Last Old Bucs Running Back Was Very Effective
April 3rd, 2017
“Look at all the gifts I got Garcia this offseason. That little old guy is money.”
There’s been plenty of moaning amidst the Adrian Peterson chatter that 32 year old running backs — like Peterson is — are historically ineffective.
Joe’s not sure how people define “effective,” but Joe does know the last ancient running back to wear Bucs colors was quite effective.
That guy would be Warrick Dunn, who was 33 when he toted the rock for Tampa Bay in 2008. Dunn averaged 4.23 yards per carry, 186 rushes for 786 yards and two touchdowns. And he caught 47 passes out of the backfield.
That’s pretty damn good. It was a significantly better season that Dunn had for Tampa Bay in 1999 or 2001.
Could Peterson carry the ball 12 to 15 times a game this season (like Dunn did for the 9-7 team in ’08) and average 4.23 yards per carry and scare the heck out of defenses and set up play-action for America’s Quarterback, Jameis Winston? Joe thinks so.
Of course, Joe would much prefer the Bucs find a young dynamo running back in the NFL Draft. But doing both would be awfully exciting.
April 3rd, 2017 at 11:05 am
Why o why lord do we have to keep on talking bout Peterson
……..he will not be a buc period!
April 3rd, 2017 at 11:18 am
“Why o why lord do we have to keep on talking bout Peterson
……..he will not be a buc period!”
————-
First of all, anytime there is a future first ballot hall of fame player rumored to be coming to Tampa, that’s big news. Pretty simple concept. Second, I’d love to know what inside information you have that tells you he won’t be a Buc. I agree if you say it’s unlikely, but I think he has a better chance of being a Buc next year than Doug Martin, and I don’t even think it’s close. If the RB they want isn’t there in the draft, I could definitely see it happening at the right price. He is visiting NE today, which means the best coach in the history of football is at least interested.
April 3rd, 2017 at 11:24 am
The draft will determine where Peterson goes.
Nothing will happen before then.
April 3rd, 2017 at 11:24 am
Or there’s Charlie Garner…..
April 3rd, 2017 at 11:29 am
AP in New England today. What’s more important to him? You figure a Super Bowl ring might be just that, at least a strong chance to contend for one. So who would he rather play with??? Jameis or Tom Brady? Will let the rabble answer that one……
April 3rd, 2017 at 11:31 am
I really want a DE picked with one of the two 1st or 2nd rd picks we have. But if we have a chance to draft Cook, WOW, what an offensive lineup that would be! Ball control offense keeps Brees, Newton and Ryan OFF the field. There is NO better defense than that!
And we can still get a stud DE in the 2nd rd!
April 3rd, 2017 at 11:36 am
@ Hawaiian
This is very simple logic……let’s examine it:
# 1 – currently our RBs are serviceable…..until we get a feature back
# 2 – This draft is deep in RB talent….the buc will for sure draft one
# 3 – AP IS NOT playing at a HOF level…he’s oft injured
# 4 – The GM will not pay the money AP wants, and even if it is less, it makes ZERO buisness sense to sign him if you factoring in the first three reasons mentioned up above.
All this news about AP is just off season “let’s keep people interested in the bucs news”.
People just need to stop.
April 3rd, 2017 at 11:38 am
Can you imagine the competition in the RB room with:
AD
Cook
Martin
Mixon
Rodgers
Simms
That what I’m hoping for.
April 3rd, 2017 at 12:00 pm
All that talk about Doug Martin age prior to his new contract and what someone his age was worth but we’re making a case for the old guy. I’m not so much concerned with what he commands in salary as much as I am him wanting to be the man and wanting us to be the reason we got over the Hump. He will want to be the focus of the offense and I just don’t see him wanting to take on a complementary role by splitting reps with whoever we draft and simms and Martin or rodgers
April 3rd, 2017 at 12:01 pm
Vice did a store on Peyton Barber going undrafted last year. Really makes me pull for the guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0Dt44vE8B0
April 3rd, 2017 at 12:08 pm
Whose to say AP won’t be a Buc? Everyone knows Licht gets a free agent at a certain position and draft a rookie at that same exact position.soooo….AP CAN be a Buc and we CAN also draft a RB in the 1st round.
April 3rd, 2017 at 12:08 pm
but will he block?
April 3rd, 2017 at 12:10 pm
Bucsfaninchina-
Barber can’t pass pro brother, that’s going to always limit his snaps.
April 3rd, 2017 at 12:11 pm
@Anthem,
#1 Serviceable yes, dynamic no.
#2 So what if they guys they want aren’t there when we pick? Would you prefer we reach to get one we really don’t want, just for the sake of grabbing a RB. Like you said in #1, our backs are serviceable. Why draft another serviceable back? Yes you can find a good back in the later rounds, but if you actually look at the facts, it’s not as common as most people think.
#3 He doesn’t need to play at a HOF level. An 80% AD is better than 90% of the backs in this league. He led the league in rushing 1 season removed. I don’t think it’s out of the question to think one of the most athletically freakish players in the history of the NFL has another good year or two in him.
#4 Who knows how much money he wants? His price will be determined by the market for his services. Who is to say these teams (including the Bucs) aren’t waiting for his price to go down. Besides, is it your money signing AD? Are we in cap hell? We could pay him $25 Million, and we would still be fine. $5 Million is pennies in our cap situation.
April 3rd, 2017 at 12:23 pm
There is a difference between a pairing like Grimes/VH3 or Ayers/Spence and pairing potentially AP/1st Round Pick. That difference is simple. 2 CBs are always on the field, usually more. 2 DEs are always on the field. How often are 2 RBs on the field at the same time?
I mentioned this yesterday. After all the injuries we had at RB last year, it was logical to use a committee, no? Yet even when Martin was out, and Sims was out, the lead RB got a majority of carries. Majority being over 70% of them.
So why all of a sudden would Koetter use a committee? If we sign AP he will be the guy because, and this is my opinion, he will probly only sign with a team where he will be the guy.
The topic of a 2 year window to compete for a SB gets thrown around here. So if we have a 2 year window, why waste a 1st round pick on what will essentially be a backup for that window? Doesnt make any sense to me.
April 3rd, 2017 at 12:31 pm
For those saying they would take Adrian P. over Doug M…..Martins stats across the board have been better over the past three years. Martin has played in more games, produced more yds rushing, same amount of TDs, more receiving yds, more receiving TDs…..and less turnovers. Martin is younger and with much more motivation….as well as Winston is familiar with handing off to him….and the team knows how he fits in with the team chemistry. Also…its easier for management to cut ties from Martin who is already under contract with ZERO leverage then to sign Peterson and then realize he’s not the guy he was. OR…if they draft a mid round back who ends up shining….we can cut Martin much easier. Peterson is really a desperate signing in my opinion.
April 3rd, 2017 at 12:38 pm
@bucsfaninchina—- Thanks for sharing the link……Now I feel the same way.
Go Bucs! Go Peyton Barber!!!
April 3rd, 2017 at 12:40 pm
How do u not kick the tires on AP. Ya gotta spend some of that Glazer cheese one way or another! AP is the kinda guy who’s just a freak, any player can get hurt at any time ITS FOOOOOOOOTBALL. Sure the chances are greater the older they get but just look at what this dude did after shredding his knee. Went for like what absurd # stat geeks, 2000 yards+ pffff… Sign me up for some of that prove it mentality!
He’s worth the risk, and u also add a RB in the draft like WE ALL WANT. End of discussion. Unless Bil snatches him up now of course.
April 3rd, 2017 at 12:57 pm
Koetter wants a bell cow type bruiser to carry the load. Going into the season with a committee of backs reminds me of our WR situation last year.
Given VJ’s age and injury issues, it was naive of Licht (Joe, and many here too demanded better) to think we’d have enough depth to carry the season.
Draft the ROBF. If the guy’s a little green, then you plug in a vet like AP.
We need a 3 down guy in this draft.
April 3rd, 2017 at 12:59 pm
I hear L. Blount is available ….
April 3rd, 2017 at 1:01 pm
Wasn’t the last old guy RB Chucky brought in, the Immortal Charlie Garner?
April 3rd, 2017 at 1:13 pm
Make AP a Buc
Make Mixon a Buc
April 3rd, 2017 at 1:16 pm
Yes
Don’t remind us Buc fans of the charlie brown or the Tim Brown fiasco…….
You sign AP and it could very well turn into that……how easily do buc fans forget????
Just say “no” to AP…….. like drugs 😉
April 3rd, 2017 at 1:17 pm
Just say no to Mixon too
April 3rd, 2017 at 1:24 pm
One major difference between signing AD and past signings is that signing AD doesn’t come with high expectations. No one is expecting AD to run for 2000 yards. He doesn’t even need to have 1000. This is Jameis’s team. No one has any illusions otherwise. AD would be a small piece of the puzzle. If he’s washed up and ineffective, then we will still be fine. The money isn’t an issue, as we have plenty to spend. You do realize we will be millions upon millions below the cap right? AD being ineffective has little to no effect on this team. It shouldn’t affect how we draft, as I doubt we would sign him before the draft anyway. However, if AD is even close to what he has been, he could potentially be the difference between us being happy to have just made the playoffs versus me spending way more money that I can afford to take a trip to the Super Bowl. I’m okay with that risk.
April 3rd, 2017 at 1:28 pm
I have no idea what the Bucs will do with Martin, and that’s the catch. We all know what we have in Doug. He’s played well in 2 of 5 seasons that he’s played for us. The Bucs hold all the cards in retaining him. If they want him, he will be cheaper than AP and perhaps “more” motivated because of his issue. I feel as though he will be more motivated than AP because AP has already cemented himself as HOF material and nothing to prove.
It’s not that I dislike AP. I just don’t see any logic in signing him.
April 3rd, 2017 at 1:29 pm
I could live with AD if we draft a RB still I guess. The biggest fear I have is that he’s what Steven Jackson was with the Falcons and his snaps are wasted instead of going to a younger back who would do more with the touches
April 3rd, 2017 at 1:39 pm
@Bucsfanman,
I just really can’t see a scenario where we bring Doug back. I could be wrong, but I see it as a foregone conclusion. How can the organization ever trust him again? Do you realize had he been better, we would have definitely been in the playoffs? There’s no question about that. Not to mention they can get out of his contract with no penalty. It just seems like a no brainer. It’s not like they’ve made any comments that give the impression he’s coming back. From my experience, whenever an organization says “they are concerned about him as a man”, that translates as “he gone”.
I don’t buy the fact that Martin is going to be motivated. Why? What’s going to be his motivation? Another contract? Not going to happen. Winning a championship? Maybe, but you don’t think AD is motivated for that? I have never understood that logic.
April 3rd, 2017 at 1:46 pm
The more that I’ve thought about it lately, the more I think the Bucs retain Martin.
Consider this:
1)Martin signed a 2 year deal and, had he not been caught dancing with Miss Molly he would STILL be the starter.
2)Martin was the 2nd leading rusher in 2015.
3)The drug test negated the contract terms and he can be had for a fraction of what he was getting ready to be paid regardless.
Also, Quizz and Sims are “serviceable” backs and can handle the load for 3 games. I have to imagine that Doug was going to get less carries anyway with Quizz playing the way he did. The jury’s out on Sims!
April 3rd, 2017 at 1:52 pm
@Hawaiian- I hear you regarding the trust issues. Honestly though, couldn’t we say the same for Kwon?
There’s validity to AP wanting a SB as motivation. I’ll give you that. But, I think you’re wrong about Doug. He’s 29 and could possibly still play another 2-3 years. If he goes out and proves he’s worthy, that’s a whole lot of motivation. If they retain him, it makes their draft position even more advantageous: BPA!
It’ll be interesting to see what the team does.
April 3rd, 2017 at 1:52 pm
If the Bucs pick up a dominant Right Tackle in the draft or UFA, anyone in the backfield is going to look a lot better very quickly.
April 3rd, 2017 at 1:53 pm
Warrick Dunn never had a major injury in his 12 year career. He was a small back that knew how to avoid punishing hits (hence the 12 year career as a 5-9 180 lb back). Adrian Peterson is 5 inches taller, 37 pounds heavier and has had two major knee injuries in the past 3 seasons.
But yeah, other than that, perfect analogy Joe! 😉
April 3rd, 2017 at 1:55 pm
Cut Martin and give AP his money. The salary cap would remain the same, just with a different RB on the roster. Still draft a RB for the future and for insurance. If the Bucs feel like they can compete for a Superbowl this year (which I hope they do), it’s an easy decision. Low risk-high reward.
April 3rd, 2017 at 2:02 pm
I guess I’m in the minority as I clearly don’t understand the logic of “cut Martin, sign AP”.
This I do know; we need a run-game if we’re going to compete.
April 3rd, 2017 at 2:45 pm
For the most part, there is a line drawn in the sand for running backs. There’s those 30 years and younger, and then there’s those 30 years and older, and you don’t have to be a genius to know which ones are going to be more productive. Peterson has been absolutely run into the ground too, so his 32 years old has more runner worn off the tires than alot of guys.
This conversation is pretty typical of Bucs fans though. A shiny name and the hoards start to slober.
Must…have…guy…that…used…to…be…good!!! Dont….care…about…logical…reasoning!!!
SIGN HIM NOW…..SUPER BOWL…WIN…GUARANTEED
April 3rd, 2017 at 3:30 pm
Sign Peterson,draft Mixon!
April 3rd, 2017 at 3:36 pm
I think Bucsfanman hit the nail on the head with Martin.
Consider this, if the team already knew about the issues, and they were okay with it, why would they suddenly have trust issues now?
I suspect they bring him back on a restructured deal, and still a good possibility we draft a RB.
Honestly the only way I see AP as a Buc is if Martin is gone AND we don’t draft a RB in the first 4 rounds.
April 3rd, 2017 at 3:38 pm
@ gotbbucs
Yes…….this is exactly point……buc fans are throwing logic and reasoning completely out the window just like Lovie Smith did when he came here to coach “my scheme” and nothing worked or went right
April 3rd, 2017 at 4:16 pm
In the NFL it is all about building blocks. Meaning you can build around Winston. You can build around Kwon Alexander and Mike Evans. The Bucs Super Bowl team had a building block at EVERY position. My favorite player of all time is Hardy Nickerson! Why? Because he (I believe) is the first player In that era that would not accept losing. Passed the baton to Brooks, Sapp, Lynch etc…… If the Bucs can continue to get more building blocks like the one’s we already have we will have a bright future. If you build from the scrap heap you will forever be hoping for 8-8
April 3rd, 2017 at 4:17 pm
I believe Michael Pittman was 32 in the Superbowl. He pretty much dominated that game or at least was the turning tide in the only Superbowl we have won.
April 3rd, 2017 at 4:25 pm
You’re right Nick2, Michael Pittman was 32….as in his number was 32. So he was 32 for the superbowl team, as well as the 32 for the Bucs several seasons after it.
Pittman however, was 27 years old in the 2002 season, so a mere 5 years younger than AP. Which is no worse an analogy than comparing AP to 5-8 180 pound Warrick Dunn.
April 3rd, 2017 at 4:46 pm
Again, if you guys know that AD is done, why would the best coach and smartest guy in football be interested? Yes, we all know there’s a possibility AD is done and won’t help the team. No one in their right mind is saying sign AD and ride or die with him leading our team. No one is saying get AD and don’t draft a RB. He is a risk, clearly. No risk it, no biscuit. If he can’t play, then don’t play him. Pretty simple. We can afford it, and if he’s even 80% of what he has been, he could be the difference for us. Point is, he’s not going to hurt us. He can only help. If the other guys on the roster are better, then they will play. Koetter has proven that will be the case.
As for Doug, it’s not the same as Kwon. Doug was hurt and bad for 2 years, then balled out on a contract year. He then proceeded to do party drugs (allegedly) when he got his money, and was beyond horrible. That’s not the same as a rookie mid-round pick taking a PED to try to improve (or get healthy). I’m fine if we bring Doug back. I trust Licht and Koetter. But if they don’t (as I don’t think they will), then they are definitely within their right and no one can or should blame them.
April 3rd, 2017 at 4:53 pm
Frank Gore made a bad choice going to Indy….that guy is a machine! He STILL has the juice and is on the wrong team. Age isnt always a factor when motivation is there.
April 3rd, 2017 at 5:11 pm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MartCu00.htm
Curtis Martin ran for a combined 2,432 yards at ages 31 and 32. He was the leagues leading rusher in 2004, and the oldest RB ever to earn the title.
April 3rd, 2017 at 5:40 pm
@ Hawaiian
Nothing about AP says Patriots. There is another underlying reason why they brought him in for a visit. Belichick works out every player under the sun, only 9/10 you won’t hear about it because they are discreet about those things. Why suddenly was this visit leaked and made public? A favor to his agent? A ploy to get Blount to sign? Both more probable reasons than them actually signing him.
C’mon, you’re not this niave.
April 3rd, 2017 at 6:56 pm
@gotbbucs,
First of all, Bellicheck doesn’t work out guys unless he’s interested. It’s naive to think he even needs to create a ploy to sign anyone. It’s even more naive to think he would do anything as a favor to anyone. He’s Bill MF Bellicheck! He does what he wants, when he wants to. I guarantee you the interest is there, but he won’t overpay him.
And to me, everything about AD (people still can’t comprehend he doesn’t go by AP, but whatever at this point) does say Patriots. Bellicheck isn’t scared to go after an older player. AD wants to win. He’s a great locker room guy, a hard worker, and fills a position of need for them. I don’t expect anyone to sign him until after the draft, but I definitely expect NE to be in the running.
April 3rd, 2017 at 7:43 pm
Joe, I will see your Warrick Dunn and raise you a Charlie Garner.
April 3rd, 2017 at 8:54 pm
How has no one acknowledged db55 post from earlier about ap cook Martin mixon quiz and Simms?
I meannn…what?!
April 3rd, 2017 at 9:30 pm
I’d love to see Big Mike Alstott come back so we could actually score from the 1 yard line and not watch Aguileriorio miss a chip shot.