Doug Martin’s Struggles
December 18th, 2016
Trying to solve riddle to production woes.
So what is the issue with Doug Martin?
Everyone’s favorite Muscle Hamster is having his worst year as a pro. He’s averaging just three yards a carry.
Yes, the effort is there. Very much so. Some of his touchdowns, Joe has no idea how he squirted through the middle of a pileup at the line of scrimmage.
Joe is of the mind Martin, who will be 28 next month, might just be losing a step. We all know what happens to running backs the closer they get to 30.
However, data-driving Thomas Bassinger of the Tampa Bay Times goes deep on this issue and he seems to think Martin’s struggles may have more to do with defenders penetrating behind the line of scrimmage than anything else.
Bucs running backs have been tackled at or behind the line of scrimmage on 23 percent of their runs, the third-highest rate. That’s up from 20 percent last season, which was around league-average.
The lack of running room has contributed to a low success rate in short-yardage situations (third and fourth downs with 2 or fewer yards to go, for example), a strength for the Bucs last season, when they converted seven out of 10 such runs. They’re converting three out of 10 this season.
Joe doesn’t dispute Bassinger’s information at all, but it begs the following questions: Bassinger’s information that Martin has run for 331 of his 379 after contact comes from the PFF tribe. Joe is not knocking the PFF tribe here. They do some good stuff (like yards after contact). However, Martin ran behind a truly atrocious line in 2014, one of the worst (if you believe PFF) in the NFL with the likes of Anthony Collins, Josh Allen and Garrett Gilkey up front.
So how is it Martin got better production behind that swinging saloon door of a line and not this line, which Joe maintains is not that bad? (Dirk Koetter last week even said on the record “The offensive line is fine.”)
Besides, with the exception of dancing Charles Sims, who simply cannot run between the tackles, all other Bucs running backs have a higher average per carry than Martin (Sims has 3.0, just like Martin)?
While Joe does not dispute Martin may be dodging would-be tacklers behind the line, it still doesn’t explain others having better production or Martin previously having better production behind sieves.
Joe was once talking with an NFL executive a year ago about running backs. The executive told Joe the first thing to go in a running back when he approaches 30 is speed. When Joe and the executive later began talking about Martin specifically, Joe was told that Martin was never known as a speedster to begin with.
The dots seem to suggest this is what is happening. Joe sure as heck would love to be proved wrong tonight and see Martin run for about 125 yards and two scores.
December 18th, 2016 at 5:25 pm
Trade him for a third round pick!
December 18th, 2016 at 5:33 pm
You keep looking for answers and I don’t know why. The run blocking has not been there except for probably two games. A big part of that is defenses doubling Evans am loading up the box to stop the run.
December 18th, 2016 at 5:33 pm
You keep looking for answers and I don’t know why. The run blocking has not been there except for probably two games. A big part of that is defenses doubling Evans am loading up the box to stop the run.
December 18th, 2016 at 5:36 pm
I think he has to get back in shape…believe this is his 4th game back…we’ll see
December 18th, 2016 at 5:37 pm
Dude… I commented just that like 3 weeks ago… Sheesh!!!!
December 18th, 2016 at 5:39 pm
you can’t compare yards per carry of any our running backs.Due to injuries
Martin faced different defenses than Rogers did. Although Rogers ran for 0 yards on two carries, last week.Some of it is teams gear up to stop the run,
especially against Martin who was very good last year.Martin may not have
the same burst as last year,but the blocking has not been as good.
I want to see Martin repeat training regimen of last year,which he credited
his success to last year.
December 18th, 2016 at 5:47 pm
Bucs fans shouldn’t sugarcoat anything when it comes to d Martin. ……….he’s simply not an effective back for the bucs anymore.
……he’s older now and has sustained too many injuries and we all are seeing it play out from week to week……
I think he’s a great short yardage back…..but not a back to carry the full load.
December 18th, 2016 at 5:52 pm
Give it a rest Joe! Nothing will change this season. I see the Bucs drafting a RB next year, but only after they get a top tier lineman. I’m not knocking our line, but like every position you have to keep getting better.
December 18th, 2016 at 6:01 pm
if bucs want to win consistently they can not devote so much cap space to UNRELIABLE so called stars. It’s that simple. 22 is not consistent nor reliable
December 18th, 2016 at 6:07 pm
I believe the yards after contact are more telling than yards per carry. Las week Martin had a 1yd TD that was 6 yards after contact. Lighten up people. When MArtin runs on 1st & 2nd down resulting in a 3rd >5 that Winston converts to move the chains, that is effective running and ball control.
December 18th, 2016 at 6:18 pm
Joe your beating a dead horse!
December 18th, 2016 at 6:25 pm
It’s like your purposefully ignoring what many have told you. Rodgers’ numbers are inflated from playing the worst run defense in the last 35 years. THAT’S YOUR ANSWER
December 18th, 2016 at 6:25 pm
Who gives a phuck! Just Whoop them Cowgirls tonight!!!!
Ain’t it game time yet???????
December 18th, 2016 at 6:54 pm
The only way the Bucs win tonight will depend on a stout offensive line. If the penetration continues you will see negative runs, which will lead to numerous sacks and interceptions. The offensive line must perform or it will be a long night for Winston.
December 18th, 2016 at 6:54 pm
inaccurate to compare 2014 to present.creampuff schedule 2014 .This is a very tough schedule with far better defenses than 2014.
December 18th, 2016 at 6:57 pm
Never give a RB a 2nd contract unless he is truly special, that’s the lesson to be learned here.
December 18th, 2016 at 6:58 pm
Jags fire gus Bradley
December 18th, 2016 at 7:03 pm
Well with Rodgers inactive let’s hope he cures his struggles
December 18th, 2016 at 7:10 pm
Why is Rodgers out??????
December 18th, 2016 at 7:11 pm
Healthy scratch…guess they fee they are good with Sims, Martin and Barber
December 18th, 2016 at 7:21 pm
I don’t think Doug is the problem. I think the offensive line is. What was the average opponent run defense ranking this year verses last year? Are we facing much better rush defenses?
December 18th, 2016 at 7:44 pm
I don’t know what Martin’s issue is or if it is even Martin but I do know we need to win these games. Nobody else is doing us any favors. I’m looking at you Bears, who found a way to grasp defeat out of the jaws of victory.
P.S. I predict John Fox gets the boot.
December 18th, 2016 at 7:55 pm
The issue is teams are loading up 8 and 9 man fronts and Jameis either lackst the ability or permission to get out of running plays. Add that to the Bucs playing with a lead a lot lately and teams really stacking the run.
You want to run better? Start passing on 1st down and running on 2nd down. Simple as that really.
December 18th, 2016 at 7:58 pm
None of the running backs are doing anything lately is not just Martin. I wasted to draft a running back but we didn’t do I’m rolling with what we got. People come on here and talk all kinds of garbage about the guy but if he puts up huge numbers tonight you’ll look like fake fans. The bucs have won 5 straight games and some idiot named Joe keeps talking about dog Martin struggles as if anyone else has put up but numbers lately.
December 18th, 2016 at 8:10 pm
Dont care about Martin at the moment. Getting really nervous for this coming game. This is the most important game since 2002. I believe if we lose, we are most likely out of the playoffs. If we win, the ramifications are mind blowing. If we can beat Dallas this week after they lost last week, we can litterally beat anyone, at least in the NFC. I CANT TAKE IT! Need more BEER!
December 18th, 2016 at 8:15 pm
LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOO I BELIEVE, do YOU?!???
December 18th, 2016 at 8:16 pm
Gonna be a good game tonight buying jersey of the game MVP for the Bucs when they win
December 18th, 2016 at 8:19 pm
Have not been this nervous in a long time before a Bucs game.
December 18th, 2016 at 8:21 pm
Lets do this!!!
December 18th, 2016 at 8:21 pm
Joe you sleep where is the open thread.
December 18th, 2016 at 8:30 pm
So the information points to defenses penetrating the o line a quarter of the time. And you are still question where the production is?
Martin was unfortunately injured during the easy run defenses. You keep looking at the stats. Stop looking at stats and look at the film. Your career revolves around the bucs. Instead of trusting the stat nerds why not do the research yourself? NFL game pass isnt expensive and it gives you all the angles you need to do the right research. Joe(s), you are heroes to us regular joes. Take it a step further and be super heroes. Break down the film and five us your analysis, not this second hand crap that can’t be trusted. We trust you Joe.
December 18th, 2016 at 8:33 pm
No open thread 🙁
Guess we’ll use the latest…this one
December 18th, 2016 at 8:33 pm
Is this the game thread?
December 18th, 2016 at 8:34 pm
Load the box and stop the run….that will stop their strongest asset.
December 18th, 2016 at 8:34 pm
No game thread??
Umm, their O Line is literally tossing us around like dolls. Looking like th eearly 2016 Bucs D
December 18th, 2016 at 8:35 pm
ok lets go BUCS!
December 18th, 2016 at 8:35 pm
Im using it as the game thread 😀
December 18th, 2016 at 8:36 pm
SACKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SPENCE!!!!!!!!!!
December 18th, 2016 at 8:37 pm
There it is boys. Hold them
December 18th, 2016 at 8:37 pm
He ll Yes!
December 18th, 2016 at 8:37 pm
Miss it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 18th, 2016 at 8:38 pm
Ran outta gas….YES!
December 18th, 2016 at 8:39 pm
Held them
December 18th, 2016 at 8:39 pm
Yeah baby. Aguayp would have nailed that. JK. But that’s a good job by our D
December 18th, 2016 at 8:39 pm
Hope our offense can step up this week.
December 18th, 2016 at 8:40 pm
Game on!!!!!!!! We got dis
December 18th, 2016 at 8:40 pm
Come on Joes, I understand theres some dissension but we’re all still here. The game thread would be nice 🙂
December 18th, 2016 at 8:41 pm
Go Dougy!
December 18th, 2016 at 8:42 pm
PI
December 18th, 2016 at 8:42 pm
Not good seeing JW miss the easy throw. I hope he calms himself down. We need him to be on.
December 18th, 2016 at 8:43 pm
It would be weird with out this site watching a game with my fellow bucs brothers.
December 18th, 2016 at 8:45 pm
Screw you Joes trying to run Doug out of town.
You obviously don’t watch tape properly.
Ignorant sensationalist journalism. Lazy!
December 18th, 2016 at 8:45 pm
HUMP!
December 18th, 2016 at 8:45 pm
Where is the game day thread????
December 18th, 2016 at 8:46 pm
gay
December 18th, 2016 at 8:46 pm
Alright Roberto! Easy one…..
December 18th, 2016 at 8:47 pm
Umm, no penalty. Oh yeah, this is America’s team. Your darn straight that would have been called against us.
December 18th, 2016 at 8:47 pm
Well we did score first f yes
December 18th, 2016 at 8:47 pm
GJ Roberto!
December 18th, 2016 at 8:47 pm
This is the game day thread, Joes forgot, distracted by their Doug Martin controversy obsession.
December 18th, 2016 at 8:48 pm
Haha, we’re using this one Bonzai
December 18th, 2016 at 8:49 pm
First time in forever without a game day thread . Joe must of started on the Bushmill early
December 18th, 2016 at 8:49 pm
C’mon D, lock tight!!
December 18th, 2016 at 8:51 pm
Bum rushing this thread as the makeshift game thread since Joe is slipping. FIELD GOALS WILL NOT CUT IT MAN, THE OFFENSE NEEDS TO TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS.
December 18th, 2016 at 8:52 pm
Witten and Zeke!!! That should be our D’s main focus!
December 18th, 2016 at 8:54 pm
Load that box baby!
December 18th, 2016 at 8:55 pm
joe is slipping.
December 18th, 2016 at 8:55 pm
MAybe the Joes broke up
December 18th, 2016 at 8:55 pm
come on
December 18th, 2016 at 8:56 pm
Can’t let that happen.
Cowboys are feasting.
December 18th, 2016 at 8:56 pm
Boy, they did their homework and are mixing it up! ug!
December 18th, 2016 at 8:56 pm
dang the cowboys are moving easily…
and jameis need to throw in front of receivers
December 18th, 2016 at 8:57 pm
LVD is struggling mightily. Doesn’t look healthy. He just had terrible coverage on an easy route to defend
December 18th, 2016 at 8:57 pm
Yes O penalty, back em up.
December 18th, 2016 at 8:58 pm
These draw plays are killing us
December 18th, 2016 at 8:58 pm
held hem to 3, good.
December 18th, 2016 at 8:59 pm
Not yet Max. I’m hoping they don’t go for it.
December 18th, 2016 at 9:00 pm
Smh Zeke will be the end of us. They need to get their heads in the game, don’t get too cute with the play calling. They someone needs to account for zeke at all times
December 18th, 2016 at 9:02 pm
On the Bucs last drive …. Doug Martin had three nice runs in a row. Next play a fourth consecutive handoff. Defense stacks the run, Martin gets only one yard and it’s second and nine and Bucs ultimately settle for a FG.
That play was all set for a play action pass, Too many runs on first down.
December 18th, 2016 at 9:02 pm
Offense has to get something going here and score a TD.
We can’t get into a grind fest with Elliot.
Come on Jameis! You can lead this team!!!
Let’s f**king go!!!
December 18th, 2016 at 9:02 pm
Yep, I know cmurda, just going with it
@Benny, EXACTLY! Thats their best hope.
December 18th, 2016 at 9:05 pm
not a fumble, arm was going forward
December 18th, 2016 at 9:05 pm
wtf
December 18th, 2016 at 9:05 pm
F**k.
Can’t have that.
Let’s go defense!
December 18th, 2016 at 9:05 pm
I’m afraid not it was a fumble
December 18th, 2016 at 9:05 pm
dammmmit!
December 18th, 2016 at 9:05 pm
fumble
December 18th, 2016 at 9:06 pm
Martin looks good tonight and I like him as a player. Definitely think we need to draft a RB this draft. I did hear Doug drinks like a fish on the regular.
December 18th, 2016 at 9:07 pm
Open thread is now up.
December 18th, 2016 at 9:08 pm
Come on Mike Smith and D!!!!!!!
December 18th, 2016 at 9:09 pm
Our d and o look like s@@T
December 18th, 2016 at 9:10 pm
Game over
December 18th, 2016 at 9:13 pm
They do not look that bad Nut. One bad play, let’s see if they can rebound
December 18th, 2016 at 9:24 pm
LVD having a bad game
December 18th, 2016 at 9:27 pm
Not competitive so far