Rookie Quarterback 101
November 24th, 2014
Joe illustrates and wags a finger of shame at Demar Dotson
Joe really wants Bucs fans to watch this NFL.com video link a couple of times. It illustrates why, in part, Josh McCown doesn’t belong on the field in this lost season.
It was one of many times yesterday that McCown looked like a rookie. Heck, as Joe’s written, McCown’s entire season has been one that looks like that of a typical rookie QB.
With five minutes remaining in the third quarter, the Bucs led the Bears 10-7 with the ball on their own 35 yard line. You’ll see in the video that McCown drops back to pass and has a clean pocket, and a checkdown available.
But McCown doesn’t throw the ball and feels pressure that wasn’t really imminent danger from the left side. Rather than check down to Austin Seferian-Jenkins or take the wide open running lane to his right, McCown runs backwards five yards to his left. He left the ball hanging like a heavy, ripe grapefruit on a tree, and it got slapped away from behind by a Bears defender who chased him down from the opposite side of the field. (Nice job giving up on the play by Demar Dotson.)
This was a series of rookie decisions from a panicked veteran quarterback who had the lead and zero reason to panic.
The Josh McCown Experiment should have ended Sept. 18, when the Bucs didn’t show up in Atlanta on national television, 35-year-old McCown’s third bad game in as many weeks.
If McCown remains the Bucs starter for the final five games, Joe expects McCown to play two good games and three bad ones — just like a typical, talented rookie QB feeling his way through the league.
November 24th, 2014 at 12:08 pm
Rookies have potential to get better.
Josh McCown is a lost cause!
November 24th, 2014 at 12:10 pm
5 million for a QB that was minimum wage last year, not a bad gig if you can get it.
November 24th, 2014 at 12:11 pm
It now makes no sense to start McCown….at the very least we will give Glennon a stage for a trade or experience for a future backup.
Even if McCown is kept as a backup, he has plenty of experience at that.
The problem is that McCown makes many plays that Glennon can’t make with our terrible Oline….and Glennon makes fewer mistakes….
Its too bad we can’t have the best of both….
November 24th, 2014 at 12:12 pm
In Lovie we distrust, present Bucs motto.
November 24th, 2014 at 12:18 pm
Glennon has potential to get better as well, yet Lovie still is adamant about starting his hand picked 1-5 as a Buccaneer QB. While I do appreciate that Lovie is still trying to motivate the team with “we’re only two games out of first place” speeches to avoid the kind of “we’ve packed it in for the season” performances that can get a HC fired, there is something very important to that scenario that is missing…the ability to string wins together. This team was able to do that after an 0-8 start with MRSA, a rookie QB, and Fire Schiano billboards. It is something this team will have to show it is capable of doing (as in 5 times!) if it is serious about having a smowball’s chance in Tampa at winning the NFC South.
November 24th, 2014 at 12:18 pm
Hopefully this will end the debate but it won’t. I’m sure the reason the bucs suck year after year after year is bc those who carry the most influence have zero to no clue as to how football should be played.
Let’s take martin for example how the heck can you expect him to get going if he only gets one series before getting benched. Chris sims? Child please. Matt forte 2.0 more like NOPE not even close. Forte is a beast i.e the horse collar tackle that didn’t take him down. Sims can’t really catch he missed at least two easy passes.
Sims = 8touches for 33yards
Forte = 28touch for 112 yards with a bum knee.
Where the F* is Rainey? Leading rusher gets benched for a non productive rookie. Psst. At least use him on kicks. Get a clue lovely. You F* suck, simple as that.
November 24th, 2014 at 12:20 pm
That was horrible!!!
November 24th, 2014 at 12:22 pm
DB55 Says:
November 24th, 2014 at 12:18 pm
Hopefully this will end the debate but it won’t. I’m sure the reason the bucs suck year after year after year is bc those who carry the most influence have zero to no clue as to how football should be played.
Let’s take martin for example how the heck can you expect him to get going if he only gets one series before getting benched. Chris sims? Child please. Matt forte 2.0 more like NOPE not even close. Forte is a beast i.e the horse collar tackle that didn’t take him down. Sims can’t really catch he missed at least two easy passes.
Sims = 8touches for 33yards
Forte = 28touch for 112 yards with a bum knee.
Where the F* is Rainey? Leading rusher gets benched for a non productive rookie. Psst. At least use him on kicks. Get a clue lovely. You F* suck, simple as that.
——-
Chris Sims is one of our RBs? Is he related to Charles Sims or the other Chris Simms?
November 24th, 2014 at 12:25 pm
Tbbf
The only things I see mclown doing better than glennon are throwing multiple ints in multiple games, throwing the ball 5 feet over everyone’s head and turning the ball over in the red zone. To say glennon can’t hit open receivers is a stretch. Imagine if glennon had 100% support and weapons including an oline that gives him 3 secs to throw rather than the usual 1.4 secs they usually give him to go threw his progressions and throw the ball accurately.
November 24th, 2014 at 12:26 pm
Chris Charles just about the same production from both even though Chris is in a tv booth somewhere.
November 24th, 2014 at 12:27 pm
Lol ty Brandon.
November 24th, 2014 at 12:29 pm
Every shotgun snap it seemed like McCown had to bend way down to catch the snap thus taking his eyes off the play for a little extra longer than he should.
Bad start right from the snap
What is that?
November 24th, 2014 at 12:35 pm
He is, what we thought he was. Nothing more, nothing less. We really can’t be upset with his play. Only the decision to sign him. He’s gettng $5mil to play like like a guy at league minimum. I would still love to see him as QB coach next year. I believe that is where his talent lies.
I would like to see Glennon the rest of the way. If the light comes on, over his head, he will be of some value (starter, backup, trade). If it doesn’t click, then they are no worse off than they are right now.
November 24th, 2014 at 12:39 pm
What are people gonna do when Josh is the opening day starter next year? I mean besides pencil us in for another 4-12 season? McCown has to be awful down the stretch for Lovie to not have him starting next year.
Lovieball is alive and well. Horrible coaching, horrible offense, horrible talent management, if we’re lucky we’ll miss the playoffs twice as much as we make it. Good time to be a Bucs fan…
November 24th, 2014 at 12:42 pm
Hawk
I agree he looks best when carrying a clipboard but what is he going to teach you how to lose. That’s all he knows how to do. How to lose, throw int and be a career backup. How about Jeff Garcia? He knows how to win, throw, scramble, run, score, lead and win. Did I mention win? Yea win.
November 24th, 2014 at 12:43 pm
Lovie will never admit his screw up and bench McClown
November 24th, 2014 at 12:46 pm
If mclown starts next year you could realistically lose a larger portion of the fan base. Who the hell wants to go through this again. And if mccown could improve he would have done so in any of the previous 12 years he’s had to do so. Seriously people THIS IS NOT A GAME! Well it is but it really isn’t simple as that.
November 24th, 2014 at 12:55 pm
My wish list for 2015:
– Sign LVD long term
– Get a proven OC
– Get a 1st QB
– Clearly state that Glennon is the backup of the future
– Drop McCown
– Drop Koenen
– Fire Warhop, hire a real OL Coach
– Fire ST coach
– Drop Cousins, EDS, Collins (or at least try him at G), Gilbert
– Sign every proven OL available on FA
– Resign Rainey he deserves it
– Cut Michael Johnson, Goldson, Leonard Johnson
November 24th, 2014 at 12:58 pm
Back to life… Back to reality… Too bad we can’t play the Redskins every week…
Glennon won’t do much better but let’s give the kid some reps… The Josh McClown experiment is over…
Big surprise a 35 year old one year removed from Canadian Football wasn’t able to take us to the Super Bowl… BIG SURPRISE!!!
November 24th, 2014 at 12:59 pm
Well, shoot, Joe.
He felt pressure that wasn’t there? 98 percent of the time it is, so can you really blame him?
I want to lose every game from here on out, for the good of the team. I’m done with this season and looking forward to next season.
Life long fan here, and I still have plenty of life left. The thought of another year without a franchise QB is more than I can stand. Losing out now will get us one, and I really see no point in trying to make the playoffs and get knocked right out of them in the first game AND knocked out of a good pick.
November 24th, 2014 at 1:02 pm
It doesn’t matter!!!! The bucs are 2-9 and Glennon contributed to that as well. We can break down a play or two I am sure that will show Glennon looking like a high school quarterback. The bucs need to draft a qb (Winston) period. Lets talk about other developments like the safety McDougle or McDonald or whatever his name is. Lets talk about how the defense seems to be coming together late in the season like they did year one under dungy. All this talk and debate over two sorry qb’s is unnecessary. Why? Because they both suck!!!!
November 24th, 2014 at 1:02 pm
@ bucsqcity
I agree with a number of your points but we can’t cut EDS, Collins, McCown or Johnson because they all have garunteed money left on their contracts… These turds can’t be flushed until after next season…
I would also add pass rushing DE to your list… We have none…
November 24th, 2014 at 1:04 pm
And screw Glennon. Lovie isn’t going to switch QBs again without an injury to force him. Glennon hasn’t earned squat, and he shouldn’t get squat.
Changing now might result in winning another game, and that is the last thing we need.
We’re still in competition, but at the other end of the spectrum. We’re competing for the first pick in the draft, and we’re in the running for that.
November 24th, 2014 at 1:08 pm
DB55 Says
“If mclown starts next year you could realistically lose a larger portion of the fan base. Who the hell wants to go through this again.”
Well, someone needs to start other than our newly drafted QB. We’ll have a brand new offensive line. If we let him start right away, he’ll end up injured or ruined. Better to sit him a few games first. Give the line time to gel.
November 24th, 2014 at 1:16 pm
The Tampa Bay Tankaneers…. OH YA for a QB and Oline help..
November 24th, 2014 at 1:17 pm
It takes time.
November 24th, 2014 at 1:18 pm
If Josh McCown starts next year, Josh McCown is the starter the whole year unless he gets hurt. People, Lovie hasn’t changed at all from Chicago, that much is clear. So why would he ever put a rookie on the field ahead of a vet? Oh yeah, he won’t. McCown starting next year means he’s the 2015 starter for the whole year. Get ready for it and don’t get mad at Lovie for doing it. Lovie is who he is, clearly hasn’t changed one iota from Chicago. We’re so screwed right now.
November 24th, 2014 at 1:26 pm
McClown will not get benched unless he gets hurt again. “Its as simple as that….”
November 24th, 2014 at 1:30 pm
The Bucs shouldn’t reach for Jameis or Mariota despite the fact they need a qb. They should take the best player available when they pick and If that happens to be a qb cool. But never reach unless were talking about an Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning. Otherwise just draft the best player available be it an Olineman a receiver a corner a lb. Seattle didn’t draft their franchise super bowl winning qb til round three. The Redskins also were in desperate need of a qb so they reached for RG3 at #2 overall. I want The Bucs to be great but reaching for a qb usual sets your franchise back. This team has so many holes to fill. Build a team. Build depth then insert a qb when the time is right.
November 24th, 2014 at 1:38 pm
Bonzai,
Loser mentality?
November 24th, 2014 at 1:47 pm
i gotta say. THAT WAS FUNNY AS HELL!!!!
ASJ running wide open and mcclown never too his eyes off evans.
this is why i no longer watch. its funny as hell when you quit watching and they implode just like you expect.
kind of like i told you so i guess
November 24th, 2014 at 1:51 pm
@robert9
preach on brother, The best part is that all of the poster’s here that would call us crazy in the off-season, talking like Lovie going to the bucs was just like Lebron James going back to cleveland!
November 24th, 2014 at 2:04 pm
Did anyone else notice on that particular play, and on many others yesterday, that the ball was consistently snapped low? Just more evidence the offensive line is a huge issue.
November 24th, 2014 at 2:06 pm
LargoBuc, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Neither Jameis Winston or Marcus Mariota are can’t miss QBs. I don’t care what they are doing in college. It doesn’t matter that much.
November 24th, 2014 at 2:16 pm
Did anyone else notice on that particular play, and on many others yesterday, that the ball was consistently snapped low?
EDS should be replaced. he’s just collecting a check.
but you know what? so is lovie. thats why i no longer watch.
i fact, I will be going to my families house for turkey day and staying through the weekend, and I am not even going to bother to stay and watch the game. i wont even waste my time when its free!
November 24th, 2014 at 2:18 pm
So, instead of focusing on the big time QBs that enjoy having the best players on field that they’re either throwing to or being blocked by, are there any QBs out there that we can see are thriving at the college level in a similar situation to what they would see here. Is there a QB that is thriving despite having a sieve for an offensive line? I’d much rather have a young QB walk in who is used to working in the circumstances that we would be putting him in as opposed to having a guy who’s been used to working with the best players on the field who no longer has that and can’t funciton
November 24th, 2014 at 2:20 pm
@Robert9 – I did notice that as well. McCown was always at least a second behind when he was reading the play because he was constantly having to bend down to pick up a low snap and then get back up and figure out where the play was.
November 24th, 2014 at 2:29 pm
the solution is to stop looking for the holy grail QB. just my opinion.
the top picks think their $hit don’t stink. you bring one in and get him killed with this line….well then it’s over, and with todays premadonnas they’ll just blame it on the o-line.
if theres an andrew luck out there then hell yes, but not another thug 1st round pick.
get some meat for the O line in those rounds, trade back. get your QB some time and your RB some holes. start glennon next year and bring in another late round qb who has some brains, a strong arm and legs. scout the small schools.
November 24th, 2014 at 2:33 pm
How many games do you fell like the Bucs can win by out coaching the other team? How many wins will you get from the Bucs by stellar special team play? How many games will the Bucs win by wining the turn over margain. I could go on, but how depressing. The boys should turn over the operation to an outside professional who knows what it takes to win. If you think Lovie is the answer then you are only kidding yourself.
November 24th, 2014 at 2:49 pm
Idk about low snaps. Case in point.
2nd qrt 6:25 2&7
Good snap. ME13 wide open 3 yards deep in the flat. Mccown doesn’t look, instead fakes to Stocker who is open 1on1 against a lb then throws low and behind to sims who drops the pass. Hits both hands but drops it. Throw the ball to evans, it’s prob the first read anyway, easy.
Next play time out. Play clock low 2sec
3&7
Snap was thigh high. Asj wide open 6 yards deep on a delayed dig route. Louis Murphy wide open in the second window on a post route . He throws the ball ten yards over Vjax head into the teeth of the secondary as he’s getting blasted. Use the check down it’s prob the first read.
4&7
Punt almost blocked, not really but close enough.
So to recap. Poorly thrown ball, poor clock management, poor reads. That pretty much sums it up for mccown. More importantly, why is evans running an arrow route and why is stocker going out on routes? I just don’t get it.
What’s most amazing of all is that mccown threw for 300 yards and Vjax and Murphy both had over a 100y. How did that happen?
November 24th, 2014 at 2:59 pm
@DB55 – I don’t want to speak for Robert, but I know that I’m definitely not saying that the low snaps were the reason they played badly. It was just one other aspect of the game that was going awry. Just more evidence of everyone not doing their job at the proper level
November 24th, 2014 at 3:15 pm
Who was a thug 1st round pick?
November 24th, 2014 at 3:18 pm
RGIII
November 24th, 2014 at 3:21 pm
@ DB55
My bad. For the sanity of certain posters, I was trying to give a positive spin to a clearly negative issue. Is Garcia available/interested? If the Bucs don’t showing more improvement, who would want to join this train wreck (I’m talking players AND coaches)? I’d love to see Steve Deberg coaching QBs. The guy was (‘technically’ speaking) one of the best ever. If he had just had the other qualities needed…
November 24th, 2014 at 3:27 pm
Leading the blind over the Cliff again.
McCown played well. He had huge breakdowns in the Line, and lots of Drops.
Much of this was caused by the rain. Bears also slips/drops.
We took a good team, down to the last minute. We have now lost 7 games by 42 points( I think that’s right- I heard it during the game yesterday
For the first year of a rebuild-not bad.
November 24th, 2014 at 3:28 pm
I said this when we signed this loser in March and a thousand times since…when you intentionally start Josh McCown you are not trying to win football games in the NFL. Period.
November 24th, 2014 at 3:31 pm
Capt Tim…respectfully, McCown in fact did not play well and sir you have no idea what you are watching on Sundays or what you are talking about…respectfully.
November 24th, 2014 at 3:42 pm
Capt. Tim,
By that logic, Glennon has outplayed McCown.
Put in the youngster, for he has a chance to be something better than McCown.
Lovie is wrong, and should be put on notice for his stubborn foolish depth chart.
Secondly, start Rainey. He is the best we have on the roster. Cut Martin, who cares, he is TOAST.
November 24th, 2014 at 3:51 pm
We know what we have in McCown, a backup QB…
There is still a small chance Glennon can become more than McCown, as he is 10 years younger and already just as “good”.
This is ALL on Lovie for failing to play the young guy, so we can find out where we are with the QB position.
November 24th, 2014 at 4:20 pm
we do not have a backup QB in mcclown. we have a guy who has an 80% chance of single handedly losing the game.
a guy like that should not even be on the practice squad.
November 24th, 2014 at 4:37 pm
This is exactly what happens when you switch head coaches every two years. Would have been better off giving Schiano the five years on his contract and if it doesn’t work out you pull the plug. No doubt in my mind we would have been better than 2-9 with Schiano in there. When ownership listens to haters and sports analysts you put your team in the trick bag. There are no quick fixes. Groom the Samoan, Marcus Mariota and hope for the best.
November 24th, 2014 at 4:37 pm
McCown could easily have had 6 turnovers, but he played “well”. Jesus Christ, if he almost had 15 turnovers would that qualify as “okay”?
November 24th, 2014 at 4:42 pm
I am still not getting how there is anyone who does not see that both of these qbs suck!!!!! Stop with this Glennon madness. He sucks too!!!!
November 24th, 2014 at 5:57 pm
Doesn’t make a difference who sucks; what makes a difference is age and ability to improve. Why would anyone in their right mind continue to start McCown? He now has zero value to the Bucs or anyone else. No trade value; no potential backup role; nothing. At least if Glennon can improve he would hold trade value or backup value especially for salary purposes.
November 24th, 2014 at 6:02 pm
Glennon’s TD to Int percentages look pretty good to me, josh… not so much! Glennon has had ONE red zone int as a NFL QB…. Josh has them Every Game! End of story!
November 24th, 2014 at 6:03 pm
You know bucs but doesn’t mean you know football….. Mike Glennon panics in the pocket and only throws touchdowns. You keep hearing lovie say they are in the hunt why would you play the new rookie instead of the old one. Get off Glennon penis already, both these quarterbacks are gone and who cares which one plays. They both come with their own surgeon general warning, burn are dangerous to use. You wanna talk about rookie 101 them discuss the o line including Logan mankins….. Once again duped by bill belicheat
November 24th, 2014 at 6:17 pm
buc4lyfe says:
“Mike Glennon panics in the pocket and only throws touchdowns”.
——————————————————————–
Can I quote you on that? LOL.
tickrdr
November 24th, 2014 at 6:56 pm
@Tiny
I agree completely. I do not think many people who post on here watch a whole lot of games. Pretty much all of the top teams have a very good to great QB outside of Arizona when Palmer was hurt. That team is toast in the postseason anyway because of it. You have to have a QB in this league to go far in the playoffs we do not have one, not even close.
Some will say look at this or that, great running game, defenses, etc. and I understand that. If you have a top 5 QB you are in the mix every year, big reason why we haven’t since the Super Bowl. Glennon is a back up period please make Everett effort to get one
November 24th, 2014 at 7:36 pm
DB55, ”How did that happen?” Well, the Bucs threw a lot of passes.But I also was surprised to see those stats this morning. I thought, ”When did that happen?”
November 24th, 2014 at 8:22 pm
Glennon is NO better than Mcown. At least MCown get get out of his own shadow, Glennon would be torn apart with at least 3 to 4 more sacks against us every game.
November 24th, 2014 at 8:57 pm
It might be hard to believe but even a 35 yr old man has some learning to do. He is a veteran, but he isn’t Peyton manning. Stop acting like Drew Brees doesn’t make mistakes and throw ints or drop fumbles. It is annoying, yes. But it’s part of football. Mccown doesn’t know when to give up on plays, he extends plays, and he always wants to make a play. Glennon is the absolute opposite, Glennon gives up on plays too early, and can’t extend plays, and instead of giving his guy a chance he throws it in the dirt. I’m willing to ride with the guy willing to take a risk. You can’t do anything special if you don’t take a risk. McCown isn’t our future but he’s our current guy until someone worthy is on the roster. Deal with it joe. Glennon sucks.
November 24th, 2014 at 9:19 pm
True glennon would take more sacks, no debate there. Now would you prefer 8 sacks or a FF on the opponents 18 yardline? I’d take the sacks but what do I know.
November 25th, 2014 at 5:59 am
Fact is that both our QBs suck! They are the same with different skills. I would think if you’re gonna start one of them, then start the young man. How many years does McCown have left in him? How many years does Glennon have left in him? To say one is better then the other is an absolute joke. Take your beating and start the guy that could be your backup for years to come instead of the backup that won’t be in the league in 2yrs. I haven’t been on the same page as the Joe’s in a long time, but I see the point. It’s not about which backup is handed the starting job, but which backup will help you down the road. As Lovie says “It’s as simple as that”
November 25th, 2014 at 10:18 am
Yeah you’re right, he had time, that play was horrible.
November 25th, 2014 at 11:52 am
I guess you don’t understand that any sack has a high risk of a fumble occurring.