If The Suit Fits
May 8th, 2015
Jameis fires back
In what should surprise no one, Jameis Winston has filed a civil counter claim against the woman accusing him of sexual assault, offering precision detail on what he claims are a series of lies and fabrications.
Joe’s friend Patrick Nohe, via TomahawkNation.com, has all the details, including the full filing in Florida court today.
The legal text is worth reading, especially if you’re not up to speed on the case. You’ll feel bad for Jameis, for sure.
Joe can’t predict where this is all going. There’s no way Jameis is going to settle anything out of court, and with this new suit, he might get two days in court.
Regardless, the progression of the suit against Jameis will be a distraction. Joe certainly hopes it doesn’t see the spotlight — and the court docket — until February or March.
May 8th, 2015 at 11:56 pm
Called this. Way back when.
Some called me ridiculous , but I called it.
I knew this was going to happen. I don’t like the distraction, but it was going to happen.
May 8th, 2015 at 11:58 pm
Like I said… If we take jameis, at least we will be in the news
May 9th, 2015 at 12:07 am
People were all in an uproar over the shouting of that obscenity in the cafeteria. I said that proves to me that he didn’t rape that girl, Jameis is smarter than that. It was his way of saying HA look what I can do. He knows he didn’t rape this chick, that’s why it was so easy for him to still play at a high level and win a National Championship.
Sue away.
May 9th, 2015 at 12:26 am
He should go after ESPN next but I know that won’t happen.
May 9th, 2015 at 12:26 am
I think the kid plays better with a “chip” on his shoulder.
1. Rape allegation. M$NBC convicted him, awaiting word on execution date.
2. Crab legs getting blown out of proportion if he even looks at seafood.
3. On a Bucs team that never had a legit winning “Franchise” in its history.
4. Heisman curse. Only two QB’s that won the Heisman have won Super Bowls and the last was 30 freaking years ago.
5. He is a rookie being brought in as a team savior.
As much as I like the kid, he has some serious obstacles ahead.
Counter Suit – Happy to see that now that he is at least secured on a NFL team, take the fight to your opponent. Jameis haters and fans alike can at least admit on the basic premise it’s “He said / She said” and the odds of her winning are slim.
In two years she will be on the talking head circuit along with Anita Hill and others.
If this kid in time can take the Bucs back to glory with all this crap buzzing about, it will be a miracle.
May 9th, 2015 at 12:34 am
As long as Jameis dosent miss games as a result, I dont care.
May 9th, 2015 at 1:38 am
Hey whatever happened to that second accuser that the haters said was going to come forward before the draft?
The suit outlines the substantial holes in her story, with facts in the record that many of us have tried to bring up here, and which were ignored by BSPN and the NYT.
Amazingly biased and just plain piss poor “journalism”.
So proud of Lovie and the Bucs for ignoring it and reaching their own conclusions about Jameis with real facts.
Go Jaboo.
May 9th, 2015 at 1:53 am
Jameis is doing the right thing. She should be held accountable for her actions. ESPN and NYT are equally irresponsible and he should go after both they cost this fine young man millions of marketing revenue and legal fees. Go Jameis
May 9th, 2015 at 4:22 am
@Shaz
You should point out that the only one on MSNBC who ‘convicted’ him was the their highest paid guy who has a daily 3 hour long show in the mornings, the Republican Joe Scarborough. He’s not a looney tunes, were invading Texas guy as it was pointed out to me on here. He is a Reagan Republican. I’m not sure if this is bad today since everyone is now a independent or libertarian. Either way none of the liberal shows on the station have touched the Jameis story.
May 9th, 2015 at 5:02 am
Scarborough is not a “Reagan” Republican. He is MSNBC’s “token” Republican. Besides, what’s your point? Tamara Holder, the NYT and the Hunting Ground producers are all Democrats…..nice try, though
May 9th, 2015 at 7:25 am
I hope all you moralists that have said they no longer support this team with Jameis at the helm are watching. You know, the guys that continue to troll this site since Jameis was picked. This counter suit is a big deal! It should tell you something. He is not backing down and whether you like it or not, the facts of the case support his story.
If his story is true, think of all the sh$t he has put up with while continuing to play like a champ. The question was posed yesterday by one of the trolls how could any of us want jameis to be a roll model for our kids. I’d say you teach your kids to learn the whole story about someone before you start making judgements and casting people aside.
Got to be bad news though for all the haters.
May 9th, 2015 at 7:31 am
What foolish advice he is following…instead of paying his lawyers…he needs to settle this thing out of court and have the plantiff sign a confidelity agreement….read the story the “Tarbaby” Jameis
May 9th, 2015 at 7:34 am
JabooBuc…Yahoo has a story about Jameis’s first day….read the comments….it will give you a larger sample of just how Jameis is perceived….not just “Buc fans” speaking out that are shouted down as “haters”…”go find another team”
May 9th, 2015 at 7:47 am
Oh God! Please guys lets not try to make this political! Kudos to Winston for bringing the counter suit. Starting with the link Joe posted on twitter the other day about removing to federal court, I followed another link or two and ended up seeing the emails his lawyers shared with FSU about Kinsmans extortion attempt. Just days after appearing on tv crucifying Winston, Kinsmans lawer is offering to go away and never be heard from again if they agree to settle for 7 million dollars!!!!
May 9th, 2015 at 7:50 am
@JoeJoe – so if you didn’t rape a girl would you pay an accuser off? I hate to break it to you but there is a good chance his attorneys advised him to do just that! The fact that Jameis is not willing to do that should say a lot! The Bucs and his attorneys all want this to go away. The fact that Jameis isn’t bowing down to the pressure should tell you and Barry something.
Who the hell cares what uninformed people are saying in the comments section on Yahoo. They, like many if the haters in JBF don’t know any better and just read the headlines. This counter suit may bring more to light regarding the situation.
May 9th, 2015 at 7:56 am
Good for him. I believe that Winston is innocent. Her testimony is full of holes. There’s no reason to settle if he’s innocent no matter how much money he has.
No Jameis hater has responded to this question….
Ask any woman (I have asked a rape victim among the many I have asked ) if they would get on the back of a scooter with someone who just raped her to get a ride home?
Haven’t heard yes from a single one. In a town as small as Tallahassee. She could have walked or run home. Called a friend to pick her up. Called a cab. Or called the police. Instead she held on to the guy who supposedly raped her. Hogwash
May 9th, 2015 at 7:56 am
@JoeJoe – so JoeJoe if you were accused of rape but didn’t do it would you pay her off and essentially admit your guilt? Guess what, I am sure his attorneys did advise him to pay her off. You and Barry may need to rethink this!
Who cares what uninformed people are saying on Yahoo. Thus counter suit might bring more to light on this situation since they only read headlines.
May 9th, 2015 at 8:00 am
Joe might be the token Republican on that show, but he still works for main stream media and is just as lazy as all the other predictable drive bys. Him and that annoying yuppy Mika, or however you spell that idoit’s name, saw the hunting Ground because they have girls going to college and just flew the coop without looking any farther into the subject. It was obvious from the get go, that their entire research consisted of that movie and only that movie.
May 9th, 2015 at 8:01 am
Buc1987 Says:
May 9th, 2015 at 12:07 am
People were all in an uproar over the shouting of that obscenity in the cafeteria. I said that proves to me that he didn’t rape that girl, Jameis is smarter than that. It was his way of saying HA look what I can do. He knows he didn’t rape this chick, that’s why it was so easy for him to still play at a high level and win a National Championship.
———————————————————————–
This is an interesting point. Frequently when people get into trouble, they all of the sudden get religion and go all Jimmy Swagart or Jim Baker crying for forgiveness as some on this board have called for him to do. I have more respect for him for sticking up for himself and not taking the easy path to making this go away. Particularly because it sure seems like he did not commit the crime he is accused of.
May 9th, 2015 at 8:01 am
@ JoeJoe- so if you were accused of rape but didn’t do it would you pay her off? Guess what, I am sure his attorneys did advise him to pay her off and make it go away. You know how many athletes file these types of counter suits? Zero! This tells me there is a very good chance that Jameis didn’t do this. You and Barry may need to rethink things!
May 9th, 2015 at 8:03 am
I have hoping he would pursue the countersuit. He didn’t rape her. She lied. And, settling would have just been fuel for the people who don’t like him.
May 9th, 2015 at 8:09 am
That Glazer daughter was right….this story is going to become HUGE and on the national stage….of course ESPN has an axe to grind now and they have a much larger bully pulpit than JBF…..7 million would be the best money he ever spent….Jameis is in a heap of trouble as a marketing endorsable athlete….it ain’t Fla and Tallahassee anymore Jameis….here comes Nancy Grace
May 9th, 2015 at 8:15 am
Wow JoeJoe, your right, I wonder what will happen when this becomes a national story? They might even make a documentary or something about it.
May 9th, 2015 at 8:18 am
Fungi Nails: seems pretty obvious to me that you want her story to be true. I can only guess this is because it would justify your stance on Jameis from the beginning. Read the freakin counter suit. She has lied about him and the event on multiple occassions. All of the “perceptions” on him are based on lies. Whether you like it or not, this kid wants to clear his name. If you are a Bucs fan, you want this to happen.
May 9th, 2015 at 8:24 am
Jameis will never be lumped in with ben, off the field, again. And on the field ben isnt half the qb mind or worker. Glad jameis isnt letting this slide.
May 9th, 2015 at 8:26 am
“JoeJoes Fungi Nails Says:
May 9th, 2015 at 8:09 am
That Glazer daughter was right….this story is going to become HUGE and on the national stage”
Good.
It’s about time people read the Countersuit, start learning the actual evidence, and hear his side of the story. Most media have only reported the story from her perspective.
The absolute LAST thing he should do is settle. Some people who already dislike him will take than as an admission of guilt. Fight for the truth. Don’t give in to image damaging lies.
May 9th, 2015 at 8:28 am
Jaboo..I don’t want the story to be true..I do have an open mind and am giving equal weight to all information…TPD and FSU did not do the plaintiff any favors…..she did go to the police within hours…and the hospital….TPD did not follow rape protocol…..I have real concerns and have all along had concerns about Jameis AS a FOOTBALL player…the rest is real but secondary
May 9th, 2015 at 8:28 am
Yeah the story has never gone national before.
Everyone knows the New York Times and BSPN are based in Tallahassee.
May 9th, 2015 at 8:40 am
If you read the counter suit, and I know based on previous experience that is a monumental expectation for some of you knuckledraggers, you will see she has what appears to be a very tough road ahead. She has told multiple different stories and her judgement appears to be that of a very disturbed person. I can’t imagine her attorneys will allow this to go to court. She made a grab at the money and it was rejected. After reading this thing she should just go away.
May 9th, 2015 at 8:43 am
The natural reaction is to want to defend yourself in particular if you are accused of something you didn’t do.
I still feel the smart thing is to leave it alone.,…this will simply double-down on the publicity and that increases the distraction….distractions are negative to players and teams.
So…..I understand it, but don’t agree with it…..but it’s a personal thing for Jameis and his right.
This is a stalemate situation…..she can’t prove her allegations and he can’t prove they are false. I’m not sure either suit will succeed.
May 9th, 2015 at 9:00 am
We unfortunately live in a world where simply claiming rape is taken as gospel. Anyone who has taken the time to go over the details of this encounter comes to the same conclusion. Ms. Kinsman is a flat out liar.
May 9th, 2015 at 9:09 am
TampaBucsFan: if you know you are innocent, then screw the team and anyone else. This isn’t about the Bucs for him. She has tarnished his reputation and likely cost him millions. As illustrated in the counter suit, she has knowingly lied on several occasions. His story has remained the same and the facts support his story. It’s a ballsy move but the correct one to clear his name.
May 9th, 2015 at 9:26 am
The political discussion goes nowhere and can never be won by either side. Republicans and Democrats are two sides of the same coin and each have their agendas hidden in talk of ” The American Way”. That’s just my opinion. Anyway, I hope Jameis is found not guilty and I hope that he IS NOT guilty.
May 9th, 2015 at 9:28 am
Fungi – funny how every NFL fan wants teams to “do the right thing” or stand up for the truth…unless it rocks the boat for their team. The right thing is for Winston to defend himself, especially since the entire extortion strategy rests upon a but that he isn’t willing to. Hope the Bucs are backing him to the hilt. Many won’t change their minds but kudos to JW for not just letting the extortion play out
May 9th, 2015 at 9:29 am
Jaboo….what are the lies she repeated…on several occasions? I really don’t know but hear this over and over…help me understand
May 9th, 2015 at 9:34 am
TBBF, if you were The one falsely, persistently, and maliciously accused, and “rapist” was the term people casually used to describe you, would you let it go?
May 9th, 2015 at 9:35 am
It’s literally spelled out in the statement, Fungi
May 9th, 2015 at 9:44 am
TBBF – if you were the one who was falsely, persistently, and maliciously accused, and people casually associated you with one of the most reprehensible acts a man can commit, would you just let it slide and settle? Or would you fight to not be wrongly seen a certain way for the rest of your high-profile life?
May 9th, 2015 at 9:47 am
Reading the report she immediately told her friend who contacted the TPD @ 3 AM of the rape….hardly seems like a calculated extortion plot or a scorned lover….
May 9th, 2015 at 9:48 am
pick6 the same can be said of the accuser…..
May 9th, 2015 at 9:53 am
“It’s literally spelled out in the statement, Fungi”
I have not be able to find what you are refering to…repeated lies…please link or cut and paste the lies
May 9th, 2015 at 9:54 am
@pick6
Personally….I would counter sue…..all I’m saying is that Winston is a very public figure and this will ramp up the press….It is my opinion (and I think I’m entitled to one) that Winston would be better served by not pursuing it. Of course the initial reaction is to go on the counterattack and that certainly is the popular thing for fans to want.
I simply believe that it is another distraction and will have potential negative impact. I also believe that these suits will not be won by either side.
May 9th, 2015 at 10:02 am
I think the girl was treated horribly by the university and Tallahassee. I don’t care if she made the whole thing up, their intimidation and putting off the investigation not even looking at the rape kit for 11 months? Are you kidding me? All that being said that doesn’t mean Jameis is guilty and Im not saying he should pay a dime. If he is innocent he is doing the right thing with the counter suit. The girl should be compensated for the failure of the college and city to do their jobs and hitting their pockets might help against future claims.
May 9th, 2015 at 10:05 am
“I also believe that these suits will not be won by either side”…BINGO……we will never know the truth…never….there are believers on both sides…I have an open mind…..Jameis would be best served to pay up and make it go away…..otherwise it never will….only until she signs the bottom line will it go away…as she will agree to never speak on the subject again
May 9th, 2015 at 10:17 am
Just a bit over a week after the draft and the guy is in the news again for all the wrong reasons. It’s going to be a long year.
May 9th, 2015 at 10:39 am
If anyone here has been involved with litigation….especially something personal & public like this…..they know how much of a distraction it is…..even with a team of lawyers….the plaintiff or defendant gets drawn in and very involved…maybe it will go away soon….and perhaps this gives Winston’s team something to bargain with….this will end in a stalemate IMO….
May 9th, 2015 at 10:40 am
Todd Kiper Says:
May 9th, 2015 at 5:02 am
“Scarborough is not a “Reagan” Republican. He is MSNBC’s “token” Republican.”
LOL I tried to tell him that the other night….
May 9th, 2015 at 10:43 am
JoeJoes Fungi Nails Says:
May 9th, 2015 at 9:29 am
“Jaboo….what are the lies she repeated…on several occasions? I really don’t know but hear this over and over…help me understand”
Not so much lies. More so her story of the night changed many times. And no I’m not going to go into all over again for the 183rd time on this site. Look in the archives about her story changes.
May 9th, 2015 at 10:51 am
Some of you people need to get a clue. Joe Joe, read the counter suit. The lies are detailed within the first several pages. These are documented and factual. they are the very reason charges were never made.
Now, you show me where he has lied about this case. Where is the evidence showing he committed a crime? I have yet to see one person produce a valid argument based on anything other than her screwed up account of the evening. But go ahead and make the case? We are all waiting.
May 9th, 2015 at 10:53 am
I can’t find any meaningful change in her story….she at the urging of her firend went to the TPD @ 3 AM hours following the “incident” and told her story…hardly sounds like a extortion plot or a concocted story by a scorned lover….something very bad happened to her and it was not consentual
May 9th, 2015 at 11:00 am
By the way, I reject the idea that this ends in a stalemate. If she drops the case or loses, he wins. This case has been investigated to the hilt. The facts support his story. I believe if nothing comes of it people will begin to see him as a person who was falsely accused of a truly horrible crime. A claim by a white woman against a black man. A claim that likely cost him millions of dollars and tarnished his reputation. He will begin to look like a very sympathetic character and people will line up behind him.
May 9th, 2015 at 11:04 am
Said she was hit over the head. Not supported by evidence. Said she was drugged. Not supported by evidence. Said she was forced to leave with them. Not supported by evidence. Nurse said evidence suggests consensual sex. I could go on and on. It’s in the suit. Have you read the counter suit?
May 9th, 2015 at 11:04 am
JoeJoes Fungi Nails…have faith someone will come along here and go over the different story changes for you. Just not me anymore.
May 9th, 2015 at 11:05 am
87….actually never seen it here…only repeated mentions
May 9th, 2015 at 11:05 am
Again, other than her account which is shown to be filled with inaccuracies, show the evidence that supports rape?
May 9th, 2015 at 11:07 am
Read the freaking counter suit! It’s all documented.
May 9th, 2015 at 11:10 am
well of course the counter suit is going to claim otherwise….I simply cannot find ANY meaningful change in her story (lies)……meaningful,substantive differences in her story…what we have his eachside claiming different stories…one consensual….the other no it was not consensual….
May 9th, 2015 at 11:16 am
When you come in here. Somebody please explain all the story changes to Fungi. I’m really NOT in the mood today. He’s says he’s never read them before.
LWD or Tiny Tim should be able to help you. Possibly Pickgrin.
May 9th, 2015 at 11:19 am
Oh hell just google Winston’s accuser changes her story. I know this ain’t the only website of posters mentioning it.
May 9th, 2015 at 11:20 am
Don’t bother with JoeJoe! He is on this site constantly as a hater but chooses not to got to the trouble of using Google to find the information and actually read it. He has chosen to focus only on what supports his side of the argument.
May 9th, 2015 at 11:25 am
I get the feeling he is just trying to be difficult or is dense. How about this, if any woman charges a man with rape and has any evidence to support her claim, do you really think they would not make an arrest? Now, take into account it was a white woman accusing a black man.
Again, I’m still waiting. Show the evidence that he committed a crime or just be quiet.
May 9th, 2015 at 11:40 am
I am really happy personally that Winston is seeking legal action against her. It was my opinion this whole time, that she fabricated the rape allegations for personal financial gains. I hope she gets everything she deserves on a punitive level. Opportunists need to be dealt with.
May 9th, 2015 at 11:44 am
test
May 9th, 2015 at 11:45 am
I’m a lawyer and there is no way Ms. Kinsman should ever be able to take the stand, her changes of stories, and inconsistencies are way to obvious and would be shredded in cross examination. She may try to play a sympathy card to a jury, but Federal juries are not as easily packed with sympathetic persons as state juries can be.
The moment this came into federal court her chances of winning, which weren’t that good anyway, really took a hit.
Good luck to her and her counsel, but except for the publicity, I am glad I’m not her attorney. Good luck to Mr. Winston and his counsel as well.
May 9th, 2015 at 11:49 am
some of my comments are not posting this morning….lawyer pete…what are the inconsistences you would shred….so far no one here will post them…eaiser to just say…not going to post them again…go find them yourself
I am not a hater…I am a Buc fan….I googled as 87 suggested…..there is NO substantive difference in her story…merely differences in how many drinks she had and the rape happened 3 hours after the bar scene when it appears it was less time than that….those are figures of speech..numbers of drinks and time……nothing to dispute her accusation of non consensual sex…..red herring diversions….I don’t want to see either Jamesi or the girl railroaded…..I want the truth and so far no one can show me otherwise…the girl went to the police within hours and told her story…which has no substantive differences over time
May 9th, 2015 at 11:49 am
my comments are being censored
May 9th, 2015 at 11:53 am
It doesn’t matter whether any readers here see any inconsistencies in her story. What matters is what the Court believes.
A settlement is a terrible idea. Clearly the Bucs and the Glazers agreed. This would not have been filed without their approval.
May 9th, 2015 at 11:55 am
Pete: what would you say are the odds that she drops thing?
May 9th, 2015 at 11:57 am
Unless someone can post otherwise…there is no substantive change in her story
May 9th, 2015 at 11:58 am
Joe Joe – Lets just start with the first basic fact. Erica was dancing in the club with Jameis and his friend. So drinks and dancing late night at a bar. She then willingly leaves her friends and gets in a cab with three guys she just met. No one can tell you for sure what happened after that but what would a rational person say her intentions were at that point? Maybe you don’t drink. Maybe you have never picked up a girl in a bar. Maybe you are a real religious guy who is innocent and naive as to how these things work, but usually in my experince that situation means you are getting laid. Her own actions make her accusations weak in credibility.
May 9th, 2015 at 12:00 pm
Also as of now, there are 3 people to 1 that say it did not happen as she says it did. This is not even he said she said.
May 9th, 2015 at 12:00 pm
Dream…those are many assumptions you just made……the girl went to the police ASAP….and said she was raped/non consensual sex…..what lies and change of story differ with that
May 9th, 2015 at 12:04 pm
there were only 2 in the bedroom and floor of the bathroom…except for Jamesi friend that told him to stop…the girl was saying stop !
May 9th, 2015 at 12:04 pm
“JoeJoes Fungi Nails Says:
May 9th, 2015 at 11:57 am
Unless someone can post otherwise…there is no substantive change in her story”
That’s your opinion. Awesome you have one. The court will decide is they believe her or not. You can then agree with the Court, or not. Doesn’t matter.
The Bucs and Glazers believe in Winston, they showed that by drafting him. They also support him filing this Countersuit, or he wouldn’t have done it.
That’s what matters to me, what Court, the Glazers, and OBP believe.
May 9th, 2015 at 12:05 pm
After reading over the suit one thing that stands out to me was that Ms.Kinsman said that she could not identify her rapist until later and did not know what apartments that she was raped in. But i wonder why know brought up the fact that they text each other so by having his cell number that would have been a way to identify him. She said she put her number in his phone and that he text her to come out side so she did have a way to identify her attacker.
May 9th, 2015 at 12:09 pm
L&W….yes the courts will decide…but for the time being and the discussion here…why can’t Jameis enablers provide anything other than she changed her story/lied…..I need more than that…and I ca not find any meaningful difference in her story that changes whether it was consensual sex as Winston claims to dispute her claim she was raped
May 9th, 2015 at 12:09 pm
Okay and then there’s this interview with Winston’s lawyer.
From Fox Sports :
Appearing on the Erik Kuselias radio show this morning Jameis Winston’s attorney, David Cornwell, came out firing, attacking the woman in this case, her attorneys, and ESPN.
EK: Major Harding said, “I don’t find him more credible, I don’t find her more credible. She has to have a burden of proof of being more credible and she’s not, so I’m sending everybody home. Do you agree with that reading or did you read it differently?
DC: That’s precisely what he wrote. I don’t find one story more persuasive than the other. She has the burden of showing at minimum 51 percent. I’m not surprised because she adjusted her story for the 7th time and moved the alleged rape out of the bedroom where one of the teammates testified that it appeared to be consensual, and into a bathroom where nobody else was present of claimed to observe the act. This was the 7th change in her story and in a he-said-she-said case, the best the accused can hope for is 50-50, right
EK: Is the single biggest change in her story that she changes her account of the location of where she claimed the alleged attack occurred?
DC: Unfortunately no. There are numerous other areas where she’s changed her story. Frankly, you know what? There are no winners in this and I feel sorry for this young lady. I think that she was abused by her lawyers. To walk her into this hearing room and say that she suffered from traumatic memory loss without offering any evidence of a physical or mental exam, let alone any expert to suggest that there is such a trauma that enables you to have a better memory two years after an event than you do 20 hours after it. I think in many respects Justice Harding was charitable. Our brief lays out in painstaking detail that number of times that she was apparently coached to change her story, so…as I say I don’t think there are any winners in this. I feel sorry for this young lady to the extent that she was taken through the ringers in a process that was inevitable once she was coached to lie.
Her aunt demanded 7 million dollars from us, I mean, what was this about? What was this about? Why do they think it way okay to do this to a 20 year old college student? To Antonor and Loretta’ son because he played football?
May 9th, 2015 at 12:11 pm
JoeJoes Fungi Nails… In her original story she told to the police there was no mention of the bathroom.
That’s story change #1.
May 9th, 2015 at 12:13 pm
So for her story to be right, despite the fact that she left with them willingly by the accounts of all witnesses, for her story to be correct, somehow during the cab ride or events at the appartment, she changed her mind on having sex, Winston kept going, both of his friends are lying to cover it up. The TPD failed to investigate it, the university covered it up, the state attorney and the independent review FSU had done by the supreme court judge failed to uncover the truth. That is a huge chain of deception/incompetance by a large number of people. Its possible or you could come to a much easier conclusion: She went to a bar, left with guys, got laid, when confronted by her room mate on her walk of shame back to her room, she lied because her room mate knew she had already had a boyfriend, thereby starting this crazy chain of events. Once the genie was out of the bottle she lost control of the story and was not able to put it back in. We will probably never know which version is true.
May 9th, 2015 at 12:14 pm
“JoeJoes Fungi Nails Says:
May 9th, 2015 at 11:57 am
Unless someone can post otherwise…there is no substantive change in her story”
Sorry, the DA disagrees with you.
“Her recall of the events that night have been moving around a good bit,” Meggs said. “There’s some memory lapses. There’s some major issues.”
So, unless you can post otherwise, there has been substantive change in her story.
May 9th, 2015 at 12:14 pm
From Winston’s lawyer :
“Unfortunately no. There are numerous other areas where she’s changed her story. Frankly, you know what? There are no winners in this and I feel sorry for this young lady. I think that she was abused by her lawyers. To walk her into this hearing room and say that she suffered from traumatic memory loss without offering any evidence of a physical or mental exam, let alone any expert to suggest that there is such a trauma that enables you to have a better memory two years after an event than you do 20 hours after it. I think in many respects Justice Harding was charitable. Our brief lays out in painstaking detail that number of times that she was apparently coached to change her story, so…as I say I don’t think there are any winners in this. I feel sorry for this young lady to the extent that she was taken through the ringers in a process that was inevitable once she was coached to lie.”
May 9th, 2015 at 12:17 pm
@joe joe – Legally you are simply incorrect, but your belief is irrelevant, as was said above only the court’s belief is what matters. The judge first and then the jury should it get to that.
@Jaboo – a Federal Judge has a great deal of power to dismiss this case (throw it our as it were) if the plaintiff fails to show that her case has merit. State court judges are far more likely to let a difference of fact be determined by a jury.
Unless her attorney is simply using this case as an “advertising” opportunity, believe me, money is not the only valuable thing in the legal field, then unless she has deep pockets needed to overcome both the medical and scientific evidence against this being a intentional tort by Winston, and can show actual damages/injuries, I think her case is a long shot based on her conflicting accounts and the official record to date.
That said I think Mr. Winston will have a hard time winning out right as well, proving defamation is hard and he will have to actually show he suffered damages and so far he was drafted #1, got #1 money, and unless he can show he lost out on endorsements BECAUSE of this plaintiff’s actions, and not for potentially other reasons, then his interference with business claim seems a long shot too. He still has the opportunity to earn outside money from endorsements and may for many years to come.
That said I would have advised Mr. Winston to counter sue, especially when it hit federal court.
FWIW
May 9th, 2015 at 12:18 pm
She has NEVER changed her claim that the sex was not consensual….and that is what this claim is about….slight differences in timeline…differences in how many drinks did you have….no don’t dismiss her claim of rape
May 9th, 2015 at 12:19 pm
Many of my rebutals in this thread do not appear….
May 9th, 2015 at 12:19 pm
She lied because if wanted to identify Jameis she could have gave them his phone number form text they exchanged when he said come outside.
May 9th, 2015 at 12:23 pm
“there were only 2 in the bedroom and floor of the bathroom…except for Jamesi friend that told him to stop…the girl was saying stop !”
Where in the record did you see this? I’m not finding this assertion anywhere.
May 9th, 2015 at 12:23 pm
Despite the fact that the lie about the shot does nothing
to advance her new lie that trauma caused her memory loss, Ms. Kinsman is stuck with it.So, she has tried to make the lie better.
1)First, Ms. Kinsman informed Officer Dinorah Harris of the TPD that while shewas walking through the bar an unknown male handed her a shot;
2)Second, in her written statement to law enforcement investigators, Ms. Kinsmansaid that one of Mr. Jorda
n’s friends gave her a shot;
3)Third, in a TPD interview with Officer Clayton Fallis, Ms. Kinsman said that asshe was walking through the club she was given a shot by
an unknown whitemale,
who she believed was Mr. Jordan’s friend. ;
4)Fourth, in an interviewwith Officer Scott Angulo of the TPD, Ms. Kinsman saida bartender gave her the shot; and, most recently,
5)Fifth, after identifying four men other than Mr. Winston, Ms. Kinsman claimed during Mr. Winston’s Code of Conduct Hearing that Mr.
Winston gave hertheshot
May 9th, 2015 at 12:24 pm
JoeJoes Fungi Nails Says:
May 9th, 2015 at 12:19 pm
Many of my rebutals in this thread do not appear….
—————————————————————
I have been noticing the same thing. I am wondering if we use certain key words in our post, it does not clear moderation.
May 9th, 2015 at 12:26 pm
Initially, Ms. Kinsman claimed her lack of memory occurred because “some dude hither on the head.”Ms. Kinsman told this lie to Bria Henry and Jenna Weisberg, the firstpeople to whom Ms. Kinsman apparently spoke following her sexual encounter with Mr.Winston.Ms.Kinsman said that she had been hit in the back of the head, blacked out, andwoke up with a man on top of her. When the medical evidence made clear that Ms. Kinsmanhad not been struck in the head, Ms. Kinsman changed her story and claimed that Ms.Henryand Ms. Weisberg had misunderstood her.After her lie that she had been struck on the head was refuted by medical evidence,Ms.Kinsman just told a new lie and said her memory lapse and inconsistent version of events was the result of having unknowingly consumed some unspecified drug.Ms.
Kinsman’s counselproclaimed that the “only explanation” for Ms. Kinsman’s memory loss was that Ms. Kinsman had been drugged. Thisstatementwas conclusively rebutted byscientific evidence.Dr. Bruce Goldberger of the University of Florida Pathology Laboratories tested Ms.
Kinsman’s urine for the presence of any substance that could have caused Ms. Kinsman to black out and/or to lose her memory. All tests were negative for 172 different drugs andtheir metabolites. Ms.Kinsman had not been drugged.Having been exposed by medical and scientific evidence establishing that she wasneither struck in the head nor drugged, Ms. Kinsman simply told another new lie. Ms.Kinsman claimed that her memory loss was attributable to “trauma.” Ms. Kinsman claimed, without any psychological or psychiatric examinations or any scientific evidence, that not only did trauma cause her to lose her memory, but that her memory improved over time.
May 9th, 2015 at 12:27 pm
JBF ….Memorial day is coming up….many men gave their lives for the freedoms we enjoy…..freedom of speech among them….I have been with too many as their lives slipped away as I worked to save their life…..don’t censor me…and then go all phony patriotic end of May
May 9th, 2015 at 12:27 pm
There is really no reason to post, for one person, whose opinion will not matter at all to the proceedings, something that is part of the public record. It’s all available to anyone who cares to look.
May 9th, 2015 at 12:30 pm
First, in her pre-hearing brief in Mr. Winston’s Code of Conduct hearing, Ms.Kinsman claimed for the first time that she was “taken” and “coerced” into the taxicab.
This new “fact” is contradicted by the record, including testimony by Ms. Kinsman’s friends.
Specifically, Ms. Kessler testified on several occasions that Ms. Kinsman received a text message asking her to come outside of Potbelly’s. Ms. Kinsman asked Ms. Kessler if she should go outside. Ms. Kessler testified that if Ms. Kinsman wanted to go outside, she should.
In turn, Ms. Kessler testified that Ms. Kinsman immediately left Potbelly’s and went
outside.
May 9th, 2015 at 12:31 pm
I could go on forever… But they are really long, sorry. Lol
May 9th, 2015 at 12:38 pm
a curse upon the soul that is censoring by comments
May 9th, 2015 at 12:40 pm
Pete, thanks for the info and makes perfect sense.
May 9th, 2015 at 12:42 pm
Give it up Joe Joe, just like EK you have no case.
May 9th, 2015 at 12:52 pm
Don’t be silly. Veterans did not give up their lives so someone can post whatever they want on a website. Behave and don’t use naughty words and all is well. At the end of the day, Joe is responsible for what is on this site, including in a court of law. The same court system those same servicemen and woman gave the ultimate sacrifice to uphold.
May 9th, 2015 at 12:54 pm
@JoeJoes Fungi Nails the main reason the state gave for not pressing charges were because they didn’t believe she was credible after giving inconsistent statements…
May 9th, 2015 at 12:55 pm
Anyone who still might have a sliver of doubt in their head that maybe Jameis did do something wrong that night needs to click the link Joe provided and actually read the lengthy countersuit text.
Yes you can say – “Well, that’s his side of the story”. She has her side too which is very different.” But the thing is – every single detail that is outlined in JW’s countersuit is verified fact. The lawyers were careful to only include statements that can be proven in court either via direct evidence gathered by police or by testimony from direct witnesses (including the testimony of Erica’s friends).
Ms Kinsman’s false claim that Jameis raped her is based on NO facts. There is not one known fact that supports that accusation other than her extremely flawed and constantly changing verbal telling of what she said happened.
This is not a she said/he said situation. This is a she said/but what he said has facts behind it situation. Which is exactly why TPD never even considered arresting Winston or trying to charge him with something – and also why all 6 attempts by the legal and or school disciplinary systems to look into the known facts has resulted in judgement that there is no evidence to back up the claim that Winston broke the law in any way.
Erica’s legal team has played the non fact checking media like a fiddle and greatly damaged Winston’s reputation. It’s too bad that Winston can’t sue Kinsman’s lawyers instead – because they are the real damaging party in this situation. Erica initiated this false claim for reasons unknown – but within a few weeks, she had backed away from it and was not even cooperating at all with police – which again is why there was never even a consideration of arresting or charging Jameis with anything. It was not until her aunt the lawyer (who claimed Erica “would never sleep with a black boy” before finding out that her boyfriend was – gasp – a black boy) got involved that the case got pushed to the media. (Funny how that timing coincided with the emergence of Winston as a star QB) and the media (NYT in particular) ran with it hard – ignoring facts to push out a sensational narrative about the star football player who got away with rape with help from his school and the local police dept.
I was very surprised to see Kinsman’s lawyers file a civil suit against Winston.
For 2 reasons.
1. It opens the door to a countersuit which has already happened.
2. It opens Erica up to perjury on the witness stand if either civil case actually makes it to court. She has never had to face cross examination under oath.
I can tell you what the strategy is from Kinsman’s legal team’s perspective. The strategy (short of a settlement – which is the real goal – but is not going to happen) is to keep this case in the public eye and in the news for as long as possible – without ever having to actually go to court and confront the facts and be bound by the pesky constraints of the legal system that have cleared Winston of wrongdoing 6 different times already.
They will file endless motions to delay the civil claim proceedings and keep this story going – but have no intention of actually taking it to court. Winston’s countersuit is smart because it forces the issue.
Erica will be out there on the talk show circuit in the meantime earning what $ she can from this by retelling her lies – while the lawyers file multiple delays to keep it out of court, but still an active “complaint”. Its all she’s gonna get – and hopefully that and more will be taken away by a favorable ruling in the countersuit if that can ever be forced into a courtroom so the evidence can be ruled on.
I’m very glad to see Jameis fighting back legally now that the draft is behind him. I doubt it will happen – but I hope he gets his day in court to try and prove once and for all that he did not force himself on this woman. That is his hope I’m sure. To bring the facts into the light of day via the legal system to combat this false narrative that he got away with rape which has been spewed and regurgitated by the sensationalistic factions of the media.
Just let your lawyers do their thing and concentrate on football Jameis. Perhaps you will get a chance to have the actual facts of what happened that night be reported to the public as a result of this action.
In the meantime – you have your sanctuary back. Time to start earning those millions my brother. Do it big and there will be a hundred more million$ available in about 4-5 years when you sign your 2nd contract.
May 9th, 2015 at 1:01 pm
Joe..I have not posted ANYTHING inappropriate or off topic or naughty words…don’t call me dumb or be condescending to me
May 9th, 2015 at 1:07 pm
Joe you have my email…..show me what I posted that was inappropriate or may have exposed you to a “court of law”….I have had at least 6 posts on this tread not appear….and not one had anything that would quailify as being out of bounds..other than it confronted the Jameis party line
May 9th, 2015 at 1:30 pm
Why won’t my comment post Joe? Not saying anything at all that could be considered questionable.
May 9th, 2015 at 1:35 pm
Joe Joe. I’ll call you dumb. And an idiot! No one cares that you dont see the truth. Let it go. Jameis is a Buc and the court will settle the case. Not you on JBF.
May 9th, 2015 at 2:04 pm
I tried to post a comment an hour ago that has yet to go up. It was actually pro-Winston for this case and had no bad language. It had links to two stories that laid out the inconsistencies in Kinsman’s case. Whatever.
May 9th, 2015 at 4:00 pm
What’s really going to kill her case are the positive tweets about FSU football and Jameis and the tweets to @fsucleatchasers AFTER this supposedly happened.
May 9th, 2015 at 5:30 pm
Anyone who still has a sliver of doubt in their head that maybe Jameis did do something wrong that night needs to click the link Joe provided and actually read the lengthy countersuit text.
Yes you can say – “Well, that’s his side of the story”. She has her side too which is very different.” But the thing is – every single detail that is outlined in JW’s countersuit is verified fact. The lawyers were careful to only include statements that can be proven in court either via direct evidence gathered by police or by testimony from direct witnesses (including the testimony of Erica’s friends).
Ms Kinsman’s false claim that Jameis took advantage of her and forced himself on her is based on NO facts. There is not one known fact that supports that accusation other than her extremely flawed and constantly changing verbal telling of what she said happened.
This is not a she said/he said situation. This is a she said/but what he said has facts behind it situation. Which is exactly why TPD never even considered arresting Winston or trying to charge him with something – and also why all 6 attempts by the legal and or school disciplinary systems to look into the known facts has resulted in judgement that there is no evidence to back up the claim that Winston broke the law in any way.
Erica’s legal team has played the non fact checking media like a fiddle and greatly damaged Winston’s reputation. It’s too bad that Winston can’t sue Kinsman’s lawyers instead – because they are the real damaging party in this situation. Erica initiated this false claim for reasons unknown – but within a few weeks, she had backed away from it and was not even cooperating at all with police – which again is why there was never even a consideration of arresting or charging Jameis with anything. It was not until her aunt the lawyer (who claimed Erica “would never sleep with a black boy” before finding out that her boyfriend was – gasp – a black boy) got involved that the case got pushed to the media. (Funny how that timing – 9 months after the fact – coincided with the emergence of Winston as a star QB) and the media (NYT in particular) ran with it hard – ignoring facts to push out a sensational narrative about the star football player who got away with a terrible crime with help from his school and the local police dept.
I was very surprised to see Kinsman’s lawyers file a civil suit against Winston.
For 2 reasons.
1. It opens the door to a countersuit which has already happened.
2. It opens Erica up to perjury on the witness stand if either civil case actually makes it to court. She has never had to face cross examination under oath.
I can tell you what the strategy is from Kinsman’s legal team’s perspective. The strategy (short of a settlement – which is the real goal – but is not going to happen) is to keep this case in the public eye and in the news for as long as possible – without ever having to actually go to court and confront the facts and be bound by the pesky constraints of the legal system that have cleared Winston of wrongdoing 6 different times already.
They will file endless motions to delay the civil claim proceedings and keep this story going – but have no intention of actually taking it to court. Winston’s countersuit is smart because it forces the issue.
Erica will be out there on the talk show circuit in the meantime earning what $ she can from this by retelling her lies – while the lawyers file multiple delays to keep it out of court, but still an active “complaint”. Its all she’s gonna get – and hopefully that and more will be taken away by a favorable ruling in the countersuit if that can ever be forced into a courtroom so the evidence can be ruled on.
I’m very glad to see Jameis fighting back legally now that the draft is behind him. I doubt it will happen – but I hope he gets his day in court to try and prove once and for all that he did not force himself on this woman. That is his hope I’m sure. To bring the facts into the light of day via the legal system to combat this false narrative that he got away with a terrible crime which has been spewed and regurgitated by the sensationalistic factions of the media.
Just let your lawyers do their thing and concentrate on football Jameis. Perhaps you will get a chance to have the actual facts of what happened that night be reported to the public as a result of this action.
In the meantime – you have your sanctuary back. Time to start earning those millions my brother. Do it big and there will be a hundred more million$ available in about 4-5 years when you sign your 2nd contract.
May 9th, 2015 at 6:20 pm
Pickgrin,
I’m giving you a standing ovation.
Well said Sir!
May 9th, 2015 at 8:00 pm
Yes! Well said Pickgrin.
May 9th, 2015 at 10:36 pm
JoeJoes Fungi Nails….perhaps you’re just a little… too dug in. You need a vacation from JBF. Clear your mind for a little bit.
May 10th, 2015 at 12:00 am
This was one of the big reasons to pass on Jameis but nobody listened including the glazers, licht, and lovie. So now I am a Jameis fan who hopes he didn’t do it and the charge gets dropped. He will deal with drama when he goes out for the rest of his career…. get used to it! and hopefully he will handle it!
May 10th, 2015 at 4:34 am
Let’s draft the other kid
May 10th, 2015 at 7:45 am
BUC IT: not sure where you’ve been but he’s been handling it for over 2 years now. This is exactly why you draft the kid. If he didn’t do it then he has dealt with adversity that most can’t comprehend and has excelled at levels most can’t comprehend. I want a fighter to lead my team.