Valuable Veteran Help
September 6th, 2015
Did the Bucs make the best choices for Jameis Winston?
Joe does not underestimate the value of coaching and the value of experience.
It’s one reason Joe scratched his head when the Bucs hired a first-time NFL quarterbacks coach for Jameis Winston, America’s Quarterback, and didn’t have a savvy veteran QB in training camp to help drive Jameis.
Ask yourself. How exactly did just-cut, third-stringer Seth Lobato add to Jameis’ development.
Perhaps Dirk Koetter is enough, and often Koetter is praised for turning David Garrard into a wining QB when Koetter took over the Jacksonville offense. But keep in mind Garrard had Mike Shula as a position coach. Shula was the guy who years earlier was the QB coach alongside Jay Fiedler in Miami, when Fiedler emerged from nowhere to stun the NFL by winning 28 of 41 starts in three years (2000-2002).
The Bucs face the Titans and Marcus Mariota in seven days, and it seems Mariota taped a SportsCenter chat that airs tonight. Mariota, who typically says nothing interesting, shared that his offseason training in California helped him immensely with footwork under center and throwing left and right out of a dropback. His teacher was Phillip Rivers.
Also in that training group was some dude named Jameis.
Joe sincerely hopes the Bucs made the best possible choices preparing Jameis. They owed that to him and fans. Jason Licht raved about QB coach Mike Bajakian on the Buccaneers Radio Network recently. He called him a major up-and-comer it the coaching ranks, a guy who was in demand.
Joe sure hopes so.
One thing soothing Joe a little is that the Titans’ quarterbacks coach is Greg Schiano man John McNulty, Josh Freeman’s position coach in 2013. All that ’13 offseason, McNulty, who never played the position, insisted that coaching Freeman on mechanics was unimportant because Freeman wouldn’t have had his success to date if he couldn’t throw.
September 6th, 2015 at 9:14 am
I hope Jameis watched Freeman very intently….long and hard…and saw what MIGHT happen to him in 3-5 years if he does not perform.
September 6th, 2015 at 9:24 am
Hey Joe:
Hopefully, there is a site somewhere that you tap into in all your great breakdowns, that rates the available players by position. Those of us that would love to see some veteran help on the Offensive line and Defensive end
really have no clue as to who is tops on the list.
Please give us some insight.
September 6th, 2015 at 9:39 am
Difficult choices……with the large number of players available the Bucs have some difficult choices…..the players will probably fall into one of these categories.
Older Veterans ex great players…on the decline but still good
Younger UDFAs or late round draft picks……with potential & without
Players with some experience that haven’t performed that well….or have been injured and not regained previous form
My personal opinioion is that we should find a 1-year plug at DE with a proven pass rusher….probably an ex pro-bowler. The reason is that I believe we will address this position in next year’s draft…..and it is one of the few positons that a player can come in and make an immediate impact.
However on the Oline or @ Safety for example, I’d like to see us pick up a younger player with great potential
September 6th, 2015 at 10:18 am
We need to draft all lineman for the next two seasons. Maybe sprinkle in another position or two here and there but this team needs talent in the trenches.
I think everyone would have picked lovie to grab a D-lineman in one of his first two drafts. Surprise surprise only one defensive player overall.
He HAS to get some pass rush and better protection on this team.
September 6th, 2015 at 10:19 am
Mariota’s footwork looks light years ahead of the “pro-ready” Jameis. He’s a better athlete and should be the Buc’s quarterback.
September 6th, 2015 at 10:20 am
The Bucs just cut 3rd string QB Seth Labato. I guess that leaves stringbean Glennon as the only backup QB for now.
September 6th, 2015 at 11:10 am
Jameis is the future and really hope he pans out for the Bucs. Now buccfan37 cut the hate on Glennon dude, he may actually be a better choice to start this year than Jameis at the moment. Anyways the way our offensive line is playing, he most definitely will get his chance to start. They are gonna get the rookie killed eventually.
September 6th, 2015 at 11:27 am
@TBBF
Another EXCELLENT post. Your ideas are great and you back them up with logic.
Yes a plug and play DE is fine because next year we’re going to package MG8 with another pick or two and get Joey Bosa!
Ok the Bosa part was my fantasy. LOL
Our coaches are fine!!! Our players are fine. If #3 worked with Rivers in the off season that’s on top of the QB Guru (forgot his name you FSU guys can tell us) who worked extensively with #3 for the combine and his pro day.
#3 is “coached up”. ME went and practiced with Randy Moss…ME is ready.
They will all be motivated. IMHO the only factor left to the coaches…and certainly critical..will be the game planning by Kotter and Lovie and then the gameday playcalling on both offense and defense.
September 6th, 2015 at 11:28 am
“Pro ready”, “best since Andrew Luck”, “savior”…with those kind of JBF accolades you’d almost get the impression that the Bucs drafted this guy with the #1 pick, knowing full well they had some “holes” on OL and other positions that could have been addressed by trading back in the draft to acquire more picks, because they believe he is good enough and polished enough to overcome a lot of other challenges. The “real Andrew Luck” was able to carry a 2 win team on his back to a winning season as a rookie, I think anyone dubbed “America’s QB” should be able to do the same, no? McCown and Glennon were not afforded these excuses, so let’s please hold the #1 pick to a higher standard.
September 6th, 2015 at 11:41 am
“Pro ready”, “best since Andrew Luck”, “savior”…with those kind of JBF accolades”
@Toes…. those weren’t JBF accolades. It’s what was being said nationally. Joe didn’t say best QB since Luck that was some draft analyst. Just like “pro ready”, that wasn’t a JBF accolade in itself, it was also being said by scouts and draft “experts”before the draft
Nothing in preseason has changed my mind that Winston will be an elite QB in this league. Not even catching 35 sacks this season will break his confidence. I’m not worried at all about Jameis Winston’s future in the NFL. I see there are STILL some fans in here whining about not drafting Mariota. You’re not one of them, but they are here still. I want them to keep coming on here as much as possible and don’t ever leave.
September 6th, 2015 at 11:45 am
Toes….Joe calls him “America’s QB”, not for anything great that he has done on the field, but for the media attention he brings and the rest of America either wanting him to succeed or fail. It’s the attention he brings.
@Joe..Yet some people still don’t get the label Joe. They think he has to show greatness in the NFL first, which has absolutely no bearing on the label.
September 6th, 2015 at 11:50 am
Ok but these fans with wishful thinking and living with n the past need to wake up fast!!! Who you going for on Sept 13th?? Bucs or Titans?
September 6th, 2015 at 12:01 pm
@Buc1987:
Clearly JW3 has many athletic talents, and a good arm etc., but as far as being so “pro-ready”, I’m not so sure. Three simple examples from pre-season to illustrate:
1) He stated that “in the NFL, he was taught to always fall forward to get the most yards”, which may be OK in college (where you’re down when you hit the ground) vs. the NFL where you are considered a ball carrier, unless you slide feet first.
2) When chased from the pocket on one play, he took a needless sack, rather than simply throw the ball away….. a simple rookie mistake.
3) Against Cleveland, he had one play where he held the ball for almost seven seconds before taking a sack.
Lastly, I think he may have “chronic ankle instability” from bad footwork, and his years as a baseball pitcher. We shall definitely see, won’t we?
tickrdr
September 6th, 2015 at 12:11 pm
@Danati74…they’re rooting for the Bucs to win and Mariota to do better than Winston.
@tickrdr…not to use him as an example, but Freeman dove head first many times into the end zone or did you forget? Russell Wilson does it all the time. Hell I even saw the great Tom Brady do it more than once in his career. I don’t get where all the criticism is coming from about him diving head first into the end zone, when PLENTY of NFL QB’s have done it over the years. Many have also dive4d head first fro 1st downs. No one criticizes them for that, becasaue they are not named Jameis Winston.
September 6th, 2015 at 12:14 pm
Wonder what offer the Bucs could make the Seahawks for Kam Chancellor that would actually convince them to trade him?
With Kam at Safety, we could do some damage.
There are some run stuffing DE’s out there on in FA that we could pick up for a 1 year contract. Just wish there were some pass rushing DE’s out there…lol
September 6th, 2015 at 12:33 pm
@tickdr
All great points! I do not know about Fameis ankles but you are the physician not me so I’ll not argue that point.
As to the rest while I disagree IMHO we are talking learning curve and a very delicate balance here. Clearly Fameis is not where MG8 is when it comes to knowing when a play is done and simply cutting losses with a throw away OB.
I think he’ll pick that up but next week the clock starts ticking for real. I hope he’s a quick learner.
Diving head first is a tough call..your point is valid but I would posit there is a time and place for everything while conceding the PS was not the place to do that.
But I honestly have difficulty faulting a rookie like #3 for being a little slow on the uptake when I watch an experience veteran like Josh McCown diving head first for a first down in a freaking PS game when the Brownies other QB is out with a bum arm. Even Pettine looked at Josh and pointed to his head like use your noodle dummy.
Fameis is going to make many mistakes this year. I’m prepared. But that throw he made on 3rd and long to Tim Wright through such a tight window was such a thing of beauty that I can’t wait for the season to start. I do not remember seeing a Buc QB who could make that throw.
September 6th, 2015 at 12:34 pm
Oops edit..as to the rest of the observations..I AGREE.
September 6th, 2015 at 12:39 pm
I’ll say it again.
MANY GOOD NFL QB’S DIVE HEAD FIRST INTO THE END ZONE.
All the time.
September 6th, 2015 at 12:45 pm
Randall Cunningham dove head first all the time.
Randall : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUZ6HAidTzo
September 6th, 2015 at 12:47 pm
No objection to diving for a first down, let alone for a TD.
I am commenting on his apparent lack of knowledge or coaching regarding not knowing to slide feet first when scrambling, or else he going to take a lick; which he has done at other times, and not just diving for the endzone.
The others are simple rookie mistakes, which every rookie makes in the heat of battle, but again are arguments against his being any more “NFL ready” than any other rookie QB.
tickrdr
September 6th, 2015 at 12:54 pm
tickrdr …actually I’m surprised you forgot how many times Glennon threw the ball away in his “rookie” season. He did it quite a lot when there was no play. So he knew to do it, when he was a rookie. Not too many gunslingers like to throw the ball away though, well see if they can teach that out of JW. I really don’t know if they can. Glennon is no gunslinger though, and protects the hell out of the ball. Hence is great stats that you always post. Sometimes great stats won’t win you the game and sometimes ugly stats will win you the game. Wins and losses is all I care about. Glennon is going to keep throwing check downs, balls out of bounds and not take chances. That’s what he does.
September 6th, 2015 at 3:02 pm
87
All good man…I know the history on the “America’s QB” moniker…I’m in the group that thinks it’s still silly since there are other NFL QB’s that get far more press now that Jameis is out of the “bad headlines”. Truthfully I’m pleasantly surprised that Jameis has kept a low profile and is focusing on being the best QB he can be for the Bucs…my main concern with him was his questionable maturity which so far looks like a non-issue. I’m rooting for the guy to become elite while still in a Bucs uniform (no more Steve Young’s or Doug William’s scenarios please!), but I won’t lie I like Glennon and hate to see him get criticized for crap only to see excuses about OL and inexperienced coaching given to Winston. Hold the #1 pick to the same or higher standards than a 3rd round pick is all I’m ranting about…back to chillin’ lake side now.
September 6th, 2015 at 3:14 pm
Buc1987 actually in the 4th preseason game glennon was throwing beyond the first down marker consistently. On target too. Hall dropped the first 4 out of 5 passes in his direction. Humphries made his catches tho. I think Glennon’s two picks were both going to hall.
September 6th, 2015 at 4:45 pm
Hall had 4 catches for 63 yards. Humphreys had 4 catches for 62 yds and a td. Not sue how many attempts for either.
We all know what glennon can do. When given time, he can make throws accurately and with anticipation. But when under duress, as all or QBs will be this year, he is not so good. He’ll complete 50-60% of his passes, for mostly low yardage. And if he has to run left, well, we’ve all seen what happens there.
Let’s not forget glennon has taken many needless sacks when he could have thrown it away too. I think he deserves a shot somewhere, but we have a #1 pick who is ready to play and learn. Unless we really think our oline is gonna get him killed, he should start.
September 6th, 2015 at 8:01 pm
vegabuc… stringbean is a term of endearment, don’t you know? I was called that and worse growing up. I lu lu like Mg, have since he came here.