Herm Edwards: No Surprise Verner Struggled
March 28th, 2015
How nice of former Bucs secondary coach and Chiefs and Jets head coach Herm Edwards to invite Joe to the BSPN studio set at the NFL Owners Meetings this week.
What a gesture.
One thing Joe talked to Edwards about was the rough transition of cornerback Alterraun Verner.
Early in 2014 spring practices, highly-intelligent Verner made it clear that he would have a big learning curve. Verner was used to playing seven yards off a receiver at the line of scrimmage in Tennessee, and then manning up or flying in for run support. Tactics would be much different in Lovie Smith’s old school Tampa-2 defense.
After dealing with the first injury of his career, a hamstring that wiped out nearly all of his training camp and preseason, Verner struggled before improving late in the season.
Edwards said it didn’t surprise him that the young ex-Pro Bowler struggled.
“It’s a lot harder than people will realize. They think when you play Tampa-2 you just sit in the flat. No, it’s more than that. It really is a lot more than that,” Edwards said. “It took Ronde [Barber] a whole year until the playoffs until I started him as a rookie. You don’t just sit in the flat. You got to have great eyes. You’re a part of the run support. You got to understand the concepts of when you’re in that zone how deep you’re supposed to get after you re-route a guy.
“There’s a lot of things that go into this. And guys aren’t used to it because people don’t play it that way. There are a lot of specifics you have to do to make this defense work, especially in the pass game, and in the run game, as a corner. It’s more than just covering your guy. Some guys struggle with that. It’s hard to be great from the Day 1.”
The good news is Verner, 26, is a sharp, dedicated guy who told Joe he would be buried in film during this offseason. Study and familiarity would make him much improved, Verner said.
It sure would be a boon to the Bucs defense if Verner had a bounce-back year. If Johnthan Banks continues to thrive, that would leave the Bucs would two young, strong veteran corners. Few teams can say that have that.
March 28th, 2015 at 1:40 am
so verner gets a what, a “c” for his first year? still not a good free agency last year…
so what did we get for giving up revis?
March 28th, 2015 at 1:40 am
It does seem more complex than just sitting in the flat sometimes. For instance, if the WR your covering is on a go route, at what point do you let him go and stay in the flat? if it’s immediately, then the WR will be wide open because the safety wont have enough time to get there. If you decide to stay with the WR going down the field, then the flat will be open to routes underneath. So it does seem a lot more tricky to master than people think. Hopefully Verner will get it.
March 28th, 2015 at 1:43 am
Time out, I thought everyone has been lauding AV after last season.
So now if were going to be honest, in that he was sub par, where was this intuitive wisdom last offseason when we were told that Lovie sought this guy because of how perfect he fit the system?
I’m getting nauseous with the back n forth talk…
March 28th, 2015 at 2:37 am
I saw him get burned far too many times last season. Hopefully, he does well this season.
March 28th, 2015 at 5:43 am
Too many of us assumed last year that because the Bucs had once been the masters of the Tampa 2 that we’d once again be its master now that Lovie was back. Wrong!
Back in the glory year (hey, we’ve only really had one), every piece of our defense had been drafted and/or crafted to fit the Tampa 2 scheme run by the expert, Monte Kiffin. All of the assistant coaches knew it intimately, as did the players.
We’ve got a ways to go to get back to that level of proficiency. But with some smart drafting and free agent additions, plus some smart coaching and most of all patience, we will get there.
March 28th, 2015 at 7:43 am
@Lurker
I agree it was definitely a waste to give up a 1st and 4th rd pick for Revis and then let him go a year later and get nothing in return. In Lovie’s defense his hands were tied on that because CB’s aren’t worth 16 mil a year in the Tampa-2 scheme and Revis refused to take a pay cut and he and his agent killed the trades offers that Tampa had worked out to get some compensation in return for him.
March 28th, 2015 at 7:48 am
Joe, you went on a BSPN studio set? Isn’t that like a vampire going out into the sunlight? Well I’m just glad you made it out alive!
March 28th, 2015 at 7:51 am
I thought we had heard last year from the media was the lovie ran more man coverage!
March 28th, 2015 at 7:53 am
If it took Ronde a whole season to figure it all out, why did he say this last November, “I watch all their film every week just because I’m selfishly still involved. They can’t play Cover-2. It’s the simplest defense possible”
Herm and Brooks both said it would take time.
Has Ronde already let his media job turn him into a over exaggerating drama queen?
March 28th, 2015 at 8:35 am
@Mike10
Time out, I thought everyone has been lauding AV after last season.
So now if were going to be honest, in that he was sub par
Mike you can dismiss my response here by writing it off as an “excuse” and of course at the end of the day as the man once said you are what your record says you are. I view it as an explanation. But if you view it as a lameass excuse I certainly take your point.
Joe pretty much summed it up…the lauding was for late season improvement and the “sub par” was for an injury/lack of understanding of the defense.
After dealing with the first injury of his career, a hamstring that wiped out nearly all of his training camp and preseason, Verner struggled before improving late in the season.
Any explanation I could offer for any player’s poor performance could be viewed as either an excuse or more charitably as an extenuating circumstance and a reason for hope for 2015. Everybody knows I’m the blog optimist so you know where I come down but there are “reasons/lame excuse” take your pick for more than just Verner.
I’d forgotten about Verner’s hammy and missing preseason.
Sims missed far more than just the preseason and he too finally began to show some promise at the end of the season. He had a bad wheel the very worst injury for somebody with his skill set…speed and cutting.
ASJ also was injured through most of the season and hardly got a training camp.
As for the “learning” excuse it’s clear both to the naked eye and statistically that this defense came on and improved significantly the second half of the season.
We draft Fameis…we only need an LT and a RG to produce a competent if not great OL. The defense will most certainly start the year much better and hopefully Carter can stop TE’s eating our lunch.
It’s all good Buc fans. Now for the Debbie Downers to come in and point out how (insert your own name calling ad hom here).
March 28th, 2015 at 8:51 am
Waterboy Says:
March 28th, 2015 at 7:43 am
@Lurker
In Lovie’s defense his hands were tied on that because CB’s aren’t worth 16 mil a year in the Tampa-2 scheme and Revis refused to take a pay cut and he and his agent killed the trades offers that Tampa had worked out to get some compensation in return for him.
____________________________________________________________
Which tells you why Lovie is no good. He can’t work in an elite, top 10 talent? Your scheme blows if you can’t work in a top 10 player in this league. Revis was better than our entire defense combined last year. Just an amazingly idiotic, totally indefensible move.
As to taking a paycut, would you take one to play for the Raiders or Browns, when you know you can get released and choose your team? Yeah I didn’t think so. Revis did what anyone else would have done. And why take a paycut, ? He’s basically making $16 million a year guaranteed the next 3 years now anyways. Revis is ultimately the big winner though, so good for him playing the system to max out his paydays.
March 28th, 2015 at 9:04 am
Revis is a GREAT player!!! One of the best CB’s of his generation! I don’t think anybody disputes that. He nor any other CB…Sherman..Petersen…are worth 16 million. If Revis was worth it Belicheat would have paid to keep him.
If Revis was incredibly GREEDY he would have stayed in N.E. in an attempt to defend their title and enhance his own rep with a 2nd SB.
Once you earn 16 million…or even half that…over your ENTIRE life…much less one year…you have more than enough dough. You are what is referred to as independently wealthy, meaning your money earns enough money that you don’t even have to touch your principal.
Yes it’s America and everybody is entitled to earn as much as they want. But we all also still human and being a greedy pig is being a greedy pig. If Revis was taking all of his money and donating it to charity or had some altruistic reason for earning FAR MORE than he can ever need I could understand.
Again I do not dispute his right to do so….but am just exercising my own opinion as to what constitutes GREED!
As far as a player wanting to select which team he wishes to play for due to competitive reasons or perhaps personal reasons…I totally support that. But Revis is nothing more than a hired gun…he’d play for Jacksonville if they gave him 16 million 500,000.
I totally respect Revis as a player. I do not hate him as a person. But I certainly have a lack of respect for his “value system”.
March 28th, 2015 at 9:05 am
Oops typo…If Revis WASN’T incredibly greedy.
March 28th, 2015 at 9:05 am
@bucrightoff: As much as I like Revis, it lot was based on timing. With a new coach coming in trying to rebuild quickly, having a 16 million dollar corner doesnt make economic sense for your ball club. I hated to see Revis go but with our pass rusher we could have 6 Darell Revis’ and still not be good. Tony Dungy said it best “Defenses are built from the front to back, not the other way around.
March 28th, 2015 at 9:10 am
He is a player that is going to stay here and be great. Revis will always go to the highest bidder, not that I blame him, it is a business.
March 28th, 2015 at 9:14 am
Why the lack of respect for Revis “value system”? Are you cool with teams showing zero loyalty to players and cutitng them at first convenience? NFL is a vicious business, there is no love or respect involved. Look out for #1. I always like it when players stick it to owners. And I always find it repulsive when fans suggest player should take pay cuts. No they shouldn’t, because if owners and GMs have no intention of honouring contracts, why should players compromise to them?
March 28th, 2015 at 9:29 am
@bucrightoff
No they shouldn’t, because if owners and GMs have no intention of honouring contracts, why should players compromise to them?
That is what is known in debating as a straw man argument. First of all did we honor our contract to Michael Johnson. Was he worth it?
But you’re trying to defend Revis greed by pointing out the owners are even greedier. OK you’ll get no argument from me on that point.
But we are all stupid. We LOVE Stu Sternberg even though that welfare queen tried to scam St. Petersburg out of a half billion dollars to build HIM a stadium.
A billionaire getting welfare so he can pay millionaires absurd salaries.
My point is not that Revis is greedier than the owners.
There are a few great sports owners…Robert Kraft…The Rooneys come to mind and we are blessed in Tampa to have one of the very best in Jeff Vinik.
These are honorable people who do the best they can within the existing system.
There are plenty of great players who earn millions but whom I would not refer to as greedy. They are the ones you see giving the “home town” discount or taking less pay to help with the cap and make their team more competitive.
Revis is simply obscenely greedy and there’s no way to spin it.
March 28th, 2015 at 9:44 am
If you think Mark Barron was not happy with Lovie old passive system. Then Revis would have been grumbling the whole year going 2-14 with Lovie.
March 28th, 2015 at 9:50 am
Revis is like Liam Neeson in that what he does have are a very particular set of skills. Skills He acquired over a very long career. Skills that make hima nightmare for offenses…. revis is best in nfl w peterson probably 2nd as far as a man coverage guy… sherman is a cover 3 corner period… so revis deserves his cash in his short window… i dont understand how lovie cant change his old scheme…. the new hot term is edge rusher… hybrid DE/OL not sure that fits in this sytem as much as the 3-4 that seems to be the new style… im cynical and have no faith in bucs regime happy saturday
March 28th, 2015 at 9:57 am
Dusthty
I respect your opinion because you are honest. “im cynical and have no faith in bucs regime happy saturday”
There’s room for cynicism and optimism. Great Saturday to you as well.
Awesome weather for our race here in St. Pete. If you don’t come to see it make sure you at least watch ABC tomorrow afternoon. The broadcast reveals St. Petersburg to a real jewel on the water. Probably sells a lot of tourism. Makes me proud to watch it.,
March 28th, 2015 at 9:57 am
Verner was as good as Revis was for us…who he replaced. Nearly identical stats. And he stayed healthy. And at one third the price.
I don’t count that as a free agency blunder, regardless of what people try to claim.
It certainly was not a downgrade. At worse, it was a lateral move. And that made it a smart signing.
And considering the number of “F” grades most of the FA class got last year, I’d say he did amazingly well for his first year in the system.
March 28th, 2015 at 10:09 am
I was very much against us allowing Revis to walk. That being said, he may have had a transition to Lovie’s defense and not been as sharp as his Buccaneer Pro Bowl season. Revis was brilliant due to getting paid for a year in Tampa and enjoying some warm weather before going to New England and collecting a Super Bowl ring. Now back to the Jets. Not a bad set of events for Revis.
March 28th, 2015 at 10:30 am
Verner is a solid corner and we have him for 3 more years at a pretty good price. He’s very smart and works hard. Having Verner and Banks and now with the addition of Moore – the Bucs are in pretty good shape with starting corners at this point.
If the DL can get fairly consistent pressure this year – this group of CBs will be just fine IMO. I expect we will see more interceptions this year and more turnovers from the Defense as a whole as players get more and more comfortable in Lovie’s system in year 2.
We still need at least 1 more talented edge rusher and hopefully some kind of an upgrade at FS – but overall, this defense is in position to have a good year based on the progress that was obvious as the season progressed last year.
March 28th, 2015 at 10:33 am
@StPete
the least Bob Kraft could do is spend some money on a new outfit stop wearing the same cheap two tone shirt and collar set ups from Burlington every Sunday. You would think billionaires could afford some class and style
March 28th, 2015 at 10:45 am
@SOEBuc
.
I loathe the New England Patriots and the Boston Red Sox. In part because of their fans, in part because they always seem to be better than our teams. Envy perhaps.
You won’t get me to defend Kraft’s dress. That was a pretty funny take you posted. Belicheat….Mr, Hoodie…is not exactly a fashion plate either. LOL
March 28th, 2015 at 11:16 am
@Stpete
Its probably not envy. Your just a normal guy from the south that doesn’t like New Englanders. Im the same way.
March 28th, 2015 at 7:01 pm
St Pete – Sure that (we’ll call it) rationale will work but its the same thing that’s been said about the defense as a whole. Not to mention, as bad as things started out last year, does it really say that much to call it an improvement?…