Is Team Glazer Too Hasty?
April 18th, 2015
During a discussion of the shelf life of Lovie Smith today on WDAE-AM 620, Tampa Tribune beat writer Woody Cummings said he’s not sure Raheem Morris and Greg Schiano got enough time to build their regimes.
Joe nearly drove into oncoming traffic on Hillsborough Avenue.
Joe’s ears didn’t fail him. It was compelling radio. Three years for Raheem and two for Schiano represented hooks that might have been too quick, Cummings said. He went on to claim Lovie Smith likely is the right guy for the Bucs’ head job, but only if Team Glazer gives him enough time.
Joe pulled off the road for an iced coffee, whiskey and to chain smoke a few cigarettes. Joe really needed to wrap his head around all that.
After much thought, Joe will concede Schiano possibly should have had more time. If one gives Lovie a pass for the Jeff Tedford mess, then it seems fair to give Schiano a pass for a franchise quarterback he didn’t draft going mental, The MRSA, the loss of his All-Pro guard and Darrelle Revis and Adrian Clayborn coming off major surgery.
Joe can’t go there with Raheem. The guy lost 10 games in a row with a good quarterback. That’s damn hard to do in the NFL. Plus, Raheem’s team obviously quit on him in Year 3 of his tenure. That 2011 club was 4-2 with big wins against Atlanta and New Orleans, and then the roof caved in. A big part of that slide was bad coaching.
And now there’s Lovie. Joe specifically talked to Joel Glazer about steadily eroding patience in the NFL among fans and owners. Glazer sees the trend.
Joel Glazer: You bring up an excellent subject here. Because I have found over the years that there is a lot less patience than there was many years ago. But it’s understandable because in the National Football League these days you see teams like Kansas City go from the first pick in the draft to the playoffs. Ultimately, if you look around the league, the successful teams have built through the draft with somewhat of a patient approach. Ultimately, I think that’s how you build long term success. I feel the fans’ frustration. We have the same frustration. You want it now, and sometimes you have to fight that urge to do things that are so short term in nature that they don’t really help you get your ultimate goal. But it’s part of the society we live in and everyone wants results. No different than us.
So is Lovie on a hot seat? Not one bit. But it’s a fluid situation.
If December arrives and the Bucs are, say, 3-9 in the league’s worst division, then Team Glazer would be frustrated right along with the fans and forced to scrutinize the failure. Lovie under a microscope in this scenario wouldn’t look pretty.
In theory, nothing would be worse for the franchise than having a rookie quarterback lose his head coach after one season. But the hunger for a winner typically trumps that reality.
Abrupt change isn’t always the wrong move. Does anyone think Raheem or Schiano would have led the Bucs to the Super Bowl?
April 18th, 2015 at 9:18 pm
“Does anyone think Raheem or Schiano would have led the Bucs to the Super Bowl?”
Raheem…no, Schiano probably not Super Bowl, but I do believe the Bucs probably win 8 or 9 games with Schiano last year, won the historically bad NFC South, and make their first playoff appearance in a long time. Ah well what’s done is done, have to hope Lovie can turn things around now
April 18th, 2015 at 9:23 pm
Schiano more so than Raheem.
April 18th, 2015 at 9:24 pm
You can’t give Lovie credit for cutting his mistakes and not hold the the glazers accountable for not cutting the biggest mistake of all which was the hiring of the incompetent dinosaur Lovie Smith.
April 18th, 2015 at 9:25 pm
TOTL:
I notice that no one is lining up to hire Schiano, not even his buddy Belichick….
April 18th, 2015 at 9:36 pm
Thanks Lovie for landing us Jameis.
April 18th, 2015 at 9:37 pm
Agree. Schiano should have one more year. If Lovie wasn’t coming out of retirement, he and Dominik had one more year. But Glazers didn’t want to miss out on Lovie.
April 18th, 2015 at 9:39 pm
Schisno at least seemed like he had a plan, might not have been a real good one but he had a plan. Raheem’s last year was pretty damn embarrassing, I’ve never seen a team mail it in like that before. There didnt seem to be a real identity or direction, guys were just showing up to collect a paycheck.
April 18th, 2015 at 9:41 pm
Shoot Raheems last season was the first time ever I would actually skip watching some of the Bucs games on Sunday. It was unbearable.
April 18th, 2015 at 9:42 pm
It won’t simply be the record next year that determines Lovie’s fate it will be how he gets it.
8-8 does not always “equal” 8-8.
If Lovie starts 6-2 and then goes 2-6 losing the last four games his seat could grow warm. If however he starts 2-6 and finishes 6-2 with a 4 game winning streak he’ll be the toast of the town. Especially if it’s with a rookie QB who begins to show improvement.
April 18th, 2015 at 9:44 pm
I will admit, I was not really opposed to hiring Lovie as head coach last year. But I have to say, looking at hindsight, Schiano should’ve gotten another year IMO.
Let’s be honest here, if Lovie were a younger or less experienced head coach, without the SB appearance, his actions in his 1 year as Bucs head coach would be looked at as complete lunacy.
April 18th, 2015 at 9:48 pm
I wonder how Glennon would’ve looked last year with a better O-line and in the same offense (one not ran by Arroyo).
Either the MGM would’ve been destroyed or more alive than ever.
April 18th, 2015 at 9:49 pm
It’s easier for me to just convince myself that Lovie is not as incompetent as the he looked last season, by telling myself it was a tank job, early.
I could be wrong, but it’s what got me through last season.
If it was a tank job early, that sucks for the players and the fans.
All can be forgiven if he turns it around this season, but I’m not holding my breath.
April 18th, 2015 at 9:53 pm
Then again, making McCown and DB Jenkins the starters without any competition going into the season shows a lack of competence to begin with.
Perhaps it wasn’t a total tank job after all.
April 18th, 2015 at 9:54 pm
And so while we’re in the midst of discussing the aftermath of a 2-14 season will you all mind if I celebrate at least one Tampa sports team that is kicking butt.
I was lucky enough to have tickets to today’s Lightning trouncing of the Red Wings. Big fight in the first period…the boys have pluck…and their Captain Stamkos was right in the thick of it once again getting a Wing defenseman in headlock and bulldogging him.
5-1 rebound and we have a series once again. And these guys are fun to watch.
i long for the days when the Bucs emulate the Lightning. And this time around I hope they are fun to watch as well as fun to cheer on to victory.
My biggest fear of hiring Lovie was his desire to copy his mentor and play “Dungyball”. The signing of Koetter has allayed my fears.
According to SI Koetter is said to be implementing an uptempo offense with little to no time in the huddle. I appreciate defense but I LOVE offense. I don’t enjoy taking the other teams punches and holding up and saying see you can’t knock us out. No I’d rather go right after the other team. Crap on 2 runs…a desperate 3rd down pass and then punt. Gawd is that boring even if we did win.
Let’s get creative and think outside of the box. I’d love to see us sign Tebow. Not for QB where he clearly lacks the arm to play but as an H back. Dude has bulked up and looks like a beast. Imagine throwing the ball to Tebow and then letting him fling a double pass. Tebow may not be able to hit tight windows but if a trick play worked he could find a wide open receiver.
Let’s bring some fun to the game and go..go..go…just like the Lightning.
April 18th, 2015 at 9:59 pm
BTW…one of the exciting moments of the game featured VJAX!!!
There’s his smiling face on the jumbo scoreboard. He holds up his hands and says I use these to catch passes. But it’s the third period. It’s time for you to put your hands together and make some noise. Go Bolts. The crowd went nucking futs.
VJAX has been one of the best FA’s we’ve ever signed. Good on the field and even a better “face” of the Bucs out in the community.
When the time comes and I realize it’s just around the corner…I hope VJAX and the Bucs can get together and craft a fair deal that lets him retire as a Buc.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:00 pm
87 I would not thank Lovie for Jameis just yet.
Good ‘ol Lovie could end Winston’s career before it starts. Fingers crossed that doesn’t happen.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:01 pm
I have more faith in lovie than the other two. Especially bc we got an actual oc
April 18th, 2015 at 10:04 pm
Yeah I was surprised the Bolts lost game 1. I think clearly they are the better team. Shouldn’t have too many problems this round. I don’t keep up with them that much to be honest though. Haven’t since 2010, that was a great year for them.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:05 pm
And stpetebucsfan lost all.credibility when u said sign tebow
April 18th, 2015 at 10:12 pm
Why Foghead. I clearly pointed out he doesn’t have the ability to play QB.
Have you seen him lately. Do you not even respect his athletic talent. He won a National Championship and he did it using his legs a lot!!!
Why couldn’t Tebow play H back. Line up at tight end…he’s certainly big enough, line up as a FB…again he’s huge and he can run the ball…line up wide…if he caught a pass he could certainly throw it as well as Julian Edelman who played QB at freaking Kent State and what? The College of San Mateo?
Not exactly SEC competition. If Timmy would accept the reality that he is simply NOT and NFL QB and signed on to simply be the best athlete he can and help the Bucs why is that hard to imagine?
April 18th, 2015 at 10:15 pm
Vjax has played what 3 seasons for the Bucs this upcoming one being his 4th. He’ll retire soon with no great fanfare, just retire.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:15 pm
In a perfect world Schiano probably should’ve gotten another year. But everyone knew that after that Miami game on MNF (or was it TNF…?) , he had to go. Who knows how things would’ve turned out had he been here next year, unfortunately we just couldn’t afford another meltdown season, however likely that may have been.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:18 pm
DraftJameis…Schiano won that game against the Fins on Monday Night Football.
Why would everyone know that he needed to go after that game?
April 18th, 2015 at 10:20 pm
I think Raheem Morris was a good coach. the problem was the team didn’t spend any money on players when he was coach.
they cut all the high priced players the year he started as head coach.
we will never know how well he would have done because of the cheapness at the time of the bucs organization. raheem had to fire the d-coordinator. Raheem became the head coach/d-coordinator the rest of the season and the defense did much better.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:25 pm
Dolphins game? You mean the first win of the season and the one Bobby Rainey went off on?
April 18th, 2015 at 10:27 pm
Jon Gruden was fired for going 9-7 after Monte Kiffin submarines the defense by having mentally checked out to go to Tennessee with Lane.
Just saying.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:29 pm
In Schiano’s defense, he finished the season 4-4, and also punched the Seahawks in the mouth in Seattle. He was at least showing recovery progress. I wanted him gone as much as the next guy, but only because I thought we could do better than 4-12.
Or 2-14.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:34 pm
I think he was talking about the Thursday Night game against the Panthers. That place was hell for Schiano that night. That’s when the paper bags came out, and I strolled around Ray Jay with my This Sucks sign. Poor guy looked right up at my sign before he ran into the tunnel. In hindsight I felt bad for him that night.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:38 pm
Well the local media hounded Schiano out of town for disregarding them….he was learning and adapting ……Lovie on the other hand is the beneficiary of the media easing up after Schiano….Lovie has no excuse as a coach…none….
April 18th, 2015 at 10:41 pm
Captain Stamkos was right in the thick of it once again getting a Wing defenseman in headlock and bulldogging him
————
I’d like to see our captain do that, at least the NFL equivalent. And I think Russell Shepard throws TD passes. I think he played qb in HS and has throw passes in the NFL.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:53 pm
Yes I meant the Carolina game. The hostility in the building that night was frightening.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:55 pm
Schiano should have been given another year.
April 18th, 2015 at 10:55 pm
Neither of those coaches and neither will Lovie lead this team to a SB.
He has poor game management, antiquated philosophies, and bad with personnel moves!
Does he matchup X and O with the Bruce Ariens or Belicheks or other elite coaches???
NO!
It’s only a matter of time before this ends badly.
April 18th, 2015 at 11:40 pm
Raheem was set up to fail. He didn’t have enough to work with because at the time the Glazers were focused on Manchester United. After he got fired the new league rule about spending 85% of the salary cap kicked in and this team has gotten progressively worse since then from 7-9 to 4-12 and 2-14.
April 19th, 2015 at 12:04 am
Architek- “It’s only a matter of time before this ends badly.”
Exactly. I had such high hopes when Lovie was hired then all the bad decisions started rolling in…
-HC hiring GM
-starting Trash McCown in March
-Michael (who?) Johnson
-Anthony (who?) Collins
-blowing up oline
-changing team jerseys
-turning over 50% of roster
-telling fans not to be patient
-always insisting “it’s kinda simple as that”
-going 2-14 after reminding everyone ad nauseum we are 4-12 football team
Fair to say that the man exhibits levels of incompetence the likes of which have never been seen in the modern era of the Bucaneers
April 19th, 2015 at 12:23 am
What is Cummings talking about Lovie being the guy for the job? Why? What has he shown you other than his resume to make you believe that?
Don’t fire him, but simmer down with the entitlement.
You want to build this though the draft?? Well they have been NOT doing that – this team is pretty bad top to bottom, a few bright spots at WR, LB, and DT aside.
Now, unlike the 2 aforementioned coaches, Lovie’s players never quit on him – they just weren’t good.
April 19th, 2015 at 12:49 am
I’m not giving Lovie cover unquestionably, but he did lose an OC before Game 1 and that started the cluster of 2014. As long as they draft a QB, and with Koetter, he’s earned another couple years.
They trade the pick, both L’s need to go unless it’s a Herschel the deal. You get few chances at a franchise type QB. Trading for an aging Rivers is lunacy. I like like Rivers, but this team needs more than 2-3 years.
April 19th, 2015 at 1:22 am
Players execute, make plays, and win game – not coaches. Consistency is what the Bucs need on the coaching side.
April 19th, 2015 at 1:27 am
I know we as fans of this team have been through a lot of ups and downs and downs and more downs, but we really have to be patient ! We have to give this regime time! In these days and times the nfl doesn’t believe in this. It’s what have you done for me lately. It kills me when after one year, you have the no it all fan that’s crying off with their head!!!! If the team hasn’t given up on the coaching staff and is still playing hard it can be fixed!! So funny how these crazy fans who have never played always have the answer and can tell you ” all you have to do is this or they should have done that! Ha!! This isn’t a video game, it hurts like hades during a 16 game season . All that to say
PATIENTS !!! It’s a virtue !!!!!!
April 19th, 2015 at 2:12 am
The easy thing to do is mock Schiano. I thought it was a huge mistake on giving up on him so soon. I blame the fans for this. It’s a new day. Passion must flow through our veins as we pick the next best thing. See in order to achieve we must forgive. Trust in the things we don’t see and believe in the weak we think we see. DIRT. My honest opinion about Winston is he has done nothing wrong. Rape. Nope. We have to learn to give a man chance and not give into so much what is socially acceptable. Is big as he might be or how amazing he will be. Or maybe none of that. Wisdom has not found him yet, for that takes time. Grow. Remember he deserves a chance and forgiveness just like you and I have prayed for many times. It’s about BUC time!
April 19th, 2015 at 5:04 am
Schiano was terrible. He routinely put both his offensive and defensive players in the worst possible positions to make plays with his poor schemes. He hired Bill Sheridan, who was quite possibly the worst DC in league history, and numbers support this, and Mike Sullivan, whose offense wasn’t much better than Arroyo’s. This two year crap show and regression were his fault. His handling of delicate players was terrible…and his fault. His ability to play to his players’ strengths was non-existent and his ability to adapt was among the worst I’ve ever seen. X’s and O’s, he was worse than Raheem. By far. And Raheem sucked with X’s and O’s.
April 19th, 2015 at 5:51 am
I think perhaps Schiano should have had one more year….but the key to the Bucs lack of success is with disastrously bad draft picks….and that you can hang mostly on Dominick.
April 19th, 2015 at 6:41 am
Morris was a train wreak. Minimal experience and it showed with time. Shiano did what he was hired to do, regain control of a team that was clearly out of control. He did that, and I tip my hat.
Would Shiano have a vet like Frazier coaching the defense? Would Shiano have been able to recruit Koetter? Would Shiano have Adrian Peterson willing to play in Tampa?
Lovie Smith is the Head Coach, not the offensive coordinator, not even the defensive coordinator….the Head Coach. The leader, the guy who is supposed to attract the other guys. He’s doing that. Maybe not as fast as we would all like, but he is doing it.
Some of you guys are talking crazy. Find me an ex-Buc who says the Tampa 2 is an easy defense to play. Tell me Dirk Koetter would be here if Shiano still was. Step back and understand what the role of a head coach really is. Morris and Shiano stunk because no NFL coach worth a crap would work under them. Shiano did bring in Butch Davis, who wasn’t even willing to accept the DC role, but operated as counsel. Wow, what a score.
April 19th, 2015 at 8:52 am
@Bill. Wow, I normally just read and keep it moving but that deserves an honorable mention. I completely agree
April 19th, 2015 at 9:01 am
You know there are alot of similarities between Schiano and Jameis
both successful at the college level
but their schtick
does work in the NFL
April 19th, 2015 at 9:14 am
JoeJoes Fungi…they it will be a long five years then for you.
April 19th, 2015 at 9:31 am
I agree with MarineBucsFan!
Bill that was an excellent post full of great points!
BTW MBF Semper Fi!
April 19th, 2015 at 10:09 am
@ Bill
“I watch all their film every week just because I’m selfishly still involved. They can’t play Cover-2. It’s the simplest defense possible, and they make the same mistakes over and over and over again,” Barber said on the TBD in the AM show.
“As we said, Ronde doesn’t hold back one bit and rightfully so. He is just as frustrated with the team’s performance as the fans are, except for the fact that Barber knows what goes into successfully executing the Tampa 2. And in that respect, Ronde believes this year’s Bucs team is failing to grasp “the simplest defense possible.”
April 19th, 2015 at 10:11 am
I liked Schiano better than I like Lovie, he was younger, smarter and more energetic. Lovie is the big snooze, I’m surprised the pigeons aren’t nesting on his noggin.
April 19th, 2015 at 11:45 am
Lovie’s record against .500 or better teams should be more than enough to fire him, losing 2 out of 3 times to those teams. How can the Bucs win the Super Bowl when the coach typically has to beat a minimum of 3 teams with winning records? With Lovie as coach, it sounds like a statistical impossibility. Lovie is a nice guy, but not made to be a head coach. One playoff win in 7 seasons pretty much tells you that,
April 19th, 2015 at 12:14 pm
It doesn’t only take patience to build through the draft, but with coaches as well.
Every coach replaced results in a new vision brought in, changing the direction of drafts here. Therefore, no vision is ever completed.
THAT is why the Buccaneers are in such a sore spot.
April 19th, 2015 at 12:26 pm
Some people believe a coach has to be full of fire and brimstone, but they are wrong. If you look at such coaches, more have failed than succeeded. Yes, a few have found success, but it certainly isn’t the norm.
By the same token, I suppose the very calm coaches have similar results. I think, perhaps, that the middle ground might be best.
That said, Tony Dungy was a peaceful, calm coach, and he got results. He had the benefit of Sam’s drafts bringing in great players before he arrived. With Lovie, there were only two on defense…David and McCoy. Vincent Jackson on offense.
His way can work, but it requires patience and a good GM. NOT a GM who can only acquire 6th and 7th round picks in trades, who cannot spot talent in free agency, and who doesn’t know how to negotiate.
April 19th, 2015 at 12:38 pm
If you beleive certain people around here, Schiano is a two faced liar that is 100 % responsible for a certain player falling off. Not my opinion. And I hope it isnt true. You would assume if it was though, you would have heard something from the NFLPA by now.
April 19th, 2015 at 12:46 pm
Im not so sure that Dominik cant draft but rather his coaching staff’s cant coach and develop young players. Probably a little of both.
April 19th, 2015 at 12:56 pm
I defend lovie on this board quite a bit. But…Lovie is a defensive coach with alot of experience. So I dont want to hear that our players cant learn or dont know this defense if it struggles next season. Tampa 2 is a coverage. You cant sit there and tell me that players have never been in a Tampa 2 coverage from high school to the pro’s. Wether you line up in Tampa 2 for one snap or 50 snaps, it is the same concept. Every coach uses Tampa 2 at some point so im not buying that it’s completely foreign to certain players. Get it done Lovie. You may not be on the hot seat yet but your seat is far from cold right now.
April 19th, 2015 at 5:41 pm
Not giving Raheem the money to spend is what got him fired. No will win with a team of youngry men..
April 19th, 2015 at 6:46 pm
It was Team Glazer who hired the coach before the GM. It was Licht who let loose the OL. It was Lovie who hired the OC that had the unknown heart issue sticking us with an inexperienced guy who was in over his head.
As long as they draft a QB, they will get a couple years. That should also help bringing in FA OL’s because there’s probably going to be some cut as summer hits.
Schiano was not well liked at Rutgers, for obvious reasons, by other NFL people. He made them an annual 7-5 team and people act like they were playing for the conference title every year and they weren’t close. Even he would have struggled last year.
April 19th, 2015 at 7:27 pm
All I want from a coach & GM right now is 3 years of building a good young team that hold its own every game. If the guy who achieved that is t going to win you a Super Bowl, you are the #1 choice of every head coach once you fire that guy
April 20th, 2015 at 2:31 am
Schiano had changed the culture and with one more year, he could have gotten it right. I liked the guy, he just needed more time and needed a GM that was on the same page with him. He downfall was his coordinators. He was too loyal to them. Bob Fraser who had history with him in Rutgers, should have been his DC over the awful Sheridan. The bigger failure was not changing the bad offense by getting rid of Mike Sullivan. He had John McNulty his last year, as QB coach. The guy he originally wanted to be his OC, but was blocked by the Cardinals. McNulty would have had a more explosive offense. He was the right guy. Coordinators make or break a HC.