying him…but with Beckwith developing, Kwon Alexander may eventually become expendable IF he doesn’t take a huge leap forward.
September 20th, 2017 at 2:08 pm
teacherman777 Says
“Demar Dotson should be kept 1-3 more years.”
Lost me here. Why keep him around if he is always injured? Makes no sense.
Trade him! Get more picks!!!
September 20th, 2017 at 2:16 pm
Okay…let’s insert some common sense here:
Evan Smith may not be a starter, but he IS a very healthy backup. In two spots. Are you people forgetting we need depth???
Kevin Pamphile may not have proven himself (yet; but he could by the end of the year). Again…even if he is not worth keeping as a starter, he HAS proven himself to be excellent depth at the very least. And NOT at center.
Donovan Smith is not THE weak spot on the line…right tackle is so far…but he would be right behind that.
You guys really need to consider depth at all times. Depth. Depth. Depth.
So far as the draft, we have to pick a running back in the first round next year. There is no way around it, even if Martin comes back and gets 1200 yards and 10 TDs. He’s aging…bring in a guy to replace him soon…if his replacement is not already on the team.
So far as the other picks…too soon to say. We have a really good team now, so other than RB and maybe OT, we don’t really know what we need.
September 20th, 2017 at 2:16 pm
On offense I mean.
Defense is another thing altogether.
September 20th, 2017 at 3:08 pm
Bonzai, I’ll piggy-back your “depth” comment. Depth might be THEE most important at OL.
September 20th, 2017 at 3:20 pm
Once you get a young line together, and you believe they can improve as a unit- then you let them grow together.
Thats how you win Championships.
Constantly screwing around with the lineup, does nothing but preveny the line from building chemistry
If Pamphile isnt out LG of the future- we better figure out who the heck is!!
And quick!
The clock is already ticking