Jameis Watch: NFL-ready
January 3rd, 2015
A former national champion and NFL QB weighs in.
Crab-legs-stealing, BB-gun-shooting, obscenity-hollering, Heisman-Trophy-winning, former national champion James Winston, the pride of Florida State University, continues to look like a much better quarterback prospect than Mike Glennon and Josh McCown.
It’s Joe’s daily nugget on the Jameis Watch, celebrating the best quarterback to wear No. 5 ever in the state of Florida.
Add former Alabama and New York Jets quarterback Greg McElroy to the list of Jameis Winston believers. Yesterday, McElroy — star of the SEC Network of all things — went all on in an ACC quarterback, who like McElroy himself won an NCAA championship.
Yes, that would be Florida State’s Jameis Winston. McElroy, appearing with the one and only Chris “Mad Dog” Russo on the station that bears his name, “Mad Dog Radio,” part of the family of sports channels heard exclusively on SiriusXM Radio, had a passionate defense of Winston and believes at this very moment, Winston can take over and lead an NFL offense.
“I would probably take [Jameis] Winston over [Marcus] Mariota just because I believe his game translates so much easier,” McElroy said. “You don’t really have to devise a system for Jameis. He can come in and run what you have already run. The only thing I have talked about is what concerns me about Jameis Winston is the off-the-field immaturity, his decision-making.
“Really, when you look at it, he is Ben Roethlisberger. Strong in the pocket. He can extend plays. He is outstanding from a decision-standpoint most of the time. And I know he has thrown a ton of interceptions this year but if you look back at who he was a year ago, he was very, very, very careful with the football. This year, it felt like he needed to make more plays. He was pressing at times and as a result resulted in a lot of negative plays.
“From an upside-standpoint, I have a hard time finding anyone in the nation more prepared to go into the NFL than Jameis Winston.”
McElroy described Mariota as a double of Robert Griffin III.
Who is Joe to argue with a man of McElroy’s resume?
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:06 pm
This guy Elroy has a much more glamorous resume than the 5 GMs Peter King spoke to – all of which said it’s a no brainer to take Mariota over Winston.
And the same big handful of GMs said Bridgewater wasn’t a franchise QB prospect and shouldn’t go in the first round. –Joe
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:13 pm
Joe. Why are you so sure that Winston will be the chosen one? I have been leaning toward Winston all year… But after watching the Rose Bowl and taking Winston’s off field issues into consideration I am now leaning towards drafting Mariota… I’m sorry but I just can’t ignore the HUGE warning signs I see and I can’t believe you don’t also consider them… Accusations of rape, point shaving, illegally signing autographs, getting caught STEALING, getting benched and almost expelled for acting like an idiot… These are only a FEW of the infractions and accusations that we were made aware of… How many things have been covered up?
Winston makes poor immature decisions… I am doubtful this pattern of behaviour will improve after you give him $35 million dollars, a lot more stress and a lot more responsibility to deal with…
Draft Mariota, hire Greg Roman and go for it… Mariota is a great leader, great athlete and I do believe he will be a great NFL QB in the proper situation…
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:14 pm
Yeah, this says it all. Mariota is the safer play, but if you want to be more than an OK team you have to roll the dice and go for Winston.
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:16 pm
I can throw a better deep ball than bridgewater it’s embarrassing to watch his wobbly passes. You can keep pushing for Winston Joe but Mariota is who we want and who we will get and once he is a Buc you will no longer be a Bucs fan at least we won’t consider you one that’s for sure. If mariota was a gimmick QB he wouldn’t be remotely close to where he is being considered in the draft. Mariota will be a big star a cross between Wilson kapernick and Aaron Rogers big mistake even thinking of passing on him.
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:16 pm
I like Winston over Mariota for the same reasons. I think, in part, that Mariota looked so good vs FSU was the Seminoles D had no answer for the Boise offense. I liked Winston’s reaction to the extreme pressure that Boise D put on him – he had some good throws and only one INT that was not his fault (ya, the backward pass was “butt-fumble” like).
Mariota looked good too. But he did not have the nfl throws Winston did. Not saying he could not develop them, but u never know
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:20 pm
Geezo pezzo Joe…NO One is questioning Winstons ability….perhaps in you (poll) you could have what if Jameis had no CHARACTER ISSUES….which is he major neghative
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:20 pm
What a hit piece Mac. Jeeze.
Get off the rape train. He was cleared. Like 5 times from all that. So just stop. Point shaving? Show me proof. I contend that bill belichick shaves points!!!! Anyone can say anything. Show me proof.
These people who want to bury Winston cause of his ‘concerns’ are so full of it their eyes are brown. He has a couple of minor issues. Crab legs being the most egregious. Come on.
Also, Winston is CLEARLY the better QB. Mariota was air mailing and missing on easy easy throws. He can’t stand in the pocket and deliver an accurate throw. His long throws are cupcakes where he just airs it out and let’s his wide open guy run under it. He doesn’t go through progressions, he doesn’t make in play adjustments, he isn’t breaking a D down, he isn’t very accurate down field (his completion % is unimpressive, 70 percent of them are screens and swing passes. Hooray.)
Winston o the other hand fires in difficult throws, goes through his reads, stands in the pocket, gets away from pressure, is a proven winner, and tough competitor. He is clearly, clearly the best option for Tampa. That we’re even discussing this is insulting to Jameis.
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:22 pm
I think Winston is too much of an unknown to risk taking #1. He already stated he is going to play baseball we don’t need another Boe Jackson. Also, the girl that accused him of rape I think lives in the Tampa Bay Area so that will follow him here.
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:25 pm
Talk about a waffler, I can’t pick between these two QB’s. I also have no clue who the Bucs will take. It will probably be that way the day before the draft.
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:27 pm
Draft Winston and start winning. We can draft Mariota as WR later on, he looks quick.
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:27 pm
I have yet to hear one spud reason to not pick Mariota. I have heard several for why not to Jameis. The bs that Mariota’s game won’t translate is irritating. Will Mariota run the exact same scheme as he did in Oregon in the NFL. No! Will Winston run a similar scheme to what he is now, sure. That’s not to say Mariota CANT run a different scheme. Also who ever picks him up will have to incorporate things that he has proven to be good at. The same can be said for Winston. Winston nor Mariota are “pro ready” that’s bs. They will both need some time, the adjustment of playing against bigger faster and smarter grown men will be an adjustment both of these guys will have to make. When drafting the golden rule is draft a guy with a highest floor and ceiling. Mariota has the heightest floor and ceiling between the two. Jameis at worse could be Jamarcus Russell or Bryon Leftwich(similar release and that scares me). Jameis at best could be the next Big Ben(which I think he will be). Mariota at worse will be Kapenick(sp?) at best he could be Aaron Rodgers but faster. I don’t see how anyone could pass up on that kind of a floor and ceiling!
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:28 pm
If you think the Bucs QB position is more stressful than what Winston has dealt with the last several years you’re uninformed. In college he’s had to deal with media (mostly of his doing) focusing to bring down the whole program, a football and baseball season with expectations through the roof in regards to both sports and as well as keeping a 3.6GPA in engineering.
When drafted, he’ll deal with his playbook, coaches and teammates. If he keeps his nose clean and performs at just an OK level from the start the media coverage will be minimal to nonexistent to what he deals with now.
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:29 pm
No need for BS. THanks. –Joe
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:30 pm
So, for every one you dig up for Winston, there are three out there for Mariota.
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:31 pm
I for one appreciate the insight that comes from these various opinions on Winston.
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:35 pm
I’d rather go for Hundley or Petty.
Williams 1st
Hundley (or OT) 2nd
Petty (or OT if Hundley was drafted) 3rd
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:37 pm
Gus, you bring up valid points but it will take time for Mariota to transition. And quite frankly, after this past season, L&L are running out of time. I believe that’s why Joe is taking this position on Winston… I won’t put words in his mouth and while I do think Joe favors Winstons ability, I believe he understands that there is a time crunch at it pertains to this organization. They haven’t fired Lovie and most of our personnel on offense is geared toward drafting Winston… People better get on board or find a new team because of he declares, the real #5 will be taking snaps at Raymond Jameis Stadium.
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:41 pm
Mad max, I could get down with drafting a QB later but the only gaurantee is the first pick. You take that gamble and it doesn’t work than you want to talk about scrambling to find someone to play QB. I’ll reiterate, the clock is on this coach and front office.
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:42 pm
@Gus
I doubt Mariota’s accuracy is worthy of the 1st pick overall status, thats my reason.
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:44 pm
Who cares what a bust QB thinks bet they would let him near there family or girlfriend
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:45 pm
Lovie will trade the number one pick to Chicago for draft picks and a franchise QB, in Lovie’s mind, Jay Cutler. He will then have his top two QBs Cutler and McCown, what more could we want?
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:47 pm
@JSmalls,
I’d even draft Petty in the 2nd if Hundley didnt make it (and he probably wont). We would have to do some creative trading to move back up for Hundley. I was referring to my picks in order as 1st, 2nd, 3rd….but also hoping those players are there in that draft order.
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:48 pm
Stop Joe!! You have to be the most stuborn people (if it’s both you) that I’ve ever seen. This deliberate obsession with beating a dead horse is just unbelievable. Why not explore any and all players that could become Bucs instead of focussing on one bust in the making that probably has 1% chance of being a Buc. The dude hasn’t even declared so you’re wasting all this time and energy on a long shot at best. Where’s the poll that’s going to prove how silly this sherade is…
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:53 pm
And I’m sorry but never heard of your McElroy. As hard as it is to find supporters for your new crush it’s very easy to find the true experts that pick Mariota. Of course the true Buc fans don’t to get to see those unless we research ourselves.
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:54 pm
Greg who? Lmao
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:55 pm
Winston – INTs = 18
Mariota – INTs = 3
Lovie will want to take care of the football… Not take care of an immature spoiled trouble maker…
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:55 pm
Hey Joe!! news flash: Winston and Greg are friends dude. OMG you seriously don’t think He is bias. WOW!!!! Is that who you go with Greg McElroy???? Has he coached? Played in the NFL?? Drop every Lovie and listen to Greg McElroy he is a draft expert! Lol.
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:55 pm
You pusshed for Johnny Football….was he NFL ready?
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:56 pm
Don’t want a running QB. Have we not learned from a few out there. Take Winston. Let him go live with Derrick Brooks.
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:57 pm
That’s makes How many on the list for Winston now? You, Greg and who???lol
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:58 pm
@ kaland
Hit piece? Not really… I merely summarized everything that has been made public… And I stated that they were merely accusations… But were there is smoke there is fire my friend…
Stay away from people with mental problems and never make a deal with the devil…
January 3rd, 2015 at 4:59 pm
LMAO! Here’s something from McElroy several months ago in an Alabama newspaper, the Montgomery Advertiser:
As much as Greg McElroy likes Jameis Winston as a player, he would “steer completely clear” of the Heisman Trophy winner if he was an owner or general manager of an NFL team.
“I just think there’s too many concerns, too much immaturity in regards to stealing crab legs and things that are just ridiculous,” said McElroy on Monday on his SiriusXM College Sports Nation radio show, The First Team.
Opinions and evaluations are fluid and changing, here, there and everywhere else.–Joe
January 3rd, 2015 at 5:01 pm
Anyone who thinks our front office would want Jameis to be the face of our franchise instead of Mariota is totally insane. Winston would be horrible for our image in the comnunity and therefore it will never happen, Joe. Get over it. I think you need an intervention. You’re totally out of control at this point.
January 3rd, 2015 at 5:05 pm
You think brooks will let an accused rapist move in with him lol yea not so sure that happens let him move in with you
January 3rd, 2015 at 5:07 pm
Max,
Quit sniffing glue dude! Hundley is NOT a viable option.Last nights game is just a small sample of how clueless he is in the pocket.Sure he can run but he is a poor mans Josh Freeman at best.No “feel” for what is going on around him.Petty can be descent and throws a nice ball,but he needs some transition time but should be descent.Your Ucla boy will be a total bust.no question about it.
January 3rd, 2015 at 5:07 pm
Joe was out of control last year with Manziel and to this day he will nor admit he was wrong! He wants Winston as the face of Tampa Bay that tells me all I need to know about Joe.
When Joe is sure he is wrong on Manziel, then Joe will happily admit it. Joe just wants the best QB for the Bucs. –Joe
January 3rd, 2015 at 5:13 pm
Sir, it’s really not nice to put malicious assumptions about Joe here in the comments. It’s just not nice. Joe is hardly alone in his interest in Winston as a Bucs QB, and a smart pick. Joe writes about what Joe finds most interesting. It’s been that here since Day 1. If Joe was catering to the masses, then Joe wouldn’t write in the third person. Joe’s been pro-Winston for months, and was a fan going back to last year. Joe did not earn the No. 1 overall pick, the Bucs did.–Joe
January 3rd, 2015 at 5:15 pm
What’s so bad about being a Robert Griffin lll double? He was excellent his rookie year and won a Heisman at Baylor. His problem was he was too reckless, attention-seeking, and threw his teammates under the bus.
Mariota has none of those qualities, and I think he would do very successful in a similar offense. RG3 once ripped the Bucs a new one his rookie year, on the fly during the final drive of the game, supposedly with his helmet mic not working so he had to improvise. I think we all remember that painful loss. I’ll take that any day.
January 3rd, 2015 at 5:18 pm
The boosters at FSU can’t wait to get rid of Wnston as is Fisher and this franchise going to pick this guy in the draft. Winston is a head case, I don’t care how talented you are if you lack what is needed between the ears you are not a good investment. They have an opportunity to pick up Mariota , who is quite talented himself and from what we have seen and heard is exceptional between the ears. It would be another sad chapter in the Bucs franchise if we pass. At the end of the day I would think you want people in seats and someone fans can cheer for not just here in Tampa but other cities as well. Have kids that can actually have parents buy jerseys because they like what the player represents. We shouldn’t hope the guy makes the right decisions off the field it is a given it should, Winstons history tells us that an investment in his services isn’t worthy.
January 3rd, 2015 at 5:23 pm
I do undersand that stirring the pot is good for business, so I’m not mad at you. But please include a Mariota article every few days or something. Pleeeease. And yes, stirring the pot would be the ONLY logical reason to want Winston over Mariota (considering all variables). More NFL-ready (physically) is invalid bcuz of his mental instability. Why do u think some #1 drafted QB’s bust in the NFL? Hint: it’s not bcuz of their physical abilities. Mariota is our new QB. Time to embrace him.
January 3rd, 2015 at 5:25 pm
I am not going to pretend like I know which is better. I just hope we pick the right guy and can win another Superbowl!
January 3rd, 2015 at 5:25 pm
Joe we have no oc so you can pick a guy for mariota lol we never had a system for offense last year lol
January 3rd, 2015 at 5:26 pm
Joe how is winston going to play Sunday’s when goodell suspends him ?
January 3rd, 2015 at 5:26 pm
Joe, just telling the truth.-Jj
January 3rd, 2015 at 5:29 pm
@Gus, the knock on Mariota is that he can’t throw into tight windows and doesn’t move through his progression. If his first read is covered, he often runs. There’s no way to know if he’ll develop these skills just like there is no way to know if Winston will mature as a person.
January 3rd, 2015 at 5:36 pm
ok gus…
that is your opinion. mine is mariota’s floor is johnny manziel and ceiling is rgiii. winston’s floor is rothlisberger and ceiling is a stronger aaron rodgers/andrew luck.
see how that works?
ps kaepernick was good 2 years ago and regressing last year and this year. 49ers fans are questioning his abilities.
January 3rd, 2015 at 5:41 pm
@ lurker
His floor is Ben Rothlisburger? The one who won a Super Bowl or the one who raped that girl in the back of the bar in Georgia?
I’m confused…
January 3rd, 2015 at 5:42 pm
@north, sniff my buttcrack.
January 3rd, 2015 at 5:47 pm
well considering that winston didn’t rape anyone…i’d say the superbowl-winning qb.
January 3rd, 2015 at 5:51 pm
Joe, REALLY???? you are sooooooooooooo reaching now. Next you will be quoting Winston’s mother. You can try to keep this insane debate alive but here is reality. To quote Mac, where there is smoke there is fire and there is a lot of smoke swirling around Winston. The same thing happended with Johnny last year but you and the Browns ignored it and bought the spin. You don’t have to take my word for it the Browns locker room, minus Josh Gorden, has been saying what many suspected last year. Too much risk with Winston, Lovie will never take him. He may in fact be more talented, but that is only part of the equation. In today’s NFL he may never see the field.
January 3rd, 2015 at 5:56 pm
@ lurker
I believe his floor is more like Jamarcus Russell… Big talented NFL arm, small pea sized minor league brain and attitude…
January 3rd, 2015 at 5:58 pm
luker and mac, here is the reality on the rape charge. There was not enough evidence to proceed. Frankly no one knows if it was rape or not except winston, the woman and his friends who were there. The video tape may have helped clear this up but it no longer exists. I’m not calling him a rapist and no one can say he didn’t rape her. What we can say is that there was not enough evidence to proceed.
January 3rd, 2015 at 6:07 pm
@ bucnut2
I agree… Again, I stated that they were merely accusations…As are point shaving and breaking NCAA autograph regulations…
But I repeat… Were there is smoke there is fire… If I were GM I would pass and let Tennessee make the deal with the devil…
January 3rd, 2015 at 6:11 pm
Erik who Cleans Athletes,
I think you’re confusing his off the field issues with work ethic. Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russel and Vince Young didn’t succeed not because they were accused of rape, shooting BB guns and hollering obscenities, it was due to not putting in the time on and off the field. Just like Johnny Keg Stand, his issue is he’s allergic to the playbook and addicted to partying with his peeps.
Erik, cleaner of athletes, does the fact that Jameis is the leader of both the baseball and football team along with being an ACC all academic not impress you? How can you accomplish all of that without extreme commitment and work ethic. Carried a 4.0 in HS and was offered a scholarship from Stanford.
I can’t defend the issues he himself has caused and only time will tell if he keeps making bad decisions in the limited free time he has, but don’t make the assumption he won’t give you every last bit of effort perfecting his craft because his accomplishments speak otherwise.
January 3rd, 2015 at 6:12 pm
Lovie doesn’t permit cursing….I’m quite sure he would be opposed to rape(alleged)…..kleptomania….bb gun shooting and shouting obsceities from a tabletop in the cafeteria….other than that, Lovie’s probably on board!!!
January 3rd, 2015 at 6:13 pm
Mac agreed see my post to Joe.
January 3rd, 2015 at 6:17 pm
Jsmalls, come on man, we can disagree without insulting each other.
January 3rd, 2015 at 6:18 pm
tampabaybucfan, what you said!
January 3rd, 2015 at 6:21 pm
bucnut2
“What we can say is that there was not enough evidence to proceed.”
hence he is not a rapist. it is an accusation.
January 3rd, 2015 at 6:22 pm
@ bucnut2
Honestly, we are all human and we all make mistakes…
However, I have learned from my mistakes…
With Winston I see mistake after mistake after mistake… The controversies never seem to end with this kid…
Not to mention… He had a chance to lead the team back and challenge Oregon in the Rose Bowl and he CHOCKED big time… He fumbled and gave Oregon the deal breaking defensive TD… Pathetic… Just like his immaturity…
January 3rd, 2015 at 6:25 pm
@mac
i have no idea what marinston’s floor/ceiling are going to be and neither does anyone else. gus just seemed so sure of how each would perform professionally. i was giving an example of another possibility.
January 3rd, 2015 at 6:26 pm
All you ex glennonites are in for a big shocker …..Mariota is like #5-#7 on teams big board….so we should reach for him at #1….maybe if we and other teams didnt have winston higher on there board …..LOL
January 3rd, 2015 at 6:26 pm
mac, what was your maturity at 20? what kind of pressure did you have then? what is your maturity now?
January 3rd, 2015 at 6:27 pm
lurker, no there is a difference, he could have raped her and no one other than the involved parties knows the truth. The Judge DID NOT say he did not do it. He said both stories, hers and his, had strong and weak points and there was not enough evidence to proceed. I strongly suggest you read teh New York Times report on this. It casts some doubt.
January 3rd, 2015 at 6:28 pm
nate which teams???
January 3rd, 2015 at 6:29 pm
Guys, take a look at the Carolina game and what their offense is doing to a great Cardinal defense. This is why we’ll take Mariota
January 3rd, 2015 at 6:36 pm
bucnut2
i strongly suggest you read the post joe linked to that called into question the “reporting” in the nytimes article.
maybe the joes will link to it again.
January 3rd, 2015 at 6:43 pm
@ lurker
Understood… But even at 20 I learned from my mistakes… When someone keeps making mistakes it appears more like a “pattern of behavior” rather than an isolated incidence of being in the wrong place at the wrong time…
It’s this pattern of behavior I see as a major problem… Why would this behavior change once you give him unlimited money and Ybor city?
Sorry but I just don’t trust Winston and I see major red flags that point of a very immature and selfish person…
I don’t want him leading my team…
January 3rd, 2015 at 6:47 pm
Lurker, I read it. I think we should ask a question. what motive does the Times have to trash Winston and the Tallahassee police department. But regardless, lets say he’s totally innocent, why would we take the chance. If he blows it, he sets the franchise back 5 years. Most experts agree that it is a close talent call between Winston and Mariota. Winston’s off and on field judgment concern me greatly. I’m not saying he isn’t talented, I am saying we CANNOT take him #1 overall. As said many times, if we can trade down, get a ton of picks and grab him at 5 or lower I’m all in. IMO we need extra picks to mitigate the extra risk that comes with Winston.
January 3rd, 2015 at 6:50 pm
being 20, big man on campus at a party university…he made a few mistakes. 20 is still young. red flags, perhaps. but there might be more to it than we know.
i think winston is gone. he is tired of the fsu experience and fischer as i am sure fischer is tired of him.
hopefully whichever qb we pick will be a winner for us! we need it.
January 3rd, 2015 at 6:55 pm
Generally if a person is prone to mistakes before he recieves a huge contract…..the likelyhood that he would make mistakes AFTER recieving a big contract is pretty good….
The reward on Winston is simply not worth the risk when you have an equal or better alternative….and Mariota seems to at least be equal.
January 3rd, 2015 at 7:02 pm
Tampabaybucsfan, can you give examples? Are you referring to Moss, Sapp, Berfict(you think bengals are glad they took the risk) and any others with ‘Red Flags.’
And I apologize for the name calling earlier, I just get worked up defending Bucs players….
January 3rd, 2015 at 7:05 pm
There is no way that Lovie will want Winston on the sidelines. Dungy wouldn’t have either. We either take Marcus or we trade down. And add this to the calculation Joe…you can bet if he self destructed into another John Freeman, or worse a Johnny speedy smurf, the Glazers would never live it down…. or the fans…they might as well sell the franchise.
January 3rd, 2015 at 7:05 pm
Lolllll at Mariota having a ceiling if Aarn Rodgers. Mariota’s floor us every other gimmicky QB that’s come out of Oregon the last decade. Madiotas thriw before half waa indicative of what’s ti come in the NfL. He didn’t just miss the receiver of the middle by a couple feet, he AIRMAILED it 3 yards over his head. It was a horrendous throw. Hiw fitting that Mariota plays for the Ducks bc he sure throws a lot of them. He is AT BEST a two year project.
The one caveat to all of this is the fact thst we have three gargantuan receivers and a 6′ great receiving back for him. They all have huge receiving radius so accuracy is not a huge deal. Mariota will never be Aaron Rodgers but he can be a damn good Marcus Mariota and keep plays akive long enough to quite literally throw it up for our big receivers. Manziel has better accuracy than Mariota and we are learning that he misses Evans dearly. Get Manziel a cpl 6’5″ receivers and he’ll tear it up.
Again, I will reiterate that Winston is clearly the better pro prospect for a conventional offense but Mariota is more dynamic and may fit what the Bucs are looking to do.
January 3rd, 2015 at 7:12 pm
@JSmalls
Aaron Hernandez & Mike Williams come to mind……I’m sure I could do a bit of research and find many….
January 3rd, 2015 at 7:17 pm
lurker, well said! we are on the same page just want a great outcome for our team! Nice debate, thank you for sparring with me. Best, Bucnut!
January 3rd, 2015 at 7:23 pm
Bucs Nation has a good article on how to talk about a draft prospect sensibly. It pretty much says a lot of people use a simplistic way of explaining a prospect, which in turn means nothing. Such as he just wins, or he plays in a pro-style system, or he throws very little interceptions.
January 3rd, 2015 at 7:25 pm
Winston might be a better NFL prospect
Mariota will be a better NFL finished product
January 3rd, 2015 at 7:26 pm
From watching the Oregon game I think Winston has a lot of work to do before he is NFL ready. His mechanics weren’t great. Slow motion throwing almost baseball like. Sidearm throws. Doesn’t really have a feel for the pocket as he didn’t feel the pressure coming. All fixable things though.
January 3rd, 2015 at 7:30 pm
@ skyline crew
Or he just rapes a few chicks…
Or he just steals a few crab legs…
Lol… Just kidding…
January 3rd, 2015 at 7:33 pm
I’m sorry but being 18-20 is not an excuse for your actions.
January 3rd, 2015 at 7:34 pm
@tampabaybucsfan
We’re talking about immature decisions not associating with gang members (Hernandez) and not going to class (Williams). As I said before, if their were reports that pointed to a lack of commitment and work ethic I’d be concerned.
January 3rd, 2015 at 7:37 pm
The evidence strongly demonstrates that Super Bowl winning QB’s dominate from the pocket. Winston’s best highlights are of him throwing from the pocket. He makes NFL throws to all parts of the field. Mariota’s best highlights are of him running or throwing on the run. He is not making tight window throws from the pocket. Those are facts.
January 3rd, 2015 at 7:41 pm
Skyline Crew for Mariota or Winston Says:
January 3rd, 2015 at 7:26 pm
From watching the Oregon game I think Winston has a lot of work to do before he is NFL ready. His mechanics weren’t great. Slow motion throwing almost baseball like. Sidearm throws. Doesn’t really have a feel for the pocket as he didn’t feel the pressure coming. All fixable things though.
You are not capable of thinking. Compare and contrast your statements to those that say Winston is NFL ready. You cannot do it.
January 3rd, 2015 at 7:47 pm
@skyline
When Winston fumbled I was concerned it was a bad decision but looking at the down and distance 4th&5 down 19 late in the third, it doesnt seem so terrible. I mean, game was over at that point the way FSU’s D was playing. But do you agree Mariota’s overthrow INT late in the 2nd with your team up going to the half was a poorer decision? Look, one of these guys is going to be our QB and Mariota’s accuracy beyond 5 yards in the first half was pretty awful. Hell, weren’t 2/3rds of his completions within 3 yards of the line of scrimmage. Trust me, it would be much easier getting on board with Mariota than defending Winston but I just don’t see it.
January 3rd, 2015 at 7:47 pm
What bothers the people who are against Jameis Winston is that they know in their hearts that the young lady wanted that BIG BLACK ANACONDA! She was moaning! When Winston did not give her any more of it, she had a fit and made false allegations of rape.
January 3rd, 2015 at 7:50 pm
Not being malicious, just noticing a trend. I will withhold any observations about your articles going forward and stick to reading the comment section like I normally do.
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:11 pm
Petty is projected for the 5-6th round. Why waste a 3rd on him?
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:15 pm
Ppl say Mariota is Aaron Rodgers lol funny do u realize he is pin point accurate and has a cannon not to mention perfect mechanics
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:16 pm
Jsmalls, my team? I’m not an Oregon guy. Also, the first half both QBs were awful looking. I chalk that up to nerves on both sides. Yes Mariota had some bad throws, but Winston did as well. I could argue that if Winston wasn’t staring down receivers that the lime.an wouldn’t have tipped his pass and it wouldn’t have been intercepted. He does hold on to the ball to long a lot. He doesn’t understand the pressure on the pocket. Oregon was fast, but not NFL fast. Winston will have to think quicker. Also, I’m done writing about Mariota because this is a Winston thread and until we have a Mariota thread there is no point talking about him.
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:18 pm
Loggedontosay, are you 12?
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:24 pm
@ Johnson Smalls,
Mariota is the type of guy (personally) that the bucs look for when adding a player to our team. He has the character, self control and demeanor that will fit in perfectly with the rest of our guys. Guaranteed Lovie wouldn’t bring in a guy like Winston. (Only speaking on his public perception and lude behavior). Mariota is the obvious pick. This debate is futile.
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:31 pm
Joes,
Where was my ” Morning cup of joe from HootersCalender.com” today?
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:38 pm
@ logged on to say
I can tell by your comments that you don’t have a daughter and you don’t have a sister… And you may not have a mother…
Good luck to you my friend…
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:38 pm
As has been the case since Joe started that feature four years ago, it does not appear on weekends.
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:40 pm
#59 for Carolina is a bad boy.
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:41 pm
Joes,
Sorry about that. Still kind of new here. But I do enjoy those little snippets of news. And, oh yeah, the pictures ain’t bad either.
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:42 pm
Mac, loggedon is just a racist and race baiter. Best to just let him be as he brings nothing to these conversations.
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:43 pm
DB55,
Luke Kuechly is a BEAST.
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:46 pm
come on now skyline. it is called maturity for a reason. and it does have to do with age/experience, everyone makes mistakes. i don’t think he made excuses either.
so again, what was your maturity level at vs now?
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:46 pm
Maybe Loggedontosay wants some of that snake?
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:48 pm
@Erik with a K
Yeah, Dom, Raheem and Shiano always targeted team captains and great character guys… And I’m still waiting for results. We need a guy like Sapp that will get in guys faces and skip through opposing teams warm ups. That has tremendous value in an NFL locker room.
Mariota’s too passive… If things don’t go well from the start the locker room will eat him alive. But keep believing otherwise.
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:48 pm
Hey told y’all that OSU would win. I also told people at my work that Carolina would win the home game.
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:49 pm
Skyline Crew for Mariota or Winston Said:
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:18 pm
“Loggedontosay, are you 12?”
ahhhhhhhhhh see you believe age does matter for maturity…
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:50 pm
Just for the record, Mariota is more highly-rated coming into this draft than Aaron Rodgers was in his draft…. Absolutely nobody knew that Rodgers would become the type of player he is today. Anyone who says that Mariota’s ceiling couldn’t possibly be as high as Rodgers’ is smokin the crack pipe looney. With the type of focus, work ethic, and intelligence that Mariota has (combined with his physical abilities), his potential for greatness is virtually unlimited. That’s the Truth. In my view, his longterm ceiling is much higher than Winston’s.
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:50 pm
@Skyline
His footwork is only an issue when pressured. You cannot blitz the guy or put 8 in the box, he will shred you. Has Mariota ever seen 7 in the box?
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:51 pm
Joe
Thanks for fixing the comments section. Yey!!
Dave pear what’s up brother?
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:51 pm
@Jsmalls
None of these we speak of were the number one overall pick…..I just don’t think the gamble is worth it…..now…
You could convince me to pick Mariota…then trade him to whoever takes Winston for Winston & extra picks… that reduces the risk considerably….
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:52 pm
Lurker, I went into the Marines at 18. I had to grow up quickly. I also, wasn’t the face of a football program. He should have grown up. I think he had be enabled at FSU. He needs discipline. What bodes well for him is that he hasn’t been in trouble since he was suspended a game. Let’s see what happens during baseball season.
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:53 pm
DB55,
Not much man.
I hope you and yours have great New Year.
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:54 pm
Jsmalls, yes he has. And he shredded them.
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:55 pm
Lurker, I said 18-20 was not an excuse for maturity. 12 is a little kid.
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:00 pm
Sure did. Likwise
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:00 pm
Speaking for Pablo
“Pablo is very disturbed by some of the racist comments about Winston….Pablo is not racist….he likes the thought of bringing in Sanchez or even offering a tryout to Jeff Garcia….Pablo thinks Arroyo should be given another shot and Pablo thinks that we should try to snag Ron Rivera to coach….Pablo wants his Bucs to go after Victor Cruz & beef up our Oline with Manny Ramirez & Louis Vasquez…Pablo doesn’t have a racist bone in his body”
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:01 pm
Last year I would of rather had vick over McCown if I was lovie and also hester so who knows what this HC has up his sleeve, we probably won’t pick either MM or Winston in this draft…
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:02 pm
I’d pick Mariota first, but would be happy with Winston too.
For all those Winston naysayers, look what Cam Newton just did to the Arizona defense in the wild card game. The Panthers were kinda in the same boat as us. Having to decide whether or not to take a chance on an immature Heisman QB with off-field baggage. From having to leave Florida to go to a junior college, and almost getting suspended by the NCAA, to his childish on-field attitude (which hasn’t changed), he is very similar to Winston. Hell, they are even the same size.
Point being, Panthers took a chance, and it paid off (even if they went 7-9). IMO it would be best for Winston to stay in college like Mariota did last year, because he is a little bit more of a risk than Cam.
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:07 pm
I will repeat myself for those who haven’t read it yet….
Giving Lovie the #1 draft pick is like giving a 5 year old a loaded gun.
You know it’s not going to end well.
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:08 pm
I don’t remember Can Newton having off the field issues like Winston has…
I’m not knocking Winston’s ability I am highly concerned by his pattern of poor behavior, immature judgement and selfish actions…
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:12 pm
Speakiing for Pablo
“Pablo almost forgot that he thinks organizing a jail break for Aaron Hernandez would be good for the Bucs….Pablo thinks you can never have enough good TEs”
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:18 pm
The people on here comparting mariotta to Aaron Rodgers is insane. Rodgers is one of the most pinpoint passers of all time and mariotta is clearly not. Just in the last game alone he missed a minimum of 7 wide open receivers and he was under no pressure. Over 190 of his passing yards were on bubble screens and the deep ball off of those screens and those will not be there in the NFL. This guy will set this team up for another 10 years of losing if we draft him. If drafted we are not getting the whole offense just him you people know that right?
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:18 pm
Didn’t Cam get kicked out of Florida from stealing stuff from a roommate? Like a laptop and other things. Then there was the huge debacle about him allegedly taking money to transfer to Auburn. Not to mention he acts like a child when he does something so simple as to get a first down (never mind what he does win he actually wins), and he whines like a baby on the sidelines when things don’t go his way.
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:20 pm
Almost every single guy that enters the nfl in the spotlight has a “rape girl”.
I have reservations about both. The only thing that excited me is mariota ability to keep a drive alive by scrambling. But he is not accurate and fails to make sound decisions if his first receiver is covered. He will get hit if he runs and he will get hurt.
While winston is a major idiot, he also does things well and that translate into the nfl. Tampa bay is a bad spot for someone with his track record. The homies start coming down to Tampa and going to mons. It’s not good.
I don’t think winston will be josh freeman in the sense that he is much better at playing the qb position and too many people will be in his ear at the beginning. If winston has early success then he may regress bc of the distractions that come with playing in Tampa bay.
Mariota will not only regress but will be a bust in Tampa if the right system is not on place. And if we happen to get the right system, good nfl DC will figure it out and murder him as the years go on. Mariota needs major major work ON the field. Where as winston needs major major work OFF the field.
Either way, if loveie is the one pulling the trigger. Were all doomed.
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:23 pm
Winston is officially a loser now (just meaning he lost a game). He’ll be leaving a legacy of choking in his final game and steadily regressing as a QB from his 1st year through the 2nd. He had a great career overall, but he didn’t come through in the clutch in the biggest game of the season on the biggest stage. Most of his famous comebacks were due to him playing poorly early on and putting his team in a hole. He is highly overrated, IMO. Mariota is the obvious pick. Debate is futile.
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:23 pm
Tbbf
I’m crying ova here. Not a bad plan though.
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:24 pm
So Winston is like Cam in onfield maturity? I can see that. Both whine and cry and scream. Not sure I have seen Cam threatened to be benched though. I prefer Mariota first and Winston second. However, after his comments I think he stays. I guess we will find out on the 15th.
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:24 pm
For the record I liked Pablo.
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:26 pm
Both need work at the NFL level as done any QB drafted. Winston isn’t great under pressure and needs to work on throwing mechanics to be quicker.
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:29 pm
Glennon reminds me of Flacco.
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:31 pm
@DB55
I miss Pablo….he brough a “youthful” perspective (10yrs old) to JBF…..
We can all use a bit of humor now and then….Isn’t it nice to have the argument between Winston & Mariota instead of Glennon vs McCown?
Can’t we all just get along???
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:39 pm
TBBF, Glennon is better than McCown. hahaha
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:40 pm
Turd Winston showed his inner thugness at the Rose Bowl on the sidelines with his profanity laced temper tantrums Just because somebody “matures” doesn’t mean that they turn into a better person, just an older version of themselves. If Bucs draft him it will set the franchise back another five years
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:41 pm
No doubt.
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:42 pm
I really believe like 3 people that comment on this site have actually seen Winston play. He would be the best leader this team had every had on offense the second he walks through the door. He does not wine he actually plays and reacts like he gives a damn about his teams performance, similar to other qbs like brady, manning, etc… Most of you have never actually seen a offensive player/leader with passion before. I guess you all want the calm/crappy leadership of Glennon, McCown, Greise, Simms. You people have to understand this guy is the defenition of a competitive.
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:43 pm
Speaking of Glennon…..he is a valuable commodity considering the weak QB class in this draft….There is little chance that we keep him if we draft a QB….we would want an experienced QB to mentor either choice we make……Think Hassleback would be a good pickup….even a restructure of McCown would be bad for use as a backup.
Unfortunately, we will likely be forced into starting our #1 draft pick.
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:48 pm
None of the nfl’s current top 10 qbs won a Heisman nor a national championship. The Heisman rewards athleticism; the national championship a good supporting cast. Take a pass on both qbs, trade down with goal of getting three quality starters. Neither of these will be ellite nfl qbs.
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:49 pm
Glennon will be a good QB for the right team….we might even get a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him….I could see him going to Arizona or St. Louis…even the Bears or Bills….
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:51 pm
Mike Glennon is your franchise QB. Bucs trade away #1 to Eagles .
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:56 pm
@crayhopper
Makes really good sense….but I think the Bucs fanbase wan’t to use the pick on a QB…..we have had a QB void for many years and even a gamble on one of these two is more acceptable than the alternative.
One scenerio I propose is to pick Mariota at 1 then attempt to trade him to the team that chooses Winston (Jets, Tenn, Wash, St. Louis) for extra picks…..thinking that Marriota would be their preferred QB…..especially if the Jets are the team. (Sort of a Manning/Rivers deal)
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:57 pm
Yes, a guy who played QB IN COLLEG, but wasn’t good enough for the pros…is very capable of telling everyone else what a good NFL prospect looks like.
So far, the things that Famous Jameis is well known for – sound a LOT like Geno Smith…and the things those of us DON’t like about him…sound a LOT like Geno Smith.
That’s the BEST example I can provide. Leaving his WELL documented problems OFF the field – his on field performance leaves a LOT to be desired.
McElroy has no pro chops – Geno Winston (…er, I mean Jameis Smith) ran into a couple of defenses this year that exposed his lack of maturity and inconsistency…unfortunately for Jameis, Oregon’s offense was able to capitalize on what their defense exposed.
The Buccaneers, and their fans, should be grateful for this…not try to explain how what we saw, wasn’t really what we saw.
This kid needs at least another year in school…
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:59 pm
Heard polian interviewed. He liked both guys said may take mariotta a little more time. He also said mariotta reminded him of Russell Wilson a little. Sounds like bucs get a good guy either way. Heard mike tannenbaum say he wouldn’t take Winston that early based on immaturity concerns. If mariota projects to Russell Wilson and no baggage I probably give him the edge right now. No risk..
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:04 pm
Joe and the rest of you ignorant, jock sniffing, know-nothing Winston lovers;
You FSU supporting, Bucs fans obviously don’t know sh’t about football outside your insular little worlds.
Let me spell it out for you:::
Professional football teams are BILLION dollar companies. The quarterback is the top of the pyramid of your personnel. Not just as a leader and player, but also as the face of your franchise.
And you people think Jameis Winston is going to be picked before Mariota? LOLOLOLOL…….
Jameis Winston will NEVER be picked before Mariota.
Never.
Why? Aside from the rape allegation, the petty theft, the BB gun shooting, the obscenity yelling…have you ever heard that dumbass talk? He can barely put 5 words together that make sense. Here’s a direct quote from his post Rose Bowl presser:::
“We turned the ball over a lot. We beat ourselF. Just be real with yourselF right now. We beat ourselF.”
And he’s gonna be the face of a billion $ franchise?
You know, I could mention the stats…especially the fact that Mariota has the 2nd highest QBR in college football HISTORY. Or I could mention his outrageously good completion %. (Over 68%) Or that in all of college football history, only a handful of quarterbacks have thrown for more career touchdowns than Mariota (who has come close to this record in only 3 years!)
But there really is only 1 stat that slaps you knuckleheads in the face:::
Mariota has thrown less interceptions in 3 YEARS TOTAL, than Winston has thrown just this year alone. (13 vs 18)
And he’s accomplished that with 3 star recruits, not 5 stars. He’s done that with a makeshift offensive line, a depleted receiving corps.
Anyway, why are low interceptions important?
Because what that tells me is he is making the Right Decisions most of the time.
And DECISION MAKING IS ABSOLUTELY THE #1 TRAIT YOU WANT IN A QUARTERBACK.
If you don’t agree with that statement, you don’t know sh’t about football.
Escapability? Look at how slow Peyton Manning is.
Big Arm? Anyone ever see Joe Montana or Fran Tarkenton earn a living? They didn’t have cannons for arms.
Loud leader? Aaron Rodgers leads like Mariota–let’s his play do the talking.
You see, it’s decision making that defines excellence.
Everyone of the aforementioned QB’s had DIFFERENT physical traits, but they were/are all excellent decision makers.
And THAT trait is what sets Mariota ahead of Winston. And I’m not just talking about Winston’s 18 interceptions this year or his off-field decision making (horrible as we know), I’ve NEVER seen a QB argue with his coach…during the Rose Bowl, for cripes sake!!..like Winston. (During the game, Jimbo threatened to bench him if he didn’t get his behavior under control) He’s done that several times over his college career. Not only is that immaturity, but that’s piss poor decision making.
And the 2nd most important trait?
MASTERY OF THE PLAYBOOK.
If you haven’t watched Mariota throughout his career, then you don’t realize that there just isn’t anyone who knows his offense backwards and forwards like him. Even for 1st time viewers during the Rose Bowl, Mariota’s mastery of the offense should have been readily apparent. What that tells me is he has put in the time and effort MENTALLY to be great. And if you listen to Scott Frost (Oregon’s offensive coordinator), that–more than his amazing physical tools–is what makes him the best player in college football and worthy of a #1 pick.
You say he’s a “system QB”. Yeah. So was every former college QB. Aaron Rodgers ran Cal’s west coast spread with option elements. Look at him now. Peyton Manning is on another world with his mastery of Denver’s offense. That’s what makes him so good. But did Tennessee ask that of him when he was there? Hell no!!
Same thing applies to Drew Brees and Purdue. Or Tom Brady at Michigan. They played in different college offenses than they presently do in the pros. But they MASTERED their college offenses. And they have mastered their different pro offenses.
My point is—who gives a sh’t if someone says Jameis could step into a pro offense. That actually means something if Jameis is playing ONE game for an NFL team right now.
But if I want a kid with the mental acuity to master my pro offense, I’m taking Mariota every day of the week.
(Did I mention that Mariota graduated with a physical science degree in 3 years?! The kid is smart.)
Don’t think mastery of the playbook is important for a QB draft choice?
Here’s the flip side::: Johnny Manziel. Ya think Cleveland’s front office is regretting that 1st round pick? You better believe they are! They sit that dumbass on the bench for most of the season. And when Hoyer gets hurt, Manziel is the next man up. Cleveland finds out Johnny Boy doesn’t know the plays. Read Peter King. Apparently, the Browns had to throw out 2/3rds of the offensive playbook for Manziel’s starts. Even after having the playbook since last April, he just didn’t know the plays.
Manziel made a DECISION not to know the play book. And instead, he has a MASTERY of doing keg stands with his homies.
Anyway, long story short.
There really is no doubt about what’s going to happen here. Mariota is the consensus #1 pick. (And to Matt, who claims that NFL teams have Winston #1 on their boards and Mariota at #5 or #6, you sir, are an ignorant dumbass who exposed himself to this entire board with that statement.)
Whether or not Tampa Bay keeps or trades the Mariota pick is up for debate.
But nothing else really is.
And if you people can’t see that, you really DON’T deserve Mariota.
One last thing::
Character, character, character.
=Mariota.
Who’d ya think I was going to say? Winston? Lolololol
End of discussion.
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:04 pm
Skyline Crew for Mariota or Winston Says:
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:18 pm
Loggedontosay, are you 12?
mac Says:
January 3rd, 2015 at 8:38 pm
@ logged on to say
I can tell by your comments that you don’t have a daughter and you don’t have a sister… And you may not have a mother…
Good luck to you my friend…
I made specific allegations about you two; all you can come up with is a diversion of those allegations? Diversions always means that you are hiding something. I can protect all women that I care about from people like the two of you.
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:06 pm
ChadBucsFan Says
“…the knock on Mariota is that he can’t throw into tight windows and doesn’t move through his progression. If his first read is covered, he often runs.”
I’ve been watching his games the last 2weeks. This is not an honest assessment. I think people know he’s a runner and make some assumptions.
He stays mobile in the pocket, and when he does run, he is always watching his WRs to throw it. he DOES make his progressions. He has good mechanics.
If you watch the Rose Bowl, that’s what you’ll see.
Winston did not make the throws Mariota did. All this talk about his accuracy? He consistently throws inside and slightly behind on deep passes…the NFL interception zone. Contrary to what is claimed here, Winston does not go through progressions. He holds onto the ball and waits, staring down his the WR he is intending to target.
And then, of course, there is his throwing mechanics. He is not as NFL ready as claimed.
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:07 pm
Crayhopper, I would argue that Carson Palmer is a top 10 QB based off of stats and his play. Also, Cam Newton just won a playoff game. Those two are doing fine. Granted Palmer did blow his knee for the 2nd or third time.
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:10 pm
Loggedontosay, you made no allegations to me. I stated an opinion of what I saw from Winston. Then you attacked me saying I couldn’t think. That is why I asked if you were 12. Then you made a racist comment about the rape allegations. You don’t act like a very mature person on these boards. You prefer to attack people versus having a debate or even discussing opinions. If it doesn’t match your opinion then in your eyes that person is stupid.
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:10 pm
Well said Bonzai.
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:20 pm
Billy Bob Picklenuts Says:
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:04 pm
Who’d ya think I was going to say? Winston? Lolololol
End of discussion.
The above statement was all that I saw. I decided to scoll up. No one has any idea what your is or might have been because no one read it.
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:22 pm
If I’m an NFL coach, the Rose Bowl turnedme off to Winston. While one game does not define a quarterbacks overall talent and potential, the Rose Bowl was an opportunity to see how he handled adversity on the field.
He threw temper tantrums, berated his teammates, screamed at his coach.
While I agree his teammates failed him, it was his job to shoulder the blame for them. He wasn’t taking command and holding them accountable. He was belittling them. The result? They quit on him.
Yes, I saw him (once) gather the offense and try to give them a pep talk…after insulting them most of the game.
His tendency to get in trouble might be overlooked if he showed strong leadership skills on gameday. It would show the potential to control himself. But he did not show the ability. Instead, he handled his first loss like a 14 year old.
Just like RGIII, Jamarcus Russel, Ryan Leaf and others with attitude trouble.
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:24 pm
@ Billybob Picklenuts
Speaking for Pablo
“Pablo thinks that translates to Guille Roberto Escabeche-cajones”
Speaking for TBBF
I think are right on about the #1 overall pick of a billion dollar francise…..I think the simple fact that his behavior has to be defended by every supporter says
it all…..the Glazers would veto Winston as a choice….it is a non-starter.
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:25 pm
Winston maybe the better qb prospect, but he’s to much of a liability. I’d say draft Mariota or a linemen. A linemen might not be a bad first round pick considering how bad they were this season. Draft a qb in the second round. Without a solid front line it dosent matter who’s playing qb.
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:27 pm
@Jeremy
You do mean trade down and draft a linemen….you don’t prepose using the #1 pick for one?
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:29 pm
Trading down and getting some more picks could be a great idea. A lot of holes to file.
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:30 pm
hey bob…
tldr
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:30 pm
Err to fill
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:30 pm
@Loggedontosay,
Here’s what I wrote
——————————-
Joe and the rest of you ignorant, jock sniffing, know-nothing Winston lovers;
You FSU supporting, Bucs fans obviously don’t know sh’t about football outside your insular little worlds.
Let me spell it out for you:::
Professional football teams are BILLION dollar companies. The quarterback is the top of the pyramid of your personnel. Not just as a leader and player, but also as the face of your franchise.
And you people think Jameis Winston is going to be picked before Mariota? LOLOLOLOL…….
Jameis Winston will NEVER be picked before Mariota.
Never.
Why? Aside from the rape allegation, the petty theft, the BB gun shooting, the obscenity yelling…have you ever heard that dumbass talk? He can barely put 5 words together that make sense. Here’s a direct quote from his post Rose Bowl presser:::
“We turned the ball over a lot. We beat ourselF. Just be real with yourselF right now. We beat ourselF.”
And he’s gonna be the face of a billion $ franchise?
You know, I could mention the stats…especially the fact that Mariota has the 2nd highest QBR in college football HISTORY. Or I could mention his outrageously good completion %. (Over 68%) Or that in all of college football history, only a handful of quarterbacks have thrown for more career touchdowns than Mariota (who has come close to this record in only 3 years!)
But there really is only 1 stat that slaps you knuckleheads in the face:::
Mariota has thrown less interceptions in 3 YEARS TOTAL, than Winston has thrown just this year alone. (13 vs 18)
And he’s accomplished that with 3 star recruits, not 5 stars. He’s done that with a makeshift offensive line, a depleted receiving corps.
Anyway, why are low interceptions important?
Because what that tells me is he is making the Right Decisions most of the time.
And DECISION MAKING IS ABSOLUTELY THE #1 TRAIT YOU WANT IN A QUARTERBACK.
If you don’t agree with that statement, you don’t know sh’t about football.
Escapability? Look at how slow Peyton Manning is.
Big Arm? Anyone ever see Joe Montana or Fran Tarkenton earn a living? They didn’t have cannons for arms.
Loud leader? Aaron Rodgers leads like Mariota–let’s his play do the talking.
You see, it’s decision making that defines excellence.
Everyone of the aforementioned QB’s had DIFFERENT physical traits, but they were/are all excellent decision makers.
And THAT trait is what sets Mariota ahead of Winston. And I’m not just talking about Winston’s 18 interceptions this year or his off-field decision making (horrible as we know), I’ve NEVER seen a QB argue with his coach…during the Rose Bowl, for cripes sake!!..like Winston. (During the game, Jimbo threatened to bench him if he didn’t get his behavior under control) He’s done that several times over his college career. Not only is that immaturity, but that’s piss poor decision making.
And the 2nd most important trait?
MASTERY OF THE PLAYBOOK.
If you haven’t watched Mariota throughout his career, then you don’t realize that there just isn’t anyone who knows his offense backwards and forwards like him. Even for 1st time viewers during the Rose Bowl, Mariota’s mastery of the offense should have been readily apparent. What that tells me is he has put in the time and effort MENTALLY to be great. And if you listen to Scott Frost (Oregon’s offensive coordinator), that–more than his amazing physical tools–is what makes him the best player in college football and worthy of a #1 pick.
You say he’s a “system QB”. Yeah. So was every former college QB. Aaron Rodgers ran Cal’s west coast spread with option elements. Look at him now. Peyton Manning is on another world with his mastery of Denver’s offense. That’s what makes him so good. But did Tennessee ask that of him when he was there? Hell no!!
Same thing applies to Drew Brees and Purdue. Or Tom Brady at Michigan. They played in different college offenses than they presently do in the pros. But they MASTERED their college offenses. And they have mastered their different pro offenses.
My point is—who gives a sh’t if someone says Jameis could step into a pro offense. That actually means something if Jameis is playing ONE game for an NFL team right now.
But if I want a kid with the mental acuity to master my pro offense, I’m taking Mariota every day of the week.
(Did I mention that Mariota graduated with a physical science degree in 3 years?! The kid is smart.)
Don’t think mastery of the playbook is important for a QB draft choice?
Here’s the flip side::: Johnny Manziel. Ya think Cleveland’s front office is regretting that 1st round pick? You better believe they are! They sit that dumbass on the bench for most of the season. And when Hoyer gets hurt, Manziel is the next man up. Cleveland finds out Johnny Boy doesn’t know the plays. Read Peter King. Apparently, the Browns had to throw out 2/3rds of the offensive playbook for Manziel’s starts. Even after having the playbook since last April, he just didn’t know the plays.
Manziel made a DECISION not to know the play book. And instead, he has a MASTERY of doing keg stands with his homies.
Anyway, long story short.
There really is no doubt about what’s going to happen here. Mariota is the consensus #1 pick. (And to Matt, who claims that NFL teams have Winston #1 on their boards and Mariota at #5 or #6, you sir, are an ignorant dumbass who exposed himself to this entire board with that statement.)
Whether or not Tampa Bay keeps or trades the Mariota pick is up for debate.
But nothing else really is.
And if you people can’t see that, you really DON’T deserve Mariota.
One last thing::
Character, character, character.
=Mariota.
Who’d ya think I was going to say? Winston? Lolololol
End of discussion.
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:31 pm
When you are 2-14 and have the 1st overall pick in the draft, you have to take somebody that you think is the closest to a 100% sure thing, which I don’t think either one of these QB’s are. You don’t just “roll the dice” hoping for the best. I personally think the Bucs will trade that pick if they can and pick up a few more picks
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:34 pm
the bucs were gonna trade up for a qb before they tanked the second half vs saints. now with the #1 overall, why would they trade down? they WILL take a qb. the iggles would have to pay a ton to move from 20…ain’t happening.
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:36 pm
bob, every time you post i think you missed your meds…
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:36 pm
DB55 Says:
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:34 pm
Joe,
Is CJ mosley playing with a cast on his hand? Say it isnt so. Aren’t the Ravens afraid he’ll hurt himself further? A rookie playing with a broken hand? Nahhh, that CANT be.
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:39 pm
@Skyline
That BucsNation article is very good. Everyone here should read it. I liked this, among other things:
“Spread quarterbacks never succeed? Well, Drew Brees was a spread quarterback. Cam Newton seems to be doing okay. Colin Kaepernick isn’t great but he’s certainly not terrible. And I know plenty of pro-style QBs who failed miserably. Or did you mean read-option quarterbacks? So, again, Cam Newton’s doing fine. Russell Wilson runs a ton of read-option. RG3 had a spectacularly successful rookie season.”
Good stuff. And objective.
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:39 pm
Let’s face it folks….neither one of these guys is Luck…..and look what a mistake Wash apparently made with RG3…..
The safest thing would be to trade the pick….and we know it is very tradeable….we have lots of needs…..
We could actually probably trade down twice in the first round…….
But…the way we have proceeded with Glennon and the lack of really good FA choices leads me to believe that we made a decision to go with QB in this draft.
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:41 pm
as i posted in the other thread…
from walter football dated Dec. 30
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Marcus Mariota, QB, Oregon
The Buccaneers don’t have to trade up anymore, as they have control of the top selection. ***I know for a fact that Tampa was more than willing to move up for a quarterback, but that’s not necessary now that the Buccaneers are projected to have the first-overall pick. Thus, all speculation of them moving down is pretty pointless.***
It’s not a matter of what position Tampa addresses, but rather which quarterback it takes. It’s obviously between Marcus Mariota and Jameis Winston, but the former is the favorite because he’s much cleaner off the field. It would be nice if the Buccaneers didn’t have to worry about Winston going nuts in Ybor or at Mons Venus. The latter would have to rename itself Mons Jameis after Winston puts the owners’ kids through college.
(emphasis, mine)
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:42 pm
also, it is funny reading iggles’ fans’ desire for mariota and what it would take for a trade…
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:43 pm
Bonzai, that is what I liked about it as well. Bucs Nation has some good objective articles on both QBs. Good reads all alike.
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:45 pm
Lurker, i agree that a QB will probably be drafted. I also agree that Eagles do not trade up to get Mariota. Way to much to give and Chip may not be there next season. Now if he were to go to Atlanta or Oakland then that scenario becomes more likely.
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:46 pm
Does anyone think Jason Licht will get any phone calls?
And do you think one of the questions asked of all of the many OC candidates will be “Which one of the two QB would you pick & why?”
Also…..”what are your thoughts on Mike Glennon?”
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:52 pm
Frankly, I don’t envision Licht being able to work a good trade.
If he did, though, I would trade the first to the Raiders for their first and Carr. We’d still have a high first rounder and I love Car.
But thats just me, I guess.
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:53 pm
April 30th can’t get here fast enough..
January 3rd, 2015 at 11:01 pm
@Bonzai
I don’t think Licht will be the one making the calls….”Just say no” will probably be his instructions from the Glazers….
January 3rd, 2015 at 11:04 pm
Skyline Crew for Mariota or Winston Says:
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:10 pm
Loggedontosay, you made no allegations to me. I stated an opinion of what I saw from Winston. Then you attacked me saying I couldn’t think. That is why I asked if you were 12. Then you made a racist comment about the rape allegations. You don’t act like a very mature person on these boards. You prefer to attack people versus having a debate or even discussing opinions. If it doesn’t match your opinion then in your eyes that person is stupid.
Another diversion!
January 3rd, 2015 at 11:07 pm
@ Loggedontosay
Are you Pablo?
January 4th, 2015 at 12:21 am
Here’s a crazy thought. With the Steelers losing again in the playoffs what if their HC is fired. Think we could get him? Or would he only do HC gigs. I’m sure Oakland and Atlanta would want him as well. Or Buffalo.
January 4th, 2015 at 12:40 am
If all was equal off the field, and the pick was based solely on who would be a better QB on Sunday’s for the Buccaneers, it takes a special kind of irrational to say Mariota should be the pick. Acting the way Jameis has acted off the field ABSOLUTELY warrants concern. No doubt about it. But to hear people say that Mariota is the better on field prospect when it comes to being a future NFL QB absolutely blows my mind.
January 4th, 2015 at 12:42 am
Just curious but when had jameis winston have a issue or even to have been reported to be in a strip club? All these comments are making crap up. We’ll guess what mariota hot a speeding ticket why don’t we just start saying stuff like he is going to get involved in a panzi scheme. See I make make stuff up about him as well. Complete garbage stop make crap up and stick to who the best player is. Oh you don’t want to do that because you all know the truth and that is in 10 years mariota is going to be after thought in the history of the league.
January 4th, 2015 at 12:48 am
Everyone knows who the best player is:::: Mariota
January 4th, 2015 at 12:54 am
Mariota very might well be the better college player. Unfortunately he doesn’t get to face the secondaries of Colorado and Washington State on a weekly basis in the NFL.
January 4th, 2015 at 1:12 am
Mariota doesn’t throw with anticipation, thats much needed in the nfl that’s 1 of how man reasons josh freeman never got better
January 4th, 2015 at 1:13 am
Billy Bob,
That epic comment above seriously might be the Greatest comment in JoeBucsfan history. Kudos to u! I agree wholeheartedly and Idk how any honest and sane person could ever try to argue with any aspect of what you said. I think that’s why they have to pretend they didn’t read it…. Idk who you are, but you are awesome. Thank you for the profound and absolute wisdom.
January 4th, 2015 at 1:13 am
@Billybob.. You’re right on.. You my sir have become my favorite poster. Thanks for the insight and good analysis..
January 4th, 2015 at 1:26 am
@Billy Bob
Do I know you? You sound just like you could be my doppelganger?
Right On Man!!
Finally a voice of reason!
January 4th, 2015 at 1:44 am
Nice post Billy Bob.
While Winston has a better skill set compared to Johnny Manziel, the off the field issues for both players trouble me. The Bucs escaped drafting what is likely to be a bust for the ages (Manziel) in a deep draft and landed his far superior teammate Evans, so that worked out in 2014.
For 2015, barring a catastrophic injury leading up to the draft, the Bucs need to swing for the fences and draft Marcus Mariotta. If Marcus is the pick, I’d expect a similar situation when Russell Wilson was selected; ease him into the offense during camp, and if he lights it up during the preseason and outplays McCown/Glennon/whoever is the other Bucs QB at that time, then you put him in to start the season. I just really think this kid could be something special and a true superstar for the Bucs.
If the Bucs end up picking Winston, I won’t be devastated, but if just makes sense for Tampa to pick Mariotta if he declares for the draft. You don’t tank that Saints game to pick any other position outside of QB, it just wouldn’t make sense.
January 4th, 2015 at 1:59 am
Manziel’s off the field concerns are much much much different than Winston’s. Stop clumping the two together. Manziel is a partier who’d rather get wasted with some lady friends than study his playbook. Winston has his faults, don’t get me wrong, but by all accounts he’s not a partier. You hand Johnny millions; you get what you’ve seen so far. You hand Jameis millions; I get the impression he goes out and buys a tricked out house and shoots Nerf bullets (or BBs….) around and gets a tricked out arcade or something lol. The immaturity he shows may lead to problems down the road, nobody truly knows, but the Manziel comparisons don’t really make a lot of sense.
January 4th, 2015 at 3:06 am
what do you mean pretend to not read it?
i don’t come to jbf to read a diatribe from some looney off his meds! all this person does is rant and call people names who don’t agree with his opinion.
and it is funny how if you agree with him/her, they are correct, right on, and greatest post…lmfao
get real. have you even been here long enough? any post that rambles on and calls people idiots, stupid, morons, etc. is not the greatest anything, except loser.
January 4th, 2015 at 9:57 am
Here’s an article I found to be a good read on this debate. I am all in for Winston but it wouldn’t be the end of the world if they go Mariota who I like also. I just think Winston affords us the best opportunity for a quick turnaround; this is especially important for Lovie due to the fact if he pick Mariota; there is a chance he would not be around to see his development.
Anyway here is the article……..enjoy
http://www.bucsnation.com/2015/1/3/7467293/building-a-case-for-jameis-winston
January 4th, 2015 at 10:25 am
Thanks, Veejay, but this is not a message board. Joe likes to keep his readers here. –Joe
January 4th, 2015 at 2:04 pm
Ndog, I think part of concern is Winston’s immature personality on the field too. I haven’t watched him a lot and consider him a great talent but seeing the assistant coach having to baby sit him on the sidelines isn’t good. Reminded me of dez Bryant a lil. You don’t want your qb/leader unraveling or yelling at coaches or players. You want him to get after a player in practice or inspire his teammates during game. But having an assistant having to calm him down shows me he’s still a couple years away. I think he could use another year at fsu. That said I think he can be a good nfl qb. But he is risky right now..
January 4th, 2015 at 4:24 pm
Lovie is not bringing Winston here, right or wrong, period. If he were more mature, it would be a no-brainer, but he’s not. Mariota will not be “Aaron Rodgers”, because he will not be holding the clipboard for a Favre. He will sit behind some terrible QB for probably six games, be forced out there, and look like an above-average rookie. He will not be “Russell Wilson”, because he will not be playing for a competent organization.