Defenders Don’t Fit What Lovie Wants
November 14th, 2014
Before the season began, Joe thought the Bucs would be 7-9 largely because Joe was not sold on the offense, particularly the offensive line.
Joe was scolded by many for being so pessimistic about the new, overhauled frontline.
Joe never, ever dreamed the Bucs defense would be so rotten. Not with Lovie Smith as the head coach.
Getting horse-whipped by the Dixie Chicks and Crows, and showing an inability to close games out in the handful of times the Bucs held leads in the fourth quarter, Joe is guessing Lovie has been eating Pepcid AC like M&Ms.
Well, there is a reason the defense is so rotten. Long-time NFL Films analyst Greg Cosell bluntly stated, in an appearance with Joe’s good friend Justin Pawlowski of WHFS-FM 98.7, that aside from Gerald McCoy and Lavonte David, the Bucs don’t have anyone who can play Lovie’s defense. The subject came up when Justin asked Cosell if the Bucs may want to upgrade from Mason Foster at linebacker.
“My guess is that they will want to upgrade, but you cannot upgrade everything necessarily in one year,” Cosell said. “Let’s put it this way: Lovie’s methodology starts with the Cover-2 or the Tampa-2. Now you don’t play that on every snap, clearly, but that is the basic methodology. So what you need in order for that to work, No. 1, you need pass rushers. This team does not have pass rushers. I think this defense requires better safety play. And I don’t think they have the safeties right now that fit exactly what Lovie Smith wants. And obviously, you need that middle-hole defender and I would think that they need a better player in that position.”
Other than that, how was the car ride, Mrs. Kennedy?
In other words, Cosell is suggesting Lovie, the overlord of football operations, toss his defense into Tampa Bay, saving only GMC and David and the starting corners, if Lovie ever expects the Bucs to be able to stop a cool breeze.
You know, Joe sort of admires Lovie’s insistence that players play his defense. But doggoneit, can’t Lovie adjust to utilizing the talents his players have, getting the most out of them? That clearly has not happened this year, not even close.
Joe remembers when Tuna Parcells, a ground-and-pound coach if there ever was one, opened the floodgates when he was in New England with Drew Bledsoe, throwing the ball 40 times a game. Why? He didn’t have the personnel to play smashmouth football but did have the horses to throw the ball effectively.
There is a reason why Parcells has a bust in Canton.
November 14th, 2014 at 8:21 pm
bring back Schiaino
November 14th, 2014 at 8:28 pm
Good observation on Parcells. You have to work with the tools on hand. Think Bum Phillips and Earl Cambell.
November 14th, 2014 at 8:39 pm
Maybe Lovie has realized that the current group of defenders don’t fit his system/plans/aspirations and knows that his best opportunity to bring in “his” players via draft is by letting the current group continue to fail (read: lose) and improve the team’s draft position? I’m not saying he’s TRYING to lose, I’m just saying…
November 14th, 2014 at 8:54 pm
This is F’n RIDICULOUS!!! Excuse after excuse…isn’t Michael Johnson one of Lovies players? Of course, EVERY coach would love to have “his” players, but you coach who you have. Does anyone trust Lovie to bring in “his” players, after everyone of the FA’s has been a disappointment? Lovie needs to concentrate on COACHING the players he has, and quit making excuses…IMO. Lovie Smith need not concern himself with anything but COACHING!!!!
November 14th, 2014 at 8:56 pm
Fire Lovie, hire Todd Bowles. We need someone who can watch his defense get obliterated by injuries and still put out an outstanding product because he can adapt and adjust to the game.
November 14th, 2014 at 9:02 pm
Coach Schiano adjusted to the players, but all the local media said ” he was the problem”, schemes were ” college” and my personal favorite ” he just needs to let the players play!”
November 14th, 2014 at 9:27 pm
It is simple. Lovie does not have the men to run his ridiculous version of the Tampa 2. Another example of him and Lapdog trying to force a round peg into a square hole. He tries to force players like Mason Foster, Mark Barron, Leonard Johnson, etc. to play a scheme they are not good at. Now you see when a smart coach uses players to their strengths (ex. Jeff Fisher, Mark Barron), good things tend to happen.
November 14th, 2014 at 9:36 pm
Chip Kelly at Philly plays with the players he has! The Bucs will never win games if they keep giving away players they spent 1st round picks on with no compensation! The players that are gone are contributing and doing well on other teams…Aqib Talib, Michael Bennett, Darrelle Revis, Tim Wright, Mark Barron…what did the Buc’s get collectively? A couple of 7th round picks?
If Dashon Gholson is gone, another high draft round pick and still paying millions on the cap despite no player on the roster. The Bucs are never going to win a game if the HC cannot play with the players he has. No way you are going to draft 22 starters in a five year period and build your team.
The problem is the coaches, not the players! Play the talent you have in something that works to their talents. The Patriots are playing a different defense than they have had in recent years because they have players that fit a different system.
I don’t care what anyone says, Lovie is not the answer in Tampa Bay!
Greg Schiano
November 14th, 2014 at 9:50 pm
As Bum Phillips once said about Bear Bryant; he can take his’n and beat your’n and take your’n and beat his’n. On the other hand Lovie can take his’n and get beat by your’n and then take your’n and get beat to his’n. Bottom line, Lovie will always be mediocre at best.
November 14th, 2014 at 9:52 pm
Wasn’t there an article this week saying lovie isn’t even playing his tampa-2 often. I also read something recently on him dialing up more pressure. Its apparent Lovie doesn’t have his players, but he also isnt playing his defense as much. This means he is adapting his approach. It’s always written here that good coaches adapt to their players, lovie isn’t playing his defense, he’s adapting it for the team he has that can’t dial up pressure with the front 4. Aside from Gmac, Lavonte, and Banks lately, the whole defense is underperforming.
November 14th, 2014 at 9:58 pm
Idiots
Of course the problem is the players!!!
Have these losers won with any other coach?
No.
Morris never got to make moves to get rid of these losers.
Schiano had some liberty- but was an over his head high school coach-had no idea what a good player was
Lovie is the first real coach to drive this bus
And he found out it’s got 5 flats! All 4 plus the Spare.
It’s exactly what I’ve been saying for months.
This defense has 2 players qualified to play in the NFL- McCoy and David
It has 2 CBs that can play in this system.- Verner and Banks
The rest shouldn’t be on an NFL team
This is gonna take time.
Greg Cosell is exactly right spot on!
Same thing I said 5 months ago
November 14th, 2014 at 10:03 pm
MJ was the most high profile DE FA on the market last year. He took a chance and he lost. The real question is will he dump him next year. Goldson, Barron are Dominick picks. as long as Lovie is willing to pick a QB in 1st rnd he can do what he needs to do
November 14th, 2014 at 10:05 pm
“We’re just not in synch!”
November 14th, 2014 at 10:08 pm
First of all, Lovie sucks and I’m sick of hearing him, reading what he’s said, seeing his boring, lifeless, emotionless, face and thinking about his revolutionary stupidly stubborn “game plans.”
November 14th, 2014 at 10:09 pm
If Lovie could get the perfect players he wants this would likely be a very good defense.
In this league however you have to win with a combination of the perfect players you want and “other available talent”.
Many great coaches have known or figured out how to use the
“other available talent” to the best scenario for the team.
We shall have to wait and see how this plays out in Tampa.
November 14th, 2014 at 10:11 pm
Can we trade Lovie Smith for a conditional draft pick? I think Lovie gave Tedford heart problems! Seriously I hope dude is okay. I’m just fed up with Lovie.
November 14th, 2014 at 10:20 pm
Cover 2 only works against short passes. If you can’t sack the quarterback within 3 seconds by rushing 4 defenders, it’s a useless defense
November 14th, 2014 at 10:30 pm
Greg Schiano Says:
November 14th, 2014 at 9:36 pm
Chip Kelly at Philly plays with the players he has! The Bucs will never win games if they keep giving away players they spent 1st round picks on with no compensation! The players that are gone are contributing and doing well on other teams…Aqib Talib, Michael Bennett, Darrelle Revis, Tim Wright, Mark Barron…what did the Buc’s get collectively? A couple of 7th round picks?
If Dashon Gholson is gone, another high draft round pick and still paying millions on the cap despite no player on the roster. The Bucs are never going to win a game if the HC cannot play with the players he has. No way you are going to draft 22 starters in a five year period and build your team.
The problem is the coaches, not the players! Play the talent you have in something that works to their talents. The Patriots are playing a different defense than they have had in recent years because they have players that fit a different system.
I don’t care what anyone says, Lovie is not the answer in Tampa Bay!
Greg Schiano
============
Oh the wonderful memories of leading the “Fire Schiano!” chant at the Bucs-Panthers game…
Out of all the players you mentioned that the Bucs GAVE away with no compensation, two were undrafted, and only Talib and Barron were first rounders. Goldson was a free agent pick-up. You’re a real pro at this revisionist history thing.
November 14th, 2014 at 10:30 pm
Mark Barron had 1 good game in St. Louis don’t crown him as the next coming of Ronnie Lott just yet. Let’s see that consistency over a full 16 games first and then I might agree that it was lack of coaching during his 3 yrs in Tampa that caused him to look like a bust. For the record it was Schiano that didn’t see Aquib Talib, Blount, and Michael Bennett as Buccaneer men.
November 14th, 2014 at 10:40 pm
@Capt.Tim
I’m starting to agree with you. 3 different coaches and pretty much the same result, I think it’s the players. I couldn’t make that call when Schiano was the coach because he didn’t have a proven track record for me to base anything on but Lovie does and this team still looks terrible, probably even worse than last year.
November 15th, 2014 at 12:01 am
We got rid of Jon Gruden for Radio.
What do we really expect from this organization?
November 15th, 2014 at 12:02 am
When you looked at our D-lineman at the beginning of camp there was this feeling that maybe the Bucs had finally built some young decent depth at the position. Take in the fact a couple of young good looking prospects in Ghoston, Spence, Masifilo, and Means, would be ready for their sophomore year, and with the likes veterans McCoy, Clayborn, Johnson, McDonald, and even Bowers, it seemed like back then things were pointing up, and it would create at least a formidable four man rotation. Boy was I wrong. At first I thought new system, but now after 13 games, I don’t know if they ever will learn the system, if it is the system. It may be just a question of talent level, period.
“A fool’s paradise is a wise man’s hell.”
― Thomas Fuller
November 15th, 2014 at 12:12 am
@ Waterboy and Cap’t Tim:
If it’s the players, and not the coaching; then why are essentially the same players from the 2013 defense (minus the rehabbing Revis) playing so much WORSE in 2014, even with the supposed additions of Michael Johnson, McDonald, Verner, and Fletcher. They have given up more yards, more points per game, gotten fewer sacks and turnovers, and have now lost five fourth quarter leads. If it’s the players and not the coaches, then why is our rebuilt offensive line worse than last year, why is the rushing attack less productive, and why does it seem that not a single player is playing at a level which is clearly better than last year?
tickrdr
November 15th, 2014 at 12:49 am
Yes, in fact.
Michael Johnson and Anthony Collins were in three playoff appearances with the Bengals.
Clinton McDonald won a Super Bowl ring in Seattle.
Vincent Jackson played in an AFC title game in San Diego.
Logan Mankins has been in two.
Evan Dietrich-Smith was in several playoff games with the Packers.
November 15th, 2014 at 1:33 am
Perhaps Lovie is staying the course until he does get right the players he needs. Never relenting from his plan, because relenting from that plan throws a serious wrench into the machine he’s trying to build. So he’ll keep hammering away with the players he’s got until he gets the right players he needs to make the machine work properly adding a nut and bolt here and there as he goes along.
Yes he brought many new players in here and he’s missed on a lot of them. So that makes many fans (including me) feel like the future is bleak for him bringing in the right replacement parts. Still I believe that he WILL get the right parts to make this machine hum. He just has to run the bad parts out of this team including some of the FA’s he picked up last off season. In order to do that he just needs to keep up with the plan until everything his in order and humming.
November 15th, 2014 at 1:42 am
I really think that’s what Lovie is doing by not deviating from his plans or playing to the players strengths. This next offseason should be very telling though. I think we all need to pay attention to what he’s doing and be a little more critical this time around in the off season.
If some of these FA busts he picked up are still on the team come training camp, then he really does have no plan.
I think the players he picked up are decent players or were decent players for their former team and he missed on the evaluation part. Let’s hope he gets it right the next time around.
What else can we do anyways? Well we could bitch and moan like we always do.
November 15th, 2014 at 2:34 am
I thought Michael Johnson was the perfect fit. Hand picked by LovieDovie&Co
November 15th, 2014 at 3:21 am
DallasBuc…that’s what I’m talking about when I say it looks bleak as far his future picking of players to put out on the field, but right now we have no choice but to sit and wait. Hope he gets it right. I don’t know anymore.
November 15th, 2014 at 5:25 am
Good. We just need a few more Michael Johnsons and we’re set. Start making the rings now.
November 15th, 2014 at 7:25 am
Lovie addressed pure offense in the draft. To be honest, this is one of the reasons I’m not sure he’ll take a QB in the first round if we have a choice. If there is a stud DE up there, I could see him taking him.
While it would certainly help the defense…the truth is the offense is nearer to completion than the defense. Finish the offense with a great QB (which will sell tickets) and oline.
Work on defense with Free Agency and later rounds.
Personally? I would go QB, OL, Safety, and then the rest OL. Gotta strike gold on the online with at least two players.
November 15th, 2014 at 7:26 am
I KNOW I do not want Lovie picking OL in the first round. His record there sucks.
November 15th, 2014 at 7:27 am
Anyone notice how well Sanchez is playing right now? You know, the guy I wanted instead of McCown?
November 15th, 2014 at 8:02 am
I don’t know the dollar amount, but our outstanding HC spent about half the team salary on “his” FA and draft picks. Every day another excuse. Its nauseating. And I wanted Sanchez to Banzai. Cost Eagles half what we paid for a career backup. This is why the Glazers need to hire a qualified NFL guy as president of football ops and take away Lovie’s player personnel decision s.
November 15th, 2014 at 9:09 am
I hate when lame duck HC’s start making desperation roster changes. He’s already proved he knows nothing about talent with his 100+ or w/e roster changes. He’s just hurting the team for the next HC.
November 15th, 2014 at 9:12 am
You can call for Lovie’s head all you like…..its a waste of time at this point….he will be here at least until the end of next year. I choose to wish him success with rebuilding the team. That doesn’t mean I am happy with him.
I don’t let Licht off the hook….he has swung and missed on many FAs….
As far as Barron is concerned….I think he never played up to his #1 pick here and we made the right decision to get a couple of picks for him. Goldson never played well for us either.
November 15th, 2014 at 9:14 am
For those of you saying “it’s the players, we’ve had 3 different coaches and gotten the same results.”
***NEWSFLASH***
There was big time turnover of the players with each new coach, you act like this is the same bunch of guys losing as we had in 2009. Was Michael Johnson or Josh McCown or Mike Evans here when we were losing last year?
Was Lavonte David or Doug Martin or Vincent Jackson here when we were losing with Raheem?
This is a combination of the BAD coaching hires and poor moves over the past 15 years.
First we had all those really high draft picks in the late 90’s/early 00’s that caused us to have massive holes in our roster where quality, cheap young vets should have been, leading to too many old guys, making too much money during the Gruden years.
Then when Morris & Dummynik came in those old guys got flushed and we had a clueless staff trying to build from the ground up.
Morris gets fired and we hire another guy who is in over his head & Dummynik continues to ignore areas of need until they are areas of necessity, like with the CB situation. That was ignored for years when we could all see the problem and then when they finally do something it was kneejerk and we had to have the very best guy (at an insane cost) to fix the problem.
Now we have a dinosaur at coach with a lapdog GM & all they’ve done is swap out the old, overpaid mediocre players for their own younger, overpaid mediocre players, this while not really showing that they understand how the game is played today.
Defenders don’t fit Lovies defense, well then do what good coaches are meant to do and alter the freakin defense to fit the players you have at the time.
GMac- best DT in all of football.
David – All Pro LBer who set records last year, among the best LBers in the game.
Johnson – Lovie was the one that gave him that big money deal so you’d hope he must have done his homework to check he fit the defense.
Verner – See Johnson, plus Verner was a Pro Bowler just last year.
McDonald – Another Lovie signing.
These are either his guys or the best the league has to offer so if the defense isn’t working where should the finger be pointed?
I get that there are still other positions filled with lesser players that Lovie didn’t hand pick but the results should still be better, Mason Foster is no world beater but he’s no chump either.
Hell, it’s not just the defense, it’s offense & special teams, there are no real proof that these players are getting any coaching at all, all the stupid penalties, the poor blocking, the poor tackling, players out of position, poor clock management, no replacement QB coach when the guy doing the job got thrust into a role he clearly isn’t ready to do as OC, the list goes on and on with the lone constant being the guy running the show.
1-8 is never acceptable but can be tolerated if there are signs of progress and/or hope but we have neither, we have a head coach stuck in the past, who is too stubborn to alter his schemes to fit players he has while not showing he’s able to judge talent when given the chance to make roster moves. This while coming over as being arrogant and emotionless (I know somehow he manages to pull both off at the same time, which I didn’t think possible) as he talks BS.
It’s like we’re on stationary bikes, the wheels are turning but we’re getting nowhere while other teams are on real bikes going places.
Does anyone really trust the regime to either alter their beliefs (remember this is exactly why Lovie got fired in Chicago) or make the right moves when it comes to the off season? I mean really what will be their answer at QB, we just heard from Lovie that QB isn’t a problem, we’re in position to grab a top prospect at the position and even if we do (not likely) would you trust they will get the coaching needed to reach their their potential?
I love this team but damn it, I hate so much about it right now.
rant over!
November 15th, 2014 at 9:19 am
What worries me is, the Bucs draft for a couple years to get players who fit Smith’s ideal, the team still is poor, & they get a new coach who finds that the personnel don’t fit HIS ideal.
November 15th, 2014 at 9:20 am
Mando PLayr , I believe that was Don Shula that Bum said that about.
November 15th, 2014 at 9:59 am
If lovie would have coached to the players strengths we would be competing for the playoffs in this slacker division, Instead we are playing peewee foolsball..
November 15th, 2014 at 10:04 am
I still feel Lovie was a good hire. He just needs to understand in today’s NFL, most coaches do NOT have a ten year plan to turn around a team
November 15th, 2014 at 10:07 am
Never thought he would but I just read that tedford is never coming back, OK lovie what now, can”t believe you never did a dam thing so far..
November 15th, 2014 at 10:25 am
Not adjusting his system to get the best out of the players he has is Ray Perkinsesque!
Hope not.
November 15th, 2014 at 12:35 pm
Joe- I was referring to our collection- with the coaches they’ve had here.
November 15th, 2014 at 1:11 pm
Are we to believe that nobody in the entire sea of free agents could play Tampa-2?
But he couldn’t spot any of them, not a single one. That’s pathetic.
November 15th, 2014 at 1:12 pm
@GREG SHIANO- spot on pal I have been saying this for weeks this coach is a pinhead! over paid and overrated and has to go! could u please come back.
November 15th, 2014 at 1:32 pm
Joe Says:
November 15th, 2014 at 12:49 am
Have these losers won with any other coach?
No.
Yes, in fact.
Michael Johnson and Anthony Collins were in three playoff appearances with the Bengals.
Clinton McDonald won a Super Bowl ring in Seattle.
Vincent Jackson played in an AFC title game in San Diego.
Logan Mankins has multiple Super Bowl rings.
Evan Dietrich-Smith was in several playoff games with the Packers.
Ok Joe, so four players out an entire roster should make a difference?
November 15th, 2014 at 1:41 pm
mike Says:
November 15th, 2014 at 1:12 pm
@GREG SHIANO- spot on pal I have been saying this for weeks this coach is a pinhead! over paid and overrated and has to go! could u please come back.
Umm, maybe Lovie boy isn’t the answer but, how much of a pinhead are you for asking for Schiano back? Lol. Let’s not go backwards or parallel, can we get better please? Go after someone with fresh innovative ideas and and more emotion than Lovie but less than Raheem…lol. I can stand a lil bit more losing if there is a light in the end of a tunnel. Only lights I see now are from an oncoming train! Lol. I love my Bucs, live in Jax, but am tired of going to sports bars to watch this team get blown out or lose miserably.
November 15th, 2014 at 1:44 pm
David Says:
November 15th, 2014 at 1:32 pm
Joe Says:
November 15th, 2014 at 12:49 am
Have these losers won with any other coach?
No.
Yes, in fact.
Michael Johnson and Anthony Collins were in three playoff appearances with the Bengals.
Clinton McDonald won a Super Bowl ring in Seattle.
Vincent Jackson played in an AFC title game in San Diego.
Logan Mankins has multiple Super Bowl rings.
Evan Dietrich-Smith was in several playoff games with the Packers.
@JOE….
Ok Joe, so four players out an entire roster should make a difference?
My bad, I mean 6 players out of an entire roster should make a difference?
November 15th, 2014 at 7:38 pm
OK free agency is hit or miss lol lovie missed on everyone and even Logan mankins isn’t playing at a high level. You paid them but sooner or later you’re going to have to start building through the draft. I’d rather miss on free agents than draft picks so far though the lineman we picked up and that late round slot guy are no shows and the need at quarterback hurts the chances of getting a starting middle linebacker and cover safety in the draft. I’m tired of free agents draft your own guys lovie
November 15th, 2014 at 9:50 pm
Ya he basically said nothing.
I need to get paid for reporting on bad teams, and saying “other than those two pro-bowl players, no one else fits the scheme.”
November 15th, 2014 at 9:56 pm
And as far as why we’re so bad – long long ago we falsely committed to building through the draft when we were running on the cheap (somehow wayne rooney was going to help our offense across the Atlantic?).
When we missed on a majority of our picks for several years, we turned to filling those voids by writing checks… and that’s just not how it works. We have no depth and no talent because we haven’t drafted and/or developed talent well enough for what is nearing a decade.