Baiting Jameis
July 14th, 2017
Bait.
A lot of Bucs fans mutter under their pints of beer that America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, is an inaccurate passer.
One NFL analyst disagrees.
Typing for BSPN, former Redskins safety Matt Bowen doesn’t believe Jameis is inaccurate. Rather, Bowen praises Jameis for being able to thread the needle. However, Bowen believes when Jameis misfires it’s more because of the play of defensive backs.
In particular, Bowen is convinced Jameis is baited way too much.
I don’t ever want to take away Winston’s aggressive style when it comes to attacking the defense and putting the ball into tight windows. But as a former defensive back, I also know that opposing secondaries are going to continue to bait Winston into negative throws. This showed on the tape with Winston as a rookie, and it still pops up when defenses use late safety rotations or have the cornerbacks lie in the weeds underneath. …
From a coaching perspective, we have to limit these plays through film study and finding the proper balance with Winston. You never want to take away a player’s ability to challenge the opposition, but Winston has to understand how defenses (especially the secondary) are going to play him — trap coverages, rotations and movement — to take advantage of his playing style. But that also gives Winston the chance to counter. In short, be aggressive but also be smart.
Bowen even uses an example of how Aqib Talib baited Jameis into a pick.
Hell, Talib, the former cabbie-punching, helmet-wielding, granny-hasslin,’ gun-totin’ Bucs corner, said as much to Joe last year when he clowned Jameis in a horrible loss to the Broncos.
There is no question that Jameis watches NFL game tape as if it is porn. The amount of homework he logs on opponents is not the issue. But that gunslinger gene in Jameis gets him in trouble. Maybe a few times too many.
July 14th, 2017 at 9:38 am
It’s all gonna be about the options. We have them now. No reason to go for the home run (Mike Evans) every snap.
I’ve said it before, Jameis has never had this many weapons since he won the NC at FSU. Now that the Bucs are loaded on offense, we’re going to see exactly the Jameis we’ve all be waiting for.
July 14th, 2017 at 9:39 am
Joe
Where is the Good Morning
July 14th, 2017 at 9:59 am
When you complete 25% (or less) of your passes that travel 20 yards or more in the air and complete 58% and 60% of your passes in your first two years you are not accurate. Especially when QB’s who are perceived by Bucs fans to be worse than Jameis have higher completion percentages.
Overthrowing open receivers, putting the ball in bad spots (high, low or behind a receiver) and bad decision making have killed the Bucs along with turnovers in close games these past two years. Until Jameis corrects those flaws he’ll do just enough to tease us with greatness but break our hearts with his inconsistent play.
July 14th, 2017 at 10:13 am
any qb should be judged on accuracy above everything else. Mr Winston is not there yet. Buc fans and joe make a BIG deal out of leadership but anyone on the team can be a leader.Having so many overthrown passes does not make a top tier qb.
July 14th, 2017 at 11:46 am
Sure, thrown ball placement accuracy is off at times. It could be something Bucs fans just have to live with or Winston will improve in that area. It is being pointed out so much as to be bordering on nitpicking. Not trying to diminish the importance but look at the whole picture of a growing team led by a QB the fans appreciate.
July 14th, 2017 at 11:53 am
No, a qb should not be judged on accuracy above all else. They should be judged on winning above all else. A qb whose scheme calls for more deep passes will have a lower completion %. Look at bradfords last year. Is he better than winston??? Scheme is a huge factor in comp %. With that said, he does need to improve his accuracy a bit, but no reason to think the sky is falling.
July 14th, 2017 at 11:53 am
Let’s stop glossing over accuracy like it’s not an issue for his career he is
73.4% 1-10 yards
61.2% 11-20 Yards
32.6% 21 and up
If he excels at the 1-10 yards do that more to keep the chains moving, and stop forcing throws that aren’t as likely to be completed.
July 14th, 2017 at 12:06 pm
Rings! > anything else.
July 14th, 2017 at 1:05 pm
Jameis has a HIGHER CAREER COMPLETION PERCENTAGE than Andrew Luck who I never hear referred to as “inaccurate” … interesting.
July 14th, 2017 at 1:07 pm
The talon article says it all:
Harris even served upadvice for Jameis: “He just has to be smarter with the football. Versus a team like us, you can’t come out throwing picks like that. You can’t do that. They got to run the ball. They got to help him out.”
They got to help him out. Exactly!!!
July 14th, 2017 at 1:43 pm
@Joe-
Rings! > anything else.
Dilfer, Eli, Brad Johnson and Russell Wilson all better than Marino, Fouts & Moon?
Come on you can’t honestly believe that. Football is a team game, can’t use team achievements to rank a QB
July 14th, 2017 at 2:00 pm
^ Wins in “team” sports are a horirble way to judge individual players … Marino, Fouts, Moon, Kelly, Barry Sanders, Dickerson, Earl Campbell, Randy Moss, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, Mike Trout, etc, etc, etc … all “team” sports are filled with garbage players that have rings and all-time greats that retired without even one.
July 14th, 2017 at 2:25 pm
@@@@@@@@@@@ MUST READ @@@@@@@@@@@
Stud Says:
July 14th, 2017 at 11:53 am
Let’s stop glossing over accuracy like it’s not an issue for his career he is
73.4% 1-10 yards
61.2% 11-20 Yards
32.6% 21 and up
If he excels at the 1-10 yards do that more to keep the chains moving, and stop forcing throws that aren’t as likely to be completed.
———————–
2016 STATS:
TOM BRADY was 65.3% on 1-10 yards *** Jameis 8.1% better!
MATT RYAN was 58.3% on 11-20 yards *** Jameis 2.9% better!
ARON RODGERS was 29.2% on 21+ yards *** Jameis was 3.4% better!
People who whine about Jameis’ accuracy are BONE-HEADS who have literally no idea what they’re talking about, period!
July 14th, 2017 at 2:29 pm
So, to repeat JAMEIS was far more accurate last year than TOM BRADY on 1-10 yard throws, more accurate than MVP MATT RYAN on 11-20 yard throws and more accurate than AARON RODGERS on 21+ yard deep throws.
Jameis isn’t just the greatest and most accomplished QB of his age in NFL history, he’s a future all-time great and first ballot HOF’er imho … and he does NOT have “accuracy problems”. Could he be “more accurate”? Of course, but doing so would make him head and shoulders more accurate in the above stats than Brady and Rodgers … is that really what people are demanding of a kid that was still 22 when his season ended last year? Really?
July 14th, 2017 at 2:45 pm
Thank you NFLNUT with the reality check.
Accuracy based on a completion % is the most important thing? What a joke.
Sam Bradford / Alex Smith / Ryan Tannehil are gods if that all that matters.
Very narrow minded analysis going on here. This same Stud guy suggested that Jameis Winston left 1000 yards on the field because his completions weren’t in-stride enough for the WR lol.
July 14th, 2017 at 2:54 pm
@NFLnut-The accuracy is an issue, yes Jameis can be ranked in one category higher than Brady, Rodgers or even the MVP but until he’s consistent (something even Jameis admits he needs to be better at) he won’t be better than any of those QB’s and give this team a chance to win each week.
Once he improves his intermediate to deep accuracy he will be worthy of your HOF claim.
@LordC-I don’t ever remember typing that. But I will say jameis didn’t help his receivers out with any YAC with the high, low or behind throws he had a habit of throwing last year. YAC is dependent on an accurate QB and a receiver being able to break tackles and be elusive ala Charles Sims in Atlanta opening day last year.
July 14th, 2017 at 2:54 pm
Accuracy NOT based on completion percentage is an asinine argument.
How do you measure a QB’s accuracy if not by how many passes he completes?
It’d be like measuring an NBA’s accuracy not by his shooting percentage but by how his release looks or the ball spins … stupid.
Brady gets great protection from his line, plays in a perfect system and has amazing targets (Edelman, Gronk, Bennett, great receiving RBs, etc) and is known as the accuracy king on short routes AND YET Jameis bests him by a solid margin despite being 18 years younger, under constant pressure , no real “system” to speak of and with a far less talented receiving corps.
Again, anyone who says Jameis has an “accuracy problem” is an absolute bone-head!
Jameis’ problem was a bad line, no running game and only one receiver that scares defenses … not his supposed lack of accuracy.
July 14th, 2017 at 3:20 pm
Stud … “consistent”? You do realize that the stats I referenced were based on the full 16 game season, right?
You want Jameis to be more consistent that completing a higher % of 1-10 yard throws for the entire year than TOM BRADY?
You want Jameis to be more consistent that completing a higher % of 21+ yard deep throws for the entire year than AARON RODGERS?
COME ON MAN?
Jameis’ problem was his line, lack of running game and having just one dude on the offense that scared defense, period.
Jameis Winston is good enough right now to win a Super Bowl. He is better right now than Joe Flacco and Eli Manning were when they won any of their SuperBowl’s as “the man” on their respective teams and infinitely better than a plethora of other ring-winners who were not “the man” on their team, such as: Dilfer, Hostettler, Brad Johnson, Roethlisberger (1st ring), Brady (first 2 rings), Russell Wilson, Aikman and many others.
July 14th, 2017 at 4:00 pm
@NFLnut-
Accuracy NOT based on completion percentage is an asinine argument.
-What does this even mean? Who said or inferred this…
Jameis bests him by a solid margin despite being 18 years younger, under constant pressure , no real “system” to speak of and with a far less talented receiving corps.
-No real system? Don’t tell that to Dirk Koetter, especially since his “No real system” was the #5 ranked offense in jameis’s rookie year…
Again, anyone who says Jameis has an “accuracy problem” is an absolute bone-head!
-I guess Ira Kaufman is a “Bone head”
You want Jameis to be more consistent that completing a higher % of 1-10 yard throws for the entire year than TOM BRADY?
-GREAT JOB you beat Tom Brady in one category anyone can cherry pick stats.
Does Jameis need a balanced attack to be successful? Heck yeah, all young QB’s do. He had 2-3 good targets last year in Evans, Brate and Humphries.
And NO Jameis cannot win a Super Bowl right now, when Flacco and Eli went on their runs they protected the football in the postseason something Jameis has yet to master. Dilfer, Rothelisberger, Johnson and the younger version of Brady had dominant defenses to carry them along and again those players protected the ball.
July 14th, 2017 at 4:02 pm
Just stop the ints and I’ll be happy!
July 14th, 2017 at 4:03 pm
Oh and put back the morning cup please!
July 14th, 2017 at 4:25 pm
Stud,
1.) LordCornelius is the one who said one shoudn’t equate completion percentage with accuracy … and that is indeed idioitc.
2.) If you think Koetter’s “system” is anything close to Bellichick’s you’re certifiable and if you think a 22 year old playing in said “system” should be as adept as a guy who’s been playing in for 18 years like Brady, you’re nuts … by the way if Koetter had a “”system” last year it sure was nothing like the previous year as they had no running game to speak of … they had Jameis, Evans and little else!
3.) If Ira Kaufman thinks Jameis’ main problem was “accuracy” rather than line play, lack of a running game and a lack of weapons, I would indeed say he’s a bone-head … but … I doubt Ira fees that way.
4.) He beat Brady in the stat Brady is known for and beat Rodgers in the stat Rodgers is known for … and you’re whining about his accuracy .. it’s ridiculous.
5.) You’re insane if you don’t think Jameis as-is could have replaced the list of QBs I mentioned and won a ring … Jameis could have multiple fingers chopped off and still be better than Dilfer!
6.) Jameis proved last year he does NOT need a balanced offense to be “successful” but ALL QBs even Brady, Rodgers Brees, etc., need a balanced TEAM to win a ring … Jameis’ problem was a lack of weapons not “accuracy”!
July 14th, 2017 at 4:50 pm
There seem to be 2 camps in this ‘How to Fix Jameis’ piece, but IMO both camps are only partially right. NFLNut you’re 90% right when you say “Jameis’ problem was a bad line, no running game and only one receiver that scares defenses … not his supposed lack of accuracy.’ Having better protection, a more effective running game & better receiving weapons is bound to help him this year. But yes, Jameis does have an accuracy problem … with certain throws in certain areas of the field. Big deal, every QB does I’d be willing to bet.
And Stud, I’d venture to guess that virtually every QB is more accurate on the short passes … duh. That’s not a valid argument to throw more short passes; it’d most likely result in the defense figuring out pretty quickly how to counter that. A good OC & QB has to keep the defense off-balance with a mix of plays (running-passing, long-short, etc). Keep ’em guessing, take what they give you, and make them pay for mistakes (like being overly-aggressive in blitzing too much etc). Dirk Koetter by the way is excellent at that … when he has the horses to work with.
There was an excellent analysis done on a competing site title ‘Jameis Winston Cumulative Accuracy Chart 2016’ (https://www.pewterreport.com/cover-3-playing-the-fade-identifying-winstons-deep-accuracy-issues/). Clearly Jameis has some things he needs to work on this year. No question in my mind that he & the Bucs coaches know very well what they are & will fix what can be fixed (not all are ‘fixable’ … Jameis has certain unique skills & talents that simply make him Jameis). Worth the read.
July 14th, 2017 at 4:59 pm
@ Stud. (sorry this comment never posted like an hour ago)
Jameis Winston had the least amount of YAC help in terms of padding his yardage compared to any other QB. He was at 50 something percent when the average YAC% of a QB’s yards is like 80 something percent (i don’t have all the data in front of me right now but that was what I brought up in the original thread).
If Winston had just the AVERAGE % of yard after catch help he would have thrown for almost 5000 yards last year (4900) or 1000 more yards. Not elite YAC. Not top 10 YAC. Just average YAC.
You suggested that this entire issue was mostly on him. That’s ridiculous for a lot of reasons.
This has nothing to do with completion %. This has everything to do with players making plays with the ball. Your suggestion would mean that Winston basically had the worst short yardage accuracy of all time and left 1000 yards on the field because of it. That all the Bucs screen plays / slants / etc that were stopped after the catch were all on him not putting the ball in a place where the WR could catch it in stride.
That’s not really been his issue at all. His biggest inaccuracies are on deep balls and straight up missing WRs and it’s documented. He has soft touch on screens and hits slants in strides as good as anyone. His needle-in-traffic ability is as good as anyone’s in the league – as stated by m any who study his film. His accuracy in the short and intermediate game has been just fine in terms of where he hits the WR when completing passes. I seriously don’t recall all these plays (not even a single one honestly) where I thought “oh man if only Winston hit that screen or slant better it would have blown up for a big play”
The issue was he had no help from any play makers. Why do you think Koetter even during last year was saying they need to add speed and players who can take a 5 yard pass and break an explosive play? All offseason they knew they needed help for Winston and emphasized it. Not because he’s inaccurate. But because we had the worst YAC in the league and couldn’t generate explosive plays.
Koetter himself has said numerous times his offense is not designed for high completion %. It’s not an offense designed for 65%+ completion. During his first 4 years with Matt Ryan; these were Ryan’s completion %: 61.1 / 58.3 / 62.5 / 61.3.
July 14th, 2017 at 5:06 pm
@NFLnut-we will see, as he has plenty of weapons going into 2017, if he has all these weapons and is still at 60% and overthrowing/underthrowing guys and turning the ball over at an alarming rate whats the excuse then?
If your qb needs 5 all pros wrs, a perfect o line and an all pro RB he’s probably not a franchise guy, I don’t think that’s the case. But I think year 3 will tell us all we need to know about Jameis. Should be fun
July 14th, 2017 at 5:11 pm
“And NO Jameis cannot win a Super Bowl right now, when Flacco and Eli went on their runs they protected the football in the postseason something Jameis has yet to master”
lol wtf. Comon man. Flacco before his postseason run had been sh1t compared to Winston. Eli Manning is the definition of a mediocre QB who turns the ball over a lot in his career.
Eli Manning averages 25 TDs to 17 Ints over a season for his career per-game average… Winston already turns the ball over less per game than Eli Manning does.
If you’re trying to just point at just the playoff run or a series of games; Winston has also shown he can get hot and not turn it over for a while:
After the Denver game last year he went on a stretch of 9 games where he had a grand total of 4 interceptions; and never tossed more than 1 in a single game. He threw 15 Tds in that time as well. So yes – he has shown he can be safe with the football.
His freshman year at FSU he was at 70% completion and 40 TDs to 10 Ints. The evidence is out there.
July 14th, 2017 at 5:16 pm
@ STud
The only excuse I’ll give is if the O-line is terrible and I don’t think they will be.
“If your qb needs 5 all pros wrs, a perfect o line and an all pro RB he’s probably not a franchise guy, I don’t think that’s the case.”
Well he didn’t have any of that last year and put up solid #s… I don’t think anyone is saying he needs all of that and he won’t have it. The line will likely be average at best since they were bad last year. His RB stable will probably be average at best.
Adam Humphries and Cam Brate are cool stories but it’s not unlikely those guys never become anything on any other roster. Neither were drafted and neither has much in terms of a highlight reel even with their stats. Brate is great at catching the ball but he doesn’t make it easy in terms of the window that you have to throw it into based on his inability to break away from defenders or use much in terms of size.
July 14th, 2017 at 5:45 pm
@ NFLNUT
Gosh, I am so glad you are on this site…because MOST of these Monday night QB’s and COUCH pro players are just like the average talking heads who lose the actual FACTS and insert their unsubstantiated OPINIONS!
THANK YOU for the FACTS!
Jameis isn’t perfect but he is better than some give him credit…
Is Jameis inaccurate or the route has been compromised…you don’t get that kind of info from your couch…JW doesn’t put his teammates on blast he just keeps on grinding…Like I’ve said before Jameis was smoking as a freshman with a talented offense and has not had that level of talent since..yet he still performs maybe not to some expectations🤔I still say JUST WAIT FOR IT!☠
July 14th, 2017 at 7:38 pm
This thread has some great posts in it and is now a great read for anyone who happens upon it.
Nole4JabooANDBucs … thanks for the love bro. Common sense is rare these days and the talking heads on TV and the radio use generalizations and lazy analysis 99% of the time it seems to me and that irks me as those goofs are PAID to know their stuff and do their research and yet they don’t.
Looking at a stat sheet and saying, “Jameis is inaccurate” is just such a lazy comment. Yet if some talking head were to say that, no other talking head will challenge that statement, and why? Because they don’t do their research and don’t know what they’re doing! It drives me nuts!
July 16th, 2017 at 11:36 pm
Blah blah blah stats blah blah😐Work hard, play better. My money is on Jameis to do just that!