Robert Ayers Doesn’t Like People “Talking Junk” About Doug Martin
May 11th, 2017
Joe asked the big bad bully of the Bucs defense yesterday — and thank the heavens he’s on the roster — for his thoughts on the Buccaneers’ draft and the new offensive toys.
Well, Robert Ayers took that question and drove it right into a Doug Martin celebration.
A “naturally pissed off person,” Ayers revealed he was irked that draft analysts and others were spouting that the Bucs would invest heavily in a running back like, say, Dalvin Cook.
“We’ve got Doug [Martin], who I think is going to be a monster,” Ayers said. “You know, people been talking junk about him like he didn’t just run for, what, 1,500, 1,600 yards two years ago. Thes econd-leading rusher [and] people are talking junk about him like he didn’t just do that two years ago.
“People were saying we were going to draft a running back and I was like, ‘You’re crazy.’ But you know, We’re gonna have him. We’re gonna to have DeSean [Jackson]. We’re gonna have Cameron Brate. We’re gonna have [O.J.] Howard. We’re going to have Mike [Evans]. Our offensive line is going to be even better. So I’m excited, man. I think it’s going to be some real issues, and the defense is going to be right there. Hopefully [the defense] will be better than they are. And that’s the goal, but I’m excited.”
Yes, Ayers loves him some Doug Martin. Lots of Buccaneers do. But for Ayers, this talk was nothing new. After the Super Bowl, Ayers jumped on Twitter to shoot down talk of Adrian Peterson playing for Tampa Bay. “All due respect to AP (best rb of our era) but I’m riding wit Doug.. he bout to tear shit up next year when he healthy.”
Speaking on the Buccaneers Radio Network last year, Ayers also talked about how impressed he was by film of Martin when he played for the Giants before coming to the Bucs.
Martin has many devotees in the locker room, but Joe is confident that won’t be any kind of significant factor when it comes time for the Bucs to establish their running backs stable.
Martin needs to hope for a small miracle to be on the roster when his drug suspension is lifted in Week 4.
May 11th, 2017 at 5:07 am
Completely baseless statement…worthy of fake news, not Joe’s usual well-founded pontification: “Martin needs to hope for a small miracle to be on the roster when his drug suspension is lifted in Week 4.”
So full of BS, that Joe should get a show on CNN. Better yet, he could clean up for Maddow on MSNBC and fit right in.
Fred, why do you keep reading when you’ve become so negative? Joe doesn’t come to your house and attack your credibility. Sorry you’re having such a bad day.–Joe
May 11th, 2017 at 5:08 am
What a great pickup this guy has been. While his production has been average, it’s his effect on the culture of the defense where I believe Ayers has really shined. Any more guys like this we can get, I’m totally in favor of.
May 11th, 2017 at 5:34 am
Fred E. has it right. for whatever reason, Joe will believe the Bucs brass when they say they like their O-line but doesn’t believe them when they say they like their running backs. And oh by the way Joe, your comment that the Bucs don’t come out and say DM will be on the roster is also baseless. It’s a negotiating ploy, nothing more, nothing less.
It’s really cute how you folks are so sure of yourselves. But Joe expresses that level of firmness and you start to come unglued. The Bucs liked their O-line because it played pretty well, much better than the stat geeks and many fans believe. Joe was writing that in midseason last year. And of course, Joe doesn’t believe everything Joe is told by the Bucs.–Joe
May 11th, 2017 at 5:48 am
Agree with Fred … a ‘Completely baseless statement’ Joe. When Doug first got suspended, felt pretty sure that he’d be gone. But EVERYTHING the Bucs have said and done since then tells us that’s not the case … depending on how Martin progresses. And so far, he’s risen to the occasion and worked hard it looks like to clean up his act and report in great shape. As of right now, he’s still the most productive RB on our roster. Nothing points to Doug not being with us after his suspension is lifted. Me thinks Joe is just stirring the pot.
May 11th, 2017 at 6:00 am
Isnt Doug’s guarantee money for this year voided by whiz quiz? Whats the deal with his contract that he just got extended.
May 11th, 2017 at 6:28 am
Seattle – the Bucs can cut Doug Martin with no penalty. This year’s salary of $7M which was guaranteed is no longer guaranteed. But if the Bucs do not cut Martin when he comes back from suspension after week 3 of the regular season (or sometime before that) – then Martin will receive the full (prorated) amount of his contract for 13 games in 2017 (about $5.3M). There is the option of bringing DM back at a lesser salary after being cut if both sides agree or a new deal at a lesser salary could be agreed upon and signed prior to that week 4 deadline – but in both those cases, Martin would have to agree to play for the Bucs for less $ and sign a new contract.
So the bottom line is – the Bucs have control over only 2 options regarding Martin: cut him with no penalty or keep him and pay him $5M for his 13 games of eligibility. Anything else (like a new deal for less $ or resigning for less $ after being cut) would require the cooperation of Doug Martin.
May 11th, 2017 at 6:29 am
Better watch out Joe…Ayers is a big dude.
May 11th, 2017 at 6:44 am
@Seattle …Licht can cancel the contract due to his failing the drug test. True.
I think Licht is playing his cards the right way. If the other running backs in the team show that they can efficiently handle the load during training camp and pre-season then Licht has leverage to cancel his contract and offer Doug a new contract with less pay but with incentives to continue to play better.
Once Licht cancels the contract Doug becomes a free agent. The Bucs need to be sure the backups to Doug are ready to perform in case Doug is injured or decides to go else where if his contract is canceled.
There is a probability the contract is never canceled since Doug will not be paid for 3 games. This brings down the 2017 contract numbers to some where just over 5 million which now a days is bottom change in the NFL specially, if he looks promising for 2017.
As long as Doug has no security he will have to do his best until the season starts.
As you notice Joe has softened his “Doug will not be with the Bucs in 2017.” Joe is holding on to that belief just like “The Den of Depression” which also makes no sense after experiencing a season like last year.
Joe hasn’t softened or changed anything. Perhaps you weren’t reading clearly here.–Joe
Go Bucs!!!
May 11th, 2017 at 6:49 am
Thanks pickgrin, great reply and its going to be interesting to see what the team decides to do and how Doug performs after his suspension. I think if you’re the Bucs saying he looks good they give him another shot and has another 2015. If we get good Doug this year our offense will be unstoppable with that balance.
May 11th, 2017 at 7:03 am
If it’s only 5 mil, there’s no sense cutting him. Maybe if we were in salary cap hell like we might be in a year or two, I could see it, but we’re not. Doug plays best when he has to prove himself. He could be great this year. If he’s not, all they have to do is recognize it early and not keep in there for 8 weeks. But we will have to address RB next year IF these other guys don’t progress. Like Joe says, we’re in a win-now mode. The best way to win now is have a RB that has been and could be one of the best in the league. I don’t see why kicking the tires on Doug for a couple weeks this year would be such a bad idea. Unless McNichols or Jaq or Sims is tearing it up the first three weeks
May 11th, 2017 at 7:09 am
Joe – did you happen to share YOUR beliefs on Dougie with Ayers?
May 11th, 2017 at 7:21 am
Martin needs to hope for a small miracle to be on the roster when his drug suspension is lifted in Week 4.
According to the media but they are almost always proven wrong. Because your feelings and opinions just don’t matter. Love the site for the content and need but not interested in your opinion. At this point I choose that unless barber or the new back turn into some kind sensational player Martin on the cheap is the way to go
May 11th, 2017 at 7:39 am
Who expected Conte to stay and McDougal to walk…
Who expected OJ to fall to #19
Who the h€!! expected Licht to trade up for kicker
Who knows the mind of Licht and the Bucs brass, all we have is opinions of where Dougie will be week four, the only thing we know is the Bucs aren’t in a hurry or have to make a decision right now.
I’m team Martin, but first and foremost team Bucs
May 11th, 2017 at 7:55 am
I told you guys the day he was suspended he will be back…
And Licht will give this chump every penny of his bloated contract
He will get every penny
May 11th, 2017 at 7:57 am
I kind of see the other side here. I think it will take a miracle that Doug is not on the team in Week 4.
My logic is McNichols, Barber, Sims, Rodgers would all have to be productive and healthy in the time period leading up to week 4 and Martin would have to show up unmotivated and out of shape. By all accounts, even here, he sounds for all the world like a guy with something to prove.
Pick.. I’ve posed this question, do you know if he is cut say in week 8, will the Bucs be forced to pay the remainder of that contract. Like Freeman a few years back when he double dipped on salary, or since all of the guarantees are voided, is he basically on a check to check deal?
Personal feelings aside, Ask this question of yourselves. Are the Bucs a better football team with a motivated, healthy Doug Martin (which by every account he is) on the Roster or say him playing for the Panthers?
May 11th, 2017 at 8:01 am
Bang the Martin hate drum. Even a positive quote about Martin leads you to conclude he needs a “miracle”. This has just gotten ridiculous. You are ridiculous, Joe.
There is no hate whatsoever. So stupid to even imply. Joe’s just staying candid. Such a sensitive bunch. –Joe
May 11th, 2017 at 8:08 am
And to no shock to anyone, kobe liar, lies once again!!!!!!!!!!
what he really said that day!!!!!!!
Kobe Faker Says:
December 28th, 2016 at 4:37 pm
“Doug Martin is a no good POS!” JR Sweezy
Kobe Faker Says:
December 28th, 2016 at 5:56 pm
kobe wants a offensive playcaller…no matter what round
Kobe Faker Says:
December 28th, 2016 at 6:36 pm
anybody have approx the new cap number?
that is a sh1t load of money to spend
we can really address alot of holes with that
this is going to be fun offseason
*I think wash could only pay for 1 reciever. would love either d jackson or p garson.
May 11th, 2017 at 8:10 am
Many of the positive posters here continue to point out how wrong Joe is about the whole Doug Martin situation. Stubborn Joe just can’t admit when he is wrong! I wonder how he will spin it during the season while Martin plays well.
May 11th, 2017 at 8:11 am
He needs a “miracle” to be on the team? Are you serious?
This is sensationalist journalism and nothing more. Joes knows they’ll get 100 comments on any article where they claim Doug isn’t going to make it.
Go Bucs!
So stupid guys. Comments don’t mean anything to Joe. Less than 2 percent of people read the comments, and take about 80 percent off that when it’s a lot of comments. Less than 1 percent of readers actually comment. Sensationalist journalism? Joe’s sharing the direct quote of a player about his teammate.–Joe
May 11th, 2017 at 8:15 am
I think he’ll be back if he does whatever Licht told him he needs to do, but no matter if he’s really in the plans or not, Martin is a good insurance policy to have if we get hit with a RB injury before week 4. The longer he stays in the roster the more likely he’s not going anywhere. If the Bucs cut him, I’ll trust Licht, who sees him every day and knows more about his commitment than I do.
May 11th, 2017 at 8:32 am
“Martin needs to hope for a small miracle to be on the roster when his drug suspension is lifted in Week 4.” – J0E
Here’s how I see it: The other running backs on the roster will have three games to prove they should be the starter. If none of them do, Doug Martin will be named starter by week 5 (assuming it takes him a week to get up to par).
Fred E. Bucs Says
“Completely baseless statement…worthy of fake news…”
First off, clearly, you and a whole bunch of others cannot seem to sense when the content of an article moves from news to opinion. Joe’s statement above was ‘opinion’, not news. And he did not claim otherwise.
And for those of you who claimed Joe said we would absolutely take a RB in round one? READ THIS:
“Regardless, the point here is Joe believes the Bucs would be content to wait on drafting a running back until the fourth round or later this year.”
https://www.joebucsfan.com/2017/03/bucs-like-running-backs-cant-stop/
Looks to me like Joe called it right.
I don’t always agree with Joe (as I’m sure he knows by now), but what people seem to forget around here is that Joe is a Buccaneers fan. He has opinions just like all of us. He is allowed to express those opinions, especially on his own website. This is a blog. Look up the definition and usual content of blogs.
Joe goes above and beyond with this website. Would you people rather be paying for content with his competitors?
Joe would never say this on the website, but dang, people, show a little respect and gratitude.
May 11th, 2017 at 8:33 am
I could never do what Joe does. I would be locked out of heaven for the ways I would respond to some of you, lol.
May 11th, 2017 at 8:38 am
Oh, and just like all of us, Joe is allowed to be wrong too.
For example:
“Joe still believes the Bucs will wash their hands of Martin before training camp.”
https://www.joebucsfan.com/2017/04/doug-martin-emerges/
Now, it;s too soon to prove that statement is wrong right now, because training camp is not here…but when it comes, I fully intend to ‘playfully’ rib Joe.
‘Playfully’ means in a friendly manner, not in a mean way.
May 11th, 2017 at 8:38 am
All we need for this season is for 2015 Martin to show up. If that guy shows up, then I’ll certainly be talking Super Bowl. After the SB he can do all the drugs in the world he wants. Just this season Doug. That’s all I need you for.
We’ll know in pre-season if 2015 DM is here. If he is, we might go all the way!
May 11th, 2017 at 8:41 am
Bonzai was the very first “prophet” to tell us DM would be back!
I disagreed. We’ll see.
May 11th, 2017 at 8:52 am
It is my believe that every player from Jameis through 90 on the roster has to make the team during the offseason. Whether Martin is on the team after week three is predicated on how well he does in training camp (and in his case how healthy he is.) Should be, could be, might be is all BS. Koetter or Licht both say they are going to play the players that give them the best chance to win, thats just how it is. No team plays their scrubs (unless its week 17 and they are after a high draft pick.) Arguing is May who is going to start in September, let alone who will be the final 53 is an exercise is futility. NOTE: You folks won’t see this comment for about an hour, it is just something I have to learn to live with……
May 11th, 2017 at 8:52 am
I’m sticking with the -wait to see how the RBs look in TC/preseason- stance
You could visibly see that Martin was looking a lot better entering that 2015 season during that time. If he looks like our best back by far he likely stays if I had to guess
May 11th, 2017 at 8:56 am
Fred towing the company line of Fake News eh! Your boy’s catch phrase and recent actions are so anti American. Any negative Trump news is fake news. I will guess that you only watch Fox News for your info. CNN may lean a bit to the left but it is hardly fake news. If you watch the World News, CNN, and PBS all of the news is basically the same. You know why? Because it is not fake news. Sorry for the political rant but we have a guy trying to be the CEO of our country (in other parts of the world they are referred to as dictators). He has no regard for checks and balances, which the media is actually a part of. When people repeat this nonsense they are giving him more and more power. IDK though, maybe that is what you want.
May 11th, 2017 at 8:58 am
Anyone willing to make a bet about Martin’s status on the 53 man roster come the 4th game?
I’ll toss this out: Doug Martin is the only RB on the Bucs roster that has the *potential* to carry a team on his back.
Rodgers and Sims don’t, and McNichols is 100% unproven.
May 11th, 2017 at 9:01 am
The Doug Martin hate campaign.
A positive message of support from the beast…. Joe at some point in time u may have to look Doug Martin in the eyes… but when it’s time you’ll look at the floor.
May 11th, 2017 at 9:05 am
Buccaneer Bonzai Says:
I love the Joes.
They strike a perfect blend of fact, news, opinion and trolling.
It’s the trolling that draws eyeballs. Everybody drives slowly past a trainwreck, and some even do a U-Turn to see more.
That’s what makes JBF so awesome: entertaining style. Other blogs are solid content-wise, but as dry as burnt toast.
And the posters here are a virtual cornucopia of mental and emotional dysfunction, present company included…
JBF isn’t just a blog. It’s a hillbilly family picnic at the asylum…
May 11th, 2017 at 9:08 am
It’s really cute how you folks are so sure of yourselves. But Joe expresses that level of firmness and you start to come unglued. The Bucs liked their O-line because it played pretty well, much better than the stat geeks and many fans believe. Joe was writing that in midseason last year. And of course, Joe doesn’t believe everything Joe is told by the Bucs.–Joe
Wow, a little condescending hypocrisy huh Joe? I like you man, I like this site and I utilize it every day. You can say some outlandish stuff though. I guess everyone that posts is guilty of this time to time.
However, I’m trying to grasp the concept after all the signs, signs that you have posted repeatedly about, pointing to him returning. Not cutting Doug, public praise for him by our coach, gm, and teammates, not drafting an rb high, and even more praise about his performance thus far. I mean I would bet you in person if I had the opportunity at this point. We get that hes inconsistent but that’s what depth can be for. A lot of people here don’t even realize how many #1 went down last year but because Doug had trouble accompanied with it, he’s crucified. We don’t know what he did but let’s stop ignoring the fact that he had 2 of the best performances in the past 5 years for any rb. It is not easy rushing for what he did and if he has the capability and the leverage, he will be back. PERIOD.
May 11th, 2017 at 9:10 am
and we have the leverage***
May 11th, 2017 at 9:15 am
@ Eric:
That “outlandish stuff” generates clicks and eyeballs and hits emotional hot buttons that end up as comments.
And “outlandish” is highly subjective.
May 11th, 2017 at 9:16 am
We’ll have a better idea of which direction the team is leaning come training camp. Until then I really wouldnt be surprised either way. Although if OJ wasnt there at 19 and we drafted say Dalvin Cook then I would definitely expect Martin to be gone real soon.
May 11th, 2017 at 9:20 am
Okay cobraboy, cherry pick one word from my post. You are welcome to replace that with any other term you feel comfortable with.
I get why they post what they do. It’s common sense, really. However, I feel like 90% of Joe’s opinionated topics hold merit and I’m willing to bet if the title of this article was something positive about Doug, it would still generate the amount of feedback it did.
Joe is control of what he posts and how it’s portrayed. I just think if we’re discussing logic, logically it makes a lot more sense that Doug will play all year, if no injury, for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
May 11th, 2017 at 9:24 am
3 words Joe. …REAL RECOGNIZE REAL!
May 11th, 2017 at 9:25 am
@ Eric: I meant no harm with my post.
May 11th, 2017 at 9:29 am
To be clear, I have no problem with people who say Martin is finished and should be cut, we all have our opinions about it. I have a problem with the same article in a different form every day. Everyone hates on Martin for drugs but Kwon, well, he just made a rookie mistake.
May 11th, 2017 at 9:34 am
It is weird how Kwon got a pass. Dude cheated and then lied about it with some BS story about an energy drink. He hurt the team big time by getting popped. I really get annoyed too when they make up bogus stories too so I definitely did not give him a pass personally.
May 11th, 2017 at 9:37 am
However, he did not go to rehab for his problem. Oh wait, per some of the posters yesterday that was only a PR move Martin and he went there just to clear his head rather than the Bahamas. LOL, that was the best. He couldn’t go to the Bahamas because his “friends” would go too. As though he could not simply go off on his own and not tell/invite them to join him.
May 11th, 2017 at 9:38 am
na it’s cool. I apologize if I seemed as if I did. I guess after years of posting here, I assume most people are being malicious and given that a large chunk of fans on this site aren’t the brightest light bulbs in the factory, I have the tendency to go in on them.
Either way, I’m just surprised in Joe. I respect that people think Doug is gone or not the answer, I just extremely disagree.
May 11th, 2017 at 9:46 am
We still need a fullback…
May 11th, 2017 at 9:53 am
Anyone recall one of the Buc’s linebackers getting suspended for PED use? He ended up bouncing back to being a decent player. IF Doug has his head on straight and gets some decent blocking, he may have a good season. Take it one year at a time.
May 11th, 2017 at 9:58 am
Why does Josh Gordon and darrell Washington still have teams? Failing drug testes don’t mean anything. Dm was hurt also last year but still ran hard. I don’t get it. Are we watching the same games here
May 11th, 2017 at 10:03 am
sorry Joe but I disagree…..Doug will be back and he will run like he did in 2015….if you want to write about a rb that needs a small miracle, you should write about Sims and how his career has been just as inconsistent as Doug…maybe even more so….
IMO, Payton Barber is being groomed to spell Doug and maybe take over in a few years….quiz is dependable and has a unique skill set….the rook and Sims have to battle it out and I’ve seen just about enough of Sims dancing and tip toeing between the tackles….GO BUCS!!!!
May 11th, 2017 at 10:05 am
Trust is a mighty big deal. We don’t know what went on behind closed doors the last 5 years between Doug and team management. Let’s assume he is in shape, doing well on the field, and appears to be as hungry as we expect. If he then gets cut, I’ll bet that management doesn’t believe they can trust him to stay clean and produce. He sure failed the team with his whiz quiz last year. Trust is a big deal!
May 11th, 2017 at 10:09 am
Sounds like your floundering on your claim Martin will never return. Now its just a small miracle away. Small miracles happen every day.
May 11th, 2017 at 10:12 am
@tdtb…..he who laughs last, laughs the loudest…..somewhere, doug is smiling…..GO BUCS!!!!
May 11th, 2017 at 10:18 am
Ayers is not a coach, so good for him being a nice guy to Doug, but it doesn’t mean anything more than that. IMO, Martin is just insurance in case of an unexpected injury or smth. But he’s out hoping to come back in, not the other way around. With all due respect, the DMartin crowd starts to sound like the MGlennon crowd. We’re lucky if the bears would trade a 7th rd for him.
May 11th, 2017 at 10:20 am
Tnew says:
“Pick.. I’ve posed this question, do you know if he is cut say in week 8, will the Bucs be forced to pay the remainder of that contract.”
Martin is a 6 year veteran in the NFL – and like any vet under contract – his entire year’s salary becomes guaranteed if he is on the roster week 1. But in this case, Martin is suspended the 1st 3 games of the season – so that status defers to week 4.
So bottom line – If the Bucs don’t cut Doug and choose to retain him under his current contract when he comes back week 4 from suspension ($7M which will be prorated down to $5.3M due to the games missed under suspension) – then the Bucs would be required to pay the full pro rated amount even if they later decided to cut him in week 8 of this season. There are no more guarantees in Martin’s contract beyond this year so nothing beyond this year is affected if they retain DM under the current contract. If a new deal is sign – the same terms apply.
May 11th, 2017 at 10:21 am
TBR
Look up doug martin and “rehab” during the few days after his suspension announcement
I posted when the bucs FO stated the word “rehab” he was coming back…and licht will give the overrated player every penny
“Can someone shut the vault door and lock TBR inside the archive vault”
Kobe Faker
May 11th, 2017 at 10:32 am
Still poking that stick. We get it Joe, you hate Martin. Hope Ayers will will forgive your hate for his teammate.
May 11th, 2017 at 10:41 am
Buccaneer Bonzai Says:
Aren’t there two on the roster, 256lb. Quayvon Hicks and 240lb. Austin Johnson?
May 11th, 2017 at 10:41 am
Man people here are crazy!!!! I HATE watching Doug Martin continually get hauled down from behind when he’s in the clear because he’s so slow for an RB.
I hated the stats he’s put up for 60% of his career.
I hate that he let his teammates down bigly last year!
But I do not hate Doug Martin. Just because you do not admire somebody’s athletic skill set or performance does not make you a hater of that person.
Some of this crap directed at Joe is moronic. And so IF Martin gets cut and never plays again with the Bucs am I going to see an entire thread of posters who are losing their minds this morning come back and say…wow sorry for that mistake Joe.
Pickgrin laid it out. Either you plan on paying Martin 5+ million this year or it’s all up in the air. I do not say Martin will NOT come back but I hope he doesn’t.
There is only ONE way Martin comes back and it’s bad news for the Bucs. That’s if McNichols is a bust…Quizz doesn’t hack it…Barber doesn’t improve and Sims gets hurt again….if McNichols plays as expected Doug is gone. Yes McNichols has some of the same skill sets as Sims but that’s NOT who he’s competing with. McNichols is the opposite runner of Sims. He FINISHES RUNS. He does not shy from contact. McNichols is a poor man’s Doug Martin with more athleticism and blocking and receiving skills.
If our OL improves as much as I believe it will the RB will not be critical…which is why we didn’t invest in a big time RB like Dalvin or Mixon.
McNichols already brings waaaaaay more to the passing game than Martin including the ability to protect #3. New and improved blocking TE and an RB capable of blocking and #3 should get a little more time this year.
May 11th, 2017 at 10:53 am
Stpete
This is an unusual day. This is the first time I completely disagree with you.
Fact is none of our running backs will ever come close to the seasons that Doug has already accomplished. Quiz won’t last 16 games. Barber is a bruiser but doesn’t have the same ability to break tackles as doug and half the talent. Sims can’t ever be a bell cow and is a role player. McNichols is a 5th rounder! He may not even make the team. I think he will but depending on him, even if he does play well in preseason and training camp, would be foolish.
Fact is we have 5 rbs, none of which are dependable. But you know which one of those already has 2 elite seasons.
Doug is not getting cut. He has flaws, like every rb in the game, but he also has PROVEN he can be an elite running back. Period.
As long as doug keeps up his workouts and does the right thing, he will be our starting rb in week 4 and provide a boost for the gauntlet that’s to come at that time. We will be fine vs Miami, Chicago, and Minnesota without him.
May 11th, 2017 at 11:32 am
@eric…I agree…and i’ll take it a step further and say the rook may be signed to the P.S. just like barber did last year….I think sims is the less you can depend on….he’s injured just as much as doug and doesn’t run between the tackles….the only part I agree with @stpete, is that, if the oline improves, it really wont matter who’s running the rock….GO BUCS!!!!
May 11th, 2017 at 11:34 am
St Pete – Doug Martin has developed into a pretty good pass protector at this point in his career and would be ahead of McNichols in that dept right now most likely. He has also developed into a decent receiver. Not good but decent. Good enough to be considered a fairly legit 3 down back. (When he is healthy that is which has only been 40% of his NFL career).
Here’s the real bottom line folks. If Doug Martin is healthy and motivated – you WANT him on this team. The Bucs know this. They have tape from 2 and 5 years ago. The talent is there. But anytime Doug has gotten hurt – he has struggled the entire year for the most part.
Some NFL players are able to play hurt. Even more are able to play knicked. Doug can do neither effectively based on past evidence. But when fully healthy, Doug Martin is a top 5 NFL RB.
The Bucs will very likely let this whole scenario play itself out over the next 4 months. They will keep DM on the roster through TC and Pre-season and will make their decision after week 3 of the regular season.
If Doug has done everything asked of him, passed all his drug tests and looks good leading up to suspension and is fully healthy when its time to make the decision – my bet is they will bring Doug back and pay him the $5M if need be. That amount is already “on the books” so to speak and I don’t think the amount will be that much of a consideration.
It is also likely that if the decision to keep DM is made, that Light will approach him and ask him to sign a new deal. A deal that pays pretty well – but also fully protects the team in the case that more “personal” issues pop up. Sort of like the new Sweezy contract but with guarantees against specific behaviors instead of a specific injury. And Martin would likely sign that new deal assuming the terms and pay were fair which I’m pretty sure they would be.
There’s a better chance that DM will be a Buccaneer in 2017 than that he won’t IMO. But a lot can happen in the next 4 1/2 months so the Bucs should and likely will just let the whole thing play itself out and deal with it when the time to do so is here in late Sept.
May 11th, 2017 at 11:38 am
Read them all. Only line that stood out to me was Pete’s “if McNichols plays like expected Doug is gone”. End of discussion for me.
May 11th, 2017 at 11:55 am
If Doug passed his wee test he would STILL be your starting RB. End of discussion.
May 11th, 2017 at 12:03 pm
Pro or anti Martin, the give him another chance is leading from my calculation. Nobody knows what the Martin outcome will be. I can see both sides argument. This early on it’s just a mystery.
May 11th, 2017 at 12:03 pm
the big bad bully ayers was speaking directly to the pontificating joe’s… y’all better watch yo mouth 🙂
May 11th, 2017 at 12:24 pm
This isn’t the NATIONAL CLEAN UPSTANDING DECENT CITIZEN LEAGUE. This is the National Football League. If you can help this football team win games, you will be on this roster. Doug Martin is the best option we have at running back. He will be on this roster. Teams are tired of letting their best players go over small transgressions, only to watch them go to the Patriots or Raiders or Broncos and become important pieces to a winning team. Doug will be a Buc. Its obvious that at least one of these Joes wants Dougie gone. Report the news, don’t create it.
Joe’s not creating news, although you seem to be very well skilled at fabrication. Perhaps your reading comprehension is off.–Joe
May 11th, 2017 at 12:37 pm
You’re not creating news? i remember “Is Raheem Inappropriately Talking To Players?”
Don’t act like that’s not the reason Gerald McCoy isn’t so easy to warm up to you guys.
May 11th, 2017 at 12:38 pm
“Leave Drug Martin aloooonnne!”
ps Fred is Fake poster like faux news.
May 11th, 2017 at 12:45 pm
Joe likes his spicey chicken
May 11th, 2017 at 12:49 pm
Damn Joe, you’re being extremely condescending today LOL
813 I agree totally and also that last line that stpete had mentioned too.
I just don’t think a lot of fans realize how much our o line will improve with the added weapons alone. It goes both ways. More time behind the line and the receivers thrive. More separation from receivers and the rbs and ol thrive. They stacked the box against us cuz they knew we only had 2 threats on the field in evans and brate. They can’t do so now.
So that all applies to that same comment, doesn’t matter who is back there, they will thrive. The only thing is the margin between production and I could see mcweapon getting 4 ypc but doug will always surpass him and get 4.5 IMO.
As far as how mcweapon will perform as expected, well what are the expectations? he was a fifth rounder! he shouldn’t have high expectations lol. He was a baller in college but if he was so good and no other concerns were there, shouldn’t he have gone in the third or higher? fourth at the lowest?
Again I think they could all thrive this season but Doug can break tackles and has proven to have monster yards after contact in the past. I just don’t think either of the other players skillset is close and give me a guy that has the potential to do better and has had 2 235+ games in the past 5 years. The only rb to do so, twice.
May 11th, 2017 at 1:06 pm
Fred speaking “alternative facts”.
I asked on a post yesterday if the joes were going to write about ayers statement. I believe he was talking directly to the joes. Correct me if i’m wrong, but i believe he made that statement in response to a question from the joes. As one poster said, dont make ayers angry joes!!
May 11th, 2017 at 1:36 pm
Eric
Those are all solid points I accept them all except for one.
It’s not fair to McNichols to compare him with Martin in an area he can’t possibly keep up…the NFL because he hasn’t played there yet.
But how about where they did compete…apples to apples.
McNichols put up better numbers in three years than Doug did in four.
Rushing numbers were almost identical in fact their average was as both averaged 5.6 ypc over their careers. Passing was no competition though as McNichols chalked up more than 300 more yards in one less season and seven more TD’s in 3 years than Doug in 4.
Bottom line….where they have actually been comparable…in the SAME situation….McNichols actually outperformed Doug. I’m not going to be surprised if he does it at this next level.
May 11th, 2017 at 2:19 pm
Me neither Pete. And I against DM.
May 11th, 2017 at 2:24 pm
SPBF says:
“I’m not going to be surprised if he does it at this next level.”
Me neither St Pete. I think we got a potential steal in McNichols for a 5th round pick. I can only surmise that the reason he fell so far was because there were so many good RBs available to draft this year. And the minor injury probably contributed.
McNichols was likely rated as a 2nd round talent on the Bucs board based on his tape and productivity in College. And there are 0 “character concerns” that I am aware of.
The big question in my mind is what would we have done if McNichols had already been selected when our turn came in the 5th? He was among if not THE last “good” RB prospect left on the board when we picked him.
May 11th, 2017 at 2:43 pm
This is why I like discussing football with you. You’re rational and intelligent. I respect your point.
I’m just failing to see why Doug was a clear cut first or second rounder and McWeapon is not. I think it has a lot to do with their lower body girth and ability to cut. Their body frame is nearly identical. Like many people here have said as well, I think he replaces sims if he replaces anyone. I could be wrong but we will see.
Maybe it had to do with rb depth. I for one would never decide to draft an rb in round 1 if I were a gm in my entire career. It was deep this year and I think every rb including mcweapon pays dividends for a while. I just checked out their combines and mcweapon killed him in everything except one, the 3 cone. That goes with his cutting ability theory. Not to mention doug has almost 10 pounds on him of which im sure is pure muscle. People don’t realize how a few pounds can make a huge difference.
If anything, I think Barber is the odd man out.
May 11th, 2017 at 3:28 pm
Eric,
To your comments that it’s difficult to differentiate between DM as a rd 1 pick and McWeapon as a 5th I think it’s more a question of supply and demand. The fact that this draft was loaded at RB , deepest in years and years, and that this year RB is seen more favorably than in the recent past. If you look back at the draft class when Martin was picked and compared them …..well I don’t believe DM would have gone rd 1.
You make a point by stating that 10lbs is not insignificant when considering height. DM as I see it, I’m very open to being wrong, seems thicker thru the chest. Legs look about the same. Save definition vs bulk. But I am in agreement with you that it’s not easy to see such a vast divide between the two.
May 11th, 2017 at 3:38 pm
ya your first paragraph is exactly what I was thinking and suggested above.
Wonder how high he would have gone in doug’s draft?
Let’s just say if we have a doug clone with better ball skills, then I would be shocked. I just read mcweapons draft summary and it said the same thing as I thought, he may not be able to cut in the pros.
We’ll see the difference in very soon, even a couple of weeks.
May 11th, 2017 at 3:44 pm
Joe knows he’ll be a Buc come week 4. He’s just filling time and enjoying the frantic reactions. Sorry. Joe doesn’t operate that way. Never has. –Joe
The muscle hamster should be back with a vengeance now that he’s not on the Molly train
May 11th, 2017 at 3:45 pm
We just don’t know yet what we have with “McWeapon”, and really that’s the long and short of it. With luck, he’ll be a premiere back.
We know what we have in DM because they’re NFL touches. That’s the real difference IMO.
And, I’ll keep saying it, Doug would’ve been the unquestioned starter coming into this season if not for the wee test.
May 11th, 2017 at 4:14 pm
According to pickgrin’s contract breakdown it would make absolutely no sense to cut Doug now. They’d only be saving 5mil this season, the arguments over in my eyes. Add to the fact that Doug is sensational when 100% why do that? Also everybody who keeps saying he gets caught from behind, doesn’t that mean he’s broken out in front lol?
May 11th, 2017 at 4:50 pm
Joe says: “Fred, why do you keep reading when you’ve become so negative? Joe doesn’t come to your house and attack your credibility. Sorry you’re having such a bad day.–Joe”
I’m having great day…looks like the masses also think you’re “opinion” (not fake news…since someone got their panties in a bunch) is baseless. Why is it because I respond to a baseless statement you think: 1. I’m attacking your credibility (as opposed to your single BS sentence that I identified)?; Hmm, could have been commentary like “full of bs,” “completely baseless,” and “worthy of fake news.” That’s a cluster of credibility shots. –Joe
2. I’m having a bad day? If Joe had the capacity to ruin my day, i’d be an such incredible loser. Never implied that Joe was ruining your day. –Joe 3. If can’t take challenges to your assertions, why allow any comments at all? Joe allows comments all day long that challenge but are not malicious and do not attack Joe’s credibility.–Joe.
Do you see me come here and do broad attacks on your blog?
But when you drop a grenade that needs to be tossed away, you get about 10 guys letting you know. You seem unhapy today. Please cheer up…GO BUCS!
May 11th, 2017 at 4:55 pm
Joe says: “So stupid guys. Comments don’t mean anything to Joe.” That’s even crazier to believe than…
“Martin needs to hope for a small miracle to be on the roster when his drug suspension is lifted in Week 4.”
Which is ALL folks took issue with.
May 11th, 2017 at 5:19 pm
Wait a second… I thought Martin was a terrible teammate…. then why are his teammates protecting his back? I’m pretty sure a bad teammate wouldn’t have other teammates sticking up for him. Just sayin!
If Martin was so far in the dog house (as joe continually insinuates) then he would have been cut already. It seems like Martin is being given the chance to earn his roster spot. With Martin’s talent and drive to redeem himself it is a slam dunk he will be on the roster. if the bucs were tight in cap space, then I could see it happening easily. But if Martin can help this team in any way, then it would be foolish to cut him. Even if he is only a back up. If it is possible Martin helps the team, why not keep him? We have the cap space to hold him. And Licht has shown a loyalty to players by letting them run out a bloated salary even if they are benched or their production has dropped. Licht admits his mistakes, but if a player is under contract and can help this team, there is no reason to cut them.
May 11th, 2017 at 6:40 pm
IMHO Jameis changed the Bucs culture and it’s now all about “family” and Doug is part of that “family” … Jameis runs the Bucs now and he’s made his love for Doug clear so I would say that it will take a small miracle for Doug not to be on the roster come week 4 …
JOE … you took a beating with this column and I’m one guy that has never bashed you yet but I would ask why not just say what I say, namely, that the Bucs would be stupid to bring Doug back at his previous salary, rather than say it will take a miracle for them to bring him back at all? I don’t understand why you want to pigeon-hole yourself?
Anyways, keep up the great work!
Joe isn’t pigeonholing anything. Joe cares little about salary, since it’s not Joe’s money, and it’s been proving time and again that spending the most in football doesn’t mean wins. That written, everybody here should already know the Bucs will tear up Martin’s current contract, barring injuries that put the team in a desperate situation. –Joe
May 11th, 2017 at 6:55 pm
Joe, I disagree about those comments being shots on credibility…not intended to be that…but I apologize for any offense.
May 11th, 2017 at 7:03 pm
^ That apology was classy Fred E … I think Joe took offense as you called him fake news and Joe was just offering his “opinion” and “opinions” can’t be “fake news”.
If only the main stream media would start all of their broadcasts with, “Everything we will say over the next hour will be nothing more than our opinion and should not be mistaken for factual news reporting” that would be helpful as well, hahaha.