Jameis’ Pleas Raise Questions
June 17th, 2017
Intrigue.
Things are starting to get interesting.
When Joe was listening to the Thursday recording of Tallahassee sports radio icon Jeff Cameron interview America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston, Joe’s jaw hit the floor.
And no, it wasn’t because Joe was also staring at his Rachel Watson Fathead poster on the wall.
Jameis explained on ESPN Tallahassee how he “was lobbying hard” for Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht to draft his former teammate at Florida State, star running back Dalvin Cook.
Well, we know that didn’t happen.
Now when Joe tries to analyze players, the first thing Joe does is strip off the name and any college allegiance. Those things just muddy the waters and cloud the view. So let’s forget who Jameis wanted the Bucs to draft but focus on what position Jameis wanted the Bucs to draft.
So Jameis wanted a running back in the first round, eh?
Jameis is hardly the only person who had that desire for the Bucs in the first round, or who thought running back was a critical position of need. But this is coming from the franchise quarterback, the face of the franchise, the guy the team is literally building a roster around to guide the Bucs’ pirate ship back to playoff waters.
Let’s think about this for a moment.
There is the loud rabble that also happens to kneel at the altar of the PFF tribe, which recites its chants that the Bucs’ offensive line is horrible and Donovan Smith is no less than Lucifer upon earth.
Jameis, who would be effected most by a shaky offensive line, didn’t see the need for the Bucs to draft an offensive lineman in the first round.
Virtually any quarterback, given his druthers, would want a team to draft a receiver in the first round. Yes, the Bucs added DeSean Jackson, but you cannot tell Joe a gunslinger like Jameis wouldn’t be giddy with a receiver drafted in the first round as well.
Jameis didn’t see the need for the Bucs to draft a receiver the first round.
The Bucs need an edge rusher on defense (still) and while Jameis and Noah Spence are tight, Spence is somewhat yet unproven. But there is a lot of hope (uh, oh) and some evidence that he can perform; the arrow is pointing up for Spence. If Bucs suits, coaches and fans can see the Bucs still need help in rushing the passer, then you better believe so can Jameis.
And if you think Jameis wanted Dalvin Cook just because they were teammates, another Jameis college teammate, defensive end DeMarcus Walker, who by all accounts has the same fierce work ethic and football drive as Jameis, was out there for the taking. But Jameis didn’t see the need for the Bucs to draft a pass rusher in the first round.
What position did Jameis think the Bucs needed the most in the first round? A running back.
Which brings Joe to Doug Martin.
Nothing would please Joe more than if Martin was fully healthy, beat whatever demons he is battling and ran for 1,500 yards when he returns after serving his three-game suspension to open the regular season. That’s the hope, which often is a four-letter word.
The brutal, ugly truth i, in Martin’s five-year NFL career he has very much been a boom or bust kind of guy — dominant in his good years and godawful in the bad ones. Three of those five years have been horrid and that’s before he flunked a whiz quiz and was unavailable when the Bucs were making a playoff push last season (including a healthy scratch in a game with a potential playoff berth on the line).
As a result, Martin sought treatment to help fight his demons.
If you strip the name “Martin” away from the discussion and just look at history and the black-and-white numbers, clear-minded people would at least give pause, especially when factoring in his hefty $5.7 million salary for 2017.
Quite a few folks believe Martin is a lock to return to the Bucs after his suspension. At this point in June, that’s strictly a hunch or worse, that four-letter word, hope. The Bucs have given zero indications any decision on Martin’s future has been made.
In a perfect world, Martin checks all the boxes between now and October and is a total beast in 2017.
But if the inner sanctum of the Bucs was so certain and confident Martin is the critical cog in the Bucs’ backfield this fall, why was it that The Franchise, by his own admission, was beating on the general manager’s desk begging him to draft a running back in the first round?
Joe will let his readers draw their own conclusions.
June 17th, 2017 at 12:30 am
Dumb stuff:
Because Jameis is a shameless homer for FSU, and Dalvin Cook is his budy. Simple as that.
No mystery here.
June 17th, 2017 at 12:34 am
bucs_365:
So, again, why was Jameis not lobbying for DeMarcus Walker if it was just about an FSU allegiance?
Don’t recall any stories or articles where Jameis and Dalvin Cook are “buddies” outside of one season playing together. Didn’t ever see them together in any social media posting.
June 17th, 2017 at 12:36 am
Man, yet another Alex Jones-esqe reach! It just couldn’t be as simple as Jameis wanting the FSU crowd to know that he supported drafting Dalvin Cook? Maybe he wasn’t literally “…beating on the…desk begging…” for a running back. Winston is a quarterback not a politician or journalist. Perhaps he hasn’t learned the media twists words to suit their own purposes.
June 17th, 2017 at 12:40 am
Buccaneer Bill:
Feel free to explain in great detail how Joe is twisting those words, straight from Jameis’ mouth.
June 17th, 2017 at 12:49 am
Jamies:
“You know, I was lobbying hard, but the thing is about the draft, I never have the final say so, you know. And I trust those guys upstairs; O. J. [Howard] was a great pick for us.”
That isn’t the same in tone or meaning as, JOE:
“But if the inner sanctum of the Bucs was so certain and confident Martin will be a critical cog in the Bucs’ backfield this fall, why is it that The Franchise, by his own admission, was beating on the general manager’s desk begging him to draft a running back in the first round?”
By the way, both quotes are from your site, which I mostly enjoy.
June 17th, 2017 at 12:59 am
I think they should have made that trade with the 49ers and traded down for more picks. Nothing against O.J.Howard, but this draft was loaded with good, quality players in the first 3 rounds. TE wasn’t that big of a need for us, we still have a lot of needs. Just my opinion, we all have one.
June 17th, 2017 at 2:14 am
Joe must’ve been drinkin too much this Friday night, and is having serious withdraws/flashbacks from the ‘dreaded’ draft this spring that didn’t happen to include God-sent Dalvin. Let it go, Joe. Dalvin Cook was a suspect prospect (both physically and mentally speaking), despite his natural talent. If Licht, or any GM for that matter, was to run their franchise based on what strictly the QB wanted, then it would lead to disaster. JW3 was apparently lobbying for Peterson as well, but I don’t see a long form sob story about that either. Jameis is clearly a homer, and there is no shame in that. Just look at the extra time he is putting in with BoBo, an undrafted player. BTW, I agree with Buccanneer Bill. There is a clear difference between “lobbying hard” and apparently “banging on the desk” and “begging” Licht to pull the trigger on Cook.
June 17th, 2017 at 2:17 am
the alex jones of bucs media 😂😂😂😂
June 17th, 2017 at 2:47 am
Dalvin in the second round? No. Cook had bad company around him and that means they are potentially be around The Franchise. No. Pass on cook. Do u really expect Jameis to the media say not to draft him? I’ll take martin
June 17th, 2017 at 3:13 am
OK, so here’s my take. Yes, so Jameis thought Cook was a special prospect, and I agree. I have detailed this 1000 times. You don’t pass on a prospect like Howard. When the pads get on, his package will be revealed. HIs speed/size/catch radius is crazy.
Want to improve the O-line, you just did.
Want to improve the running game, you just did.
Red zone efficiency,
First downs
Time of possession, you just did
From a tight end that may last for as long or longer than Jameis plays football. The Vikings will have three more running backs by the time Howard retires.
I believe unequivocally that the Bucs were positioning themselves to trade down until Howard was available. Howard was such a high grade on the board, they had to take him. If a player falls to you 14 slots lower than you project, in the first round, you draft him. Licht has done a really job at the draft. I trust him.
Jameis may have wanted Dalvin, but in three years he will covet Howard.
June 17th, 2017 at 5:00 am
If ALL the media was as sincere as Alex Jones, the world would be a better place imho … that is a “real” dude!
June 17th, 2017 at 5:01 am
As for Jameis … he know talent and Cook has a ton … wanting the Bucs to draft him does not also automatically mean he wants the Bucs to dump Martin …
June 17th, 2017 at 5:38 am
If we had drafted Ezekiel Elliott last year, I bet Jameis still would have lobbied for Cook this year.
June 17th, 2017 at 6:36 am
Is June people give Joe a brake!!!!!
Keep them coming Joe!!!!
Go Bucs!!!
Cook = baggage = Bucs pass
June 17th, 2017 at 7:16 am
I’d expect Jameis to pay a compliment to his former team mate and buddy from FSU along the lines of “Dang, too bad we don’t have him.” Jameis is also a player entering his third year who has a lot to learn about playing and leading a football team (and doing a great job so far), much less running a football team. No big deal. But seeing the headline was a good head fake, because this turned out to be another anti-Martin article. Wow, there’s a suprise. But I digress. So “The Franchise” Jameis also made some pretty stupid calls in his young and learning life, understandably, so no one should start to think of him as this amazing GM-like mind. I think most knew we needed another WR and DE, and Joe has dutifully said it over and over. Oh, and Jameis was ecstatic about Aguayo being drafted too. How’s that working out so far? Jameis was all in for the also-poor thinking young man who abused animals and got himself into a battery situation (which he was found not guilty, for the record) but like Jameis, probably should have thought things through a lot better without the cops and investigators having to do it for him. It is a blessing we didnt’ draft the Junior Mike Vick-Like Cook…a dog abuser/murderer. I’ll bet if Joe or someone else sat with Jameis and said tell me about Doug Martin, he’d gush over him too. I think much of it is the media (pick ’em) doesn’t like Martin because he doesn’t particularly like talking to ANY of the media. I don’t blame him. He’s not a fun interview, never has been. He’s a quiet guy in general. Such silly talk. Joe would never evaluate a guy on the field because of what kind of media interview he does. And that’s why Joe was never a Kenny Bell guy — because Joe wasn’t moved (positively or negatively) by Bell’s impressive interview skills. And frankly, Martin is not anti-media. This is a guy who’s done the radio row circuit at the Super Bowl voluntarily. He also had his own radio show, and last year even brought television into his home for a more personal look. Get your facts straight. –Joe
Oh, that includes his two great years, and also includes two of his three horrible years when he was on IR (bummer) for two of them (just the facts, Ma’am) but has still managed to turn in 4.2 ypc for his career (just the facts again, Ma’am). Go figure. Were I a bettin’ man, I’d think we won’t see any more problems from Martin, but bet within two years Cook is a the news for the wrong reasons. But I don’t care about Cook…but thank God Jason didn’t draft him.
June 17th, 2017 at 7:17 am
…………….training camp can’t get here fast enough for Joe to stop over analyzing stuff.
June 17th, 2017 at 7:21 am
I hope Doug doesn’t read this article! Lol!
June 17th, 2017 at 7:22 am
Don’t know how in the world you can write this piece without mentioning “baggage” or something similar.
June 17th, 2017 at 7:24 am
Cook has a long history with the law for such a short life so far. Robbery, damaging property, assault, firing a weapon illegally, possessing a weapon on school property. To be fair, in most of the cases above (except for the dog abuse) he either was found not guilty or charges, for whatever reason were dropped. While I totally agree innocent til proven guilty, and folks do dumb things, Cook has a lot of experience being sought by police. Plus he’s damaged goods. I’ll take who we picked in the draft any day. Thanks Jameis for your opinion. See if you straighten out your other buddy, Aguayo. Leave the GMing to the pros.
June 17th, 2017 at 7:27 am
While Martin is a beast when healthy,agree with Joe betting on Martin’s
health is risky business.That said if Bucs see something in him still I will support him 100%.
Now there is a reason the patriots keep getting in the superbowl,and I believe its because they have a great tight end, good receiver complements, and Brady.But they have never, to my knowledge drafted a first round running back
during the belicek years.But they usually have at least big bruising back and a
good receiving back.
Believe the Jason Licht model is similar and we are not counting on just one back to avoid injury and have a stellar season.
Agree completely with Tnew’s take above in addition to Koetter’s penchant for utilizing tight ends in his offense.
June 17th, 2017 at 7:38 am
Lotta Gators on the board today.
First, the Cook/”law trouble” is such an overblown bunch of nega-hype
Second, the Cook/Walker comparison is a huge false equivalence. Walker was great in college, but not on the level of Dalvin. Dalvin is the best FSU has ever had at his position (edging out Dunn), whereas Walker was the best on the team at the time, but definitely not the best in school history. Also, Walker’s pro chances are less secure than Dalvin’s because of his size. I still think he’ll have success, but not quite the breakout success that can come with a Cook type player.
Third, by all accounts (depending on where you get your news) the Bucs were all about Dalvin until it became apparent that Howard would still be available.
So, it’s not like Jameis was begging for a fourth round talent in the first round—Cook is a great player, and my only fear is that we will see that for ourselves come September 24th.
June 17th, 2017 at 7:54 am
I feel like someone needs to sit Joe down and explain to him in a soft childlike voice that Doug Martin is gonna be our starting running back in 2017 and everything is still gonna be ok
June 17th, 2017 at 7:54 am
In a perfect world, Martin checks all the boxes between now and October and is a total beast in 2017.
In a perfect world from Doug’s perspective perhaps…I like Doug and hope he plays well…somewhere else…not because I’m angry with the Molly…
In a PERFECT word McNichols is the real deal and Quizz plays well rendering Doug extra. We can move on with our future team, not yesterday’s team.
But certainly if McNichols is not what they hoped for or simply isn’t ready then by all means spend 5 million if Doug can return to form. It’s just business.
June 17th, 2017 at 7:56 am
Reading a little deep between the lines here I see
June 17th, 2017 at 8:02 am
So Jameis is supporting Martin as teammate and lobbying for him to be replaced at same time… really Joe.. Jameis was just trying to help out an ex teammate (Cook)
Again…If Martin continues to impress, he will be on the team week 4,
If not he’ll be cut, simple as that, regardless of what you think about his past problems, he is most talented rb on roster
June 17th, 2017 at 8:17 am
That was then, this is now. Jason Licht seems to think he has the Doug Martin of 2015 back and is optimistic about his return. His assessment of Doug’s on-field improvement was glowing. Yes, after the head coach (and most other clear thinking people) have said running back assessment in underwear football is the equivalent of grading a no-defense, lay-up drill on the basketball court.–Joe
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30000815801/article/bucs-gm-licht-doug-martin-looks-like-2015-doug-martin
June 17th, 2017 at 8:21 am
Blame ASJ lol, if he works out liked the Bucs hoped then Howard is not the pick. One of Jameis’s strengths is throwing to the TE.
June 17th, 2017 at 8:34 am
Frankly, Jameis hasn’t won or really accomplished anything yet. If he had accomplished what Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, or even Russell Wilson, it might be more debatable. But Licht is responsible to build the personnel on this team, with the help of the HC. And their jobs are on the line for that. It is this simple…they are listening, Jameis…but win a few playoff games or a SB’s, and your influence will continue to increase.
June 17th, 2017 at 8:39 am
No questions were raised. He is the QB. Licht is the GM. Kotter is the coach. The Glazers own the team. Who the hell cares what he thinks? Licht, Kotter and the Glazers run the team. He has one job. QB. If they want your wanted his opinion I am sure they would have asked for it. If they did then his input is fine.
June 17th, 2017 at 8:46 am
Thank you, Joe. The equation is simple: Koetter benches disappointing, drug-riddled Martin vs. New Orleans in biggest game of the year, so the franchise QB recognizes the greatest need and wants the best running back available in Round 1.
The only thing more clear is how naive most of these commenters are.
June 17th, 2017 at 8:47 am
^ if they wanted his —not want your
June 17th, 2017 at 8:59 am
I doubt Winston scouted all the players still available at 19. Who knew that Howard would still be there? Lobbying for Cook before the draft is one thing. Making that choice with Howard still there is something else. Winston likely spoke well of Cook’s value, but unless he was working with the scouts his Opinion when the pick was due was not worth all that much. Howard is now a Buc. Winston is happy. The coaches are happy. The management is happy. And the fans are happy.
June 17th, 2017 at 9:03 am
My only fear as well BucFamous.. That defense over there ain’t to shabby either. I’m hoping like crazy Teddy B get right,if so with that talent added to the backfield the vikes may very well be a team we bump into on more than one occasion in the up coming future.
June 17th, 2017 at 9:06 am
It gose without saying I have a watchful eye on that organization.
June 17th, 2017 at 9:29 am
Just consider…it would have been crazy for the Bucs to draft Cook there. Now if we had traded out of the first receive another high two and one next year, and used that two to draft Cook, still our own two, and had another teams first next year, it might have been a better deal than drafting Howard at 19. But other than that, forget it.
June 17th, 2017 at 9:34 am
The other side of the coin hit it on the head!!!!! by week 8, we will hear about dalvin who???? and thank goodness we upgraded the TE and weapons!!!!! JW3 is not a rookie QB that needs protection by handing it off and run play action because he cannot read a defense yet!!!!!!!!!!
you cannot take out the names or drop allegiance when speaking on “Noles radio” being a former “nole” about drafting a “nole” in the first round!!!!!
Maybe Joe should write an article about what JW3, JW3 almost gets, such as a waste of a pick for RB in the 1st round or a Indoor practice facility that is taking forever to build!!!!!!!!!!!
Go Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
June 17th, 2017 at 9:38 am
Just for fun, let’s take it one step further…if we felt Howard was a top 10 pick, that would be worth at least 1300 points….the 19th 875. So in our mind, we picked up 400 points….which is the value of our second round pick by drafting him. So Howard was worth our first and second round pick, in our mind. . Of course, if you really thought Cook would drop out of the first, the top of the second being 580, picking Cook at 19 would have been like throwing away our third and possibly our forth pick in value.
June 17th, 2017 at 9:42 am
Realist…remember the QB we passed over for the Caddy? The guy we could have gotten before the end of the first and picked up more draft picks for if we could have traded down in the first? Unless it is superman, or the second coming of AP sitting there, I don’t like picking a RB in the first….
June 17th, 2017 at 9:47 am
Truth: the Bucs have never had a dominant OL!!
June 17th, 2017 at 9:51 am
If the Bucs haven’t made a decision on Martin, then why waste player development having him run with the first team the entire spring?
June 17th, 2017 at 9:58 am
@The Other Side of the Coin, exactly. Nobody thought Howard would be there at #19. Dalvin would have been a splashy fan favorite move, but there’s a reason he fell as far as he did. I don’t think the Bucs would have picked him even if the Juice was not there. There were plenty of other talented players available outside of Dalvin. What made it more difficult to pick him was the proximity to his posse by playing in Florida. Winston is obviously going to say he lobbied hard for his college teammate and friend. Why would he publicly lobby for anyone else in the draft? He was apparently lobbying for AP too. I think we all have or at least had our doubts about Martin’s future at that point in time.
June 17th, 2017 at 9:58 am
Exactly WHAT position can be accurately assessed in no-contact underwear football?
The answer: none can.
“Underwear football” is for installing the playbook and schemes, not necessarily player evaluation. It’s about getting a mental jump-start on training camp.
That latter can’t happen without real contact. Just ask Kenny Bell.
In college teams can hit in spring ball, so players CAN be evaluated. Not the case in the NFL.
June 17th, 2017 at 9:59 am
Haynes…the more experienced the QB, the less the dominance matters. A guy like Rodgers can finesse the D enough to get himself an extra half second to seconds, and keep them off guard for the run. And even a guy with experience with good skills and tons of experience, like Brad Johnson, can get it done without it.
June 17th, 2017 at 10:02 am
@ cobraboy
there are 3 ways it could go why they would “waste player development”!!!!!!
1.) start drug martin for 13 games or until he gets hurt!!!!
2.) show case him to the league then trade him!!!!!!
3.) show the rookie how to practice and prepare, then when the RB plays well they cut drug martin before the week 4 game!!!!!
June 17th, 2017 at 10:52 am
or really accomplished anything yet. If he had accomplished what Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, or even Russell Wilson,
I simply do not get the hate for #3. Sometimes it leads to hyperbole! Such over the top statements as to be ludicrous.
Actually #3 has accomplished something. He is the first QB in NFL history to throw for more than 4,000 yards each of his first two years in league.
UH…That is something that Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, or even Russell Wilson did NOT accomplish.
June 17th, 2017 at 11:23 am
martin is simply unreliable and can not be counted. Not a single fanboy can argue otherwise. 3 out of 5 years total garbage. this team is about to embark on a special run that NO buc team in history has done and that is win consistently and contend for multiple superbowls. No dungy the clown never contended consistently he was a pretender. his career losing playoff record proves that. those glory years were a great DEFENSE on a HORRIBLE football teams that produced a pathetic two playoff wins. Jameis wants dedicated winners around him, we all know that martin, gmc and dotson are hardly winners and have all proven losing is fine with them. Jameis is the new sheriff in town thankfully. The bucs have not had a legit leader in a decade. Jason Licht, Koetter and Jameis want dedicated win at all cost football players to make up a badass team and NO ONE will every confuse gmc, martin and dotson with dedicated winners or bad asses willing to do anything to win. It’s time to wake up fanboys out with the old. gmc, martin and dotson will only hold the bucs back. get with the team and leave these mediocre losers like gmc, martin and dotson behind. they mean nothing and have WON even less than nothing.
June 17th, 2017 at 11:29 am
So agree with you, Stpete! Not only has he accomplished much in this short time, but he also displays a sense of loyalty which will always be looked upon as a positive character trait., one which many of us could benefit from!
June 17th, 2017 at 12:12 pm
St. Pete…that isn’t hate at all….if his accuracy improves a little, and consistent decision making, he can be as great as any of them.
But he is entering his third year…. and frankly, I didn’t mention Luck or many other good QB’s. Why? Because they haven’t carried the team on their back and won the big games yet. I didn’t even mention Matt Ryan for the same reason.
And honestly, if you asked Jameis, I think he would tell you he hasn’t come close to anything he wants and expects of himself in his career.
June 17th, 2017 at 12:49 pm
Here is an idea….maybe jameis was lobbying for cook because he wanted a two headed monster in the backfield with martin/cook. I guess joe forgot how jameis was praising martin during otas before the draft. I know its hard for the joes to understand, but i will try and explain it again. It is ok if you have two or more talented players at the same position (see atlanta’s backfield). No need to write another article about trading brate because oj howard was drafted. I hope this clarifies things.
June 17th, 2017 at 12:49 pm
Tmzfan.com.. am offensive player wants his team to draft an offensive player that he won a national championship with wow the horrible of imagining that those two are very close like Ken and the linebacker we drafted this year. If it’s about Martin it’s about every back on the roster and Winston. He knows Martin situation so if he is cut why wouldn’t he want cook?
June 17th, 2017 at 2:01 pm
@ tmaxcon: please list running backs in the NFL that had great seasons while hurt.
I’ll wait right here.
June 17th, 2017 at 2:03 pm
I chuckled at your suggestions. Funny stuff.
I appreciate the humor. 😀
June 17th, 2017 at 2:20 pm
Anyone remember the last game of the season in Jameis’ first year when he said as soon as players cared as much about winning as the coaches they would be a good team?
The next year when the Bucs needed Doug Martin the most, where is he? then Jameis tells the GM to draft a running back in the first round. I ain’t no detective but I can figure this out.
June 17th, 2017 at 4:35 pm
If #3 was Rodgers at the same age, he’d still be sitting on the bench …
June 17th, 2017 at 4:42 pm
Nut…that is true… but if Jameis ends up in the HOF, as Rodgers almost certainly will, I’d be as happy as anyone in the Tampa Bay area. And would you like to compare the length of careers and productivity of Caddy and Rodgers? I think I made my point.
June 17th, 2017 at 4:51 pm
Haha Jameis just being another FSU homer. Nothing to see here
June 17th, 2017 at 7:08 pm
Nflnut
Ive said it before and i will say it again, you are a nut. Alex jones lying about sandy hook did not happen. Anybody that embraces him is definitely a nut. Imagine what the fathers of the lost kids are going through. You are a nut. Happy fathers day to all the rest who love and cherish their kids/family.
June 18th, 2017 at 8:12 pm
Joe, I never said YOU about the media stuff did I? Kenny Bell? LOL! You are the one not making sense–IMHO. Fact is, Martin does have some contractual obligations to meet with the media, and I’d expect you know. Doesn’t mean he likes it. You get YOUR facts straight.
June 19th, 2017 at 12:34 am
Joe knows that and for the record, Doug Martin has always been a stand-up guy with Joe. Thing is, no player is on the roster to be a nice guy. A player is on the roster to produce and Joe never forgets that.
How a player works with the fourth estate should never factor in whether he should be on the roster. For example, there is a guy who has his name in the Ring of Honor who Joe has little use for and he was one of the most popular players in Bucs history. To be very kind, he was terribly difficult to deal with but that doesn’t nor ever will cloud the fact he was a fantastic player.
No, Joe’s not talking about Warren Sapp, who Joe gets along with quite well, actually.
June 19th, 2017 at 7:52 pm
Jimmy Giles?
Doug Williams?