ESPN: Lovie On Hot Seat
July 18th, 2015
Lovie’s desk chair?
The losing and the losing and the losing around these parts has become so commonplace, Bucs fans are mentally beaten down.
Where once this proud franchise had fans trying to figure out playoff opponents well into the holiday season, in recent years, fans’ focus has turned to the following spring’s draft — before Halloween!
So Joe can understand in the second year of the Lovie Smith Administration where fans, flat out fed up, want playoffs or a new coach. It seems these same fans may have a voice in Pat Yasinskas.
The ESPN Bucs beat guy, in a roundtable discussion of NFC South writers, were each asked to give a name of a man on a hot seat. Yasinskas offered Lovie.
He’s heading into only his second season as Tampa Bay’s head coach, but Smith can’t afford another season like his first. The Bucs went 2-14 and were dreadful on offense. Fans expected much more out of Smith, who was a proven winner in Chicago. Ownership believes continuity is needed after going through Jon Gruden, Raheem Morris and Greg Schiano since 2008. But patience is thin for a franchise that hasn’t won a playoff game since winning the Super Bowl more than a decade ago. Smith doesn’t need to make the playoffs to keep his job, but he does need to show significant improvement.
Joe will agree the Bucs need to show improvement. Another 2-14 season could banish Lovie to another suburban basement. But Joe doesn’t think Lovie is on the hot seat. Really.
As Yasinskas pointed out, Lovie was brought in to give the franchise stability after the schizophrenia of Raheem Morris and the mental implosions, both real and imagined, under former Bucs commander Greg Schiano. Tossing Lovie overboard after two seasons blows up that goal.
When Lovie came aboard he boasted how he was in charge. Thus, he has a whole lotta ‘splainin’ to do because virtually every move he made last year backfired, terribly so. Yes, Joe has a top-20 countdown on the worst personnel moves in the past 10 years. Shoot, Joe could just about put together 20 from last year alone!
Team Glazer always looks at where the arrow is pointing after each season. With a proven, effective offensive coordinator and a franchise quarterback in “America’s Quarterback,” Bucs signal-caller Jameis Winston, the seeds are planted for progress.
Though fans gag at the thought, six wins is progress. That’s triple the amount from last year.
Look, no reasoned person expects a rookie quarterback with two rookie offensive linemen to lead the team to the playoffs. That’s just irrational. Thus, Joe cannot say Lovie is on the hot seat.
Now if Lovie pulls a stunt where he believes the quarterback of the past and quarterback of the future and maybe the quarterback of the present, Mike Glennon, is the way to go, then Joe believes the clock begins ticking on Lovie’s days with the Bucs.
That would try the will of even the most patient member of Team Glazer.
July 18th, 2015 at 8:12 am
The WINSton tornado has a way of cooling off things.
July 18th, 2015 at 8:24 am
Joe, you forgot to mention the back ups that will be starting at the DE and safety positions. Guys like St Pete can leave their blinders on on believe the Bucs can go 10-6 next year but it ain’t gonna happen. They will be lucky to win 6 as they are basically in year one of yet another rebuild. This year we need to hope for guys to develop and show some promise. Next year we can draft a stud DE and maybe in 2017 we can start looking at the playoffs again.
July 18th, 2015 at 8:30 am
It would surprise me if Lovie started Glennon at QB. Rest easy, why would he do that? I’d guess the odds are very high against MG starting regardless of past coachspeak. Remember, in Lovie’s other life he steered the Titanic.
July 18th, 2015 at 8:35 am
If the team implodes like last season best believe his a$$ will be gone. But as I said before, I think Lovie will right the ship. It may take three seasons but I really do think he will lead this franchise back to being a contender.
July 18th, 2015 at 8:53 am
Quit trying to act like you know where he is with the Glazer family. This is getting old. He is on a clock and always will be. The only thing you are showing is your scared they may start Glennon. Even if he does and they win 6 games that does not mean they fire him. That is triple the wins and they may have put 30 points up and the defense blew it again. It’s the total team not just the QB he is in charge of.
July 18th, 2015 at 9:02 am
Agree with Ray Rice.
Though fans gag at the thought, six wins is progress. That’s triple the amount from last year.
Last year’s record is IRRELEVANT!!! That team truly sucked in EVERY department. Questionable talent at some positions. Horrible coaching at virtually every position. Marcus Arroyo was a joke. I’m not sure how Warhop still has a job other than the fact Lovie realized he gave Warhop nothing to work with. And to use an old Sam Wyche comedy device…hey we may have had bad talent but at least we had some really bad attitudes. There were several older players who basically phoned it in.
And so you have a team with marginal talent, pathetic attitude from some players that spoiled the entire effort all combined with bad coaching.
Last year’s team could have EASILY won six games already if they hadn’t found boneheaded ways to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Six wins playing in the NFC South will be pathetic IMHO. I’ll take to rookie OL drafted high over two veterans who are simply trotting out onto the field collecting multimillion $$ paychecks.
This team is WAAAAY better coached. Koetter is not Arroyo. This team has better talent. This team has far far better attitude. Young hungry and humble guys and our vets like GMC and LVD are also class acts. We’ve gotten rid of the Taibs, Winslows, and Williams. Do we have a single head case on this team? I can’t think of any but perhaps a poster can enlighten me.
July 18th, 2015 at 9:07 am
The only thing that can get Lovie fired is a team mutiny. IMO, the Glazers know that the key to success is stability. I think Lovie losing the team is the only way, other than 0-1 wins, that he is fired. If he has a bad 2016, then he is gone.
July 18th, 2015 at 9:14 am
BTW Which position on the team is most important? Obviously QB.
We could all see that the Bucs choked away at least four wins last year to reach Joe’s magical six win mark. It’s already in the bag if they had just played up to their potential.
Now does anybody here really want to compare a ROOKIE Fameis Jameis to Josh McCown? Really? Listen I was a Mariota supporter but now I’m on the Fameis bandwagon. Josh McCown played worse than any decent rookie QB I’ve ever seen. McCown was beyond rookie bad he was a CHOKING dog turnover machine. Great guy horrible QB!
Joe…87 and many other posters kept pointing out that Fameis is far more ready than Mariota having played in a pro style offense. That was “supposed” to be a big advantage. Now the Fameis supporters are hedging their bets and I’m seeing what they originally saw.
I’m not going to revisit any off field crap because it’s history and won’t effect anything on the field.
In every other area Fameis has been living up to the hype that Joe and the guys put out. I’m now a believer.
The Colts went 11-5 in Luck’s ROOKIE year. Is Fameis as good as Luck? Certainly can’t say that yet but he has the “potential”. Does Fameis need to be as good as Luck for the Bucs to win 10 in the league’s worst division? NO!
July 18th, 2015 at 9:17 am
Sure makes for an interesting preseason, how important is a good start for this team?
What would sentiment be if this team won 4 or 5 games.
Wonder if the Glazers have an “over-under” in their minds? Is that number 6?
You can’t predict the effect of injuries, just three key injuries could sure doom this team.
Asking a team to have everyone stay healthy for 16 games is a fantasy.
July 18th, 2015 at 9:25 am
You can’t predict the effect of injuries, just three key injuries could sure doom this team.
Yes Tom agree completely and this is where I hedge my bets. Injuries could prevent a ten win season. But injuries could prevent the Seahawks and Pats from reaching the playoffs. Injuries are the one wild card that every team deals with.
I do feel we are improving our depth but we obviously have a way to go.
July 18th, 2015 at 9:36 am
StPete, I love your optimism, seriously, but I hope you are not operating heavy machinery or driving a vehicle in Orlando, lol.
July 18th, 2015 at 9:38 am
The only way Lovie is fired after this season is a miserable record…..2 or 3 wins….and losing the morale of the team….and I don’t see that happening with Lovie’s style of management.
Lovie is here for at least two more years…..probably longer….so sit back, relax and accept it…..the Glazers will.
July 18th, 2015 at 9:47 am
Wow, The Lovie Sheep are loose and running wild!!!
July 18th, 2015 at 9:48 am
Anything less than 6 or 7 wins fire him. I hate the built in excuses fans and media give for Lovie. Good coaches don’t go 2-14, no matter the circumstances. Especially when you have FIRST year coaches winning triple that amount who have never been a head coach in this league before.
This isn’t Lovies first rodeo 2-14 is unacceptable!!!
July 18th, 2015 at 9:50 am
Lovie will need at least a 6-10 season in order to keep his job…
July 18th, 2015 at 9:50 am
@Harry
LMAO No I retired last month. But since I am 67 perhaps I’m getting senile.
I can cop to that.
In another life I did drive a semi for about three years. I was younger and still has my mental faculties. 🙂
July 18th, 2015 at 10:06 am
” He’s heating up” “He’s on fire” — NBA Jam
July 18th, 2015 at 10:40 am
Sorry Lovie haters but Smith will be here for at least two more years barring anything less than a 5 win season.
The only two true mistakes Lovie made last year in personnel were bringing Michael Johnson and Anthony Collins in positions we were desperate for upgrades in.
The other three FA starters were either averageor good players.
And don’t start on Evan Smith. A cpl. Of bad center snaps doesn’t make you an Ian Buckles. Besides, everyone on offense looked bad last year under the high school coach and buddy of Jeff Tedfords named Mark Arroyo.
I really think Joe fears Glennon will get the starting nod over Winston and get a good record going out under a seasoned experienced Kotter as the OC.
Then Joe will have to pine for Winston as he stands on the sidelines.
As for me, I have no dog in the fight.whoever looks the best should start.
It will be our defense that determines who wins the first game.
I stated about 8 months ago that it was our terrible drafts over the last ten years that had put us in this mess and finally people started to look and see where those players were and realized the same thing.
Neither Bruce Allen or the so called Rock Star and their head coaches could draft worth a damn.
Can’t blame Lovie for that.
July 18th, 2015 at 10:48 am
Finally someone brings up Bruce Allen. He and Chucky were godawful with the draft. Worst than Matt Millen. Seriously, compare the drafts.
July 18th, 2015 at 11:03 am
Tampa Tony, Jimmy Johnson went 1-15 with a rookie QB. I think he was pretty good.
July 18th, 2015 at 11:06 am
Lets sensationalize Mark Dominik Personnel moves though. Hey was’t Dominik part of Gru’s personnel Dept?
July 18th, 2015 at 11:07 am
With all of this fire Lovie talk, how about we get some helpful posts. Maybe ones where posters tell us who they would replace Lovie with.
July 18th, 2015 at 11:39 am
@Buccaneeic75- Jimmy Johnson was in his first year as a Pro Coach, Lovie was in his what 9th or 10th. Comparing a record of a coach who is billed as a proven winner with years and years of pro coaching experience to a first year coach is a huge reach.
I’ll stand by my initial statement. While you reach for another excuse.
When Raheem was fired I was screaming for the Glazers to interview Bruce Arians. When Schiano was fired I was hoping to get Mike Zimmer, both of those coaches are much better than Lovie.
Glazers desperately are trying to recapture the magic of the Dungy days and have made yet another bad hire
July 18th, 2015 at 11:48 am
Plus Gruden/Allen never had 3 consecutive losing seasons
Detroit had holes all over the roster. Yet Matt Millen decided to do the inexcusable.
Dude drafted not (1)…….. but (3) freakin ‘ wideouts in consecutive drafts.
ALL IN THE TOP 10 Picks
• 2003 || 1/2 DET Charles Rogers
• 2004 || 1/7 DET Roy Williams
• 2005 || 1 /10 DET Mike Williams
smh
July 18th, 2015 at 11:55 am
Joe refers to tripling the win total of last year equating to 6 wins this season and that being acceptable progress. I personally see it a little different. Since they obviously tried to guarantee getting Jameis during that last game against the Saints, I really do not count that loss which probably would have been a win under any other circumstances. Therefore tripling that total would jump to 9 wins which falls in my previous prediction window of 7 to 9 wins this season. We play a last place schedule, have a defense in the second year of the system, a legitimate Offensive Coordinator and an upgrade at the QB position simply by virtue of it not being McClown. If they do not win 6 games at the very least, even with a rookie QB, then it is a total failure by the coaching staff. No one is demanding a playoff appearance this season even though it would be great but they have to get back to the playoffs by the season after that.
July 18th, 2015 at 11:59 am
to me there is a difference between Allen and the “rockstar” and that is overall draft postition.
If I remember correctly once Dominik took over his average draft position was #9th in the draft and Allan was #18th.
while both were terrible in the draft Dominik always drafted higher and had the power to make sure his picks were on the team. It is not a good thing that all your draft picks “started” but the team finished last in the division!!!!
July 18th, 2015 at 12:09 pm
Very tired of the “Lovie on the hot” seat storyline. We had no chance last year! So like any good head coach, he put us in a position to win this year by losing for Jameis ( which is our best decision since… Ever). How u gonna hate on this man for concocting another worst to first scenario in Tampa Bay. We win the division, Jameis hits the record books early and Lovie is up for coach of the year in 2015… Maybe?
July 18th, 2015 at 12:12 pm
Can we stop with thinking a last place schedule is an advantage? All 4 teams in the division play the same schedule except 2 teams.
Besides who is to say the 2 last place teams the Bucs play will be horrible this season?
July 18th, 2015 at 12:16 pm
What happens if Lovie tanked for Jameis and he’s a bust? Lovie would never be a HC again then.
Players don’t wanna play for a coach like that. Especially when the Bucs were still alive for the division into November
July 18th, 2015 at 12:20 pm
@ Tampa Tony
Since It appears that my comment was the only one that included the last place schedule, ALONG WITH OTHER FACTORS, I will assume that your post was meant for me in part. No, I will not drop including the last place schedule because yes, even if it is only 2 teams that are differing from the other division opponent schedules, it can make a slight difference. You are right though that there is no guarantee that a bad team from last season will be bad again this year unless they are named the Bucs, tight? (Sarcasm intended)!
July 18th, 2015 at 12:26 pm
6 wins is unacceptable.
July 18th, 2015 at 12:47 pm
if Lovie has a 5-11 record, He will be a career .500 coach and .500 playoff record!!!!!
July 18th, 2015 at 1:01 pm
Ray jay- not calling you out at all, just making a point the difference in schedules is not a huge disparity as it previously was
July 18th, 2015 at 1:13 pm
The same negative fans complain on every article. They will find a negative in every piece and be one of the 1st to post, just to get a reaction. I love it.
July 18th, 2015 at 1:24 pm
@ drdneast:
Nice post, except you left out McCown being gifted the starting position as a free agent pickup.
———————————————————————————-
A lot of interesting points being made otherwise by all. In my opinion, the coals under Lovie’s seat get lit the moment he starts Jameis Winston. Then he likely has two full years to show that Winston and the rest of the team are greatly improved. But it could be less than that under the following scenarios:
ONLY FOUR WINS OR LESS:
Granted Lovie will be playing a rookie QB, but one who he felt was good enough to be picked #1 overall. Even Schiano got 4 wins in his second year playing a rookie QB ( a lowly 3rd round pick no less), and his defense played better than Lovie’s overall; against the toughest schedule in the league in 2013.
FIVE OR SIX WINS:
Probably on the bubble, depending on how well coached the team looks. If numerous undisciplined penalties, and other stupid mistakes with 12 men on the field, poor clock management, etc. ……….. who knows?
WINSTON STRUGGLES AND BUCS ARE LOSING:
Something like 10 TDs and 18 INTs or worse, and the Bucs start off 1-5 or 2-6.
Especially if they lose to Mariota and Tennessee at the home opener.
WINSTON IS AN OUT AND OUT BUST:
I know that could NEVER happen, and has never happened in the history of the NFL. PS: I watched the FSU vs. Louisville game last night.
tickrdr
July 18th, 2015 at 1:24 pm
Tampa Tony…I wanted Martyball over Schiano. Even though Schotty is as old as dust.
July 18th, 2015 at 2:58 pm
Tampa Tony, don’t make excuses for Jimmy Johnson! It’s not his fault that was his first season!!! Just kidding! I get your point, and I do think Arians would have been the best hire. I’m not making excuses for Lovie. If it appears that way, that was not my intention. I’m just tired of the revolving coaching door. 87, I could have gotten on board with Martyball too. All I’m saying is that I think we should judge Lovie from this season forward. If we move in the right direction, then he stays. If not, then bye bye. If it all ends in a Super Bowl win down the line then it was worth it.
July 18th, 2015 at 3:02 pm
Tampa Tony, the last place schedule thing IS overrated. Only 2 games are decided by the previous years record.
July 18th, 2015 at 3:31 pm
Lovie won a lot of games with the Chicago Bears, but to be honest this team don’t have 1/3 of the talent that the Bears had, especially on defense. He had better offensive players also, especially with Matt Forte. He had better special teams players, especially Devin Hester. On the D-Line he had the likes of Julius Peppers, Tank Johnson, Henry Melton, Tommy Harris, Alex Brown,Mark Anderson,Adewale Oguneye, Israel Idonije. Linebackers like Brian Urlacher, Lance Briggs. Safeties like Danieal Mannings, Chris Harris. Cornerbacks like Charles Tillman,Tim Jennings. With the players that we have it’s almost impossible for Lovie to have the success that he had in Chicago. It seems like they were stronger at evey position than us, even at WR, with the likes of Brandon Marshall, Ashon Jeffrey, Johnny Knox, Earl Bennett even Jay Cutler is better than our QB’S. They had RB’S like Matt Forte, Chester Taylor, Thomas Jones, Marion Barber, Cedric Benson. Their O-Line were better, TE’S were much better than our. My point is people have to quit judging Lovie by his past success, it will take time for us to get where the Bears was between 2005-2013
July 18th, 2015 at 3:37 pm
True.
July 18th, 2015 at 3:38 pm
I meant from 2005- 2012
July 18th, 2015 at 3:42 pm
It takes time and patience to build a winner. Firing every coach after 2 or 3 seasons is not having patience.
July 18th, 2015 at 4:08 pm
The average career for an NFL coach is 4.2 years. With the recent turnover of coach’s at one buc place, implementation of a new defense, new OC and a franchise QB, you can bet the house Lovie Smith is good until 2017. If this team can not win more than 2 games this year and show some improvement in penalties and giveaway/takaway ratio, then Lovie may be on the hot seat. Even then, I doubt anything will happen until 2017. The obvious HC replacement? Dirk Koetter. The Buccaneers are going to win their division this year. 11-5. Go Bucs!
July 18th, 2015 at 5:27 pm
He’s not on the hot seat at all.
July 18th, 2015 at 7:36 pm
I miss Josh Freeman and Mike Williams long ball TDs
July 19th, 2015 at 6:42 am
Lovie need not worry, the Tampa Bay Bucs will get better this year, much better.
July 19th, 2015 at 6:54 am
You can’t win without an OC, period.
July 19th, 2015 at 10:49 am
Barring total, complete meltdowns, Lovie has at least two more years.