Where Are They Now?
January 11th, 2017
The bawling over Lovie Smith’s firing looks awfully infantile now.
Remember all the whining and braying and hollering last year from so many Lovie Smith apologists who freaked out like Hollywood elitists over Donald Trump’s election when Smith was run out the door of One Buc Palace by Team Glazer for lousy work?
Well, Joe hasn’t, and Joe is tempted to call each and every one out. Problem is, Joe has better things to write.
In retrospect, after winning Bucs coach Dirk Koetter guided the Pewter Pirates to more wins in his first year than Lovie totaled in two seasons combined, the bellyaching sure looks juvenile, doesn’t it?
The Bucs defense, woeful under the boot of Lovie, improved dramatically this past season and Mike Sando of BSPN writes that would not have happened with Lovie.
The Bucs made big changes and then gained ground in the standings. To what degree were the big changes responsible for those gains? Replacing Lovie Smith with Dirk Koetter as head coach enabled the hiring of Mike Smith as defensive coordinator, which seemed to be a big positive. First-round pick Vernon Hargreaves III and second-rounder Noah Spence played extensively, made positive impacts and improved as they gained experience.
This is as obvious as the sun setting over the Gulf of Mexico. If Lovie had been retained, we would have been subjected to more of the same: hideous pass defense that would better resemble a Pasco County high school seven-on-seven summer league than an NFL pass defense.
There is just no way in the world stubborn Lovie would have ever hired a competent defensive coordinator like Mike Smith and kept his mitts off. In Lovie’s first season, Leslie Frazier seemed to be making some progress in the latter weeks of 2014. Then Lovie promptly clipped his wings and took over the defense, much to the horror of Bucs fans.
Looking back about a year ago, the freakout nationally over Lovie’s firing sure reminds Joe of a parent telling his three-year old not to put the bag of M&Ms on the grocery store checkout belt.
A whole lot of the Lovie Mafia members sure filled their diapers last January.
January 11th, 2017 at 1:11 pm
The Lovie mafia went the way of the Glennon mob… deep hiding.
January 11th, 2017 at 1:14 pm
I agree
Boy! What a year makes!
January 11th, 2017 at 1:18 pm
Please call them out by name or better yet call them stupid, ignorant, sad and pathetic cuz that’s what they are. Always wrong about everything they say yet have the audacity to call others names. Pitiful is what it is.
Add those who wanted Mariota, Conte, and Josh McClown. They should all give up their fan cards and stfu. I’m talking to you St Pete.
January 11th, 2017 at 1:19 pm
How about a Noah Spence update. Heard he had surgery to repair a fully torn labrum
January 11th, 2017 at 1:24 pm
I’m not going to lie I was one of those people Joe but I accepted it & at the start of the season I saw why lovie was shown the door
January 11th, 2017 at 1:24 pm
What’s to “update” if you already know?
Joe will have a fresh story on Spence forthcoming.
January 11th, 2017 at 1:26 pm
I agree, however, I remember The Lambs and buc killer Case Keenum killin us again, and not to forget the record breaking completion % day by the rookie Dak Prescott. That was ugly.
January 11th, 2017 at 1:31 pm
Anyone remember the Joes insisting at the end of incompetent Lovie Smith’s 2nd season that he wasn’t going anywhere?
January 11th, 2017 at 1:31 pm
I never hid. Nor I’m a hiding now!! Hide for what? Fear of you guys insulting me? Hell,, I feed off of insults! Lovies gone. History. I still thnk he should have been given another yr. So What? Will my mortgage go unpaid? Nope. And just because the bucs were 9-7 means didly. I remember a team who won the superbowl and had a losng season the next!! (Hint..Bucs!) So don’t stick your chest out to far..just yet. The TB Bucs gotta lot of work to do. A lot. Now come on with it..Lets hear the retorts.
January 11th, 2017 at 1:35 pm
Yeah, well just wait until the Illini are in the college football playoff nexBWWHWHWHHHAAAAAHHAAAHHA
Sorry, I tried to keep a straight face.
January 11th, 2017 at 1:39 pm
Was convinced Jameis (and Dirk Koetter) saved his job.
January 11th, 2017 at 1:40 pm
DB 55
Add those who wanted Mariota, Conte, and Josh McClown. They should all give up their fan cards and stfu. I’m talking to you St Pete.
C’mon man ya gotta do better than that. Those three things are all absolutely false. I did not want MM. #3′ biggest supporter 87 can vouch that while I was concerned initially about the “off field” stuff once I realized #3 was a good guy I was all on board and have been a huge supporter of #3.
Again…I never thought about Conte..he was hired to fill a hole until we could get better players…I didn’t really waste much time on Conte one way or the other because he was always a temporary short fix.
As for McClown…wow are you wrong. I was a borderline MGMer if anything.
I had respect for MG8 and believed he should have played that entire season so we could find out what we really had.
Now we DO disagree about GMC…not sure if you’re on Dallas Buc’s berate Licht bandwagon…that would make us disagree there…otherwise that’s it.
Your post is the equivalent of me typing…can you believe DB55 lobbied so hard for us to sign Ghost Johnson and Anthony Collins? I don’t recall you doing that but I could make it up. lol
January 11th, 2017 at 1:40 pm
Time to move on from Lovie. He is busy teaching his defense cover two inside the cornfields.
Lovie will will be fired in 2 years.
we should be grateful lovie personally brought in Jameis and Kwon Alexander. He knew what he had in kwon and made him a instant starter and personally ran the defense to develop Kwon himself.
Im sure after Lovie gets fired from Illinois, we will get more and clear details of the tampa bay shakesperean backstab betrayal play
January 11th, 2017 at 1:49 pm
I said at the time, I felt Lovie got a raw deal, and I still believe it.
But I also said that if I had to choose between keeping Lovie or keeping Koetter, I chose Dirk…simply because I’ve seen too many Bucs QBs messed up by multiple OCs. At least promoting Koetter meant keeping him around to work with Winston.
January 11th, 2017 at 1:53 pm
I also said that the reason Lovie got a raw deal was because he was hired before Licht was, and since GMs usually have a role in coaching searches, that meant Licht would want him out of there.
Plus Lovie got blamed for the things that were clearly Licht’s fault. I didn’t have an issue with Lovie getting blamed for the things he should have been blamed for…such as bad coaching. But free agency? That was almost 100% on Jason Licht. HE should have been held accountable.
Thankfully, he is finally improving in that area (slightly)…although his tendency to go after injury prone players shined this past season with all the injuries.
January 11th, 2017 at 1:53 pm
StPeteBucsFan Says:
December 17th, 2014 at 1:30 pm
This is my concern with Jameis. I haven’t totally written him off yet but I think another year in school to prove he’s actually grown up when he turns 21 next month would make me a lot bigger Jameis fan. Is that too much to ask.
Just one more year Jameis. Show your true colors!!!
January 11th, 2017 at 1:55 pm
Joe, I look for you guys as the verifiers. Too much hear say on the net. Plus what are the Bucs saying about recovery? Kid needs to put on weight. Sorry about being anxious but I don’t have the same phone numbers as you 🙂
January 11th, 2017 at 1:56 pm
I said at the time, I felt the fans got a raw deal, and I still believe it!!!!!
Licht should have made that phone call a year earlier to save this franchise!!!! I know the Glazers were borderline on canning the incompetent one right then and there!!! they gave him another year against one of the softest schedules and he was simply non-competitive!!!!! He was exposed and even the Tampa-2 mafia cannot deny it!!!!!!
It was so painful to know the truth!!! To see it all so clearly and to hear the sheep rattle on the excuses they were feed by the Tampa2 mafia!!!!!
But now that they have seen the truth!!! Seen how fun a well coached team is , even the sheep came back to graze on the right side!!!!!!
The fight was was worth it , as now we all can enjoy the fruits of The Bucs Success!!!
Coaching Improvement Indeed!!!!!!
Go Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!
January 11th, 2017 at 1:57 pm
It doesn’t matter, but the team was building towards where it is at now. I think the team would have the same record with Lovie, but who knows. I think Koetter had some growing pains but the team is looking like they could be a contender for the near future.
January 11th, 2017 at 2:02 pm
@Syl
If coach my scheme had been the coach this past year, there would have been 4-12, the players would have quit on coach my scheme and by November we would have been talking about who the new coach would be!!!!!!!
And thats “REAL”!!!!!!!!!!!
Go Bucs!!!!!!!!!!!
January 11th, 2017 at 2:10 pm
” If Lovie had been retained, we would have been subjected to more of the same: hideous pass defense that would better resemble a Pasco County high school seven-on-seven summer league than an NFL pass defense.”
Joes, you guys owe all of Pasco County an apology!
January 11th, 2017 at 2:14 pm
Lovie had a lot of unwarranted love from the national media. My guess is they didn’t watch many Bucs games.
January 11th, 2017 at 2:15 pm
He was exposed and even the Tampa-2 mafia cannot deny it!!!!!!
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But but the entire league said, people who get paid to analyze said, why would I listen to you? You’re just a JBF poster, blah blah blah.
“It takes time”.
January 11th, 2017 at 2:16 pm
JMN Says:
January 11th, 2017 at 2:14 pm
Lovie had a lot of unwarranted love from the national media. My guess is they didn’t watch many Bucs games.
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Same thing is happening with McCoy.
January 11th, 2017 at 2:28 pm
Exactly DB55 everyone says, “but the media votes McCoy as a All Pro so what do you know”. These voters are the same people that said firing Lovie was the wrong move. Just proves they don’t watch the Bucs games and just look at stats, like Defense yards allowed or sacks.
January 11th, 2017 at 2:35 pm
“But free agency? That was almost 100% on Jason Licht. HE should have been held accountable.”
Nope.
Lovie Smith had final say over every single personnel decision – that was his contract. That means that at a minimum he was signing off on every single decision in FA.
Lovie was quoted as saying we needed change on the O-line – not Light.
Lovie was the one whose scheme dictated the swap of Revis and his salary dollars for Verner, McDonald, & Johnson – since his scheme doesn’t need a shut down man corner.
And don’t tell me Mike Jenkins & Tim Jennings were Light guys lol..
It’s pretty obvious to me … This was the first of season where Light had personnel control and the power to out-rank the coach when it comes to who we signed; and it was the best FA signing period we’ve had since Light’s been here. That isn’t a coincidence imo.
January 11th, 2017 at 2:46 pm
LC
All true but don’t forget the tb media in their infinite wisdom said Penn was washed up. Funny how the Raiders don’t see it that way. Homie is in the playoffs and I think he made the pro bowl or all pro too.
Yet another example of how much the experts really know.
January 11th, 2017 at 2:48 pm
Hey Realist we’re on the same side for change.
Lovie did NOT get a raw deal. His own rock hard head and all the nepotism and refusal to listen to anybody around him are why he was fired.
And I do not disagree with your assessment Realist but I think even you feared if Lovie had exhibited even a scintilla of flexibility he would have gotten that 3rd year.
DB 55 I’m flattered that you keep a file of my old posts…wow…but reread and you see nothing in there about MM being better or any questions about #3 except for his maturity. I still believe that. I’m glad we got him…so I’m glad he came out early…I did not mind winning just six games with rookie kid…
But there can be little doubt that #3 would have been a better player coming out if he had another year’s experience and maturity. Fortunately for us the young man grew up in a nanosecond. And now that we’ve paid our dues #3 is going to lead us to the promised land.
January 11th, 2017 at 2:54 pm
This was the first of season where Light had personnel control and the power to out-rank the coach when it comes to who we signed; and it was the best FA signing period we’ve had since Light’s been here. That isn’t a coincidence imo.
I agree completely LC.
And so Buc Bonzai do you have sources or quotes or anything that would make us feel that a rigid, inflexible, my way or the highway kind of guy, who insisted on full roster control as an HC went to his GM and said…hey find me some guys.
Sorry…you may be right… I wasn’t there that’s for sure…but given the nature of the personalities involved…Licht…go along to get along…Lovie…I’m the man I simply find it hard to believe.
January 11th, 2017 at 2:56 pm
@Stpetebucsfan
I was sure it was going to happen!!! That coach my scheme was going to be canned!!!!!
But then it did not happen on “black Monday” And I was promising ” to shut the JBF comments down because I was going to go beast mode on everything!!!! Then days later it happened and I was sooo relieved!!!!! I was getting so antsy that I even riled up Tampabaybucfan and that is hard to do!!!!
January 11th, 2017 at 3:06 pm
@Stpetebucfan
I was begging!!!!!!!!
The Buc Realist Says:
January 3rd, 2016 at 8:35 pm
@ The Glazers
These are not tough times!!! It is time to be Tough!!!! Stand up and pull this Franchise out of the garbage!!!! Do not do what is easy and keep the status quo and watch your business flounder!!!!
Now is time to lead!!! If you do what is hard and make the right decision, years from fans will talk about how the owners took over the situation when it looked so bleak, And carried this Franchise back to greatness!!!!
You have to take that chance Mr Glazers!!!!!!!!
January 11th, 2017 at 3:09 pm
After that Thursday night game vs Seattle last season, I knew lovie was out. It was a great move. I was so upset seeing how everyone was saying the bucs are Cleveland browns of the south. Nothing else needs to be said, the bucs are winners again. Thank you Coach Koetter
January 11th, 2017 at 3:10 pm
It’s the Thursday night game vs the Rams. Not sure how I got those two confused.
January 11th, 2017 at 3:14 pm
The only thing worse than the crying over Lovie’s firing is a “rock star” apologist……..
One fact remains. No Lovie. No Jameis.
January 11th, 2017 at 3:15 pm
Very true. Joe will forever thank Lovie for not listening to Tony Dungy.
January 11th, 2017 at 3:16 pm
SPBF
Don’t flatter yourself although as you say I’m a sad pathetic ignorant fool I know how to research too.
And now you’re just lying to yourself. All you kept talking about during the run up to the draft was the FHRITP meme Jameis yell out in the lunchroom. You were so concerned about the allegation by KB and his maturity etc that you were convinced mariota was the right choice. I know your memory is probably starting to go.
St Pete, don’t start nothing won’t be nothing. But you tried the wrong one son. Now you get to deal with my ignance.
January 11th, 2017 at 3:17 pm
Imagine another year of “simple as that”…might be discussing the Bucs move to Toronto right about now LOL…
January 11th, 2017 at 3:20 pm
Had Lovie been here we would have drafted Hargreaves, only to have him sit on the bench while Mike Jenkins gets roasted every other play. Now there were some things that maybe Lovie got a little too much of the blame for, but even the most hardcore Lovie fanatic could see what a mess he made personel wise. Such as our musical cornerback’s and Josh McCown to name a few.
No one cany deny that Koetter has been a welcome upgrade. As far as caling ppl out how about “Screamin A Smith” for suggesting that firing Lovie was racially motivated and nothing more than another piece for his race baiting narrative. I would love to call him out face to face.
January 11th, 2017 at 3:28 pm
DB55
I’m not going to search the JBF archives. I remember that pretty clearly however. Like the ENTIRE(except for FSU faithful who knew better) world I was concerned at first about off field immaturity.
87 had to bring me along and convince me it was just immaturity. He did and I was fine. I was never a large MM supporter although I conceded he’ll probably be a good QB. I remember clearly rooting for an SB showdown between #3 and MM.
But I’ll let it go if you wish because IMHO that was the very lowest point on the JBF board. I recall fighting with several guys over their racist comments about #3. Thanks goodness we don’t have to go back there again.
January 11th, 2017 at 3:31 pm
@syl…I agree with you….lovie helped build the foundation that we have currently….dirk was hired to get us over the hump and into the playoffs…he hasn’t done that yet….people feared the lost of dirk but I never thought he was going anywhere….he’s been in the league for a while and never got serious hc consideration….jameis had more to do with the turn around than licht, dirk or lovie….but it is what it is….
lovie is out…dirk is in and we’re still not in the playoffs….and people are happy about that!!…SMDH…GO BUCS!!!
January 11th, 2017 at 3:43 pm
813 you cant seriously think with this teams schedule this team did not improve dramatically over last years team, which played the easiest schedule in the league and still had a worse record. For real man at some point just give up as there is no way you are anyone believes this team did not improve leaps and bounds.
January 11th, 2017 at 3:47 pm
I’m still here Joe, and I was wrong. I’ve been wrong before and I’ll be wrong again. No shame.
January 11th, 2017 at 3:52 pm
Lovie would’ve kept his job if he took my empty Cheerio’s boxes and set it in front of slanting WRs!
I think he should’ve gotten a 3rd year, like Bonzai I stand by that. However, given the outcome, if I had a choice between he and Koetter, it’s Koetter all day. The record doesn’t lie.
Coaching was not the only improvement, talent played a large part as well.
January 11th, 2017 at 3:53 pm
DB55 Says:
SPBF
All you kept talking about during the run up to the draft was the FHRITP meme Jameis yell out in the lunchroom. You were so concerned about the allegation by KB and his maturity etc that you were convinced mariota was the right choice.
————————————————————
I don’t agree with DB a lot of times – but he’s certainly right in this case. SPBF did not approach the hater status – spewing constant and unfounded venom at JW that posters like Robert and SuperSam and Erik and so many others did leading up to the draft. But SPBF was certainly not on board with drafting Winston #1 and did not warm up to him until months afterwards when it became apparent that he was not a problem personality and was in fact highly talented and a great leader even in his rookie year.
January 11th, 2017 at 3:58 pm
The Joes may or may not have been referring to people on this website with this article about Lovie. I don’t really know that. However, I took it that they were referring to national media people who made arses out of themselves with the comments they made about the Lovie Smith firing . Guys like Stephen A Smith who was just here in Tampa and I would have loved to ask him about the Lovie Smith firing one year later.
January 11th, 2017 at 4:02 pm
Ummmm someone is misinformed.
Yes Licht had say in those free agent acquisitions but those were mainly Lovie’s mistakes.
They even said that Licht retained total player control after he was canned, indicating Lovie had a integral part in that. As soon as he retained those privileges, Ayers, Grimes, Anger etc…
Enough said….
January 11th, 2017 at 4:03 pm
St Pete
Like the ENTIRE world I was concerned at first about off field immaturity.
———–
It all makes sense now you’re nothing but a follower who doesn’t or is incapable or drawing his own conclusions. The entire league says , the entire world says, etc.
That to me is the definition of stupid, especially when you’re always led astray.
Don’t ever challenge me again! And if you do you need to come with more facts than “they said” cuz “they” don’t know jack ish. As I’ve pointed out over the last two days.
Sad cuz I actually liked you even though you write fckn books every time you post. Bye Felicia I’m done with you.
January 11th, 2017 at 4:13 pm
Pickgrin
I don’t agree with DB a lot of times – but he’s certainly right in this case. SPBF did not approach the hater status – spewing constant and unfounded venom at JW that posters like Robert and SuperSam and Erik and so many others did leading up to the draft. But SPBF was certainly not on board with drafting Winston #1 and did not warm up to him until months afterwards when it became apparent that he was not a problem personality and was in fact highly talented and a great leader even in his rookie year.
I do not disagree with your observation except for the timing. I was on board before the actual draft, although I have already conceded I was wary of the off field stuff. Once it became clear that had been thoroughly researched I was fine.
January 11th, 2017 at 4:20 pm
Wow
January 11th, 2017 at 4:24 pm
Remember back in the days of old Lovie was head coach of an NFL team. You might ask what team would make such a foolish mistake now and then.
January 11th, 2017 at 4:24 pm
@ndog…I never said they didn’t improve…they have slightly improved…but I don’t think licht made the switch for a “slight” improvement….
licht suggested that we should’ve been in the playoffs, even tho we had a rookie qb and 2 rookies on the oline, we lost vjax&kwon, no productive cb play and no pass rush….but it is what it is
but here’s the good thing….dirk has set the bar high….next year has to be playoffs….if we miss yet again, will you still be satisfied with “slight improvement”….GO BUCS!!!
January 11th, 2017 at 4:47 pm
Dude should’ve never been hired in the first place he was awful.
January 11th, 2017 at 4:50 pm
Lovies downfall in my mind was his finest quality: he was loyal to family and freinds to the bitter end. It was clear after the first year his two sons had no business coaching on his Defense….DB and QC coach. Where did the Bucs really suck the worst? Pass D and game prep. Of course you can’t fire the DC (a friend) who you are making have your two sons on his staff. So just give him a pass too. So at outbrief with the owners, Lovie makes no mention of coaching changes and instead tells them, I know this guy in Chicago I want to bring in and help us analyze the defense. I don’t think they were having any of that, any more. And there you have it.
January 11th, 2017 at 4:53 pm
I’ll add to my last just above. What happens to players when they call out the coaches for their shenanigans like Smith X 3 plus Frazier? Gone. Barron and Goldson sent away in a snap. To Lovie’s credit, he didn’t pull a “Chip” and get rid of guys like David and McCoy…
January 11th, 2017 at 4:56 pm
Given the reference to Hollywood Elitists and Trump. Any chance the Bucs would hire Meryl Streep to act (given she’s an actress) as a tackling dummy for her Golden Globe political platform (f….n joke)?
January 11th, 2017 at 5:18 pm
813bucboi Says:
January 11th, 2017 at 4:24 pm
@ndog…I never said they didn’t improve…they have slightly improved…but I don’t think licht made the switch for a “slight” improvement….”
1. Light never suggested that. He said he expected us to be more competitive than we were. We lost to some terrible teams to close out the year and throughout the year in general and were blown out every other week on average.
2. Let’s compare and try and tell me how this was just a “slight” improvement please with a straight face:
The 2015 Bucs objectively had a top 5 easy schedule based on the record of the opponents they faced.
The 2016 Bucs faced a top 5 most difficult schedule based on the record of the opponents they faced.
The 2015 Bucs ranked 26th in the league in points given up despite such an easy schedule, giving up 26.1 PPG. They did not improve as the year went on; and in fact regressed towards the end of the year– averaging 27 PPG given up the last 6 weeks of the season.
The 2016 Bucs ranked 15th in the league in points given up despite a much tougher schedule facing opponents that averaged many more points than the 2015 Buc opponents and only being in the first year of a new system. We gave up 23.1 PPG. The unit also drastically improved over the course of the year; giving up an average of just 18 PPG the last 6 weeks of the season.
The 2016 Bucs also averaged more points scored on offense (by a point) ranking 18th in the league this last year vs 20th last year; despite having less talent and no run game given the loss of Logan Mankins / ASJ / Vjax and the entire RB corps for most of the year while Doug Martin was on drugs.
The 2015 Bucs beat 0 playoff teams.
The 2016 Bucs beat 3 playoff teams – all of which are still alive after the wild card round and all could win the SB this year without it being a surprise or big upset(Atlanta / Seattle / Kansas City).
We also went from one of the worst teams in the NFL to one of the best teams in the NFL in categories like penalties / 3rd down defense / completion % allowed.
Only the biggest Lovie nut hunger would say we only “slightly” improved. If that is slight improvement then wtf were your expectations? 13 wins and a superbowl? Because that’s what you think was realistic?
I remember most people’s predictions and it was a very small minority of people who had playoff expectations. I predicted 9-7 as an optimistic hopeful prediction because our schedule looked insane. 10 of our games were against teams either in the playoffs this year or in the playoffs last year.
January 11th, 2017 at 5:36 pm
@lord c….licht made that comment plenty of time….I predicted 10wins and playoffs…and had dirk not f’ed up the clock vs the rams we may have been in the playoffs….we made slight improvement….nothing wrong with that….making the playoffs would’ve been a huge improvement….try to spin as you may be the reality is we improved by 3 games and still missed the playoffs….that’s a slight improvement….the Atlanta falcon made a huge improvement….the cowboys made a huge improvement…Oakland made a huge improvement….WE SLIGHTLY IMPROVED…get over it dude…I want the bucs to win REGARDLESS OF THE COACH…lovie is out…dirk is in…and yet we still missed the playoffs…..THATS THE REALITY!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
January 11th, 2017 at 6:19 pm
LOL @813bucboi!!!!!
Gives the incompetent one every excuse in the world, But is angry at Head Coach Koetter for not calling a timeout!!!!!!!! with 43 seconds from the 15 yard line, even though they still ran 5 plays!!!!!
The “real” football fans are made at the offense for not scoring from the 15 yard line!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!
January 11th, 2017 at 6:42 pm
No I will not but this is where we disagree because I believe it was a massive improvement as with this schedule last year we have gone 1-15. Last year we played no one but Carolina and this year the Cowboys, Falcons twice, KC, Seattle, Denver, Raiders, and talented Arizona team and beat/held our own against them. Tell me who of quality did we beat last year? Atlanta twice with a rookie head coach NO, Philly, Jax, and Dallas with no qb so who of those teams made the playoffs? That’s right none yet this year we beat Seattle, Atlanta, and KC who all won their division. So please tell me how we are not MUCH better not slightly?
January 11th, 2017 at 6:47 pm
So 813…. the Falcons made HUGE improvements? 8-8 to 11-5 is a 3 game improvement, much the same as 6-10 to 9-7….. your argument continues to be full of holes.
January 11th, 2017 at 7:36 pm
try to spin as you may be the reality is we improved by 3 games and still missed the playoffs…
3 games in a baseball season would be a slight improvement. 3 games in a hockey season would be a little better improvement. 3 games in a football season is not slight. Mathematically…perhaps instead of expressing it as just 3 games you could express it as a 33% which is more than slight at least to me.
3% is slight…33% is significant.
Thanks for all the facts Lord C….btw if you’re still around Lord C how’s the band doing?
January 11th, 2017 at 8:15 pm
Getting political… never a good idea on a sports site Joe, even if I agree with you.
Anywho as for Lovie I still say he’d have been the best match for the team this past year. Give Lovie the same defensive line play the Bucs down in the 2nd half of the season and then wow, suddenly the defense works. We sort of know in this area how the Tampa 2 does when the d-line is able to get pressure. Lovie was and is a proven NFL defensive guru, he did it year in and year out. Last year the Bucs were ranked 10th in the league in yards against. I understand people were frustrated by the zone last year but the Bucs had no secondary players. Give Lovie both Grimes and VH3, along with Ayers and Spence, and we see an even better effort compared to Lovies last year.
Regardless the big thing would have been on offense. The thing I hated about moving Dirk to head coach was that you were taking him away from being the OC – and we absolutely saw the huge negatives of that this year. Dirk was awful calling plays on the field and will have to spend the entire offseason figuring that out or just hire a legit OC to run his offense. The playcalling was horrific, it was predictable, Dirk easily got stuck in ruts of calling the same series of plays over and over, plus Dirk wasn’t working with Jameis one-on-one on a daily basis. With as good as Jameis is he’s still the 2nd youngest starting QB in football and only a 2nd year player, I think everyone would have been better off had Dirk remained the OC for another year.
If, and I said this at the time as well, if it was known someone like San Fran was going to hire Dirk then at that point yes, fire Lovie and keep Dirk because I wouldn’t want Jameis learning a whole new offense in his 2nd year. But I don’t believe that was ever going to actually happen. Additionally I don’t see how the Bucs do any worse had Lovie stayed here assuming they made the same moves in the offseason. Maybe I’m wrong – we will never know.
January 11th, 2017 at 9:00 pm
Is this a Lee or a Steve article?
Your political analogies are a bit simple minded and bothersome. I come here for my Buccaneers!! The Trump love is incredibly similar to the Johnny Manziel crush…and I thought Lovie sucked from day 1.
Please let this site be my respite from the havoc and hate.
January 11th, 2017 at 10:37 pm
See Joe, you triggered Willy and now the lib is gonna have a full and complete breakdown and won’t be able to sleep tonight to get up for work tomorrow.
LOL! A dem working. Just kidding.
Anywho politics on a sports site is bad news, just look at the libs at ESPN since they’ve gone full tard with their politics – their ratings have gone down down down.
January 11th, 2017 at 10:41 pm
Lovie firing to me was one of the best days of my sports life next to winning the super bowl and drafting Winston.
January 12th, 2017 at 2:04 am
Sooo, you believe that Dirk completely rebuilt team?
Riiiiight!
Then- I guess Dirk is winning with primarily Lovies players?
I voiced my concern about firing lovie after only Two seasons.
A) Other Cosching Candidates would be hesitant to take the job. Coaches want 3 yrs to inpliment their program. Two years is kind of a knee jerk decision.
B) Lovie improved the team from year one to year two. You dont Fire a coach who is doing what you hired him to do.
I wasnt alone in those concerns. A great many former coaches and players shared those concerns.
Now- I support the decision to promote Dirk. I have great faith in him.
But my concerns about the conditions of Lovies firing had some legit reasoning
Unlike defending the worst GM in the history of Pro sports. Or collegiate sports. Or sandlot games
Supporting Domminick is undefensible
We all have dirt on our skirts about something . . .
January 12th, 2017 at 3:06 am
You do not know if the outcome of the Bucs season would have been better or worse if Lovie was still the coach. We have to move on Joe. I know Lovie would not have allowed Jameis take the blame for losing a game as Koetter did. The Glazers moved on; I am a Bucs fan, so I have to move on. I believe the Bucs would have made the playoffs if Love was the coach this year.
January 12th, 2017 at 5:01 am
Please, enough with the political commentary. First of all, most of the country does not agree with you (he lost the popular vote) and many who voted for him held there nose. Second, if you had any brains you would want as many Bucs fans to check out your site as possible, regardless of their political affiliations.
This sucks…I am starting to think only idiots are Bucs fans. Please tell me there are some enlightened people in Tampa.
January 12th, 2017 at 8:38 am
“First of all, most of the country does not agree with you (he lost the popular vote)”
Yes those heavily populated cities like NY and L.A. voted Dem so Clinton gets the popular vote. Go figure.
Most of the country does agree with Joe…from state to state to state. Just not the blue states.
January 12th, 2017 at 9:07 am
Eletists Joe ??? Really??? You republican types are the biggest eletists of all because you guys think you’re better than everyone else. Fascism is live and kicking on JoeBucsFan.com. The right swinging/neo conservative types up here are quick to bring in their political views like calling people liberals/bleeding hearts because we disagree with them, but let someone like say me bring up their racist leanings in their hatred then that gets their panties all in a bunch. Hypocrites the whole lot of you. You constantly harp on the past but if we bring up racial injustices just at the NFL level you round up your lynch mob. You people lynch Lovie Smith up here as if he whistled at your wife or mother but give praise to Greg Schiano who was just as bad and hard headed of a coach. DallasBuc is one of the few who spew venom at the gms too
I for one supported the hiring and firing of Lovie. He was never gifted anything. He came up the ranks the right way and worked his way up to coach the Bears to the playoffs and Superbowl. There was no one much better at the time so how was it a bad hire? It became a bad hire in the 2nd season. Him being fired came at the right time but give the man credit, he had an ultimate plan to get Jameis and he tanked the season to do it the proof is in the pudding. OC quits he goes with Bazachian (?) with no experience MG8 clearly was a better qb but he stuck with McClown and in the finale we had the Saints beat but he pulled the starters. The bad thing for him was he didn’t build enough in the 2nd year with Jameis. 6-10 in a soft schedule then to lose the the last 4. Like everybody I say good riddance.
Now being that these rightswingers are immensely negative people who masquerade as positive thinkers that’s why we constantly have these references to Lovie Smith because just like Agent Smith said about humans they justify their existence through suffering. If you guys couldn’t speak your negativity you’d have nothing to talk about.
I was against Trump because of his antics but changed my mind after hearing him for real speak. All his antics were to get elected and he used the republicans to do it. He’s gonna fool a lot of people on both sides. Hillary supporters please get over it. Her chance is shot and she never should have been allowed to run instead should have been indicted for her lying.
DB55 sorry about the book.
January 12th, 2017 at 9:15 am
@bucluv
@STPETE
@realist
@lord c
….are we in the playoffs?….nuff said….slight improvement…..GO BUCS!!!!
January 12th, 2017 at 9:18 am
Why are we trying to compare last year to this year …this is what you need to know, they said the coaching change and the culture change would bring about improvement, the draft brings in new talent, Free Agency brings in starting talent, so weren’t we supposed to improve? We could replay this season right now and we still would not make the playoffs and we may not win 7 games !!im happy with the season but we ain’t ready yet ! Keep working at it tho!!
January 12th, 2017 at 9:48 am
😅😅😅😅
January 12th, 2017 at 11:22 am
“@bucluv
@STPETE
@realist
@lord c
….are we in the playoffs?….nuff said….slight improvement…..GO BUCS!!!!”
LOL
LOL LOL
813 is losing it!!!
You literally said that Atlanta had HUGE improvement – our f*cking division rival – you’re going to use them as an example! They improved by the same amount of games as us!!!! LOL !!!
That’s all I needed to hear to know you’re just still butthurt from being wrong about so many hater driven things you said early in the year. You can’t even man up to it which is really annoying– you’ve somehow twisted things and convinced yourself that you were actually making good points when no one except you would agree and you’re still the only person besides maybe a couple lovie nut huggers that would think we just “slightly” improved.
For one – the dirk to Tomsula comparison was just stupid – even if they would have won the same amount of games. They have had COMPLETELY different careers and had completely different pedigrees going into their HC gig. It’s one of the dumbest comparisons I’ve ever seen anyone make here – and you can’t even admit it was f*cking stupid and hate driven.
You’re annoying to deal with because I can lay out 100 logical facts and arguments; and you will just pick one single statistic or one single data point or one single metric of accomplishment that we didn’t do well in and use that one thing as the basis for your entire argument while ignoring everything else. That’s why I can’t take you seriously. You prefer to remain or at least act extremely naïve.
Second – only a crazy a4shole would set playoff expectations for the Bucs as a barometer of success or improvement for a 1st year HC. We haven’t been to the playoffs in TEN YEARS! What the hell is wrong with you? Have you been following this team? When the F8ck did playoffs become the expectation and standard? How about not being one of the biggest piece of sh1t teams in football? Because that’s what we’ve been dude in case you haven’t been paying attention. That’s what we’ve been for the most part the last decade – a team averaging like 4-5 wins a year getting blown the f*ck out every other week. If you can’t see the major difference between that and what we did last year … well may god have mercy on your soul.
January 12th, 2017 at 11:38 am
@lord c….your losing it….atl is in the playoffs….we are not….the falcons made an huge improvement…they’re in the playoffs….the sad part is that you have excepted not making the playoffs as a successful season….what did Winston say….he said this is not an successful season….but losers like yourself and other like to try to spin things….I see im more like Winston while you and others are satisfied and think this season was an success just like GMC….be happy with not making the playoffs again….good for you….you act as if we didn’t get blown out 3 times this year(arz,denver,atl)….SMDH…LOL…
if lovie won 6 games while being incompetent, rookies starting on offense and a outdated defense, surely dirk and smitty could’ve gotten us into the playoffs….or maybe not….
keep making excuses….you make yourself sound real dumb….keep convincing yourself that this was a successful season just like GMC, while winners like myself Winston and other keep striving for greatness….or at least playoffs!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!
January 12th, 2017 at 11:39 am
““We could replay this season right now and we still would not make the playoffs and we may not win 7 games !!i”
Why the hell would you say that? Do you realize we finished the year 6-2 while going 2-2 against 4 of the top playoff teams?
Sorry but if you’re a fan you’re a really sh1tty fan lol. Even non-Bucs fans would think “wtf is wrong with you” if you said that after the year we had
January 12th, 2017 at 11:58 am
813 you’re a twisty little snake. You never address any of my points – simply just ignore them and hang on to whatever new metric of accomplishment you decide to invent – which right now is the playoffs. I don’t recall you saying playoff or bust all during the season; but it’s literally the ONLY thing you have left to support your bullsh1t so it’s become your new mantra.
I didn’t say this season was “successful” and we should all pat ourselves on the back. I said we made way more than a “slight” improvement – and gave a million statistics / facts / and objective measurable proof of it. Those aren’t excuses – those are data to measure improvement. We improved in like every f*ckign thing imaginable except our run game; and improved our win total by 50%. But keep changing whatever standard you want to fit your hatred.
Also lol at someone saying “winners like myself and Winston” – I don’t even know what to say to that.
First it was 5 wins – Tomsula?
then will we match Lovie’s total?
Then it was winning season?
now it’s we didn’t make playoffs?
Next year you’ll say we only barely improved if we go to the SB and lose.
And I’m the one “spinning” lmao. What a dishonest statement. I’ve been consistent as F8ck in my statements about this team all freaking year dude. I predicted our 9-7 record. I don’t need to twist anything because the team met my exact expectations which were grounded in reality while yours are grounded in “wah wah they fired Lovie so I’m going to set an unrealistic standard to judge the next coach by!”
I want the team to win the SB every year – but it doesn’t make me a “loser” to expect less than that lol. It’s called – for lack of any better term – being a “realist”. Are all Browns fans losers if they are just hoping for a winning season? Or are they just being hopeful and realistic?
Next year I will expect playoffs – because that’s a reasonable position to take now given recent trajectory / talent / staff. It was unreasonable to take that position for a team with a first year HC and 10 year playoff drought coming off a 6-10 season while facing one of the easiest schedules we’ve ever had. Seriously – only you would think that was a reasonable expectation – I think Joe predicted 8 wins and many predicted 7-9 wins given the schedule – is everyone but you a “loser” ? Because then you’re just being an a4shole.
I hope you realize you and maybe bighoghaynes are seriously the only 2 people thinking like this and being negative about what just happened – the entire fan base disagrees with you.
You’d think that when you’re the only person thinking a certain way maybe you should re-evaluate your perspective.
But with you there is absolutely 0 accountability for anything you say – so there is no point in engaging you anymore. I will own my sh1t when I’m wrong – ask Realist or others. You won’t own anything. Simple as that.
January 12th, 2017 at 12:03 pm
@ ST Pete
Meant to respond earlier but 813 is driving me crazy lol. You know its my pet peeve when people hate on this team and use dumb logic and reasoning in support of their negative agenda. I can’t get over it for whatever reason lol. I feel like I’m in a different universe reading his posts sometimes.
ANyway the band is doing great! We’re booking a bunch of shows now for 2017 in Denver and surrounding areas; and will be recording 6 songs in the form of a 4 song EP and 2 singles that we plan on putting out by summer. I’ll definitely let you know when we put new stuff out
Also trying to build a house next year after I sell my FL townhouse – so if that goes well I will have a man-cave studio of sort and can really get into recording again – probably will be making some electronic music on the side since it’s something I’ve always wanted to mess with
January 12th, 2017 at 2:55 pm
don’t recall you saying playoff or bust all during the season…
Actually, myself, @michaeljohnson and @bighog have been saying that since dirk was hired…..LOL….
LOL….we made slight improvement while missing the playoffs yet again…..spin all the facts you want but the reality is we’re not in the playoffs….#dumba$$loser…..GO BUCS!!!!
January 12th, 2017 at 2:56 pm
@Lord….stick to the music because football and knowledge of it aint your thing!!!!…LOLOLOL…GO BUCS!!!!
January 12th, 2017 at 6:27 pm
LC laying the bitch slapping on think today. Don’t know where you find the energy to deal with these uneducated football fans.
January 12th, 2017 at 6:28 pm
Thick…
#TheWinstonKoetterConnection
January 12th, 2017 at 9:47 pm
The whinnying from those that wanted the old dried up corrupt white woman to win is very very entertaining, but still, let’s please not make it a habit. For the same reason Mike Evans was a stupid cuck for sitting during the pledge, people don’t want to hear about politics when they’re watching and reading about sports. Evans thankfully either figured out what a moron he was and didn’t let it happen again so I think he got a pass by most of the fans, but Joe look at those NFL ratings – anyone that doesn’t think that is the result of no one breaking Kap’s neck is nuts, if someone went out there and put Kap in a wheelchair for the rest of his life so he wouldn’t have to worry about standing for anything, then that player would instantly be the most popular person in the league. ESPN who thinks people want far left causes mixed in with their sports scores, that’s the reason their ratings have tanked. The NFL can’t really do much about people not standing for the pledge, and nor should they have the right to (I want to know who the cucks are so I can cheer when they get their legs broke) the NFL could have told its broadcast partners to not show the protests and not to talk about it – they do have that right, and if that was the case you’d see these dumb kucks stop doing it the moment they realized they wouldn’t get attention for it.