Tanking Is Good
June 21st, 2017
It seems tanking is suddenly an issue in the NFL.
Given how the Jets had a fire sale and went hell-bent on acquiring the first pick in the 2018 draft by signing Wrongo Starr, and last year the Browns publicly admitted they were not concerned about winning, some believe the NFL should step in and institute a dumb draft lottery system like the non-basketball association.
To rip off anything from that outfit would be the worst thing in the world!
Yes, teams tank to get better draft picks (read: quarterbacks). Hell, the Bucs mailed it in during the second half of the 2014 finale to win the Chase for Jameis, losing 23-20.
How inept were the Bucs then under lazy Lovie Smith? They almost screwed that up, nearly winning with the likes of Lavonte David being benched (thank you Tavarres King, for that franchise-changing bobble in the fourth quarter at midfield, where the football fell into the hands of Saints defender Keenan Lewis for a pick that stifled what looked to have been a potential scoring drive).
And Joe has zero problem with this tanking stuff. At all.
While this theory of tanking is not popular at all in NFL locker rooms, nor is it spoken in positive tones in coaches’ offices, smart NFL suits welcome this practice. If you are not going to play for a playoff or a Super Bowl bid, then play for draft picks and lose, lose, lose.
For Bucs fans outraged at this thought, a bit of a history lesson. In 2006, the Bucs entered Week 16 with three wins. They won that week but lost in such a huge way it may have been the beginning of the end for Chucky.
Winning that useless game pushed the Bucs to the fourth pick in the draft. Tampa Bay finished with a 4-12 record and lost to the 4-12 Browns in a coin flip, meaning the top three picks were held by Oakland, Detroit and Cleveland. Two of the top players in the draft just happened to have been at positions the Bucs desperately needed, wide receiver (Calvin Johnson) and left tackle (Joe Thomas).
The Bucs had to sweat hoping either the Lions or Browns lost their minds and passed on Johnson or Thomas.
That didn’t happen and the Bucs, with Johnson and Thomas off the board, reached for what turned out to be a walking corpse, defensive end Gaines Adams (who, after Chucky was fired, former Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik shipped to Chicago for a second round pick, robbing lazy Lovie Smith blind).
So for those who believe winning at all costs is the way to go, see if you can name the opponent the Bucs beat in such a vaunted victory that it cost the Bucs a chance to draft a Hall of Fame player. (Yes, Joe knows the answer). Just thinking about that makes Joe sick.
So if an NFL team doesn’t have a shot of making a playoff push, Joe has zero issue with the team instead playing for the draft and getting young guys valuable playing time — and to hell with wins. The future for middling teams is what is important, not some five- or six-win season, or worse, blowing a chance at drafting a guy who could start for your team for a decade or more.
June 21st, 2017 at 8:05 am
Most do not realize how bad it looks for a team to have the #1 overall draft pick!!! To be the worst in the league!!!!! That is why I am proposing the when a team is “awarded” the #1 overall draft pick, the Head Coach and GM contract become voidable, and all tickets are reduced by 10%!!!!!!!
June 21st, 2017 at 8:15 am
At the end of the day, Sam Wyche and Lovie Smith helped this franchise get out of laughing stock status for that I’m grateful.
We are about to go to our second Super Bowl with a FRANCHISE QB in a BAD A$$ TEAM that is focus on the trophy. It can’t get any better than that!!!
Thanks Lovie!!!!
It’s all about the future.
Go Bucs!!!
June 21st, 2017 at 8:23 am
As a Philly native, all I have to say is TRUST THE PROCESS!
June 21st, 2017 at 8:37 am
Lev,agreed..
June 21st, 2017 at 8:39 am
The problem I have with going the route of the NBA and NHL with a Draft Lottery is the fact that both of those “lotteries” are 100% pre-determined. Any argument otherwise will be dismissed by me. There’s so much circumstantial evidence for collusion by those league’s to provide the top picks to whom they want to have them that it’s laughable.
The NFL Draft also provides so much more talent throughout it’s draft, leave the draft the way it is, if a team “tanks” for a higher pick and they select Tim Couch instead of Donovan McNabb then they get what they deserve. LOL @ them.
June 21st, 2017 at 8:42 am
It makes sense to me to tank for the obvious reasons of getting a higher draft slot and sometimes getting last place in a division for an easier schedule. If you think about it, a team in that situation does not have to try to hard to lose seeing as they obviously sucked to be in that position to begin with.
On the flip side, teams that have locked up home field advantage in the post season also often rest starters and do not necessarily care about the result of the final regular season game. I think this is the more damaging to playoff races though because lets just say your team is in a tie breaker situation and needs a team playing against a #1 seed to lose. In this case, they may win because the #1 seed plays back ups.
Bottom line is that the Bucs need to control their own destiny and win the NFC South and hopefully we won’t ever have to be in a situation of being tempted to tank for draft position again.
June 21st, 2017 at 9:00 am
This issue is more complicated than just saying its ok for a team to tank. As soon as you collect money from 10s of thousands and then purposefully alter the outcome of the game, then there is a element of shadiness that isnt right. Kinda like collecting full value for preseason tickets, only worse.
June 21st, 2017 at 9:02 am
The last thing I want is the NFL in charge of a “lottery”.
June 21st, 2017 at 9:07 am
Joe– Isn’t calling Gaines “a walking corpse” a bit harsh? He wasn’t the best player but the poor guy died…
June 21st, 2017 at 9:13 am
If a team were to let it be known that that they were going to tank the upcoming season, kinda like the Jets are about to do, imagine how difficult it must be for the people selling tickets!
June 21st, 2017 at 9:20 am
Joe seriously walking corpse to describe Gaines adams?
June 21st, 2017 at 9:21 am
It has been proven that lovie is just a bad coach, our team needed a quarterback and there were two at the top of the draft in terms of talent, how much credit can you get for talent mm or jw. They were a bad team and tanked the last few games NOT the season, no one has a problem with pulling starters in the last game of a losing season
Now you could definitely say he intended to tank the season by signing mclown though
June 21st, 2017 at 9:24 am
If there’s anything worse than losing, and as a Bucs fan I know plenty about losing, there’s losing on purpose. It flies in the face of fans that you simply don’t care.
You can couch it how you want; “We got Jameis”, for instance. But what does it say about a team that is in the spot to begin with. You don’t happen upon being 2-14 or 3-13 just being minus that franchise guy. You get there through years of neglect and poor decision making and at the cost of paying fans.
This franchise probably still made money over the last decade but not nearly as much as when they gave a crap about the fans and winning games.
I may be in the minority here, but it disgusts me to know that well-paid athletes and franchises exercise this practice. Regardless that they landed Jameis, it’s a stain on a franchise that has more stains than a pizza parlor chef’s apron! We’re supposed to be excited that our team sucks so bad that we were in line for the #1 pick?!
We need to start expecting more. Losing is NOT OK!
June 21st, 2017 at 9:27 am
While I’m on a rant, does anyone believe for a minute that New England would do the same?
Me thinks not!
June 21st, 2017 at 9:29 am
There’s tanking by the management/coaches and tanking by the players.
I have trouble swallowing tanking but understand its value for management/coaches.
And so if they “tank” it by playing 3rd stringers and calling bad plays that’s one thing. But I do not want the players pulling back or holding up. ALL players should give 100% to the end.
I wanted to puke when Brett Favre gave Michael Strahan one of his record setting sacks.
I do not like tanking and we were so inept of a franchise/team/HC/players at the time that we couldn’t even pull off a classy tanking. Why did we even show up?
Just call it in. If we had planned a lot better we could have made that tank a lot more palatable rather than the blatant move it clearly was for the Bucs.
Again I get the concept but for heaven’s sake at least do a better job than the WWE at selling an “effort”.
June 21st, 2017 at 9:37 am
@Q Joe’s lack of sensitivity and respect for Adams is well-documented
You can trash Joe’s somewhat insensitive comment. Joe gets that. But Adams admitted publicly to not putting in the work as a Buccaneer. (link here) https://www.joebucsfan.com/2009/06/squat-free-doesnt-cut-it-anymore/ … And on top of that, he wasn’t good. Don’t ask Joe to respect that. –Joe
June 21st, 2017 at 9:38 am
No idea why people bash the NBA. It’s more exciting than Hockey and Baseball and ratings prove that.
As for tanking, in the NBA, ONE player makes all the difference in the world. Look no further than Jordan, Magic, Bird, LeBron and Durant. In football, the only guy that comes close to that kind of impact is the QB and there are only so many of those guys around so yeah…if I saw a franchise QB at the top of the draft, I would tank to get him. That being said, to pollute the draft with a lottery would only make your fan base extremely mad.
June 21st, 2017 at 9:40 am
Gaines Adams was a horrible pick but to describe him as a corpse is pretty low brow Joe…you guys are better than that
June 21st, 2017 at 9:43 am
Buc50
Spot on. In basketball it’s just five guys and one or two superstars really tilt the balance. Football just has too many players except as you point out the elusive franchise QB’s.
The year the Buc’s tanked was pretty unusual…happens occasionally but certainly not every year…..Not one but TWO QB’s were both labeled can’t miss franchise QB’s to build the future around. Has there been one QB since our draft nearly as good as #3 or Mariota. Tanking that year pretty much guaranteed a franchise QB…as Joe has been preaching…what else could we do?
June 21st, 2017 at 9:51 am
Why is he now being called lazy Lovie Smith? He had a bad record here but I don’t recall hearing about Lovie Smith skipping out of running practice or performing his duties in favor of play golf or doing something else.
I don’t recall Lovie Smith being the GM of the Chicago Bears in 2009. I’m pretty sure it was Jerry Angelo. Let’s not pump up “Rock Star” too much here. After all, Dominik used that pick in conjunction with another draft pick to take Arrelious Bend-around while passing on Rob Gronkowski.
June 21st, 2017 at 9:59 am
@Stpete-
“Tanking that year pretty much guaranteed a franchise QB…as Joe has been preaching…what else could we do?”
In hindsight, sure. But how could we possibly know that he wouldn’t be the next Ryan Leaf? There’s ZERO guarantee that it works out.
I can’t stand the practice and no fan should have to stand for it. I mean, do I get a refund on my tickets or the numerous crappy beers I bought while watching a floundering garbage product on the field? I’m supposed to be happy because we landed Jameis as a result? Is Jameis going to pay me back? Um, no, and I’m not like the Geico commercial where I have money dripping off of me.
Again, I may be the minority, but this offends me as a fan.
June 21st, 2017 at 9:59 am
Now that we see the true Jameis not the one the media was trying to make money of by creating question marks on his character and make him a villain with speculations. We can understand Licht’s point of view:
To improve this team by adding a franchise QB.
I don’t think they were planning to tank the season in September. But when it was obvious the opportunity of having Winston at #1 they could not let that get away. And lets get real here people their decisions automatically benefits the fan too. Thinking about getting the right players for a Super Bowl win it benefits the fans too
I don’t know about you but we are in heading in the right direction. Not everything is black and white. In Licht I trust!
June 21st, 2017 at 10:01 am
Everyone on this site loves it when the Bucs win Meaningless games. Last year was a perfect example. No way we were winning the Super Bowl. Yet everyone was pushing for us to win games that didn’t mean anything. No point… 7-9 would have put us in a prime spot for DE Derek Barnett or S Malik Hooker. We’ve done it for years. We’ve always missed out HOF players. We were forced to take Broderick Thomas…Charles McRae.. Eric Curry.. etc etc
Oh, stop. Bucs still would have drafted Howard, even if they finished 8-8.–Joe
June 21st, 2017 at 10:03 am
The Buc Realist Says
“Most do not realize how bad it looks for a team to have the #1 overall draft pick!!! To be the worst in the league!!!!!”
Oh please! If they are bad enough to have to first pick, then it is likely they have been bad for more than just that year and already look bad.
I see nothing wrong with tanking if it means getting a player that can lift a team from mediocrity. The idea of the current system is to give bad teams a chance to become competitive.
Go to a lottery and it will become all about only the best teams staying the best.
Watch NFL ratings plummet when fans of bad teams realize the draft system is structured to keep their teams bad.
A lottery is a horrible, destructive idea.
June 21st, 2017 at 10:09 am
@R.O.- Do you go to games? How would you feel about that after shelling out a couple $100’s for tickets, $20 for parking, and $50(?!) on ‘beverages’ on the last couple of games. Screw that! And to heck with that mindset!
You don’t play football games in hopes of landing a future HOF’er. You play games to win. PERIOD!!!!
June 21st, 2017 at 10:52 am
@ro We’ve always missed out HOF players.
Brooks, Sapp, Selmon Are you too young to remember?
@ Bucsfanman
Welcome to a deeper understanding of your investment. GM and HC job is not all about your current satisfaction in the moment only but to create the best team possible while going through the ups and downs of the NFL. Don’t let money dictate your emotions. What might be logical to a fan might not be to a GM or Coach. We all have different perspective and information to take action from in a way we see appropriate. They have so much more information than a fan does.
Enjoy your new buccaneer team. Your suffering is just a misunderstanding of the gift that is coming to you! We are going to Minnesota next February!!!
Go Bucs!!!
June 21st, 2017 at 11:03 am
I rip Mark Dominik at every opportunity but fleecing Chicago for a 2nd round pick for Gaines Adams was sheer brilliance.
Then again, seeing how the Bears have been running their franchise it does come off as dunking on the Down’s Syndrome kid when playing one on one.
June 21st, 2017 at 11:04 am
@RayJameisStadium- It’s not the immediate satisfaction or current state of the team that drives my frustration. Sure, in the case of 2014 it might seem the “sacrificial lamb”. But what of 2013, 12, 11….? It wasn’t the 1st time I shelled out hard-earned money to watch an absolute garbage product and it certainly doesn’t justify tanking for Jameis.
The GM, coach, and franchise’s logic is completely faulty if it believes that anything short of winning is the ultimate goal.
I am very excited about our new Bucs, but make no mistake about it, tanking is NOT OK.
I am confident that we will no longer be in a position to land a top 5 draft pick.
June 21st, 2017 at 11:10 am
@Bucsfanman I got you. It is a lot of money to spend. I understand your frustration. I’m glad those years are over too.
June 21st, 2017 at 11:16 am
@Bucsfanman I remember thinking back then 2013, 2014, 2015 season ticket holders deserve some kind of refund for your support. It was not entertainment being offer to us back then. I’m with you!
June 21st, 2017 at 11:27 am
I don’t believe the Bucs were tanking under Lovie Smith. The fact is the Bucs sucks as a franchise, and they have for years. All-Time record 250-393-1, with 6 playoff wins in 41 seasons. The word is Pathetic, not tanking.
June 21st, 2017 at 11:28 am
“Lazy” is a code word used by “Racist Fans!!
Pretty rough and unfair blanket statement there.–Joe
June 21st, 2017 at 11:30 am
Amen brother! I’m not a season ticket holder but I would be irate to say the least forking over that kind of money. I’m a 1-3 game goer myself. Which is still a little loot!
Like you said, I’m glad that’s seemingly over.
June 21st, 2017 at 11:45 am
Except…if knowing tanking those 1-3 games would mean assuring us of getting a franchise QB who would lift us up into contender status after ten years of losing anyway?
Tank away.
June 21st, 2017 at 11:48 am
I don’t think the Bucs tanked the 2nd half of the season as much as they tanked the last game of the season.
I was all for it. 2 vs 3 wins is the epitome of a meaningless win and losing set us up to take something this franchise has never had and sets us up for winning for years.
Last year I was all for winning the last game. This team needed a moral boost and it’s been 5 years since we’d had a winning season. It’d have sucked to go out on a 3 game losing streak. Instead we went out sweeping the Panthers and can say we finished as winners with a 6-2 record the last 8 games. I honestly believe that it was big for the morale going into the offseason.
And hell we got OJ Howard! He’s the guy I would have taken anyway if we had the Panthers pick. To get him at 19 is still insane. Dude was a top 5 talent in this draft imo
June 21st, 2017 at 12:01 pm
Most have to admit that the lazy tanking coach my scheme defense in 2014 actually looked the same as the lazy trying coach my scheme defense in 2015!!!!!!!
I am glad that they pulled a couple of players in the last game of 2014 against a team that was not even trying!!!!! LOL!!!! What a disaster that coach was!!!!!!
June 21st, 2017 at 12:02 pm
How could we “KNOW” that Jameis wasn’t Ryan Leaf?! This is what I mean! You guys that claim to have “known” that Jameis was going to be a franchise QB need to give those lotto numbers because it’s more like 50/50 with draft picks.
We took a gamble.
June 21st, 2017 at 12:14 pm
There was still a 1st ballot HOFer on the board when the Bucs took Gaines Adams with the 4th pick. AP was chosen 3 picks later by Minnesota. We had Cadillac at the time but it just goes to show how important drafting BPA with a high pick can be vs reaching for “need”. In Oct of that same year Cadillac blew up his knee – was out for the season and was never the same runner again. 2007 was a playoff year for the Bucs but they were one and done and its certainly possible that rookie AP who ran for 1341 yards with 12 TDS that year would have been a difference maker for the Bucs in the playoffs.
June 21st, 2017 at 1:41 pm
Up from da cellar..Lovie arises again!
June 21st, 2017 at 2:53 pm
@mike johnson
Some say he never rose!!! He just shouted from the cellar the whole time!!!!!
June 21st, 2017 at 3:32 pm
Tanking and confidence building are 2 different things. I’m extremely happy we lost the last game to have the opportunity to draft Jameis and also glad that we won the last game last year so that we build confidence for this year. I spent money on games too but I don’t let my pocket dictate what should be common sense if you want a successful franchise.
June 21st, 2017 at 3:41 pm
Wow! Really,”walking corpse”? Not punny at all. Agree with everyone else who’ve said that’s a low blow.
June 21st, 2017 at 3:50 pm
“I spent money on games too but I don’t let my pocket dictate what should be common sense if you want a successful franchise.”
Are you kidding? That’s OUR definition of how to run a common sense, successful franchise? It’s not draft well, bring in quality free-agents and support the team through good coaching from sound fundamental football people?
They should be arrested for putting the product they have on the field over the last ten years. I just don’t get this rationale.
In pure hindsight we are all Nostradamus! Jameis worked out. What about the other 7 (ish) seasons?!
June 21st, 2017 at 4:16 pm
“Draft well”…hello Winston
“bring in quality free-agents’…hello D-Jax after winning the last game last year
Both prove my point
June 21st, 2017 at 7:37 pm
Whoever wrote this article a classless p.o.s
June 21st, 2017 at 8:37 pm
Lol walking corpse classic, keep that comedy up.
June 21st, 2017 at 11:43 pm
Lovie gave everything he had and the league laughed him right out of a job. Pathetic times
June 21st, 2017 at 11:49 pm
No one’s more racist on here than the Big Hog. Non-stop crying
June 22nd, 2017 at 7:49 am
@Buc50- That’s NOW. What about the last decade? Or, do you just want to keep your head in the sand?! Yeah, FINALLY, the franchise has started the process of fundamental franchise building.
Oh, and drafting Winston? Man, you better not screw up the 1st OVERALL pick!
Sorry, I just completely disagree with tanking. It just flat out means that you suck and don’t give a rat’s a$$ about the fans!