Yesterday, Today And Tomorrow
December 8th, 2014
Joe takes his weekly Monday look at the state of the Bucs, and more.
With the exception of Mike Evans, Joe cannot think of anything good about the Bucs offense. It is really, really bad. Vincent Jackson is OK, but then it drops off.
Bobby Rainey has his moments. Doug Martin is finally starting to learn to keep his head up and look for room. After that, pppffft.
And to think the Bucs actually have the gall to try to coerce innocent football fans in the Tampa Bay area to pay for this tripe?
Of course, everyone is fixated on the quarterback position for next year. It cannot be Josh McCown. It cannot be. If Lovie brings McCown back as a starter for any reason other than as a bridge so a rookie quarterback can get his feet wet, then Lovie needs an intervention. Simple as that.
But what about the offensive line? That has to be overhauled (again). Problem is, who gets the boot?
On principle, Anthony Collins (and defensively, Michael Johnson) should be run. Problem is, if the Bucs finish with the No. 1 overall pick, will Lovie have the freedom to admit he made major mistakes in free agency without it biting him in the rear end? And if Lovie swung and missed in free agency so terribly (Clinton McDonald and Alterraun Verner are exceptions) can Lovie he trusted to rebuild the offensive line with Team Glazer’s checkbook (again)?
Not sure how much longer the Bucs can deal with Evan Dietrich-Smith, either. When he was signed, Joe violated a cardinal sin of football in praising the signing: Moral of the story is, never sign a guy that Ted Thompson lets walk away for peanuts. Former Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik got burned by that, too, with The Great Lumpkin.
Let’s hope the second time around is a charm for building a front line.
Let’s also remember that once George Warhop left Cleveland, all of a sudden the Browns offensive line got good. Coincidence?
What a trainwreck this offense is. It’s to the point that parents who let their children watch Bucs games can be jailed for child abuse.
Where art thou, Greg Schiano?
Ch… Ch… Ch… Changes
Just what changes are we going to see in a few weeks? Surely massive ones are coming to the offense. What about the defense? A right defensive end would be nice. You know, one who can be seen on the field. Pretty sure there will be a new safety, as well.
The defense doesn’t need that many changes. It’s the offense that needs an overhaul.
Offensive coordinator
Here is where things get tricky. Just what decent offensive coordinator is going to want to work with McCown or Mike Glennon? A decent offensive coordinator is either going to want a proven veteran (normally, those types are off the market) or he will want Lovie to draft a quarterback in the first-round.
Then there are the desperate men who will be unemployed shortly and agree to be an offensive coordinator under any circumstance, with any quarterback, with any team. Brace yourselves Bucs fans. Don’t be shocked if you hear the names of Marty Mornhinweg or Mike Tice bounced around as Marcus Arroyo’s successor.
Found An Edge Rusher
The Bucs made a big deal when they signed defensive end Michael Johnson as their first free agent target. That has turned out to be a lead balloon. But Bucs general manager Jason Licht recovered nicely when he found Jacquies Smith on waivers. After racking up two sacks yesterday, Smith now has six sacks and an outside shot to get double-digit sacks.
That was a coup. Problem is, the Bucs need about a dozen more such gifts. Preferably about three offensive linemen.
And speaking of an offensive coordinator, after having to call a timeout before the first play from scrimmage in the second half, someone take Marcus Arroyo’s headset away. Even though the season is lost, enough is enough.
Let Arroyo sit upstairs in the coaches’ box, so long as he can pass a test that he can count to 12. Let Warhop run the offense. It can’t be much worse.
Reckless
Joe believes someone needs to publicly answer for letting Gerald McCoy, the Bucs’ best player, return to the field with a dislocated kneecap. Joe could understand if the Bucs were really in the hunt for a playoff berth, but at 2-10, that was outrageous.
Notice the Bucs prevented Lavonte David from playing in Chicago because they were scared of aggravating his hamstring. GMC had a freaking knee injury, people! Playing on turf, no less!
Letting GMC back into the game bordered on irresponsibility. Props for GMC sucking it up for the team, but it was dumb on the Bucs’ part. Someone should have hid GMC’s helmet.
NFL Thoughts:
Cowboys: They just might be for real. A dismantling of bratty Jay Cutler and the Bears on Thursday night. With Philly’s loss to Seattle, the two teams are tied for the NFC East lead.
Steelers: Just when folks were trying to kick sand into Mike Tomlin’s face about the Steelers playing down to their opponents, boom! The Steelers trounce puking Andy Dalton and the Bengals. You see what a potent offense can do for a team?
Colts: Quickly, Andrew Luck is becoming Joe’s favorite quarterback to watch this side of Aaron Rodgers. Trailing 21-7 in the third quarter, here comes Luck to beat the Browns in Cleveland in the final seconds and, indirectly, may have launched the Johnny Football era. Brian Hoyer just wasn’t any good, hitting on half his passes for 140 yards and two picks. It gives Joe a chill down his spine thinking there is a very real possibility Hoyer comes to Tampa Bay next season. He’ll be a free agent, you know.
Texans: One can make a case for Bill O’Brien Coach of the Year. Yeah, really. How many quarterbacks has he gone through and his first overall pick, Jadeveon Clowney, couldn’t stay out of the tub and is on injured reserve? Yet he continues to find a way to win. Solid, solid job.
Crows: Exposed the Dolphins as phonies. The Crows defense suffocated Miami in the second half, outscoring the Dolphins 21-3 to put to rest Miami’s playoff dreams.
Vikings: This must have been a tough one to watch, with the Jets and Vikings going into overtime. Jarius Wright hauled dump off pass from Teddy Bridgewater and ran 87-yards for the win. Geno Smith’s very first pass attempt was for a pick-six. Brace yourself Bucs fans, Marty Mornhinweg will be looking for an offensive coordinator’s gig soon.
Stinking Panthers: This must have been wild. Cam Newton woke up, started a melee after scoring a touchdown, and totally torched the Saints. Speaking of guys looking for a job, what is the over/under of hours Rob Ryan will have to clean out his office once the Saints’ season is over?
Giants: In what could be Tom Coughlin’s last win, the quarterback that got him two rings once again came through. Eli Manning threw for 260 yards and the Giants snapped a seven-game losing streak. Odell Beckham racked up 150 yards receiving, including a 50-yard touchdown catch.
Lambs: The Lambs shut out the Redskins but what Joe thought was cool was a trolling stunt by Jeff Fisher. Three years ago the Redskins traded a bunch of draft picks to the Lambs for the right to draft RGIII. So what did Fisher do? Every guy he drafted from the picks acquired from the Redskins, Fisher sent out on the field for the coin toss. Awesome!
Cardinals: Arizona really lucked out with a strange fumble call by the refs when Kansas City was easily in field goal range. What the hell has happened to Alex Smith? It’s like the guy cannot throw the ball 20 yards downfield. He’s killing the Chiefs.
Broncos: Peyton Manning yada… yada… yada.
Raiders: The black and silver upset the 49ers and help put the Bucs in position for the No. 1 overall draft pick. Derek Carr looks like a smooth quarterback. Bucs could have easily traded up to get him in the second round.
Seahawks: Man, what a difference Earl Thomas makes. Since he has come back to the Seattle lineup, it’s like Seattle is a new team, all of a sudden forcing turnovers right and left.
Patriots: Tom Brady… blah… blah… blah.
Non-NFL Thoughts
1. So we have the four-team playoff set for college football. Joe is partially happy. Joe hoped the selection committee would value head-to-head and wins. But they didn’t value head-to-head, so Baylor got bumped. But they did value wins, and Florida State got in.
2. Joe must say Alabama is the best team. The way they took apart Missouri was impressive. Then again, that’s the same team that lost to Indiana.
3. Joe has no idea how the Ducks will do against Florida State. They struggled a little with a big boy defense in Michigan State but Michigan State couldn’t score. FSU’s defense is lousy. Loaded with talent on that defense and they are that much of a sieve? Shameful, really.
4. FSU may just give Oregon’s defense its toughest test. Lot of firepower on that team. Jameis Winston is no Jesse Scroggins. Thinking the Ducks win there.
5. Ohio State is odd. They have been totally blasting people with backup quarterbacks the past month. If the Buckeyes upend Bama in their backyard in the Sugar Bowl, Urban Meyer should be coach of the year. Or will Nick Saban give Meyer fake chest pains again?
6. This Blake Sims is some kind of quarterback. Bama fans howled after their spring game how awful he was. He is having a whale of a season. Lane Kiffin has done an outstanding job with him.
7. TCU: You have no one to blame but yourself. You choked away a three-score lead in the fourth quarter against Baylor. That did you in.
8. Baylor, play someone decent in your non-conference schedule. Buffalo and Northwestern State, really? That killed you.
9. Gators fans, the more Joe reads about Jim McElwain, the more it looks like you got a helluva good coach. Might take a year or two for him to get his quarterbacks/offensive linemen up to speed, but look out in the not too distant future.
10. For the first time since Joe moved to Florida, he’s not going to the Outback Bowl. That was a Joe tradition, but with the semifinal games later that day, New Year’s Day, well, Joe isn’t 25 any longer. He can’t go on a 12-hour football (and beer) bender like he used to. In recent years, Joe would get home from the Outback Bowl, take a nap during the Rose Bowl (DVR) and resume for the Orange Bowl. No can do this year. Maybe the Outback Bowl crowd might want to lobby to move the game to New Year’s Eve?
December 8th, 2014 at 9:06 am
The question is, how much pain can the Glazers stand?
This is beyond painful, Lovie came in a turned a 4-12 team into something even worse….
How can anyone stand to go to these games live at RJ?
About 40,000 empty seats would speak volumes to the Glazer lads.
December 8th, 2014 at 9:11 am
At least us Bucs fans will get an up close look at our new QB while he dismantles FSU’s defense….
December 8th, 2014 at 9:20 am
2015 Rose Bowl Oregon Ducks vs. Florida State Seminoles, absolutely the best game of the season for BUCS FANS!
December 8th, 2014 at 9:33 am
Another week, another prediction that FSU will lose. Not just Joe, but, everyone.
I don’t know if they win, but, if I went by everyone’s premature prediction of FSU’s downfall, they would have lost months ago. But you know what, they didn’t. They win despite, seemingly, everyone picking them to lose.
Go Noles.
December 8th, 2014 at 9:37 am
For context of how far the Bucs are from winning anything, the Rams are way far ahead of us and they’re maybe the 8th best team in the conference. So very, very far away from consistent winning football. Drafting a QB and starting him is a death sentence behind that line.
December 8th, 2014 at 9:38 am
In other related bowl news, whoever replaced Miami with NC State at the Bitcoin Bowl at the Trop needs a straight jacket. A first-time bowl sponsor at a venue (a dome nonetheless!) not known for Bowl play, against an in-state opponent in UCF. The game and the atmpsphere woulda been fireworks. The only person happy about it would be the serengetti slinger, Mike Glennon.
December 8th, 2014 at 9:41 am
Joe, how can you put Evans above Vincent Jackson? Evans had what? 45 yards receiving in yesterdays game? 935 total?
Jackson had 159 yards yesterday. He has 861 yards, but more catches.
If anything, I would say the two are running neck and neck.
Jackson is older, so I suppose that gives Evans a bit of an edge. He’ll be here longer.
Still, they are pretty much equal. Right now.
I still say we should trade Jackson at the end of the season though. We can draft or sign a WR cheaper, and by the time our new QB is ready to produce big yards, Jackson will be a bit older.
Now is the time to trade him.
For for those who think a QB will produce instantly, yes, it is possible. But unlikely in the first year. Usually halfway through year 2 or later. You might name three exceptions. I can name 50 to make my case.
And if the QB takes 2 years to get it, then Jackson will be 33, and we’ll get nothing for him. Better to trade him now, get someone to replace him. A tall guy. Someone younger who is willing to put his body on the line.
December 8th, 2014 at 9:48 am
@Bonzai and who exactly is going to trade for the 32 year old with the bloated contract? I say keep him and allow him to continue developing Evans (the guy has his share of immature moments) and to help begin the development of our new play caller. VJax still has plenty o juice left. The o line is the project of the offseason.
December 8th, 2014 at 9:55 am
Keep VJax we are not in cap hell. Murphy is an adequate #3 WR and if ASJ can start to play we are fine there. QB, OL, RB, NCB, FS, DE
And most important an OC with a OL Coach!!!!!!
I like how the defense is shaping up. GMC, LVD, McDonald, Lansannah, banks, Verner, JacquieSmith, Gholston even McDougall. There still work for Redzone D but its coming
December 8th, 2014 at 9:56 am
Evan Dietrich-Smith
Gotta go. I don’t know how his contract would affect us, but if there are plenty of incentives, we can cut him and save money.
Offensive coordinator
I have no idea who we should get. I just know we need someone that specializes in young QBs and can do well in a pass heavy offense.
Gerald McCoy
He has a dislocated knee???? Wow. And he STILL made plays out there. Man is a beast. Time for IR though. Only 3 games left, let him heal up the knee and hand and all things else. He only has 8.5 sacks, but I would rather have him healthy next year, given that he just got his big contract.
December 8th, 2014 at 9:58 am
bucsfaninchina Says
“@Bonzai and who exactly is going to trade for the 32 year old with the bloated contract?”
You never know until you ask around. And what makes you think HE is developing Mike Evans???
December 8th, 2014 at 10:00 am
BucsQcCity Says:
“Keep VJax we are not in cap hell.”
Put the brakes on that assumption, fella. You forget, we just used the last of our cap room to give GMC a contract. You forget we need to give one to David next.
You forget Jason Licht SUCKS at negotiations, so we will not be getting a discount, just like we didn’t with McCoy.
And you forget we also have to replace Baron, Goldson, Koenin and Smith.
December 8th, 2014 at 10:01 am
EDS can be cut without dead cap.
Logan mankins can be cut without dead cap
3M$ dead cap for collins
December 8th, 2014 at 10:05 am
bucrightoff Says
For context of how far the Bucs are from winning anything, the Rams are way far ahead of us and they’re maybe the 8th best team in the conference. So very, very far away from consistent winning football. Drafting a QB and starting him is a death sentence behind that line.”
However, it takes more time to develop a QB than it does to develop offensive linemen, and the chances of having hte #1 pick again are slim. When you have it, you should ALWAYS take the top QB if you need one.
Also, since most franchise offensive linemen are drafted in the second round or later, we can still get our guys. We DO have extra picks and free agency.
Lovie Smith has picked OL in the first round twice in his career, and both were flops. When he picked them later, they had more success.
December 8th, 2014 at 10:09 am
@BucsQcCity
I didn’t know that about Mankins. I would still think hard about it though. He hasn’t looked great this year, but we know he is capable of doing better IF he has better players around him. Right now, he is the only guy on the line with any potential.
Not cutting him would mean one less spot to fill. Considering we need a center Guard and tackle as well…we cannot do it all in one year (we can try, but hard to strike gold on that many). So if he is able to be cut this year, he can the next year too if he doesn’t improve.
Also, consider the OC change coming, a likely QB Coach change, and a likely OL Coach change.
December 8th, 2014 at 10:10 am
i think Licht will be fine. He was placed in a bad position and lead to believe that they were 1 G away of being a contender. Lovie should be held accountable for this buy because of the tedford fiasco we just need to wait for next year to get a true read on the situation. Bucs lost so many close game that it’s hard to think they couldn’t at least won half of them if they had any competent OC calling the shots.
Barron sucked, punter isn’t hard to replace, LVD will get paid I don’t see a problem. Findings of jacquie smith and emergence of lansannah does help us.. Anyway we’ll see.
December 8th, 2014 at 10:12 am
Then again, Mankins is getting up there in years.
December 8th, 2014 at 10:15 am
I’m not suggesting cutting iff Mankins, I do think we need someone other than Warhop assessing talent on the OL. It has to be coachingh and scheme. I refuse to believe they are all this bad
December 8th, 2014 at 10:20 am
I like how people rail on TCU & Baylor’s schedule but not OSU, scheduled one team in Va Tech who is usually ok and lost at home. VA Tech ended up being horrible. OSU always plays Cincy at home, barely beat Minnesota a team TCU below out and the refs sure helped them win in OT against PSU
If either of those teams were named Oklahoma or Texas that would not have happened. This is a sham of a committee that voted on popularity IMO. Not a fan of any of these teams but I think Baylor got screwed. I hope Bama smokes Osu and Oregon wins it all. After Bama beats OSU their excuse will be because of their backup QB. Didn’t hurt them against that overrated fraud in Wisconsin.
December 8th, 2014 at 10:23 am
How about that run defense? Like I said before… I don’t see ANY improvement.
After being torched by Stafford I think we need the following for the defense and special teams to be much improved…
a TRUE nickel corner
RDE (DUH) would love for him to be a hybrid like Von Miller/Anthony Barr/Aldon Smith
2 Safeties as Hawk will not be back on that contract
MLB so we can either move Foster to the outside or say goodbye to him
Punter
and a PR
Offense don’t even need to go there… Minus maybe 5-7(and that’s including backups not starters sadly) guys the rest can go.
December 8th, 2014 at 10:44 am
@Joe
Hoyer won’t be a free agent next year unless they cut him… He will have a year left on his contract (signed for an extra year)… Granted it’t not guaranteed but he’s a good backup/bridge to Manziel.
I don’t remember which article you said something about him.
December 8th, 2014 at 10:47 am
okay, i have a new theory. the plan was always to tank for a top 3 pick. Evan Deitrich Smith and Anthony Collins were brought in to ensure we always got in our own way on offense, and josh mccown was brought in and paid $5 million to be a tackling dummy & scapegoat for the final year of his career. McCown’s payday makes alot more sense if it was also to purchase the right to not end his career on a high note (his 5 chicago starts)
December 8th, 2014 at 11:01 am
You would have thought that this OL should get better as the year rolled on. My god! I thought last year was bad. Heck, the OC too! Arroyo has no feel for the game, even the announcers mentioned it(a lot!). I can’t stand it! Football is not a complicated game. Try game-planning opponents instead of calling scripted plays. Even my 16 year old nephew can see that whatever we’re doing isn’t working.
I’ve been defending the coaches most of the year, not any more. With all that football knowledge, no one can call plays? Lovie, hello? Help Arroyo out. And since we know our OL sucks, how about designing plays to bail them out once in a while. For my final rant: For the love of football, can we please find a FB?! I don’t know, maybe a little ‘I’ formation follow the FB might get the run game going!
December 8th, 2014 at 11:19 am
@Phillip,
Per rotoworld, Hoyer is a free agent next year.
December 8th, 2014 at 11:34 am
Per overthecap.com he isn’t..
I trust overthecap.com with contract details over any other site.
December 8th, 2014 at 11:40 am
SERIOUSLY! Are people really saying that Lovie made a 4-12 team worse, A 4-12 TEAM!
Maybe Lovie doesn’t play the young guys and wins a meaningless game or 2 and knocks the Bucs out of a good draft spot. Will the complaining stop then about Lovie turning this 4-12 division contender into the 4th best team in this division. SERIOUSLY, some of you guys are something else.
December 8th, 2014 at 11:47 am
Joe, I have an issue with you calling the Buc’s play “tripe”. I’ve had tripe and the Bucs are worse and tripe is really bad.
December 8th, 2014 at 12:08 pm
@Newbucsfan- The short answer to your question is “Nope!” Fans here don’t seem to understand or don’t have the patience to know what it takes to build a team. Oh, and clearly, it is always the HC fault here in Tampa Bay, or the QB! So it is always HC and QB watch in Buccaneer land.
We are always a QB away from contention, or in need of a real NFL head coach! Even if we got the #1 and drafted a QB, fans will turn on him in a second if he just happens to throw a pick. We’ll say, “We should have sought a veteran free agent QB.”
December 8th, 2014 at 12:39 pm
When people say “patience”, are they willing to go 5 more years without making the playoffs? Cause that’s how far away this team is if it’s going to be built right. People are somehow underestimating how bad we are. Worst team in the worst division ever. We’re 8-12 starters away from competing at the highest level. It’s gonna be a while if you wanna do it right. And since Lovie doesn’t have that much time, he;ll take shortcuts to win and leave us worse off in the long term.
December 8th, 2014 at 1:00 pm
I think TCU got screwed in the end. Everyone is talking about head to head with Baylor which is important but really look at that game. It was in Baylor where Baylor is supposed to be on a different level with their home field advantage. TCU was up 21 with 10 min left in the 4th and basically dookied the bed. They scored 58 points pretty much in the first 3 quarters and then failed to score most of the 4th, that sounds like a team trying to sit on a lead to me. Baylor had to score the final 24 points including a 3 as time expired to win. So, if this were a neutral site game, who would you pick? It’s TCU for me.
OSU lost to a horrible VT team and was taken to OT by a bad PSU team but happened to blow out Wisconsin this weekend which made the difference I guess. What Meyer is doing is impressive with a 3rd stringer but having the worst loss of the 1 loss teams while playing in the B1G shouldn’t get you into the playoffs. The committee just got nervous about all the head to head backlash that the easiest option was to exclude both which is weak.
December 8th, 2014 at 1:12 pm
Three straight weeks Joe has picked against FSU.
He hasn’t been this wrong since he posted that Jonathan Banks was on the “cusp of elite.”