Don’t Need A Quarterback, Huh?
December 15th, 2014
Joe knows Bucs fans like to hug onto this notion that defense wins championships like a child cuddles a teddy bear.
That notion is about as outdated as Latin.
Joe is convinced way too many Bucs fans would be just fine if the Bucs ran a wishbone offense with Tim Tebow and to hell with the forward pass. Just go full blast Woody Hayes.
This notion that you don’t need a quarterback can’t be any further from the truth. The facts are right in front of your eyes, displayed on the field of play whenever this year’s Bucs squad trots out to play. John Breech of CBSSports.com provides the evidence.
This season has turned into one giant ‘What if’ for the Buccaneers. The loss to Carolina was the eighth time this season that Tampa Bay has lost by one score or less. Four of those eight have come by five or less points.
Think about that. Eight freaking losses by one score. EIGHT! They’d be in the playoffs if they won six of those games.
Yet Lovie is like Capt. Edward Smith, hitching his tenure to a grotesque turnover machine who should be thankful he has an NFL gig the way he plays so recklessly with the football.
Icebergs be damned!
Imagine if the Bucs just had an average quarterback, a guy who could lead the team late in the game on a drive that consists of 30 yards or longer?
Yet to hear too many Bucs fans, the Bucs don’t need a quarterback.
Hello, wishbone.
December 15th, 2014 at 4:04 pm
Uhm, Seattle says hello. The greatest qb ever vs the legion of doom. Doom wins.
December 15th, 2014 at 4:05 pm
@Joe – it sounds like you’re the one holding your savior QB teddy bear a little too closely. There were a number of games that were lost on the back of poor special teams play, poor defense early on, horrific penalties, and an over reliance on the pass. None of those, save for the last which could be argued to a certain degree, had anything to do with the QB.
December 15th, 2014 at 4:06 pm
5 points or less?
2 more FG per game or 2 less penalties per game. Either or.
December 15th, 2014 at 4:06 pm
@DB55 – and doesn’t just win. Thoroughly dominates. To the point that it was embarrassing
December 15th, 2014 at 4:06 pm
Doesn’t matter who you put back there with this O line. Mccown is probably average… like Kyle orton. The O line is so terrible, we don’t have a chance and it limits play calling too. We have 2 or 3 starters that wouldn’t even be on another nfl roster.
December 15th, 2014 at 4:07 pm
Maybe we just trade our pick for Derrick Andersen?
December 15th, 2014 at 4:12 pm
Losing to Derek Anderson twice and Austin Davis had nothing to do with the offense. They carved up Lovie’s D. Team had the lead in the 4th against Minny and New Orleans. Cincy game had the ginger sick so who knows how that game goes with him fully healthy. Cleveland had the lead too but Verner got torched by some Gabriel guy, and Hoyer had 300 yards passing.
These have been team losses. A bad team that finds ways to lose, generally through poor discipline or poor play. This why those who think a QB solves everything are seriously out to lunch.
December 15th, 2014 at 4:13 pm
Mariotta.
December 15th, 2014 at 4:16 pm
Where are these idiots you talk about,…….lets see if one steps up…..I don’t think there really is anyone who wouldn’t want Rogers, Manning, Brees or Brady.
I think some of what Joe is hearing is a desire to build in the trenches first….
There have been teams with great defenses winning the SB with (other than Francise) QBs……The Bucs, Ravens come to mind.
My preference is to draft Mariota (if possible)…..don’t trade up, however. Its a gamble…but how many times do you get the #1 pick?
December 15th, 2014 at 4:18 pm
There is plenty of blame to go around for this year’s disaster from the coaching staff on down. Including in fairness some bad breaks like losing the OC right before the season. ASF hasn’t been healthy all year. I can’t wait to see him when he’s really ready.
But what I noticed is that intangible that I can’t clearly explain. It’s like the Supreme Court Justice who couldn’t define pornography but claimed he new it when he saw it.
I could see clearly this year that this team was simply a loser. They have been mentally weak all year long. They’ve been totally unprepared…timeouts to start the second half…12 men on the field have NOTHING to do with OL or QB play or how badly our defense has sucked at times.
Sometimes people can look at some of these games individually and say…OH what a bad break. But when it happens as often as it did this year it’s not a bad break, it a losing team finding a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Whether it’s a dropped INT, and roughing the passer to negate an Int…and fumble to start OT after a first down catch…it just goes on and on.
This team was rotten. Now can Lovie change the culture before next year? Can we turn undisciplined losers into winners? Tune in next year.
December 15th, 2014 at 4:21 pm
BucRightOff…
“These have been team losses. A bad team that finds ways to lose, generally through poor discipline or poor play. This why those who think a QB solves everything are seriously out to lunch.”
—————————
Pour me one of whatever you are having.
This team has waterfront property on sh!ts creek. No canoe, no paddle. Consider that the other bottom feeders like Oakland and Jacksonville both drafted QB’s last season while Lovie brings in McCown.
QB. Nothing less with the first pick.
December 15th, 2014 at 4:24 pm
@Biff – what exactly was the point you were trying to convey with that last post? You’re saying we need a QB because two of the teams that are vying with us for the top pick this year took a QB last year? Wouldn’t the idea of a savior QB mean that we wouldn’t be drafting this high again? You’re sort of making our point for us….
December 15th, 2014 at 4:26 pm
Better yet, hire Rich Darlington, HC at Apopka H.S. and let him do his magic with his single-wing offense! Crazy? So are the Glazers.
December 15th, 2014 at 4:31 pm
And Carr looks mediocre at best (he only need 57 pass attempts to get 220 yards yesterday…) and Bortles has been awful all year. Drafting a QB is exactly that: Drafting a QB: Drafting a QB and acting like he’s a saviour? Fools gold.
December 15th, 2014 at 4:31 pm
I don’t know who’s posts you are reading, but I do not remember ANYONE saying we DON’T need a QB. EVERYONE would agree that the Bucs need to replace, at least, one of the current QBs.
I’m not one who believes the Buccaneers don’t need a QB. I AM one who believes he doesn’t need to be the second coming of Peyton Manning. Exactly how much did Brees, Ryan, and Newton raise the level of play around them this year? One of them will go to the playoffs… kicking and screaming all the way.
Many, in here, want an instant savior, and here’s their problem…
Part of interview with Mel Kiper Jr. By Rich Cimini | ESPNNewYork.com
{ There are no franchise quarterbacks in the coming NFL draft, according to ESPN draft analyst Mel Kiper Jr.—
Kiper stressed the importance of patience, saying the teams that draft Mariota and Winston would be wise to bring them along slowly, a la Aaron Rodgers with the Green Bay Packers.—
“There is really no franchise quarterback in this draft, even though Mariota could go No. 1,” Kiper said. “He’s not Andrew Luck. He’s not in that elite of elite category. Could he be really good? If you’re patient with him, if you wait and let him evolve, and we don’t write him off as a bust early on, then you’re fine.” }
And Kiper is certainly not the only one who believes there is no ‘franchise’ quality QB in this draft.
Buccaneer fans are too impatient to give a third-round ‘project’ time to evolve. Why would they be any less patient with a first-round, can’t miss, franchise-saving QB?
Spending the first pick of the draft for a QB who can’t win with this team would put Lovie in a bad position.
Spending the first pick of the draft for a QB who holds a clipboard would put Lovie in a bad position.
Either way you look at it, using that first pick for a QB could give Lovie plenty of time to re-model his basement into an actual coaching-cave.
This team could be 8-8 if the O-line was able to develop a running game… even with McCown. OK, maybe not McCown, but certainly Glennon. And if McCown is gone, that would mean that Lovie fell in love with another second-chance veteran. And who knows, Glennon may go and we find that Kafka is a diamond-in-the-rough.
I would like to see the Bucs win their last two games because I enjoy watching the Bucs win. Whatever happens, happens.
With the sixth/seventh pick, there would certainly be less pressure on Lovie to ‘turn things around’ next year. With a first-round, can’t miss, franchise-saving QB, the Glazers’ patience would be greatly shortened.
If there is not a QB that Lovie believes can win immediately (assuming he has the #1 pick), he certainly won’t put his job on the line. He’ll do the smart thing and trade down.
December 15th, 2014 at 4:33 pm
Trade down and fill some holes. Draft Bryce Petty later. Play Glennon with Bryce behind him and McCown as the QB coach.
December 15th, 2014 at 4:45 pm
Mariotta a great person, Tebow a great person. Mariotta a Heisman winner, Tebow a Heisman winner. Mariotta a one-read inaccurate Pass QB, Tebow a one-read inacurate pass QB. Let’s trade back get multiple picks, get a Tebow/Kapernick/RGII for nothing, to do the same thing as Mariotta without costing us a 1st round pick and our overall future. Let’s build it like Seattle, Arizona and St. Louis, since our team is already stronger on defense and has a defensive-minded Head Coach running the team already. If we get close to being playoff or Superbowl competitve again, we can always go for a another high round QB or QB free agent. We can then also hire a new Offensinve minded head coach if we need to put us over the top again; sound like familiar road map/history Buc fans???
December 15th, 2014 at 4:51 pm
You trade down types are wearing me out. Please stop the lunacy.
December 15th, 2014 at 5:06 pm
JTHV …I just think it’s shear lunacy that they expect fans to buy tickets next season by “trading down”.
If Lovie trades down, it might be a good idea, but no one is going to the games right now. Trade down and pick up a few O-linemen. I’m sure the switchboards at the ticket office at One Buc will light up like crazy over those O-lineman. (pure sarcasm of course)
Shear lunacy I tell ya. Shear lunacy.
It better be Mariota or Winston or this fan is putting them on notice from draft on. If they pass on 1 of those 2 and both go on to have great careers for other teams while ours still sucks. Then I’m done with this team for the rest of my life. So they’ll be on notice with me.
Draft one or the other and I’ll buy season tickets.
December 15th, 2014 at 5:16 pm
@87forjameisormariota – It’s a matter of when you want the tickets to be bought. Do you want people to buy tickets for the first games of the season because they’re excited and then they fall off because they see that the team hasn’t actually gotten better or do you want them to buy tickets at the end of the year because we’re winning? Do you want a name or do you want success? It’s not a guarantee that you’ll succeed by stocking up draft picks (see Minnesota and St Louis) but it’s a better chance than you have by pushing your chips in on one of these guys that have big question marks.
December 15th, 2014 at 5:26 pm
@Atlantabuc, have you watched Mariota at all. I’m not saying he’s a can’t miss qb, but as far as you saying he is inaccurate is complete hogwash. 68% completion percentage, 38 touchdowns to 2 interceptions, if you think that is inaccurate you may have some things to learn. Mariota wil need time to develop, but I think he would be worth it.
December 15th, 2014 at 5:30 pm
I think the Bucs have lost more games than that by one score. A new OC and QB should be worth at least 8 points a game and many more wins.
December 15th, 2014 at 6:16 pm
pick #1 OT
pick #2 OT
pick #3 OT
and I’m being serious, that’s how bad we need star quality O-lineman. If anyone who thinks we’re going to find them in FA hasn’t learned a lesson this year will be in for another disappointment. Build a star studded O-line that will play together for awhile and everything else will fall right into place. I promise
December 15th, 2014 at 6:25 pm
Sometimes, the obvious answer is the correct one.
In the 2013 preseason, Josh Freeman and the offense looked awful. We were told that once the season started, everything would be fine. The offense looked just as bad in the first (Jets) game as it did in preseason.
In the 2014 preseason, we fans saw that the OL was a disaster. Sure enough, there was the hurried trade for Mankins and even with that the line has been, in fact, dreadful.
My point is that it’s obvious we need a decent quarterback. Good running games only matter if they let the QB bomb away and score points from a distance. I’m not sure my Buc fan-dom could survive the team passing on Mariota and Winston if one is available.
December 15th, 2014 at 6:59 pm
Im a true believer in solid defense and that defense wins games, but it sure would be nice to be able to pad a lead now and then. How about this? Instead of watching our tired ass defense stagger out with hands on hips and try to protect a 4 point lead in the 4th quarter, we have an offense that scores points instead of going 3 and out or the dreaded McCown turn over that gives our opponent a short field. How bout that? A potent offense that is an actual threat to the other team.
I can only imagine……
December 15th, 2014 at 7:11 pm
Drafting Peat or Scheriff would help our franchise much more than Marriota or Winston.
December 15th, 2014 at 7:22 pm
I am becoming more convinced every day that we need to trade the pick and load up on as many picks as possible. Neither of the QBs can come on to this team as currently constructed and survive
December 15th, 2014 at 7:32 pm
So let’s see if I have the logic right. Brees, Ryan, and Newton are all great or very good QBs. Teams need great or very good QBs to win. Hence Saints, Falcons, and Panthers are winning because of their QBs right? Oops
December 15th, 2014 at 7:39 pm
one or the other, you better pick one lovie or your days in tampa are done, because this fanbase and franchise needs it. there is no ands, ifs or buts about it. the fans are disillusioned, and are tired of this, ok we missed on freeman, who knew he would be a nutcase, he had a shot at one time to be a damn good and serviceable QB, and did fine the 10-6 year. till he melted down, but that does not mean you don’t get up to the plate and swing again. we need a face of the franchise. which would energize the city and sell tickets. whether that be mariotta or Winston, build around their skill set and the fans will be patient, not only that it would give us nationwide credibility and relevancy. take the pick man up and live with it. whats the worse that can happen, we go 0-16 we aint much better now.
December 15th, 2014 at 8:30 pm
“You trade down types are wearing me out. Please stop the lunacy.”
So please post the records of all the Heisman Trophy winners and tell us we’re insane.
The well known “Heisman jinx” is worst of all for QB’s. Because they come to teams with rotten OL’s, weak receivers, and a defense that can’t hold a lead or close out a contest up for grabs. Sound familiar.
I’m not against Mariota or Jameis but it’s not my preferred choice. If things don’t fall into place perfectly next year the howling will be incessant.
Then again drafting Jameis or Marcus #1 immediately buys Lovie another year. He’ll get next year to develop the QB and he has a built in excuse for losing insuring a third season for Lovie.
December 15th, 2014 at 9:13 pm
You can’t point to Seattle. Russell Wilson is a top 5 QB imho.
Defense does win championships more often than offense. But for either to win, the other side of the ball has to be decent. So don’t point to Arizona. You can’t be one dimensional, ask Buddy Ryan’s Eagles.
December 16th, 2014 at 12:27 am
Funny thing is you go on boards for Jets, Titans, Texans, Skins and all of those fans (and I’m sure ownership) wish they were in our position, not to trade down for an offensive linemen but to draft one of the top 2 QB’s. While I will admit there is still a lot of homework to be done on potential draft picks, if you have a need (QB) and are in a position to take care of that need with the best player available, you don’t trade down to get another potentially less impactful player (o-line) along with additional picks (which aren’t a bad thing) only to draft another Quarterback that rates lower than the need you could have grabbed at #1. I personally want Mariota, some of the things I have seen from Winston on the field (decision making in 1st half) scare me a little. While he may mature and be a model citizen over time I don’t see Lovie or the Glazers wanting to deal with negative media attention he would garner. Just because you draft a guy does not mean he needs to start right away, even if he (hopefully Mariota) sits his first year, you can allow the offensive line you roll out on the field (draft picks, possibly free agents) to gel and you can go o-line in the following years draft. Look at the cowboys they have had Romo as their franchise QB for a few years now and have just recently surrounded him with offensive linemen and they didn’t need a high pick to trade down and get them, and some of them were not even drafted in the 1st round. So no you do not need to fix an oline before you get a QB you look at your position and get whoever makes the biggest impact, because it may be years before you get in that position again.
December 16th, 2014 at 2:56 am
I don’t mean to discredit the editors of this great website, but I seem to recall leading up to the 2014 draft it was more than suggested on here that the Bucs should draft one Johnny Manziel. That’s not looking like a great decision for the Browns thus far.
Now, I’m no Rockstar GM, however I would like to see the Bucs use their top picks on top O-linemen or top D-linemen; studs at the top of their positions. Looking at the turnaround the Cowboys have done this season is based mostly on investing top draft picks on their O-line. While Marcus Mariota (I doubt Winston has the maturity to amount to anything) may be a good QB, few expert scouts believe he has “can’t miss talent.” He has been compared to having a below average arm and being a system QB. With this franchise’s revolving door of head coaches I doubt he will have the luxury of learning under 1 system, 1 Offensive Coordinator for the majority of his career or even thru the first 5 years of his career if he’s drafted here.
Bottom line, unless the QB prospect is an Andrew Luck-type talent, I think the team would be best suited to fill other holes than just a QB on a talent deficient team that has been ranked for most of the season (yes the defense is playing better lately) at the bottom of the league in both offensive and defensive categories.
December 16th, 2014 at 4:10 am
Hell, at least woody knew how to stop them even if he had to do it himself from the sidelines. Lovey just keeps his usual look and spews his usual spit after the lose.
December 16th, 2014 at 8:53 am
Love all the trade down guys. You know which teams might be willing to trade with the Bucs? Teams in need of a QB! Hmmm, thank god the Bucs have no need at that position! The Bucs can’t put up 17 points with the two back ups we currently have. Other than Tackles good to great offensive linemen can be had in later rounds and sometimes even as undrafted free agents. Potential franchise QBs go first overall. I don’t want them to give away their winning lottery ticket so the Bucs can take a guard with the 9th overall pick. I want some hope for the future. If they trade down and draft an offensive linemen first I won’t attend a single game next year. I will just watch them lose 23-10 each week on TV!
December 16th, 2014 at 9:51 am
BucFan4Life: good point: 3 times this season the Bucs scored more than 17. If they could have put up 20 to 23 points a game it is likely that the Bucs would have won at least 4 of the 8 games they lost by less than one score and would be in the playoff hunt, albeit as a 6-8 or 7-7 club…. Yes a qb is needed but its still to be determined if this class of qbs will have that special talent that can be the Bucs leader for the next 10 to 12 seasons; its not even certain that Winston and Mariota will come out this year, all things point to them going NFL but its not set in stone. If the Bucs are offered a trade package like the Rams got for the RG3 pick, it will be tough for the Bucs to turn that down. Could someone make an offer like that? I don’t know maybe Dan Snyder is stupid enough to repeat his error, maybe the Jets decide that Geno really is not the man after they fire their GM and coaching staff, perhaps the Giants want a franchise QB to replace an aging Eli, who knows???? Maybe the Bucs can finangle a 2nd rounder from the Titans to simply swap 1st round picks and the Bucs take the 2nd qb available, a lot of things can happen. Heck, I do know the Bucs need help in the trenches, I do not want to see a rookie Bucs quarterback get sacked EIGHT times like Bortles was banged around on Sunday for the Jags, then us fans will just have another demoralized shellshocked player like Carr was for the Texans….. This team just has too many holes to fill in one draft, we have to thank a lot of people at One Buc Place who allowed it to get this bad over the past 5 or 6 seasons….
December 16th, 2014 at 10:28 am
Huh, you know who didn’t turn it over, so much so that his team made the playoffs with the 24th ranked defense? Tebow! Even though his team went 4-12 & was 1-4 before he was put in. Who had a better passer rating in Josh McDaniels’ offense than the quasi-Wishbone John Fox put him in. Who hasn’t gotten a start since starting 2 playoff games. McCown & Glennon? REALLY?
December 16th, 2014 at 10:38 am
SMH. You think that a rookie QB is going to magically score more points.
If the Bucs had a better (just average) O-line, they would have run the ball better. That means they would have held the ball longer. That means they would have kept the opposing offense off the field and at the same time would have scored more. Just ONE TD per game, and the Bucs would an iron-clad grip on the division title… even with McCown (as long as they mostly ran the ball-LOL). The game is won/lost in the trenches. If Denver had been able to keep the Seahawk’s defense out of their backfield, Manning would have another ring. Not because Manning is great, but because he would have had TIME to be great.
December 16th, 2014 at 12:41 pm
Hawk this rebuild will take several years. They need to replace and upgrade basically at 16 or 17 positions. This will not be fixed with one draft. I don’t care if the rookie doesn’t play a down next year. We have a chance to take a QB of our choice this year and that may not happen again. Time to bring one in and simply groom him for the future if need be.