Bucs Signal “Clear” Choice
February 12th, 2015
Yes, it is 20 hours after Joe learned of the Bucs cutting ties with turnover-prone quarterback Josh McCown. Joe in some ways still can’t believe it.
No, McCown didn’t deserve to be on the team. He was horrible, no way to sugarcoat it.
However, given his close ties to Lovie Smith and the way he could help groom a rookie quarterback, Joe was all but certain Lovie would return McCown in 2015.
Steven Ruiz of USA Today believes the move proves Lovie is running out of patience (or, perhaps, feeling heat from Team Glazer?) and wants results now, positive results that is.
Ruiz maintains, Lovie has no use for working with a rookie project quarterback. Therefore, Lovie is set to hand the keys to the Bucs offense to Jameis Winston.
The obvious choices are Oregon’s Marcus Mariota and Florida State’s Jameis Winston. With Lovie Smith and general manager Jason Licht in year two of the rebuilding process — after a disappointing first season in charge — the Buccaneers brain trust may not have the time to wait on the development of a project.
If that is the case, the Bucs choice should be clear. Winston spent the last two years operating a pro-style offense, making progression-based reads, taking snaps under center and learning how to anticipate windows opening up. New offensive coordinator Dirk Koetter will require whomever the Bucs take to do all of that and more next season.
Mariota was not asked to do any of that at Oregon. The Ducks offense required simple reads based on where the defensive numbers were weakest or the movement of a single defender in pass coverage. That’s not to say Mariota isn’t capable of adapting to a pro-style system, there’s just no evidence proving he can.
As Joe has stated before, this all adds up. This is all a logical conclusion. It seems like a slam dunk and we all know how much Joe wants this to happen.
That is why Joe is tapping the brakes. Lovie is nothing if not unpredictable. That’s why Joe is scared. All road signs point to Winston now. The thing is, Lovie reads maps in a different way than most.
February 12th, 2015 at 2:28 pm
” Lovie is nothing if not unpredictable.”
Ladies and gentlemen… The mythical triple negative. What does that even mean? He said Glennon is the future and it looks like he is rocking and rolling with him.
February 12th, 2015 at 2:28 pm
“Lovie is nothing if not unpredictable. That’s why Joe is scared.”
Me too! Something just doesn’t feel right, there is a missing piece to this puzzle.
February 12th, 2015 at 2:30 pm
No missing piece and no mystery here at all.
Of the two QB’s on the roster, Glennon is more than capable of being a number 2. He’s also about $5M cheaper next year than McCown would be.
This isn’t a “signal.” This is a blowhorn in your face that we are drafting Jameis Winston, and I couldn’t be happier.
February 12th, 2015 at 2:31 pm
#TeamGlazer not turning their Franchise over to #TheCreepyCrab , Get some sleep, you’re reading too much into this #McCownGone
February 12th, 2015 at 2:33 pm
Joe you forgot alot of turnovers that lovie has constantly and continues to say he wants a qb that wont turn the ball over
February 12th, 2015 at 2:34 pm
I hope we draft Jameis and keep Glennon. Back up QB is huge.
February 12th, 2015 at 2:34 pm
The only signals coming from One Buc are smoke signals.
February 12th, 2015 at 2:38 pm
Why in the world did McCown start the last 4 games when the season was over already ?
February 12th, 2015 at 2:39 pm
At the combine, when asked about him being accused of rape, #TheCreepyCrab will refer to his flash cards for prepared answers. #MoanMeansYes #ItsNotRapeItsSurpriseSex
February 12th, 2015 at 2:39 pm
The only thing it adds up to is Glennon will be our starter. Glennon right now is Better than any rookie we could bring in, odds are he’s already got his nose in some of Dirk Keotters playbook. This tells me regardless of who we draft Glennon will be our starter, maybe Lovie was being truthfull when he said Glennon is our future. I still think we draft Mariota only he will be on the bench learning for a year, and I’m perfectly ok wih that.
February 12th, 2015 at 2:44 pm
I think there are 3 options and all are about equally likely right now: Draft a QB, trade, draft Leonard Williams. You cannot tell me Lovie isn’t going to get hard thinking of what a Williams/GMC combo could do. That’s a potentially devastating interior pass rush, the best Lovie will ever have. Those boys possibly wreaking OLines will immediately improve the secondary by simply giving QBs less time. It’s going to tempt him long and hard. Trade has to be there because the FA class is very weak for QBs so someone might get desperate and come over the top with a huge offer that cannot be turned down.
February 12th, 2015 at 2:47 pm
There no chance lovie drafts Winston, not with his off the feild troubles. Not happening.
February 12th, 2015 at 2:47 pm
Maybe a trade of our #1 pick for Foles and all of the Eagle’s 2015 draft has taken place and we just havent heard about it yet….lol.
February 12th, 2015 at 2:47 pm
It means nothing except to the ones at OBP. THEY are the people that know. to everyone other them it is a guess. Glennon can still be traded and they bring in 2 different qb’s and not draft one. So keep dreaming. The draft is still a long way away and they will NOT tell you what they are going to do!
February 12th, 2015 at 2:51 pm
I don’t see how this move with McCown changes anything with regard to what we know about the Bucs QB plans. I don’t think any reasonable person believed McCown would come back as a starter, even a bridge starter. Knowing what we think we do about Lovie, there’s still a chance that our QB could be a FA, a veteran in a trade, or Glennon.
As for the supposed “logic” that says Lovie would’ve kept Glennon as the starter last year if he liked him in that job, there are arguments for why he may have gone back to McCown. Namely, the lack of an OC and general lack of direction for the offense may have been regarded as too much for a 2nd year QB to carry on his shoulders. Perhaps they thought McCown’s experience gave him an edge over Glennon in these circumstances. I’m not saying it’s true, just that it’s one plausible explanation, given Lovie’s tendency towards caution.
I also think that the rumors floating around are part of a smokescreen coming from OBP. The only reason why a smokescreen is necessary is if they’re interested in investigating trade-down scenarios, which means they’re not yet committed to drafting a QB.
February 12th, 2015 at 2:53 pm
Lovie knows he can win with Glennon and a good offensive line and a great defense, it’s starting to become clear we may be trading down people.
February 12th, 2015 at 2:55 pm
The Florida Gators and their fans are complete trash. No wonder Urban Meyer faked a freaking heart attack to leave your trashy ass program. Bunch of racist ass rednecks.
Hope you Gator fans enjoy another well deserved 5 win season and play in the Western Alabama Not Near National Stage Bowl again in 2015.
Go Bucs!
February 12th, 2015 at 2:59 pm
“The Ducks offense required simple reads based on where the defensive numbers were weakest or the movement of a single defender in pass coverage”
@ Joe, that isn’t true. I’m a Coach myself and their is definitely progression reads in the offense. Now their is definitely run/pass options that are simple 1-read and throw the ball plays… but plays like Snag, Flood, and Bootleg are a staple of the Oregon pass game and that is entirely a progression read set of plays.
I think your selling Mariota short. I agree with Winston as they top QB if we don’t trade out the spot, but to say Mariota doesn’t make progression reads is complete BS.
My take is that just because Winston and Mariota are the highest rated QB’s in 2015, doesn’t mean their franchise QB’s. Both have Red Flags. One on the field and one off the field. Decisions like this can set a franchise back years and to just say were going to take the best QB just because we need a QB and ignore the red flags is a bit reckless.
I know QB is the sexy pick but sometimes you have to realize that even though the gal is a 10… she might just got the herp…
February 12th, 2015 at 3:02 pm
What they wont do is waste another season hoping glennon has learned some new trick to playing quarterback. glennon is what he has always been, he is no Russell Wilson and went in the 3rd round because his upside isn’t very high. draft Winston like we’re gonna do, let Winston beat him out like he obviously will and lets move on from there, someone will get desperate and give up a good high 2016 pick for glennon we don’t really have to have a pick for this year’s draft as long as we get a high pick
February 12th, 2015 at 3:03 pm
Dungy will be the tie breaker….and he has already spoken
February 12th, 2015 at 3:04 pm
Well the unpredictable one has built and taken a team to the Super Bowl.
I’m happy and secure leaving it to him.
February 12th, 2015 at 3:04 pm
@ Sam
Agree 100%
February 12th, 2015 at 3:05 pm
@BucFan20
I know right. Everyone gets mad at each other over this stuff that no one except the people in the franchise know is gonna happen. BUT WERE MERICANS!! we love to argue over meaningless bullsh**
February 12th, 2015 at 3:06 pm
Mr. Joseph
Aren’t these all of the same things that you were saying about Mr. Johnny Football at this same time last year?
February 12th, 2015 at 3:11 pm
How many people are going to keep printing the same drivel….”most pro-ready, making reads, taking snaps under center, blah, blah, blah…”
I guess if you say it enough times it will come true.
But the REAL truth is that Winston regressed significantly in his 2nd full season. He put his team in deep holes virtually every single game last season due to his INABILITY TO READ DEFENSES. Even though he routinely threw out of clean and unhurried pockets, he forced more passes into coverage than any QB in college football.
He threw 18 interceptions. Against defensive powerhouses like Wake Forest, NC State and BC.
When he finally played a defense the likes he might see in the NFL (the Gators, who have several potential 1st rounders) he threw 4 interceptions, completed 50 percent of his passes for 125 yards.
So this absolute myth of Winston being the most pro ready QB will continue to be advanced by the hacks who cover the draft. But the TRUTH is that Winston shows poor mechanics, poor footwork, routinely throws off his back foot (especially in the face of the slightest pressure), forces throws into coverage, and has trouble reading defenses.
If you call that pro-ready… I’ll pass.
February 12th, 2015 at 3:13 pm
Joe see what he saw in Johnny rehab last year, a lot of the the feild baggage and troubles means a lot more drama and a lot more articles to write about…. Right JOE? Drama sells. But so does winning that’s why Mariota is our future
February 12th, 2015 at 3:18 pm
Define project for me…Joe just climb back aboard the MGM crowd now. Step on the gas. Floor it. Pedal to the metal with the Cannon now! The “Doc” is saying: Let’s roll with MG8!! Back. To. The. Future. We. Go.
February 12th, 2015 at 3:18 pm
This is all part of the draft game. They want the rest of the league to know they want a Qb, but not which one. In so doing they can either get a team to trade the house to move up to get one, OR to get a team like the Raiders to trade up to ensure they get the defensive guy they covet rather than the other teams before them.
If the Raiders trade with them then the Bucs will still get one of the two QB’s they want plus more picks. That is the best case scenario. Remember the second and third picks in the draft could go Defensive Line- and the thought of that could be enough for the Raiders to make a move.
Now, if you can fleece the Browns, which is entirely possible seeing as they are run by complete morons, then perhaps they do that. If you get both their first rounders this year, plus the second and third, plus the first next year?
Something to think about. Though I’m not sure we should pass up a chance to get either of these guys…though Jameis just makes me worry about off field stuff.
February 12th, 2015 at 3:19 pm
@traew01
So we’ll go ahead and assume you think you know more about reading defenses and watching film than guys like Trent Dilfer who actually played the game and the position. truth is if you didn’t even play quarterback on the playground or in high school you don’t know as much as you think you do….for now I think i’ll go with the guys who got paid to play quarterback
February 12th, 2015 at 3:23 pm
Seriously…Steven Ruiz of USA Today?
…and this obvious insider has studied Lovie so much he can now tell from what…his press conferences? That Lovie has JUST become frustrated? Wow, I wonder what he was for AN ENTIRE SEASON WHEN WE DIDN’T HAVE AN OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR!?
Full disclosure: I stopped reading after “…Steven Ruiz of the USA Today…” I honestly don’t ever read the USA Today, ever. Why would I care what their never-was sports writer has to say about what he thinks is going on in the mind of head coach he doesn’t even know?
February 12th, 2015 at 3:27 pm
Eric Says:
Well the unpredictable one has built and taken a team to the Super Bowl.
I’m happy and secure leaving it to him.
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So no mention of Jerry Angelo?
He was the one that hired Lovie and built the roster for him.
February 12th, 2015 at 3:30 pm
I just heard that the Bucs invited Leonard Williams in for a private workout
February 12th, 2015 at 3:33 pm
ANYONE who thinks the Bucs would tip their hand this early one way or the other is an Idiot
February 12th, 2015 at 3:33 pm
Winston “being more Pro ready” =’s Global Warming
February 12th, 2015 at 3:33 pm
White Tiger Says:
Full disclosure: I stopped reading after “…Steven Ruiz of the USA Today…” I honestly don’t ever read the USA Today, ever. Why would I care what their never-was sports writer has to say about what he thinks is going on in the mind of head coach he doesn’t even know?
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Meh, the scribes are paid to write. So they do.
In fairness, he did mention Licht too. Problem is that the Glazer’s have both a doormat franchise and the checkbook.
BirdDogger said it earlier. It’s all smoke signals at this time of year.
February 12th, 2015 at 3:33 pm
Please name me ANY Rookie QB that was not a project???….waiting….you cant (even Peyton M had growing pains)….even Luck passed at 54% and had 16INT as a rookie and you/NFL “experts” always reference him like he is a draft icon.
To Say Mariota is a project and Winston is not…is plain stupid. Neither of them are NFL ready. They are BOTH projects.
I am betting it will be Mariota. Why? Joe has yet to be right on anything related to the QB position on the bucs…(see all site history). Joe maybe your better suited with Lovie on the Defensive side of the ball. Love ya keep up the off season drivel.
February 12th, 2015 at 3:39 pm
usa today???
now your just trolling. we all know it and chime in, but c’mon man.
new material please. maybe some insight into these guys backgrounds, where they grew up. a history piece so we can get a better understanding.
maybe thats a lot to ask.
February 12th, 2015 at 3:43 pm
BK Says:
Please name me ANY Rookie QB that was not a project???….waiting….you cant (even Peyton M had growing pains)….even Luck passed at 54% and had 16INT as a rookie and you/NFL “experts” always reference him like he is a draft icon.
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Fair point but Luck did make the playoffs as a rookie. Not shabby.
February 12th, 2015 at 3:50 pm
The Colts were in much better shape when he showed up as a rookie than the Bucs will be. The Colts tank year really was a tank year aimmed at drafting Luck. The Bucs record really was the best they could do. Whomever QB’s the Bucs next year is in for trouble.
February 12th, 2015 at 3:52 pm
Let’s take Russell Wilson as an example of ‘project’…He was 3 years into NC St’s spread offense, then moved onto WIS’s pro style offense for 1 year. Not enough raw data to sample if you are an NFL scout filtering only pro style data. He fell thru the cracks, and was lost in translation in that 2012 draft. And the rest is history in SEA. His teammate and good friend, MG8..it’s his Turn now.
February 12th, 2015 at 3:54 pm
There is nothing CLEAR, except McCown was released.
Read all you want into the release, but no NFL team wants there intension known before FA and the draft.
But for those with crystal balls keep rubbing them and see the truth of transparency, it’s just a reflection of there own image thoughts.
February 12th, 2015 at 3:57 pm
JoeJoes Fungi Nails Says:
February 12th, 2015 at 3:33 pm
Winston “being more Pro ready” =’s Global Warming
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Both are true
February 12th, 2015 at 3:57 pm
Don’t want to give Lovie credit for the super bowl, because he had a GM.
But he gets the blame for last year, when he had a GM.
He will make an outstanding first round draft selection, just like last year.
Once they look into the background they will discover Jameis is a great leader, and teammate, and person, just as Brooks and many others who actually know him have said.
On the field it isn’t even close.
I expect Mr. Smith and Mr. Winston to win championships together.
Go Bucs.
February 12th, 2015 at 3:58 pm
Pro days, interviews, more interviews, more background checks, more interviews, more film, more poking around who their friends are or aren’t, more more, more interviews, Gruden camp (my favorite breakdown on a qb) and more research. My preference is the more athletic more mobile QB in 2014, but clear choice comments just comes off as so uninformed of the actual process before the draft.
February 12th, 2015 at 4:01 pm
Luther Says:
February 12th, 2015 at 3:57 pm
JoeJoes Fungi Nails Says:
February 12th, 2015 at 3:33 pm
Winston “being more Pro ready” =’s Global Warming
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Both are true
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both are agenda driven supported by twisted stats….
February 12th, 2015 at 4:01 pm
Josh sure made a lot more classier remarks after his departure then were made about him on here.
February 12th, 2015 at 4:02 pm
“Pat Says:
February 12th, 2015 at 3:52 pm
Let’s take Russell Wilson as an example of ‘project’…He was 3 years into NC St’s spread offense”
Dana Bible was the OC when he was there. He runs pro-style. Dave Doernan runs a spread.That was after Wilson.
http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/tag/_/name/dana-bible
“The draw at NC State? Tom O’Brien and Dana Bible, two coaches who run a pro-style scheme that best suits what Thomas can do. “
February 12th, 2015 at 4:02 pm
Because 99% of the experts in their field agree that they are true??
February 12th, 2015 at 4:06 pm
Aah yes, Lovie’s strategy is finally clear.
1 – Draft a QB (Winston or Mariota) and sit him on the bench.
2 – Start Glennon and play him while the (once again) new OL gels.
3 – After Glennon’s been summarily beaten up and after the OL gets its’ act together, transition to the rookie QB.
February 12th, 2015 at 4:07 pm
To Say Mariota is a project and Winston is not…is plain stupid. Neither of them are NFL ready. They are BOTH projects.
DING! DING! DING! We have a winner and it’s BK.
Luck is a generational QB so no need to bring him into the conversation about these two players. One or both of them may develop into a QB as good as Luck.
But Jameis did have major ON FIELD issues last year and regressed greatly. And Fameis apologists stop with the he had no receivers. He had the all time leading FSU receiver in Greene projected to go in the second round of the NFL draft and their greatest Tight end in O’Leary projected to go in the third.
In all Fameis got to play with four teammates projected to go in the first round…3 in the second…that’s SEVEN teammates projected in the first two rounds!!! FSU actually underperformed this year and Fameis sophomore slump was a big reason!!!
His long baseball windup will have NFL DB’s licking their chops. Who needs to follow his squinting eyes when he takes so long to deliver the rock!
February 12th, 2015 at 4:10 pm
@buc4lyfe
If you want to rely on Trent Dilfer as an expert on reading NFL defenses…well, then you must be a pretty young Bucs fan.
My throat is still sore from screaming “Dilfer!?!?!?!?!” after another one of his bone head throws. And what, now he is an expert??
You don’t have to have played in the NFL to see a QB throw 18 interceptions, force passes, throw routinely off his back foot, have a long windup that DBs feast on, and make poor reads. It is not rocket science.
I personally dont think these draft guys do much homework. I really dont. I think Dilfer watches a little tape and then heads for the golf course to work on his scratch golf game (he was a great golfer, lousy QB).
I’ll stick with NFL GMs. Les Bowen, a well respected NFL beat writer in Philadelphia, said the other day that he has yet to speak to a single NFL team source that would pick Winston over Mariota. Not a single one.
February 12th, 2015 at 4:11 pm
@Dick2111
You left out possibility #4. MG8 plays like he did out in Seattle or up in Pittsburgh with a very talented OC running the show. They patch up the OL and use lots of 3 step drops with quick releases.
Our division sucks. Glennon wins ten and we’re one and done. THEN we trade Glennon and start Marcus Mariota. Glennon would have major value!!!
Glennon can win with the right OC and an even average OL. We have the OC time to rebuild the OL to at least average.
February 12th, 2015 at 4:12 pm
Joe has become the little boy who must get his way. Of course, as he himself admits, he is not a journalist, he is a businessman and opinion-giver. Because so many fans favor Mariota and quite a few find the prospect of Winston repulsive, it’s good for business to put out this daily dribble glorifying Winston. There is a case, a strong case to be made against Winston, but Joe treats it as trivial, when it is not. Most of the football experts who have endorsed Winston, have also said the thought of drafting him scares them to death and likely would keep any GM up at night.
February 12th, 2015 at 4:15 pm
I am tried of people thinking that Glennon is a good QB. He is barely better than McCown. We should draft Winston (preferably) or Mariota. This team needs a Franchise QB. We have are chance right before us! Even if we draft Williams, the defense is still 4 pieces away from being above good. We still need CBs all we have is Verner and Banks and that’s not saying much. We have to get a MLB. We also need safeties. I think this team is alot closer to having a better offense than a better defense.
February 12th, 2015 at 4:20 pm
JoeJoes Fungi Nails Says:
February 12th, 2015 at 3:33 pm
Winston “being more Pro ready” =’s Global Warming
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Both are true
I assume the world is still flat in your world.
February 12th, 2015 at 4:20 pm
I want Winston to be drafted but having said that people know too much about nothing and try to hard to connect dots just to have something to write about. Only thing to me that is clear about this move it that mccown cost too much to play that bad and if we’re gonna have a stop gap quarterback it might as well be someone who’s going to cost significantly less than whatever quarterback we draft
February 12th, 2015 at 4:22 pm
Stpetebucsfan
Thats excatly what in think you have hit everypoint on the dot . Excatly what i said a brady like system quick trowns rub routes quick feet quick release just like mariota
February 12th, 2015 at 4:23 pm
I am tried of people thinking that Glennon is a good QB.
@C-Spann And I’m just as tired of people claiming he sucks. Look at his numbers compared to other NFL QB’s in their rookie and 2nd years. He compares more than favorably on two teams that sucked and suffered from HORRIBLE offensive play calling and scheming!!!
He may not be a “franchise” QB but he’s also not chopped liver. His numbers on a HORRIBLE TEAM bear that out. Just because he looks tall and goofy doesn’t make him a horrible QB!
Why did Sean Payton and Dirk Koetter give Glennon compliments. Are you tired of our current OC already?
February 12th, 2015 at 4:25 pm
BTW, tend to think you’re premature in anointing Winston as our next QB Joe (as opposed to Mariota).
Winston has played in a total of 27 games for the Seminoles. In those games he averaged 66.0% passing, threw 65 TDs (2.4 TD/game) and 28 INTs (1.0 INT/game). He also rushed for 7 TDs and 286 yds total (10.6 yds/game and 2 yds/carry average).
Mariota has played in a total of 41 games for the Ducks. In those games he averaged 66.8% passing, threw 105 TDs (2.6 TD/game) and 14 INTs (.34 INT/game). He also rushed for 29 TDs and 2,237 yds total (54.6 yds/game and 6.6 yds/carry average).
Both won the Heisman trophy, and both led their team to the National Championship game.
Personally I don’t see a clear-cut winner there at this point. They’re both excellent QB prospects, and I think it’ll depend on which one the Bucs’ braintrust feels will fits their team the best. I seriously doubt they’ve made up their minds just yet.
February 12th, 2015 at 4:28 pm
I don’t feel like posting the stats again, but for all you you that want to swing from Luck’s strap so hard, just compare his first 2 years of playing college ball to Jameis’ 2 years.
Then you can come back and speak on how immensely “different” they are.
February 12th, 2015 at 4:29 pm
there are plenty of quarterbacks on bad teams like…..josh mccown lol
why is Derek carr already talked about as a franchise qb on a bad team that had as bad as a record as we did, blake bortles franchise qb, even johnny football still has the support of his coaching staff. glennon has no upside and everyone think he’s good but that’s not saying anything. back up quarterbacks are good which is what glennon is
February 12th, 2015 at 4:31 pm
Did he put any names behind those sources or was it that Anonymous guy?
February 12th, 2015 at 4:32 pm
I think bucs have worked themselves into a position of power this offseason….there are no free agents in this free agent class which is why josh mccown is already getting calls. for our sake I hope glennon beats out whoever we draft just so his stock rises so we can trade him midseason but he wont be traded now that mccown has been cut because who will we bring in to back him up and he’s the only qb we have on the roster
February 12th, 2015 at 4:32 pm
We may not know anything until FA period is over…..and even then….things can change with trades etc…..
All this is is wishful thinking…..
February 12th, 2015 at 4:34 pm
Eric Says:
February 12th, 2015 at 3:04 pm
Well the unpredictable one has built and taken a team to the Super Bowl.
I’m happy and secure leaving it to him.
_________________________________________________________________
You mean he did that with a roster of players he mostly inherited, and once he started having say in personnel they missed the playoffs 6 of 7 years? Sucker born every minute I guess
February 12th, 2015 at 4:35 pm
@Dick
All excellent points and I basically agree with your conclusion. There is no clear cut winner at this point, I’m not sure though that the Bucs haven’t made up their minds.
And if people want to look for “tells” Dick just posted a glaring one!!!
We all agree that Lovie is such a defensive coach we fear he won’t even draft a rookie QB. We all agree that Lovie’s formula, play Dungy ball, requires a QB who will NOT turn the ball over. And so look at Dick’s stats to see if there is anything there that will influence Lovie.
Experience goes to Mariota…41 games to Fameis 27..an extra season of experience.
But here is the real tell if you’re Lovie looking at it…
Fameis…28 INTs (1.0 INT/game).
Marcus…14 INTs (.34 INT/game).
Defensive minded coaches HATE QB’s that turn the ball over!!!
Fameis threw twice as many picks as Mariota in 14 FEWER games.
Which QB reads defenses better? Which QB has better judgment?
February 12th, 2015 at 4:36 pm
There’s “SMOKE” everywhere right now. These guys are not going to give away their strategy at this point!!!!
February 12th, 2015 at 4:37 pm
“I am tried of people thinking that Glennon is a good QB.’
It has been IMPOSSIBLE to make that determination playing behind the offensive line the past 2 years….I’d be the first one to call for his head if indeed he was the weak link in an otherwise strong offense.
February 12th, 2015 at 4:42 pm
JoeJoes Fungi Nails Says:
February 12th, 2015 at 4:37 pm
“I am tried of people thinking that Glennon is a good QB.’
It has been IMPOSSIBLE to make that determination playing behind the offensive line the past 2 years….I’d be the first one to call for his head if indeed he was the weak link in an otherwise strong offense.
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that’s delusional thinking!!!why is it bucs made that determination, why is it he didn’t play, why is it on a team with no qb has he never started, why is it he looked exactly the same in year 1 and 2? last question if anyone in the league thought this guy was a starting quarterback why haven’t they given up atleast a 3rd or 2nd round for him? Texans, Cleveland, the rams all come to mind but no one has stepped up to pay the price hmmmm. HE SUCKS
February 12th, 2015 at 4:44 pm
@Stpete
Don’t you think you should include 23 Mariota fumbles in 31 career starts? Wouldn’t a defensive minded coach hate that as well?
Those are turnovers too. And you have no idea how he will pass if he isn’t a running threat.
February 12th, 2015 at 4:51 pm
L$WD
Certainly take your point about fumbles. Of course that comes from running it.
As far as how he will pass without the fear of running it….uh that’s a bit like asking how Russell Wilson would pass without the threat of running it. He can run it!!! That’s an advantage not a negative.
“why is it he didn’t play, why is it on a team with no qb has he never started,”
Uh buc4lyte. I’m getting older and so perhaps my memory is shot…that and too much weed eh. LOL But I thought MG8 beat out our “franchise QB” in 2013 to earn the starting position after three games.
As for why he didn’t play…duh..look at his coaches. Neither of them is exactly renown for knowing squat about offense. And last year he had a 32 year old joke as OC calling the plays.
February 12th, 2015 at 4:52 pm
Gil Brandt just tweeted out that Bucs are today shopping Mike Glennon for a 3rd round pick but so far have no takers
So much for the conspiracy theories
February 12th, 2015 at 4:56 pm
@StPeteBucsFan
Bottom line to me is that they’ve BOTH got some upside, but also lots that they need work on. They’re BOTH projects from my perspective. Winston simply isn’t ready to be a starting NFL QB after 27 college games. Neither is Mariota after 41 games. Both of them will need lots of work before assuming the reins of an NFL team. And I’m not talking about 4 preseason games … they BOTH need to sit and learn.
February 12th, 2015 at 4:56 pm
BTW I don’t believe even the most ardent Mariota supporter believes he will run anywhere near as much as he did in college. In addition he will use his smarts and athleticism just like Russell Wilson. He’ll learn how to slide or get out of bounds but the fact that he IS a threat and his uncanny mobility in the pocket…he can feel defensive heat and still look downfield…will put pressure on defenses.
Pete Carroll made the right decision with the wrong call in the SB. A fake to Marshawn Lynch on the dive…the play EVERYBODY expected…would have freed Wilson, perhaps the best running QB (Kaepernik probably still better) in the NFL to roll right and probably waltz into the end zone…if not they could have had a TE open in the back of the end zone…if not either Wilson throws it away and with their timeout they STILL could have gone into beast mode twice if needed.
Mariota brings that to the Bucs. A running QB like Wilson/Kaepernik/Rodgers who is smart and crafty can freeze Lb’s and DB’s and leave them in no man’s land.
February 12th, 2015 at 5:03 pm
Just now ESPN Nfl Insiders show just said Glennon is the perfect bridge quarterback for……… Wait for it… Mariota! Yup things are so CLEAR. LOL
February 12th, 2015 at 5:03 pm
Why does everyone assume that Mariota is “much like Russell Wilson”? For all we know, he could be much like Dennis Dixon or RG3. I certainly thought Dixon should have won the Heisman if he had not gotten injured.
Draft Winston and enjoy the ride.
February 12th, 2015 at 5:04 pm
@Dick
I agree. That’s why I think we will keep MG although Mr Patrick just released a Gil Brandt tweet that would argue otherwise.
TBBF continually and correctly in my opinion points out that until the FA period is over we don’t know who will be the “other” QB if we take Mariota or Winston.
Perhaps I’m prejudiced because we’ve already had a #5 who was a head case QB. I think Fameis has serious issues. I’m not talking about the rape allegations. I mean his judgement in general. When you toss that many picks it suggests that you believe your God given talent can overcome not just a tight window but one that is ready to slam shut. And that was in college!!!
It’s easy to get credit for throwing into “tight windows” when you don’t care if you are intercepted.
Some people wish to compare Jameis recklessness to Brett Favre and I get that. But it took Favre quite awhile to grow up and learn when discretion is the better part of valor. This is another point that backs up your assertion that Fameis or Marcus will BOTH need to be developed. Favre was not an immediate star.
February 12th, 2015 at 5:07 pm
I think this is a signal that we are perfectly comfortable going into the season with whoever wins the battle between MG8 & our #1 draft pick (or FA signing). I think it could also be a sign that our front office has more faith in Mariota’s ability to play immediately than the stupid national (& local) media types do.
P.S. The Winstonites apparently want another Josh Freeman… Personally, I’d rather have the guy who’s a superior athlete and MAN.
February 12th, 2015 at 5:08 pm
Why does everyone assume that Mariota is “much like Russell Wilson”? For all we know, he could be much like Dennis Dixon or RG3.
Because Luther he is much smarter and far more talented than either Dixon or RG3. RG3 was also nowhere nearly as coachable as Mariota and RGIII is reckless. Mariota will listen to coaches and learn to play like Wilson,
February 12th, 2015 at 5:08 pm
Glennon’s not bad but he’s nothing special either…After the combine and his pro-day, Winston will be to clear choice…
February 12th, 2015 at 5:09 pm
Erik
P.S. The Winstonites apparently want another Josh Freeman…
Well you have to admit Josh did leave the #5 available for Fameis.
February 12th, 2015 at 5:09 pm
@ St. Pete
Remember when Lovie said that he wanted an offense that was a cross between Seattle’s and San Francisco’s? That’s what somebody will put Mariota in
February 12th, 2015 at 5:10 pm
After the combine and his pro-day, Winston will be to clear choice…
With all due respect Cody…if YOU a mere blogger know this why do we even need a pro day or combine?
February 12th, 2015 at 5:10 pm
StPeteBucsFan
glennon didn’t beat out anyone in 2013 and we watched him in disgust in game 4 of the preseason against scrubs. schiano gave it too him and had a Sandusky type affection for him that was sickening! ok that was going to far but all the love he got from schiano was based on what? the fact that he recruited him out of college but I know glennon is smart because he was smart enough not to go to rugters. truth is glennon has done nothing for tampa and freeman did more in one year under schiano than glennon has done in 2 seasons. glennon is just barely over $4000 and before you keep talking about how bad the online is, freeman ran for more yards than glennon threw.
lovie was smart to keep glennon out this season because he knows how bad he sucks….how many times can you run out of bounce before the first down even though you still have plenty of running room
February 12th, 2015 at 5:11 pm
Gil tweeted this, ESPN said that,Joe said this and PR said that. Pat said this. When the BUCS say it I will believe it!
February 12th, 2015 at 5:12 pm
So after releasing McCown yesterday, and shopping Glennon today, what does that tell everybody?
February 12th, 2015 at 5:12 pm
Good point Mr. Patrick. And if that’s the way they intend to go then perhaps the Gil Brandt tweet makes sense. Although I cannot imagine the Bucs having to struggle getting their 3rd pick back. Glennon’s no world beater but again his numbers and compliments from QB gurus like Payton and our own Koetter indicate that Glennon has some talent. Even a good backup would be worth a 3rd rounder at minimum if he’s already proven.
February 12th, 2015 at 5:13 pm
Luther (& the imaginary idiotic Joe)… Winston may be more pro-ready on Day 1, but I wouldn’t put it past Mariota to be better in a pro-style offense than Winston by Week 1 of the regular season. Every single physical skill that Winston possesses, Mariota has more of it. Except for maybe a 97mph fastball.
February 12th, 2015 at 5:14 pm
@bucfan
Gil tweeted this, ESPN said that,Joe said this and PR said that. Pat said this. When the BUCS say it I will believe it!
Cmon now bucfan!! Now your just posting sense! What fun is it though if we can’t speculate and pull opinions out of our backsides. LMAO
February 12th, 2015 at 5:14 pm
bucrightoff
Sucker here. So you’re saying Lovie took Dick Jauron’s team to the Super Bowl? Too F’n funny! How does a 7-9 team, one inherits, make it too the Super Bowl without a decent head coach?
February 12th, 2015 at 5:15 pm
@StPeteBucsFan
I dont think Glennon is capable of getting this team to the next level. I guess he would be ok if the defense was able to complement the lack of offense but its not. He may also be a victim of the bad playcalling from the OC. I just think he has reached his ceiling.
February 12th, 2015 at 5:17 pm
@buc4lyfe
but all the love he got from schiano was based on what?
I’ll concede that toes on the line probably loved MG8’s work ethic and what he saw in practice. Compared to the head case MG8 was probably a breath of fresh air.
OK I took a stab at your question now your turn.
Sean Peyton and our new OC Dirk Koetter both coached against the Bucs and saw Glennon close up and on the video twice a year. Both are noted QB experts and both were complimentary of Glennon. Based on what?
February 12th, 2015 at 5:20 pm
StPeteBucsFan Says:
February 12th, 2015 at 5:10 pm
After the combine and his pro-day, Winston will be to clear choice…
The only reason there’s a debate here is because there are just so many people who refuse to accept it….only person I’ve heard lately picking mariotta is mark Dominick and who the hell would listen to that guy, the media has to be nice to him because he’s one of them but we know what garbage he was……what’s his record as a gm, maybe when someone invites him to talk about the bucs they should lead off by spitting out how many games he won as a gm…Winston is the pick and a pro day isn’t needed to see that, mariotta is the one who desperately needs a pro day
February 12th, 2015 at 5:21 pm
C-spann
I dont think Glennon is capable of getting this team to the next level.
I think we agree. I think his limitations would clearly show up in the playoffs.
Again though in our crapola division I CAN see him winning ten and getting us to the playoffs for a one and done.
That’s why I’m for drafting Mariota. He could easily have a year to watch MG8.
We’re not ready for the “next level” yet anyway. Too many holes.
MG8 plays unless Mariota so clearly beats him out we can’t keep him on the bench ala Russell Wilson and Matt Flynn who was brought in to be the starter not Wilson.
February 12th, 2015 at 5:24 pm
Hey Joe!!
I bet the Big Poodle is crying in his beer with McClown on his way out of town!! I cannot believe the reports he will have no trouble finding a team to pay him to play that poorly!
Mariota has a real big plus side in comparison to the Rapist McWinston as he will not be paid to sit on the NFL’s exempt list when caught raping another woman….the fact that they covered it up does not make him innocent or someone wanted in this community no matter how well he can throw the ball. Yea…he got a 4.0 at FSU, but that was in woman abusing! No way the Crab Boy did any studying on his own…too much entitlement…to much giving him everything he wants without consequences.
I really hope it is Mariota because no matter what happens, he will only get better! He will be better on day 2…better on game 10, and better for the next 10 years to come! No one can say that about Winston…because you have no idea when he will be arrested.
I know Jose will be unhappy with any QB but the rapist….but Bryce Petty for Baylor is going to make a team a great QB also. No matter which pick is made….Joe said it correctly…if that QB is not coached up and supported…he will have no chance at success.
Lovie ain’t gonna survive another stinker like that 2-14 mess from 2014 and if anyone tells me he was this close one more time…I am gonna scream! I sat at Ray Jay with my son watching him intentionally lose that last game against the Saints. He ain’t no winner…and he ain’t no coach. You could not make Chip Kelly lose a game on purpose if you paid him…although I should not use Chip Kelly’s name in the same sentence with Lovie Smith. A whole world of difference in coaches!
Greg Schiano
February 12th, 2015 at 5:24 pm
@ 4life
Beleive me, after throwing all of those interceptions this year and imploding in the Rose Bowl, Winston definetly needs a pro day
February 12th, 2015 at 5:25 pm
If this is Gil’s twitter, I don’t see it. Did it get deleted?
https://twitter.com/Gil_Brandt
February 12th, 2015 at 5:26 pm
bucs4lyfe
The only reason there’s a debate here is because there are just so many people who refuse to accept it…
Are you serious? How many FSU partisans like 87 do you suppose post here?
This is Florida! What do you think the blogs look like in Portland. Just like it’s all Fameis here I suspect it’s all Marcus there.
There are PLENTY of folks besides Dominik and Dungy who believe in Mariota.
Dungy has seen lots of Mariota, Dominik has already been burnt by one head case wearing #5…and how about say…Jim Mora. He’s coached twice against Mariota and he raves about him.
The truly objective posters here have given both players their due and also highlighted the weaknesses of each.
Again the success rate of 1st round draft picks is 54% and Heisman QB’s have been cursed. This is not to say that neither will be good NFL QB’s. Perhaps both will be great and they will meet in the SB one day. One thing is certain…and that is neither are CERTAIN.
February 12th, 2015 at 5:28 pm
OAR Says:
February 12th, 2015 at 5:14 pm
bucrightoff
Sucker here. So you’re saying Lovie took Dick Jauron’s team to the Super Bowl? Too F’n funny! How does a 7-9 team, one inherits, make it too the Super Bowl without a decent head coach?
_______________________________________________________________
Because the NFC was very down that year. Jeff Garcia was a play away from taking the Eagles to the NFC title game. Very weak NFC that year
And what decent head coach has an 8 year stretch of making the playoffs only once? Sounds like a mediocre to poor coach. But hey if that’s what people want, a bunch of 6-10 to 10-6 seasons with a playoff berth squeezed in every 8 years, I guess I can’t do anything about people have rock bottom expectations. It’s amazing that one Super Bowl appearance has literally whitewashed an entire career that is clearly mediocre at best. Check out his record against .500 or better teams. Appalling to say the least.
February 12th, 2015 at 5:30 pm
It amazes me that anyone would look at the film of both players and proclaim that they are close or even say that Mariota is better. If Lovie doesn’t draft Winston then I would predict that he will be fired after the season. I wouldn’t say Mariota will be a bust but he certainly is no where close to Winston. Combine and Pro days won’t change what’s on film.
February 12th, 2015 at 5:32 pm
Patrick…..that was Glennons brother Tweeting the Bucs were looking for a 3rd….
😉
February 12th, 2015 at 5:33 pm
IMO there is a notable difference between a project and a rookie. No rookie QB, and I mean none, has come into the league with nothing left to improve on. They all need work.
The difference between an NFL ready rookie and a project is that the rookie appears ready to take the field, a project doesn’t. A project will need at least a year to develop before playing is even an option, much less the best option.
Why is MM considered a project then? He’s taken 5 snaps from under center (in 3 years) and has a questionable amount of success when the Oregon game pace breaks down. A team should not plan on starting a QB without knowing how he performs from under center. If you commit your 1st team training camp time to teaching your starting QB basic fundamentals, then you’re at a relative disadvantage. If you commit that time and he doesn’t pick it up, you’re totally screwed.
Training camp time is very valuable, and backup QB’s don’t get much attention. Winston is field ready…. MM might be, but nobody actually knows that yet. That’s why one is called NFL-ready, and the other a project.
February 12th, 2015 at 5:33 pm
If anyone has any independent verification of Gil Brandt tweeting about offering Glennon for trade, feel free to post. It’s not on his twitter.
February 12th, 2015 at 5:35 pm
I hate to break it to the Winstonites, but anyone that doesn’t believe BOTH quarterbacks will be projects is fooling themself.
Contrary to the common claims, Winston is NOT pro ready. Just because he is a pocket passer, that doresn’t mean he is. The guy has faults. Different faults thamn Mariota, but still faults.
And, I would hazard to say that mobile QBs are more common in the NFL than they use to be. So they are carving their own niche. The spread offense is used more too. And the fast-paced, short to intermediate passing game.
So saying Mariota is not NFL ready is true, but its also true for every player, Winston included. Otherwise all draft picks supposedly pro ready would need no development time.
So Winston is a project as well.
February 12th, 2015 at 5:36 pm
My thoughts:
1. I don’t think this means anything as to which QB we would be taking. It could mean we go Mariota and have Glennon as the bridge if he isn’t ready week 1. It could mean we are counting on Winston to compete with Glennon and give us an improved starter next year.
2. If Mike Glennon is our starting QB next year I think Lovie owes the fans an explanation. I’m not sure he could make a logical one. How can you say “Josh McCown gives us the best chance to win” all the way up till week 17 ; and then tell the fans they should expect improved QB play with Mike Glennon (the guy he benched for McCown) as the starter in 2015? Are you F***ing kidding me? The only way he can make that argument is to say ” i was wrong guys. i am an idiot” If this happens he should get slammed by local press imo.
3. I just flat out disagree with St Pete and some of these other guys when it comes to their QB evaluation. Not sure what you guys have been watching. Go watch Winston’s 1st start against Pitt in 2013. He was ready THEN to be an NFL starting QB. He was going through his reads insanely fast and lasering balls on the money all over the field. It was rediculous. I watched that game and thought that he would be immensely beter than Josh Freeman or any other Buc QB if he could just leave school as a freshman and start the next Buc game lol.
I’m obviously on the Winston bandwagon but would be completely fine with Mariota.
I’m not fine with Mike Glennon at all. The only thing MG supportes have to hang their hats on is his dandy TD-INT ratio. Woopady doo man.
The guy is a game manager. A game manager with under 60% completion. A game manager who only throws for 6.2 Yards per attempt. A guy who needed 416 passes to amass 2600 yards (for reference; Russel Wilson has averaged around 400 passes a year in Seattle for 3300+ passing yards). A guy who got a lot of his yardage by being bailed out by Vjax on underthrown deep balls. A guy whose wins came against the bottom feeders of the NFL. A guy who led the worst 2nd half offense in the NFL in 2013; and was far from clutch in the 4th quarter.
Seriously when has Mike Glennon won games for Tampa? When we won it was because the defense played out of their minds and we could run the ball. I never left the games thinking “man thank god for that amazing stretch of play by Mike Glennon”
February 12th, 2015 at 5:41 pm
Its obviously the right call by the Bucs and Glennon is a good number two behind Jameis Winston.
Hopefully the cap space will allow the Bucs to get some OL help in free agency so we don’t get Jameis killed
February 12th, 2015 at 5:43 pm
@StPeteBucsFan
I ok with drafting Mariota, because he is better than Glennon by a large margin. But, I think his stats are misleading. I believe his success is the product of the system he ran in OU. He is not that great when it has to be on his shoulder to get the offense going. We saw that in the championship game. Ohio St.’s game plan was to make him beat them and he couldn’t. Winston on the other hand is more than capable of doing that. He has the best QBR in the second half than any other QB in college. JW is the best QB to come out since Luck. All the off field stuff is way overblown. JW as able to play through all that crap at a high level. The guy is money.
February 12th, 2015 at 5:46 pm
Lord C.
I’m not fine with Mike Glennon at all. The only thing MG supportes have to hang their hats on is his dandy TD-INT ratio. Woopady doo man.
I’m not fine with MG8 as a franchise QB. Again his weaknesses would show up in the playoffs. But he is not as bad as you guys make him out to be!
Hyperbole aside there is room for middle ground you know. That’s what Joe thinks he’s claiming by acknowledging MG8 is good enough to be a backup. He’s probably saying the same thing as me. A competent player but not a star and he would get exposed in the playoffs or really big divisional showdowns.
As to what MGMers(I’m not a member btw) can hang their hats on they would start with the compliments from Sean Payton, a noted QB guru who is in our division and has seen plenty of Glennon as well as our own OC Koetter who also coached in our division and has seen plenty of Glennon.
Now I realize that neither Payton nor Koetter comment here but aside from that lack of qualification why do you suppose to OFFENSIVE coaches had kind words for Glennon?
February 12th, 2015 at 5:50 pm
@Bonzai,
I don’t think I can express my opinion of rookie vs project any better than I just did.
I will say Winston is a mobile QB. He’s not a speedster like MM or others, but he’s certainly not a statue either. I’m sure you’ve seen his highlight runs, they guy can run quite well when needed.
Yes, the spread offense is used more then it used to be. FSU has spread formations as well. I think the point here is that MM’s skill set will be used by any team who picks him, the question is how well will he execute the other things we haven’t seen him do (and will inevitably have to)? Winston has tape for everything he could possibly be asked to do.
February 12th, 2015 at 5:51 pm
C-Spann
We saw that in the championship game.
No we did not. He was playing without THREE of his top receivers. In the first half when the game was up for grabs he hit two of the less experienced receivers, sadly I think one of them was a local kid, right in the freaking hands in one case and in the numbers in the other case. BOTH of those passes would have resulted in CRITICAL first downs and kept the chains moving.
Meanwhile Oregon never really got a running game going while Ohio State ran wild. Was Mariota supposed to play both ways and go out their and tackle Elliott the games MVP.
Now let’s look at Fameis performance against the Ducks. He totally melted down, yelled at his coach. lost his composure so severely that his coach had to threaten to take him out of the game!
Having said all of that I don’t think you can judge any player on one game.
But if you MUST…Fameis gets the short end of that stick!!!
February 12th, 2015 at 5:57 pm
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2354867-why-major-concerns-with-marcus-mariotas-game-are-mostly-fiction?is_shared=true?is_shared=true
February 12th, 2015 at 5:59 pm
@ St Pete
I wasn’t saying Glennon sucks as much as there is no upside with the dude. And honeslty you can go pull positive quotes about every QB that’s ever been on a roster if you wanted to. It’s not like these coaches are trash talking Qbs much lol. It really doesn’t mean much to me.
All I know is Glennon got a full season of starts and not once did he win a game for us in my opinion. He lost some. But the only games we won were complete team efforts.
At least Josh Freeman showed us potential early on when he beat a good team in the Packers and played clutch in the 4th quarter and OT. At least he really did put up some big #s in stretches of games; at points giving us a top 5 or 10 offense. He made some wow plays and was able to carry a weak team to victory at times and had a lot of game winning drives. I didn’t see any of that with Glennon in 16 games.
I would be ecstatic if we could get a 3rd rounder for him; and draft WInston or Mariota #1; and sign some vet QB for cheap.
February 12th, 2015 at 5:59 pm
@StPete,
How can you point to a handful of Duck “drops” against the Buckeyes while ignoring a handful of Seminole “fumbles” against the Ducks?
You seem to be suggesting that dropped passes are more detrimental than lost fumbles. That’s crazy.
That total meltdown lasted 30 seconds. Clearly, you’ve never seen someone actually have a meltdown, lol.
February 12th, 2015 at 6:03 pm
“All the off field stuff is way overblown.”
And that’s where we really disagree. It’s not overblown at all and those of you who keep apologizing for his boorish behavior do him no favors. He got to be the self entitled arrogant jerk because since his earliest days his athletic prowess has given him a free pass.
First of all he is innocent until proven guilty! I do not agree with Greg Schiano or anybody who calls him a rapist or a thug. But you can’t simply say his stupidity is overblown.
Again even if it wasn’t rape…he’s never been pronounced innocent…he never went to trial…so he has NOT been cleared. He skated in the eyes of many women’s groups because they believe the Tallahassee police fumbled the entire investigation. I believe they not only did the girl a disservice but they also harmed Jameis rep because of their horrid investigative work.
But leave those charges aside. While he was never “cleared” we owe it to him as we do all Americans to presume his innocence.
The crab legs? Ok normally the Tallahasse Publix employees were complicit in his and other FSU athletes STEALING from the store. I get that this happens at every Major college football town from Gainesville to Tusculoosa and so I’m not picking on FSU. But I seriously doubt it’s Publix policy to give away free food. But we could look past that.
The BB gun deal…again if it was isolated no big deal.
The screaming of the obscenity is something I truly struggle with because of the context. He did this while the rape allegations were swirling. Most people are smart enough to lay low when the heat is on.
He simply has incredibly poor judgement! That transfers on the field to all those interceptions. It transfers to the field when he’s yelling at his coach, when he melts down so severely against the Ducks that his coach has to threaten to pull him from the game to calm him down, when he shows up for a game where he was suspended in uniform and has to be sent back to the locker room.
It’s like a never ending saga with Fameis. I do not dislike him personally. He’s probably been getting preferential treatment since early in high school.
It’s no wonder he thinks his sht doesn’t stink.
February 12th, 2015 at 6:08 pm
If the main factor in your opinion to draft Winston is that he is more familiar with a pro offense and not because he has a higher ceiling or intelligence level, I’m glad you aren’t the teams GM. Sure everyone wants to win more games, as many games as possible next season. However, if I think Mariota will be a better QB 2…3 years down the road, regardless of year one I am taking the QB with the most potential. I am betting we either take Mariota, Leanard Williams or Trade down with a team who has another young QB. I don’t want Winston. As a fan I will accept whatever the team does as long as it has nothing to do with Jay Cutler…
February 12th, 2015 at 6:11 pm
StPeteBucsFan
I dont think JW had a meltdown. I think if it had not been for Cooks 2 fumbles and the drop pass by green before halftime and also the ball off the hands of the WR that ended up being a pick. FSU may have had a better chance. JW was playing well before all of that. You have to look at the tape man! We are not going to run the OU offense here! MM has to many questions marks to his game as it pertains to the pro style of offense. JW is far and a way better in so many aspects of the game than MM. MM is a good athlete but I don’t see his skill set translating to the NFL. The tape dont lie!
February 12th, 2015 at 6:11 pm
“First of all he is innocent until proven guilty!”
followed with,
“Again even if it wasn’t rape…he’s never been pronounced innocent…he never went to trial…so he has NOT been cleared.”
I’m totally confused how the same person can say both of these things.
February 12th, 2015 at 6:12 pm
@Bill
The fumbles hurt FSU for sure just as the dropped passes hurt the Ducks.
I’ve always been one who claims that at the end of the day football is still a team sport.
Fameis got to play with FOUR teammates projected to go in the first round of the NFL draft. THREE in the second round and an excellent TE projected to go in the 3rd. Seven teammates projected in the first two rounds.
Mariota played with ONE first round projection..the Ducks DT and ZERO in the second round.
Again I would maintain that the Noles seriously underperformed their talent level largely because of Fameis first half picks and the need to come back.
All that talent and they could have easily lost at least three games because of the INT’s not the defense.
February 12th, 2015 at 6:16 pm
I bet that the next QB at OU will have the same type of year MM had and FSU will have go back to mediocrity!
February 12th, 2015 at 6:16 pm
JBF click rate with Jameis stories reminds me of NASDAQ 1999
February 12th, 2015 at 6:16 pm
Bill
People like Joe and perhaps you have been saying Fameis has been cleared.
That’s simply not true! He was never charged because of lack of evidence.
SOME people believe that’s because Tallahassee officials were in the FSU bag.
You can debate that point. But the ONLY way to be declared innocent is to have a trial!!!
Are you with me so far?
Now it’s time to recognize that in America innocence is presumed…not proven…until proven guilty.
Still with me?
“The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.”
F. Scott Fitzgerald
February 12th, 2015 at 6:18 pm
C-Spann
I would take that bet in a New York minute!!! I have a great deal of respect for Jimbo Fisher and his recruiting ability.
Do you know how many FIVE star recruits he landed. In my pantheon of great recruiters I place Jimbo on the Mt Rushmore with Nick Saban and Urban Meyer.
Those guys ALWAYS get great athletes.
February 12th, 2015 at 6:28 pm
bucrightoff
Dan Reeves, Chuck Knoll, and Marv Levy all went “1 playoff over 8 games” at one point in their careers. Dick Vermil and some others went 7 games with one playoff. I guess they aren’t decent head coaches either?
February 12th, 2015 at 7:04 pm
Jameis has made some bone headed mistakes, I will be the first to agree, but give the kid a break, Jesus. Why does everyone hate the kid so much and slander the ***t out of him? Outside of the allegations of rape (which I wont get into because that all they were, allegations), the stuff he has done is so stupid and was made a waaaaay bigger deal than any of it needed to be. Accepting free food, drinking soda at a Burger King, cussing… I mean come on now.
Anyway, we are talking about drafting a football player here, and from a football standpoint, he is everything you want. He is dedicated, smart and a fantastic athlete… and he excels at all 3 of those things.
If you honestly think that Jameis is going to come to the NFL and get suspended for anything, I think you are wrong. He wont get suspended for cussing in the NFL. He has no drug problems and has never been in trouble for anything “thuggish”.
February 12th, 2015 at 7:14 pm
Just saying that if you look at the majority of NFL suspensions (if not all of them besides on the field acts), they are drug, alcohol and violence related. Jameis has never had an issue with any of those things. Why all of a sudden would he start having those issues in the NFL?
February 12th, 2015 at 7:30 pm
@ St Pete
Jameis being cleared in a trial would really change your opinion? Legally; the fact that they don’t even have enough evidence to charge him; should be more substantial than being charged and then found innocent. If it went to trial and he were found innocent it wouldn’t change anything about the facts, evidence, and people’s opinions. I just think that’s an odd argument.
I also think you’re making too big a deal about his NFL cast and what draft pick they end up being. FSU’s defense was one of the worst in the nation. Their O-line severely underperformed and there was no run game until late in the season. Greene & O Leary are great reliable pass catchers but that’s about all he was working with most of the season. He had to be the entire offense pretty much for a lot of FSU’s games; and somehow he kept winning and adapting in the 2nd half as needed.
@ the not the kevin guy or whatever –
The only argument for Mariota having a higher upside is his speed. Winston isn’t slow though.
Winston’s upside is pretty much limitless based on the level of play he has shown at times. Basically Peyton Manning like reading of a defense combined with Ben Roeth improvisatoinal ability / aaron rodgers type mobility. Not saying that he is that; but he has shown traits of those QBs at times (purely on the field purely on the field)
February 12th, 2015 at 7:30 pm
Calm down….relax…..we didn’t send any message by cutting McCown except we don’t want him on the roster…..Perhaps we were just being courteous to him because Free Agency begins shortly and we are giving teams time to evaluate & consider him earlier.
As for that sending a signal…….what signal would it send if Mike Vick were picked up in FA?…….or TJ Yates (Koetter’s backup QB)
Mark Sanchez?……who the hell knows.
What if we don’t select a FA? Does that mean Glennon will start & we are leaning toward trading the pick?
Like I said…..relax….everything right now is totally up in the air.
The Bucs may be “leaning” in a direction….but it is very doubtful they are making moves now based on their leanings…..
February 12th, 2015 at 8:03 pm
“Why does everyone hate the kid so much and slander the ***t out of him?”
slan·der
ˈslandər/
“make false and damaging statements about (someone).”
Who has made false statements about him. Certainly not me. You apologists simply do NOT get it. Again I decry those who call him rapist or thug. Those people are in a distinct minority here.
I do not hate him. You also use that verb incorrectly.
But to attempt to answer your question. People dislike him because he’s been a self important arrogant jerk…the very worst kind of “jock” one can be. He gives athletes everywhere a bad rap because of his boorish behavior.
It’s the PATTERN of REPEATED jerk moves that offend people and scare folks when it come to the draft.
It’s OK to like a conceited jerk, but stop trying to make it like he is anything else. It’s his BEHAVIOR that has brought all of this about. It’s not people’s opinions..it’s not slander…it is what it is. We’re simply repeating FACTS!!!
I get that many people simply want to win and don’t care if their team is loaded with jerks. Can you say Raider fan? Buc fans apparently aren’t as forgiving. But make NO mistake. NOBODY has slandered Jameis aside from the very few who insist on calling him rapist. The rest is simply FACT!!!
February 12th, 2015 at 8:31 pm
StPeteBucsFan Says:
“You also use that verb incorrectly.”
Really, you are the kind of guy that looks for grammar errors on peoples posts?? I typing this on a freakin Iphone at work, get real. You had a few errors in spelling on your post above, but this isnt english class this is a sports blog. If anyone here is a “jerk” it’s you, douche.
Also, since when has Jameis ever been labeled a jerk? Every story I read about anyone who actually knows the kid loves him and says he is a very nice genuine person. And notice I said knows him, because people like you who have never actually met the kid will make stuff up all day, form opinions and try to pass them off as truth.
February 12th, 2015 at 8:39 pm
I really cannot wait until the draft has come and gone and Bucs fans everywhere can rejoice that there will be no more talk of Winston throughout Tampa or 3-4 posts a day on this site about him either. It just seems soooo far away.
Anyone remember when Joe was lobbying for Manziel to be drafted. Funny…..not many people screening to trade for him and reunite with Mike Evans….WONDER WHY???!!!!!!
Winston is a head case. We don’t need that. We have had enough crap around here over the years. Time to draft someone that will take this team in a positive direction.
Draft Mariota….
February 12th, 2015 at 8:40 pm
Also, if you arent participating in the slander, then I wasn’t talking to you, why are you defending yourself? I read countless posts all day calling him a rapist and a thug among multiple other things that just aren’t true.
February 12th, 2015 at 8:43 pm
For the record, I have no problem drafting Mariota if that’s who the Bucs pick. But Jameis is a great player and I would prefer him based on what I’ve seen on the field. The constant blind Jameis bashing in just stupid though.
February 12th, 2015 at 8:52 pm
@ADown
I totally agree that picking on someone’s grammar or spelling on a blog where people are typing in a hurry and as you point out sometimes on tiny keyboards is taking a really cheap shot.
But I wasn’t picking on your grammar or typing. I was picking on your apologist post. Instead of saying Jameis is a young man who has made MANY youthful mistakes you wish to wipe them away by calling people pointing out his mistakes as slander.
Again it’s people like you in his life, since he’s been a high school star, that make him exhibit this conceited arrogant behavior. He’s never been held accountable. This is true for all athletes and celebrities. Some can handle it! Can you say Marcus Mariota…or perhaps you love FSU..can you say Warrick Dunn or Derrick Brooks? Some can not. Can you say Fameis Jameis or Justin Bieber?
There is a saying in a pretty famous book that goes…”To those who are given a lot a lot is expected.” Jameis has been dealt the winning lotto number. He’s been given more than 99.9% of the rest of us. And how has he handled it?
But sorry if you feel I attacked you personally. That was not my intention. My intention is to simply get the Jameis apologists to stop being co dependent and enabling his boorish behavior. Some here honestly post that they want a good football player and not a choirboy. OK that’s a valid point of view. Trying to continually minimize Jameis REPEATED bad behavior is simply incorrect. Worse is trying to defend it by making fun of those who dare point out the FACTS.
We’ll simply have to agree to disagree on those who have slandered him. Today I’ve read Greg Schiano slander him with rapist or thug..can’t remember anybody else. But in threads with over 100 posts..2 posters represent a tiny fraction.
February 12th, 2015 at 9:06 pm
I don’t feel im being an apologist, I feel I’m being a realist. I stole Pokemon cards when I was a kid, and skipped school, and smoked cigarettes before I was of legal age, does that make me a bad person, I hope not. People make childish and immature mistakes, it happens. Most people just don’t have them publicized as Jameis does. I’m sure you and everyone else on this board have done repeated immature acts, does that make us jerks? No, we live, we learn and we grow up. Jameis isn’t a party animal and he isn’t violent, that goes a long way by NFL standards…
February 12th, 2015 at 9:17 pm
http://espn.go.com/espn/fp/flashPollResultsState?sportIndex=nfl&pollId=4702384
Mariota even wins Floroda, lol
February 12th, 2015 at 9:22 pm
Years not games…duh
February 12th, 2015 at 9:37 pm
@STPETEBUCSFAN- agree 100% also. its about time somebody says it like it is! because you have these Winston lovers on here they act like this kid is the second coming or something like FSU won all them games cuz of bozo#5 well its a team game. period! and this pro ready crap yes he played in a offense teams run in the NFL! but that does not by any means make him ready to come in and start winning games. he still will need to learn a lot this is the NFL. pro ready! MY ARS!!!!
February 12th, 2015 at 10:01 pm
Winston = JaMarcus Russell 2.0. Fsu fans need to get off Winston ‘ sack. 620 sports page with Tom Jones is all over this guy. If you commit the first overall pick to this guy and he gets in off field trouble what’s next? You don’t gamble the first pick with someone like that unless you want to lose your job. In the end I believe the Glazers make the right decision and pick up Mariota. Four vertical offense no huddle with Jackson, Evans, Asj, and a free agent slot receiver and a mobile quarterback, i.e Mariota will make the bucs a hard team to defend. With a running game the bucs will be a handful and the other teams will be gassed by halftime. Just imagine?
February 12th, 2015 at 10:07 pm
@Adown
We probably mostly agree. But here is where we part perhaps.
Most people just don’t have them publicized as Jameis does.
While your statement is absolutely true it doesn’t make the point I believe you are striving to make. In fact that’s why people who are afraid of drafting him have that fear. He will ALWAYS be under a microscope.
In another life I once enjoyed a small level of fame in a much smaller sense than Jameis. Because I was on TV in a tiny town all the people instantly recognized me. I realized that I had to behave differently. But I surely wouldn’t whine about it. I felt incredibly lucky.
I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks…father a 7th grade dropout..drunken wife beating whore mongering bookie. My mom a 10th grade dropout. And yet I realize that I have been truly blessed in life. I haven’t given back nearly as much as I’ve been given. I’m about 90 days from retirement. My entire focus is shifting now to how I might start repaying just a little bit.
Jameis faces challenges of publicity that we can only imagine. I get that. I also get that he is still young…but he just turned 21. And again as that book says…to those who are given a lot, a lot is expected. Jameis is a role model for tens of thousands of young kids…soon to be hundreds of thousands when he turns pro. DB55 and Warrick Dunn accepted this responsibility and made me so very proud to be a Bucs fan and certainly gave bragging rights to FSU for producing two young men who realized their blessings as well as their obligations.
I’m just saying the reason people dislike Jameis…some of you prefer hate..I simply find his behavior off putting…is because when someone is given so much it’s disgusting to watch them act as if they’re special because of these gifts.
But hey he is a young man..and so I honestly hope he can find himself and grow up. And certainly there can be no better mentor than Derrick Brooks.
Did DB55 spend his time like Sapp. No he formed the Brooks bunch. Did WD gripe up his childhood challenges? No he built homes for moms who needed some help. This is what some of us wish to see in our football stars. If that makes us wimps or pollyannas I plead guilty.
February 12th, 2015 at 10:11 pm
He’s never been held accountable?!?!?!?!?!? Please tell me you are kidding
He was suspended for the remainder of the baseball season for walking out of Publix with $30 worth of crab legs and was suspended for FSU football’s biggest conference game of the season against Clemson for uttering a naughty uh oh word. On what planet is that NOT being held accountable?!?!?!?
This is why are you classified as a HATER in my book
February 12th, 2015 at 10:22 pm
Creamsickle
You are the very definition of the apologists to whom I was referring!!!!
was suspended for FSU football’s biggest conference game of the season against Clemson for uttering a naughty uh oh word..
And how did he handle that? From any number of news reports..the FACTS
“Jameis Winston, who is suspended for tonight’s game against Clemson due to a “continuing investigation,” tried to dress anyway—engaging in warmups in full uniform. Florida State head coach Jimbo Fisher had to send Winston back to the locker room to so the Heisman Trophy winner could remove his uniform.”
Saint Jameis really gets it doesn’t he. Feels free to yell out his coach and ignore his suspension!!!
And then you post this drivel…
for uttering a naughty uh oh word.
He did this while he and by proxy the entire FSU football program were under the cloud of rape charges. Does that show any consideration for FSU alums, teammates, fellow students.
Some of you will never get it will you. Again there are many ways you can suggest we should draft Jameis and I would listen. When you post like morons defending idiotic and tasteless behavior that embarrasses the University that gave him so much so badly that he needs to be suspended and then ignores it and comes out on the field forcing his coach to send him back to the locker….Jeebus….What part of these FACTS do you deny? What makes anybody who is disgusted by childish self indulgent behavior a hater for pointing out these facts.
February 12th, 2015 at 10:28 pm
This debate regarding the rape allegations……and even some of the other Winston actions is really beating a very dead horse…..
Yes he has been held accountable…..his behavior will probably haunt him the rest of his life….he will likely lose millions in endorsements.
Whether he drops down draft boards will depend on what happens between now and the draft……he will likely be the 1st or 2nd pick.
He is very talented….perhaps troubled or simply immature….he may be the best prospect….but the best prospect isn’t always the first chosen.
The Bucs may pass on him….let’s just hope they don’t pass on both QB prospects.
February 12th, 2015 at 10:31 pm
BTW For the Saint Jameis lovers I should have said the cloud of rape “allegations”. He was never charged.
And finally before I let it go. I think calling him a rapist is absolutely wrong.
Calling him a thug smacks of racist overtones.
Calling him a self indulgent spoiled child is simply accurately describing his behavior. It’s the kind of BEHAVIOR that turns off a lot of folks.
But hey I also get that many wish to look over that because they wish to win above all else. That at least is an honest argument. But stop apologizing for his behavior and acting like it never happened or is no big deal. In aggregate it’s a very big deal that indicates his upbringing must have failed him.
February 12th, 2015 at 10:33 pm
@StPete,
I follow you completely. “First of all he is innocent until proven guilty!”
This statement allows for two states of being, innocent or proven guilty. Which one is Jameis Winston?
I do appreciate that it’s the PATTERN which is so disturbing.
Freshmen year: Rape accusation, BB gun incident, soda incident
Sophomore year: Crab leg incident
Junior year: Twitter incident
One should acknowledge that the pattern is one of incidents which are diminishing in number and severity.
February 12th, 2015 at 10:39 pm
“In aggregate it’s a very big deal that indicates his upbringing must have failed him.”
or that your holier-than-thou attitude has made much ado about nothing. way to judge him and his parents. and i suppose you aren’t christian.
February 12th, 2015 at 10:54 pm
@StPeteBucFan
HERES how he actually handled it:
You know who criticizes Jameis for dressing out that game? HATERS. Well, HATERS and people who never put on a uniform and played the game. Because anyone that has ever played the game knows that when you show up and your uniform is in your locker you dress out. You go out on the field with your teammates even if you’re not playing.
The only people who deserve criticism for Jameis dressing out that game ore the coaches who saw him getting ready and said nothing and the equipment staff who put his uniform in his locker before the game.
February 12th, 2015 at 11:08 pm
@SPBF
Also man, you can’t go from saying “he was never held accountable” to “he was held accountable but he didn’t handle it correctly.”
Can we at least agree that you were wrong that he was never held accountable?
February 13th, 2015 at 12:31 am
For all of you can’t sleep at night of we draft jameis people, really quick what was the date the last time he did anything remotely close to breaking the law?
February 13th, 2015 at 12:58 am
Everyone needs to read Abuc40’s post from above. And STFU about Winston being a smart pick at #1. Why take the risk?? Who gambles with their job like that? Mariota might need to prove himself in a couple areas on the field still (so does Jameis), but he is a way more secure investment as a person. And he seems to have the mental acuity and drive to be a complete QB.
February 13th, 2015 at 1:10 am
This guy is buying me a Winston jersey! ^^^^
February 13th, 2015 at 2:31 am
StPete.
You come across as very smart. Your posts are well thought out and well written. You appear to be a very wise and grounded person with a high moral background. I give you props. You have made your point. Time and time again.
So heres my question. What is driving you? Why the tension? Why the aggression? Its not just that you disagree with the thought of picking Winston. But, your trying your best to make anyone who supports him feel like they are morally bankrupt for their stance. I mean bro, its every day now you are trying to dominate the page with the same arguments over and over again. Ease up. Nobody is changing their minds, we are dug in deep on this one. You asked somebody to give a new argument tonight, I challenge you to do the same.
February 13th, 2015 at 9:17 am
Eric Says:
February 12th, 2015 at 3:04 pm
Well the unpredictable one has built and taken a team to the Super Bowl.
I’m happy and secure leaving it to him.
Jerry Angelo built the Chicago team that went to the Super Bowl, when given the reins, Lovie made Devin Hester his #1 WR, trade for Jay Cutlter and signed Sam Hurd…big difference.
February 13th, 2015 at 9:26 am
Well spoken Gobucs in reference to these hatin ass gator fans. Well spoken.
February 13th, 2015 at 9:28 am
And even without Jamies FSU gone continue tearing yall gator trash asses to pieces, guaranteed.
February 13th, 2015 at 9:32 am
@Creamsickle
Also man, you can’t go from saying “he was never held accountable” to “he was held accountable but he didn’t handle it correctly.”
Can we at least agree that you were wrong that he was never held accountable?
Yes! We can agree on that. I made an overstatement that should have read, he has never received more than a slap on the wrist.
@SOS
Agree completely with your post and so I’ll drop any Jameis posts from here on out. Part of this is being egged on by Joe but I can’t say I blame him. Look at the thread counts on the Jameis threads versus all the others.
But I agree that I have made my point and appreciate your patience up till now.
You are correct SOS
Part of what has driven me is my own Irish love of debate. But this topic has been thrashed to death and I’m not sure how Joe can milk it much longer.
Apologies to any I’ve offended and I hope FSU folks understand it’s not about your school. I”ve tried to balance this out by pointing out two of the classiest, top character athletes of all time DB55 and WD are FSU grads.
At the end of the day I think it boils down to this. Would you rather cheer for Vincent Jackson or Mike Williams or MEshawn Johnson? GMac or Greg Hardy?
Ronde Barber or Aquib Talib? Legarrette Blount or Mike Alstott? Jameis Winston or Marcus Mariota?
Everybody has their own set of answers to those questions. Viva la differance.
February 13th, 2015 at 10:14 am
C-span number2 recruiting class in the nation (FSU) 4star recruit coming in at QB. Trust me homie we’ll remain along way from mediocrity . And I hope you a lizard so you can continue watching us pound the shit out yall ass.
February 13th, 2015 at 10:31 am
I hear you mikeh,funny thing is I dont recall any mention of marita when I first started visiting this site last season. Its a bit of headscratcher to me considering so many gator lizards whatever they are on this page. FSU homers as you all like to refer us as,we fell in love with WINSton play the minute we saw him go 22/25 two labor days ago. We had no idea our fav nfl team would be in line to possibly one day snatch him in the draft. Now that that is reality were suppose to be in favor of some frail running qb from way on the other side of the country. When his television appearances were few and far in between. Really?
February 13th, 2015 at 10:34 am
Simple answer. If they are Bucs, I cheer for them. Even the worst of the worst. You know if it came down to it, if we were down by 6 in the 4th and Talib got a pick six to win the game and put us in the playoffs, everybody would be on his jock. Even though he was one of the worst offenders Tampa ever had.
I say celebrate the player, not the man. You could literally go through every high profile career there is on this planet and there are turds scattered in with the true heroes great people. Judicial system, politics, the school board, the local hardware store. Thats just the nature of things.
Believe me, if we all find out one day that Winston did rape that girl, I will supply the pitchforks. But, in the mean time…. Go Bucs and anybody that can get us back on track.
StPete
You are my favorite poster on these here boards. I wouldnt want to debate you on many things. Lol. You have a hard heard, and thats a compliment in my family. I just think we have a stalemate here and maybe everybody should just calm down. Theres still a lot of time before things start to really get sloppy.
February 13th, 2015 at 10:57 am
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February 13th, 2015 at 1:01 pm
Celly could you indeed put up those first two season Andrew Luck numbers at standford in coparison to WINSton two year numbers at FSU. Im scratching my head as to how Luck is mentioned on this site as if he is the god of the QB position mean while the two individuals two year numbers are relatively equal. “He’s no Andrew Luck”. But the damn numbers are basicly the same. I wonder what the post would look like it were Luck/marita coming out this draft?
February 13th, 2015 at 11:29 pm
12 INTs vs. 28 INTs, yep basically the same. I would have like to see Winston in school another year and see which real was the real Winston 2013 or 2014. There is a difference.
February 14th, 2015 at 12:25 am
How bout you watch the professional version in the Bay next season and asses the 2015 numbers for yourself.
February 14th, 2015 at 1:07 am
And what about the stat that carries the most weight at the end of the day. I noticed you conviently left out that one. 26 and 1 homie. 26 and 1…