“Coach Smith Is Building A Football Team, He’s Not Collecting Talent.”
December 23rd, 2015
Staff member has his back
A member of Lovie Smith’s staff stood tall and had the head coach’s back this week.
Joe’s referencing Buccaneers nickel back coach and longtime Lovie mentor and confidante Larry Marmie.
The 73-year-old who coached Lovie in college took to the Buccaneers Radio Network and had a strong message for fans during trying times.
“What people need to know is that Coach Smith is building a football team. He’s not collecting talent. And there’s a difference,” Marmie said. “Obviously, you have to have talent to win, but you also have to be a good team. And so I think that’s what the process is right now and what we’re going through. There are some growing pains, and I think people have seen that as well, but I think they’ve seen a lot of positives out of this football team, too.”
Joe thoroughly gets what Marmie is saying, but the key question is how long does “building a football team” in the modern NFL take?
Also, since Marmie had a message for fans. Joe will deliver a message for Marmie: Many fans are frustrated because Year 1 in this building process was wasted in too many areas. If there is quality team building in effect, then the Bucs will play physical, smart and consistent football during the final two games.
December 23rd, 2015 at 10:39 am
If there is quality team building in effect, then the Bucs will play physical, smart and consistent football during the final two games.
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We havent seen that in 30 games so far but you are expecting to see it in the these last 2 meaningless games? Even if we do see it, how does it matter now that the season is over?
December 23rd, 2015 at 10:43 am
Will our Loser Bucs lead the league in penalties when the season closes out
Will Loser Lovie win one of his next two games, or is it okay to close the season on a four game losing streak.
Lovie Smith needs to achieve winning results one of these next two weeks. If not, we are in for a long and fuked up 2016 season, aka another year no playoffs.
How does a defensive coach have such a sh!tty defense?
December 23rd, 2015 at 10:46 am
In truth year 1 of the rebuilding process was 2009 right?
Of course that doesn’t count Gruden’s attempts to rebuild.
If you count the last year that the Bucs were relevant then
we’ve been rebuilding since 2003.
Message to Glazers: Fans like honesty and straight-forwardness.
Fans hate spin-doctors. It’s an insult to fans intelligence to not be
completely forthright about the state of the team. That’s a big part
of the reason that fans like Koetter better than Lovie. It’s why a lot
of people like Trump better than ‘Lary. No one likes it when a salesman
tries to “blow sunshine up their ass”. If you think fans are generally stupid
and don’t know the difference then f**k you. You’ll get what’s coming.
Be honest. Tell the truth. It will make you more money than spinning
and using dated sales techniques.
Truth: The Bucs have been rebuilding since 2003. They’re on their 3rd coach since Gruden.
December 23rd, 2015 at 10:59 am
It’s not so much that Lovie’s defense sucks a lot – 11th in yards overall, 19th in passing yards, 9th in rushing yards. 21st in scoring, 16th in sacks, and 25th in red zone scoring – that puts it pretty much in the middle of the pack.
The problem is expectations: Tampa fans have much higher expectations for defense because we have seen great defenses in the past. Furthermore, with Lovie being known as a defense-minded coach, we expect him to produce one that is nearer the top.
December 23rd, 2015 at 10:59 am
lol well that kind of throws out the talent excuse then..
I’m fine with Lovie next year even if we get beat bad these last 2 games. For Lovie to be a the long term answer though; I personally would need to see a top 12-14 defense next year in both points allowed & yards allowed & 3rd down defense.
You’re a defensive guru and it will be your 3rd year. If you are not in the top 1/3 of the league in your area of expertise with 3 years to build it your way that’s simply not good enough in todays league.
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:02 am
8-22
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:04 am
“It’s not so much that Lovie’s defense sucks a lot – 11th in yards overall, 19th in passing yards, 9th in rushing yards. 21st in scoring, 16th in sacks, and 25th in red zone scoring – that puts it pretty much in the middle of the pack.”
Hey be careful man. Having a balanced objective perspective on this website will get you labeled things like “Lovie Loser” or “Lovie Sheep”…
Recently when I ran the #s and adjusted our points given up by using the league average for points off of offensive turnovers (we were bottom 4 in this category due to games like Carolina) we were around 14th in points per game given up. After last 2 weeks we are probably more like 16th.
I predicted 7-9 wins with 9 being optimistic. I predicted a mediocre average defense (which is an improvement over what we’ve typically seen – which is a bottom of the league across many categories defense).
The Buc Realist predicted 4 wins tops and a bottom of the league defense.
Being accurate = sheep these days
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:17 am
Idontwannahearitanymore Says:
December 23rd, 2015 at 10:59 am
The problem is expectations: Tampa fans have much higher expectations for defense because we have seen great defenses in the past. Furthermore, with Lovie being known as a defense-minded coach, we expect him to produce one that is nearer the top
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Derek Anderson twice, Austin Davis, Brian Hoyer, Ryan Mallett, Kirk Cousins, Matt Hasselbeck, Case Keenum.
I don’t think anyone expected an amazing defense right away, I think most people would have thought we could easily beat that slate of QBs. Or at least go 4-4. Instead, the record against them is 0-8. Lovie has been embarrassed by backups in 1/4 of his games as coach. For an alleged defensive guru to not beat any of those QBs is a disgrace.
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:19 am
Realist’s only argument against his horribly inaccurate season prediction is “historically weak schedule der der”. He’d probably say something like “If I knew this was the schedule we should have went undefeated with any sort of average coach!”
Well we all knew the schedule before it started and before you made your horrible prediction.
And also – we’re not the only ones playing the teams we play. Everyone in the NFL for the most part benefits when a lot of teams are lousy. There are only a few teams in a couple divisions that had much harder schedules; but most other teams benefit from a large pool of mediocrity – not just us.
It’s not like all our wins came against backup QBs. 4 of them came against Matt Ryan (2x) / Drew Brees / Blake Bortles
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:20 am
Not sure where i see the talent? michael johnson, chris conte, tim jennings, major wright, the kicker, jenkins, larry english, bruce carter, im sure dotson is out the door nexr year hope #22 doesnt walk too, the nfl rushing champ just slides out for lovie pick sims, i could see that
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:34 am
“How long does ‘building a winning football team” in the modern NFL take? –The Joes.
Would love to hear realistic answers to this question. Clearly, the Fins, Oilers, Jags, Browns and others show that the process takes several years of consistent quality work. Short cuts lead to flame outs.
Of course, we could look to the Chiefs under Reid. But he inherited a teams after a down year. The Bucs have had a down decade, including the decay and talent rot during the reign of the sainted Chuckie.
For my part, I say we are one year behind the a Raiders. 2017 should be fine. Sucks, doesn’t it.
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:36 am
“Derek Anderson twice, Austin Davis, Brian Hoyer, Ryan Mallett, Kirk Cousins, Matt Hasselbeck, Case Keenum.
I don’t think anyone expected an amazing defense right away, I think most people would have thought we could easily beat that slate of QBs. Or at least go 4-4. Instead, the record against them is 0-8. Lovie has been embarrassed by backups in 1/4 of his games as coach. For an alleged defensive guru to not beat any of those QBs is a disgrace.”
I agree with thinking we should have won more of those games but let’s have a little perspective. Please don’t label me a sheep lol.
2014 Carolina Panthers were much better team in all areas pretty much than the 2014 Bucs. I don’t think anyone would argue McCown is some huge upgrade over Anderson lol he was terrible that year. We gave up 20 and 19 points in those 2 games. Not exactly getting lit up.
We gave up 19 to Austin Davis. Once again not getting lit up at all.
We gave up 19 to Ryan Mallet. Not lit up.
The biggest embaressents imo were Case Keenum & Marcus Marota & blowout loss against Atlanta last year. Those were games where the D was absolutely worthless.
Brian Hoyer is not a bad QB and has put up some good numbers this year.
Cousins has been phenomenal at home this year if you check his #s.
Hassleback has been a lot better than Andrew Luck this year as well and been a huge surprise.
We should have won more of those games but it’s not as bad as you make it sound. We gave up an average of like 19 points against QBs that are truly backup only material. That’s right in line with a top 5-10 type average for points given up.
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:41 am
“Would love to hear realistic answers to this question. Clearly, the Fins, Oilers, Jags, Browns and others show that the process takes several years of consistent quality work. Short cuts lead to flame outs.”
It can be done in 3 years. Seahawks built that roster in about that time and were a fringe playoff team in their 3rd year. They made the playoffs his first year but at 7-9 in a weird year. Went 7-9 2nd year.
Basically gotta nail the hell out of 3 drafts. If we can do that in this 3rd draft with defensive players the foundation will be there. Seahawks spent more picks on defense in 3 years though than us
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:51 am
I’m sorry Lord Cornelius, but that is what a sheep would say. You can make all the excuses and defenses you want, if Schiano lost to that slate he would be destroyed by most. Same with Raheem. But let’s break it down some more shall we?
Carolina was dominating that first game last year until they took their foot off the gas. Anderson also had over 66% completion. A career backup cannot do that.
Austin Davis….AUSTIN DAVIS!!! You cannot lose to him under any circumstance. Losing to a turd on the ground is more acceptable. And again, outstanding completion numbers and third down conversion rate.
Letting up 19 points to Mallet, on a scale, is giving up 60 to Carolina. Wonderful, we let on of the worst QBs in the league look like a competent starter. Hooray!
Hasselbeck is 40. Again, unforgiveable loss. Look at his numbers against everyone else besides the Bucs (hint: not that good)
Hoyer lost his job to Mallet lol….come on now
I’ve been following many sports for years, and I’ve never seen the kind of defending on a .250 winning percentage coach as I’ve seen for Lovie. It’s remarkable. People seriously must be deeply convinced this is the guy to lead us to consistent greatness. Nevermind all the evidence that says he won’t. Mind boggling.
He’s the only coach hired last year to not get fired or make the playoffs by now. He is who we think he is: At his peak, hopelessly mediocre. We’re going nowhere with Lovie as our coach. Sad people want to continue down the path of nothing.
December 23rd, 2015 at 12:27 pm
@CORNELIUS….I agree with all your post…your example of seahawks was spot on…ive been saying that for months now…pete carroll got rid of players that didn’t buy in and started to draft well…it took them 3years to become who they are now…GO BUCS!!!
December 23rd, 2015 at 12:44 pm
Sorry but Lovie Smith is no Pete Carroll, Carroll is much more competitive and gets much more out of his players. Lovie’s defense has been worse than Shiano’s
December 23rd, 2015 at 1:09 pm
Lord Cornelius….baa baa baa. lol
December 23rd, 2015 at 1:11 pm
Carroll also spent more than 10 years out of the NFL before coming back. Clearly he learned a whole hell of a lot. Lovie spent a couple months in the basement and realized I guess that offense is important. So he learned what he should have in 2008. Nothing frightening about that, having a coach 6-7 years behind the times.
December 23rd, 2015 at 1:22 pm
You guys are the worst lol.
I make fact based contextual comments and all you hear is “Lovie Smith is God”
I’m not saying anything f*cking close to that. In this same thread I said I’m done with Lovie if we don’t have a top 1/3 defense next year. Jesus man
Nothing I wrote is an excuse as much as its simple context and additional information. We should have won more of those games. We should do better against QBs like that. But holy hell you guys act like they were the worst defensive performances of all time when we held teams to 20 or less points.
December 23rd, 2015 at 1:39 pm
@ed…I never said lovie was pete carroll…I simply used the seahawks organization and the ousting of players that didn’t fit the system as an example…also pete carroll had 2 previous HC jobs with the pats and jets…so I guess your right bucrightoff..pete did learn something after the second time he was fired from the nfl..he learned he has more learning to do…pete carroll was a HC in the nfl 10years before lovie was ever a HC and they have almost the same winning percentage…as always lovie is a lot better than you give him credit for…GO BUCS!!!!
December 23rd, 2015 at 1:51 pm
Ok, would you like some more context?
Derek Anderson: 4 pass attempts the previous 1,000 days before playing the Bucs
Austin Davis: First NFL start
Ryan Mallet: I mean what more is there to say? This guy sucks donkey dick. A third stringer at best. And he carved up that defense relative to his standards.
Hoyer: Sorry but he’s a poor starter and a true backup. 300 yard day with maybe the worst group of receivers in the league. Taylor Gabriel made the secondary look pathetic…whoever the hell Taylor Swift or Peter Gabriel is.
Cousins: On his way to the bench before that second half. Seriously look at his numbers this season before that half: 6TDs, 10 total turnovers. Without that comeback, Colt McCoy starts next week. Our defense saved their season lol.
Hasselbeck: So bad. He literally said he just watched Lovie’s defenses from Chicago and studied those. Yeah, hearing that did not inspire much confidence.
How’s that for context? Or shall that all just be dismissed because I’m “biased” against Lovie?
All that needs to be said is “Those were completely unacceptable performances, and they 100% fall on the coach”. Instead we get “Well, come on it wasn’t that bad”. That’s where we’re at as Bucs fans, trying to act like losing to backups is somehow no biggie. Could have been worse. Lovie sucks no doubt but it’s the Glazer morons who are really destroying this team. They really gotta go.
December 23rd, 2015 at 2:01 pm
@Cornelius…screw em…I’ve mentioned numerous times that I have not been satisfied with lovie overall but I have seen the progress he has made since being here and have realized that this team is young, inexperience, immature and lack nfl talent in a lot of positions…I was a season ticket holder and I didn’t renew after last year because I was just so disappointed in lovie and the team…just because you and I don’t flat out say fire lovie, some seem to think we look at lovie as the next great thing…I root for my teams thru thick and thin…all people like me and you do is distribute the blame thru out the entire organization…I mean the last time I checked football was a team game…you cant put the entire blame of just one individual….but it is what it is…I take comfort in knowing that we have some REAL BUCS FANS on this site that have a positive outlook on the future and just flat out root for the bucs period…GO BUCS!!!!
December 23rd, 2015 at 2:20 pm
@bucrightoff…that just goes to show you don’t know football…last year is over so stop bring up Anderson, Hoyer and Austin davis…we held 2 qbs under 21 points and hoyer scored 22…last year we had no OC and no qb and no oline…we lost to mallet because our kicker missed 3 FG’s..how was that lovies fault…cousins and hasselbeck both played better than the #1 and #2 draft picks in 2012 and have their team headed or in the race for the playoffs….why do you keep bringing up the past…this is 2015…we have PROGRESSED to 6 wins since last year in case you haven’t noticed…GO BUCS!!!
December 23rd, 2015 at 2:24 pm
8-22. Fantastic!
December 23rd, 2015 at 3:04 pm
Bucrightoff – see I like this type of conversation. We can disagree and still be civil and debate our points. In regards to yours:
Derek Anderson – those numbers literally mean nothing to me other than he hadn’t started in a while. It’s not that out of the norm for a QB to come in and surprise a defense . A couple random performances are already coming to mind like Matt Flynn throwing 6 TDs in his first start for Aaron Rodgers.
Also in general – Backup caliber NFL QBs putting up 19 or 20 points isn’t really that much of an indictment against a defense. This year that equates to a bottom 5 offensive output based on the average points most teams score (22-24). And I’m sorry but no one is taking their foot off the gas and feeling content with a small lead and 20 points or less on the scoreboard.
Ryan Mallet – Yeah he’s not someone I’d ever want on my roster but did you watch the Houston game? There were only a few blown coverages. Most of the 3rd down conversions he had were tight throws in traffic. I’d go re-watch film on that one because Mallet played a solid game. It was nothing like the gifted statistics we gave to Marcus Mariota. That was a true shredding of sh1t coverage & wide open holes in the zone. The D forced a lot of punts in Houston but our offense stunk for the most part and couldn’t hit field goals.
Cousins: Yeah his numbers were bad before that half. So were Winston’s after week 1. What is the point in time stamping something like that? For whatever reason; Cousins has been much better at home than away (like Brees this year if you examine their performances). In 8 home games he has completed 75% of his passes for 2170 yards, 16 TDs, and only 2 interceptions. That’s an average of 271 yards and 2 TDs per game at 75% completion rate. The collapse in DC was still unforgiveable especially when we KNEW they would be passing the ball; but Cousins isn’t just some scrub if you’ve been paying attention at all to the games this year.
Hassleback – Took a struggling Indy team and went 4-3. It wasn’t even a debate that he was outplaying Luck’s start to the year. Not an amazing QB but had a solid run before his recent collapse. And like the Houston game; I personally thought he made a lot of tight window throws and the receivers made tough contested catches on multiple 3rd down conversions. There was one blown coverage for a TD.
That’s my response to your context. And I never called you “bias” or anything. I respect that you have substance to your stances unlike many others who just throw out lazy opinions that change every week.
I think we just read each other’s positions as if they are polar extremes when they aren’t. I think it is completely unacceptable to go 0-8 against that squad. We should have probably won ½ of those. I just don’t think it’s reasonable to think we should have won all those games or even the majority of those games given the makeup of our roster.
I am not sold on Lovie but don’t have an alternative that I like. I believe he has the experience & ability to be a decent HC that gives us stability and hopefully consistent winning. If he doesn’t have the D playing well his 3rd year I’m done though. If the D played truly as bad as they were in prior years and finished bottom of the league this year in most categories I’d be done as well but that didn’t happen. They finished about middle of the pact when you factor in everything which is what I predicted. I thought they’d be a little better but not by that much.
December 23rd, 2015 at 3:15 pm
To add to the contextual conversation, football is a team game correct? The QBs we lost to played for what teams? Are the Colts, as a team, better than the Bucs? Panthers? Texans? Redskins?
Matt Cassel won 10 games for the Patriots. Was it because CASSEL was THAT good?!
Don’t get me wrong, it’s disappointing to lose games when you’re playing second-stringers but I also think that teams rally around those guys.
The defense needs help, of this we know! However, as a TEAM, the Bucs are trending upward (albeit slowly!). A few more good pieces and we’ll be talkin’ “Playoffs!”
December 23rd, 2015 at 3:52 pm
anyone that supports trump should get their head checked
December 24th, 2015 at 8:20 am
Anyone who doesn’t support trump should be held down so that 1000 muslims can shart in your mouth.
December 24th, 2015 at 6:34 pm
Based on what i’ve seen. He deserves 1 more season to see what he can do with what he’s built. This coming from a very critical on Lovie guy.
After that, he gots to go if these defensive debacles keep occurring.