Patience Defining Bucs’ Offseason
March 14th, 2015
Forget about the Bucs’ dreadful offensive line play for a moment and focus on numbers.
The Bucs let two major O-line contributors walk out the door this week and haven’t replaced them.
Joe’s talking about Anthony Collins and Oneil Cousins. You remember Cousins, he’s the guy offensive line coach George Warhop called “fabulous” in November. A month later, without being asked, Lovie Smith raved about the practice efforts of Cousins being a model to the entire team. Even Cousins’ harshest critic softened on him by midseason. However, Cousins is a free agent.
Collins made 10 starts and got the boot.
But the Bucs have yet to pounce on an offensive lineman in free agency, despite two men down and the absence of a legitimate left tackle, and a starting crew that didn’t have an average starter last season.
Why not?
Joe is confident the Bucs know they must upgrade their O-line, but the regime is showing excellent patience, usually a sound choice.
The front office is committed to barbecue-yearning, 33-year-old left guard Logan Mankins, and a big percentage of the free agent talent on offensive line was at that position. Unless you’re lucky, like the Raiders were last year, a good left tackle is nearly impossible to find in free agency.
So the Bucs lie in wait while the market shakes out and the second wave of free agency begins. Joe’s not panicking like during early preseason last year, when the Bucs’ O-line was acting like it hated Josh McCown.
There is time. And plenty of solid offensive lineman can be had and developed. You just have to pick the right guys.
The Bucs found a gem in Jeremy Zuttah in the third-round of the 2008 NFL Draft.
The punishing Bucs running game of 2010? Scrap heap pick-ups like rookie guards Derek Hardman and Ted Larsen (now starting for Arizona), and right tackle James Lee, often led the charge.
In 2012, when Doug Martin ran wild? An undrafted nobody named Demar Dotson had won the right tackle job and was solid. Larsen re-appeared at center, and Zuttah shifted left, after Carl Nicks blew out his toe.
Joe’s not telling anyone to be confident in Lovie Smith’s ability to craft an offensive line, but there truly is no reason to panic. Patience is mid-March is often a good thing.
March 14th, 2015 at 11:42 am
no confidence in personnel leaders of bucs… conte? really… OL is the biggest glaring need for past 2 years
March 14th, 2015 at 11:45 am
Lovie & Licht came in last year and told us we shouldn’t be patient…..it’s a good thing I didn’t agree then….I feel better because of it…..patience is a synonym for Tampabaybucsfans
March 14th, 2015 at 11:45 am
Does anyone have a suspicion that Mankins is just waiting this thing out to retire on us before the season starts?
March 14th, 2015 at 11:53 am
I still don’t understand why the Bucs got rid of Zuttah for EDS. Can anyone help me understand?
March 14th, 2015 at 11:53 am
87- I like your posts but I’m starting to think you need a hobby dude. Literally everywhere I look on here is your name. Relax dude my god. And Ya-we’re all thinking mankins is gonna retire…no only somebody who thinks about nothing else thinks that. Geez, got a college basketball team? I’m not happy about what’s going on with both lines but my god. I’m not here every second with a constant negativity stream
March 14th, 2015 at 11:57 am
Contributors? LMFAO!
March 14th, 2015 at 11:58 am
Broy34…my job is mostly done on a computer. Therefore I’m always on my computer. I have a lot of free time on my hands as well. Since I make my own hours.
I can go away for awhile…no problem. How about a month or so?
March 14th, 2015 at 11:58 am
Yep. Patience is necessary to remain a Bucs fan. Almost 40 years of more losing than winning. I am still a fan though so i am either patient, a glutton for punishment or just plain dumb. Probably all of the above. LOL
March 14th, 2015 at 12:02 pm
Broy…It’s only logical if I’m Mankins. Why bother going through that crap again?
Look I’m a realist, I used to be one of the most optimistic fans on this site, if not thee most optimistic fan on this site.
Walking out of that stadium on Sundays with my head hung low in 2013 did a number on me. Perhaps I should have never bought those season tickets.
March 14th, 2015 at 12:03 pm
On a positive note, our OL can’t be much worse than last year because we don’t have McCown who takes a licking and keeps on giving.
The big question is who is the final decision maker on FAs and the draft, Joe do you know?
If it is the GM, we will be OK, if Lovie, we may drop to 1-15.
March 14th, 2015 at 12:05 pm
If the Bucs go QB in round one, those subsequent picks have to be strong proven offensive linemen to protect our draftee and possibly Glennon. How about picks 2, 3 and 4 all on Oline players? Another all offense draft is the ticket to shore up the Bucs worst performing side of the ball. Fix that and Bucs win half their games.
March 14th, 2015 at 12:09 pm
You know what? Us fans have a right yo be angry, negative and fed up with the state of this team. If you received services of any type that you paid good money for and got the crap the Bucs have displayed, you would find a new service provider. The tough part is that true fans do not choose the option of picking a new team do instead we have to deal with negative outlooks. It is on the Bucs to change that….not the fans!
March 14th, 2015 at 12:14 pm
87… nobody wants you to go away. You are Winston’s biggest cheerleader, chairman of the board of Draft Winston Inc., have to give you kudos for your persistence. Like a gnat buzzing around and you just can’t swat it away.
March 14th, 2015 at 12:15 pm
There is still a few decent O-linemen to be had, i am just as worried about our DE’s as our Guard-Tackle tandem. Jacques Smith showed promise, might we have Gholston on one end and Smith on the other????? Not sold on that prospect, anyone else?
March 14th, 2015 at 12:17 pm
87 like I said I like your posts. Don’t want u to go away. However is appreciate it if you changed your name to something more telling. Still can’t tell from your name which QB u want
March 14th, 2015 at 12:22 pm
Broy…it said NOMariota..and I just did change it back about 10 minutes ago.
Now WalkDaPlank…he has MariotaOrWinstonOrWalkDaPlank.
Mine was just NO Mariota.
Oh well the name is changed back anyways seeing how like I said this is a done deal and no need for the name anymore.
March 14th, 2015 at 12:22 pm
lovie is the absolute worst thing to happen to this franchise in quite along time, I do not see any improvement, nor do I expect to see much more than a 4 win season. and trust me on this, if there is a way to screw up the draft, somehow, some way, I am confident he will do it. I too am a realist, and obviously a fan since their franchise inception, and having been a lifer, it is my god giving right to say it like I see it. on a somber note gene gene the dancing machine passed away today, he will be missed. three gongs for lovie!!!!
March 14th, 2015 at 12:23 pm
btw you’re right I do need a hobby….
March 14th, 2015 at 12:25 pm
Changed it to buc1987JameisorPlank. And you working on a computer justifies a lot for sure
March 14th, 2015 at 12:25 pm
And I changed my name to reflect all the people lobbying for Glennon
March 14th, 2015 at 12:34 pm
“on a somber note gene gene the dancing machine passed away today”
Seeing how I was all of like 7 when the Gong show was on and can barely remember it. I was afraid you meant Deckerhoff and I went to google immediately even though I never knew he was much of a dancer….
I was scared when I clicked the search button….
March 14th, 2015 at 12:55 pm
Great read joe!! Thank you
March 14th, 2015 at 1:03 pm
Agree with BucNut. Thanks for some sanity Joe.
March 14th, 2015 at 1:27 pm
87,
You already have a hobby. It’s called the “Tampa Bay Buccaneers”
Seems like a fine hobby to me!
March 14th, 2015 at 1:32 pm
Look signing Hardy, trading for AP or drafting Winston are all PR nightmares. I think you can do 1 of the 3, but not more than that. If you sign Hardy probably means you draft Mariotta. If your drafting Winston I don’t think Hardy is on your radar.
March 14th, 2015 at 1:43 pm
Bad offensive line = Bad offense = worn out tired defense = 2-14…
March 14th, 2015 at 1:43 pm
I can’t imagine that L&L don’t fully comprehend the serious nature of the Bucs OL problems. I’m quite sure they do. The problem is – where are the answers supposed to come from? Quick fixes don’t work. There were VERY few OL players that could be considered “good” in Free Agency. And the couple that are close to that want $7, $8 or $9M per year when their actual and realistic market value to a team is more like $4-$5M.
We are in this mess because Mark Dominik refused to draft for the OLine. Absolutely REFUSED! In 5 years as GM, The DOM drafted one OLineman. ONE! Way back in 2009 – a meaningless 5th round pick who never even saw the field. If that is not the height of irresponsibility as an NFL General manager – then I don’t know what is.
The only way out of this mess is to draft well, draft high and draft often for OLine. This year draft 3 Oline players from among picks 2,3,4,5 and 5. Next year do the same. That is the only legit way to permanently increase the talent and the competition and the level of play of the Bucs terrible OLine without grossly overpaying. And it takes some time because even talented young OL players usually need a couple years to fully develop into NFL starters.
There are no quick fixes here. Winston is just going to have to work with a sub-par line next year which really sucks because you want to give your rookie QB every advantage to succeed early in his career and working with a bad OLine just makes everything so much harder. I believe Winston is capable of succeeding despite the OL problems we are sure to see yet again this year – He showed that this last year when FSU’s line was having serious leakage up the middle until Cam Erving was moved to Center from LT. But its certainly not a good thing to subject him to injury. I cringe at the thought of Winston having to take some of the hits that McCown did last year. He will stand strong in the pocket and deliver strikes even with pressure right in his face – but its the hits that come after the release that take their toll over time if they are too frequent. Jameis is big and strong and durable and he excels at shaking off would be tacklers and breaking contain to buy time – very much like Roethlisberger in that respect. But NFL Defenders are big and fast and nasty and you certainly don’t want them getting free shots to hurt your shiny new franchise QB.
Here’s hoping L&L can find some personel answers for up front this year and spend some high draft picks on OL to help the present and prepare for the future. And we can only hope that Warhop has a career best coaching effort this year to get the most out of whatever he winds up having to work with.
March 14th, 2015 at 1:54 pm
JBF, the problem with patience is that they’re kicking the can down the road. You’re assuming in your story the L&L have the competence to find the right players in a few months. Not only does their recent history suggest otherwise, it also delays the learning process of the new OC’s system. After Winston, the next pick needs to be LT, then guard and DE and hope they get decent starters. Nevertheless, it’s a risky strategy. They should have bagged a Olinemen during this first wave at least for depth.
March 14th, 2015 at 2:25 pm
And say 87forjameis, since your mom makes your meals and caters to all your whims, you really don’t have to move from your keyboard or screen. LOL.
News flash, Zimmerman of the Vikings appears to have blown Michael Johnson out of the Twin Cities. He is now reported to be in Cincy groveling before his ex team.
I guess he didn’t realize his tape was going to follow him around the league.
March 14th, 2015 at 2:30 pm
Perhaps new OC looked at the film and relayed to the front office it was no wonder the offense looked like it was in high school because that was the OC was running at the time.
March 14th, 2015 at 2:38 pm
If nothing else, Sign Hardy and Barksdale, I can live with that. Throw in Wisenewski and I say we will at least be .500 this year.
March 14th, 2015 at 2:44 pm
Pick grin the problem is that, in addition to a RG and left tackle they also need two starting DEs along with a middle linebacker, two safety’s, a slot reciever, a kick returner, a punter, and a QB. Joes is looking through his pewter colored glasses again. BucsNation trashed L&L yesterday for not addressing the o-line and DE issues during the first wave of free agency. There are not enough draft rounds to fix this, and like or not the first wave is when the best FA talent is available. This article is Joes opinion. Many experts are saying the Bucs are failing miserably so far. The majority of the guys that will be available later on will be guys on the cusp of practice squads.
March 14th, 2015 at 3:09 pm
Im impressed. So far we’ve been true to our own players and have built some depth on defense. Were not signing a big name and living and dying by their performance. Now if we can get say Greg Hardy he could be the piece to put it all together. We have alot of work to do still. Our oline is as thin as ever. But hey if we finish 6-10 or 7-9 that would be great progress.
March 14th, 2015 at 4:19 pm
They may be PR nightmares out of the gate but if the come in and help win it won’t matter down the road.
Judging by the polls Joe had here and the one going on over at pewter report show Hardy being wanted by the fan base by an overwhelming amount. I mean it is a landslide vote and I am sure AP would be the same. All that tells me is fans want to win above all else. The off field issues (as long as non-continuos) will slowly be forgotten as long as they help the Bucs win games.
March 14th, 2015 at 4:20 pm
Plus not to mention all 3 are HUGE nationally known names and will actually generate more fans than they lose do to morals.
March 14th, 2015 at 4:29 pm
87, you are one of the only consistent people on this website that complement and root for Winston. I say good things when I can but I’m not consistent really. Do your thing man, and I hope everyone can understand and learn from what you have to say. Anyone that thinks you need to leave probably has no clue what they are talking about anyways.
March 14th, 2015 at 4:41 pm
Probably better than overpaying for a bunch of busts like last year. The key to long term success is building through the draft and signing affordable free agents who can provide depth and fill complimentary roles. We are still paying the price for years of disastrous drafting.
March 14th, 2015 at 6:54 pm
Only problem Uranus is that they have approximately 9 vacancies that need to be filled by true NFL starters, not back ups. With only 7 rounds in the draft, of which the final 3 picks being total crap shoots, we needed to add some starters in FA.
March 14th, 2015 at 6:57 pm
How about not drafting tight end then running back ( deepest position at the time) when online was the biggest need… Signing bears and cowboys cast offs because they played in his system ? Raheem, Schiano, Lovie is looking more and more like the Bennett ,Perkins, Williamson, BAD drafting BAD coacing!! All you newbees that since 1995 WELCOME to BUCS HELL 30 years of SUCK 5 years of bliss…. Thank you Sam for drafting Brooks and Sapp dude never gets Any credit !
March 14th, 2015 at 7:14 pm
Patience is what got us Mankins, and I don’t mean that as a compliment. L&L did nothing for the G position until they were desperate.
March 14th, 2015 at 9:03 pm
Once again, all of you fail to recognize how absolutely horrible are OC was last year and how inept he made the whole unit look.
It’s almost as if a massive 9.0 earthquake hit San Francisco and caused massive damages and your blaming the people who built the buildings for not making them strong enough.
The guy had Division III OC experience for one year and his team finished near last in overall offense.
You guys really need to start thinking a little more deeper.
March 14th, 2015 at 9:34 pm
Lol@ddneast. You’re right the o line talent was great. If we had a better OC cousins would have been a pro bowler.
March 14th, 2015 at 11:02 pm
Bottom line. No pass rush still. We do not have a mean streak on defense. Im sick of it. We will have a good offense if we actually build our line the right way. We have so many needs and plenty of cap space. I hope we can finally just do the right thing for once. I want winston and hardy period.
March 15th, 2015 at 3:02 am
@Bucfan4life I don’t think that was his point. So many fans make the Bucs to be absolutely horrid last year with out understanding any reasons behind it.
No even with coaching they wouldn’t be world movers but coachings has a lot to do with success or failure of units than one would give credit for. Add no real coach to the other circumstances of last year and it’s easy to see why the line failed so horribly. Collins was brought in to be a starter and that was a failed experiment nearly right out of the gate, Then Dotson has to move from RT to LT and thank god he was at least solid. Mankins got brought in at the beginning of the season and was already on the decline side of his talent. Both rookies didn’t make any kind of impact. Just saying with an entire off season together and a true OC under the helm this unit already has improved simply because of continuity which BTW is one of the BIGGEST reason why an o-line can fail or succeed.
March 15th, 2015 at 3:05 am
oh yeah let’s not forget to mention McClown and Glennon hold on to the ball for FOREVER!!!!! a good O-line can keep a QB clean constantly for at least 5- 7 seconds. We needed alot more quick plays and not BIG PLAY AFTER BIG PLAY!
March 15th, 2015 at 9:07 am
keep getting crappy coaches and GM’s
And you get crappy teams. Lovie can only see talent as far as Chicago
Glennon should have got a shot but no lovie had to get a Bears throw away.
Draft draft draft for two or three years and you’ll have a deep decent team.
Winston Marriota or Jesus playing QB isn’t gonna save this team. We have way to many open holes. Trade down take the picks.
March 15th, 2015 at 9:41 am
:excellent patience:
JOE JUST JUMPED THE SHARK. What a pathetic, ass-kissing line.
Done.
March 15th, 2015 at 9:51 am
I know what he meant BucIt but there was a horrible lack of talent. Lovie came in and shipped out lineman and replaced them with lesser talent. Bad players will make a great coach look bad as well. You basically spelled it out in your post. Collins was a complete bust, Mankins is declining and seemed uninterested in being here, Cousins and Omameh just aren’t very good and the two rookies barely played and weren’t very good when they did. No coach looks good with bad players. I just don’t know how successful the Bucs will be if they are hoping to get an impact next season with rookies drafted in the 3rd – 7th rounds. I am hoping for a LT in the 2nd round but they are in desperate need of a DEs so some of these picks will be coming in the later rounds.