Serious Questions For Bucs
October 13th, 2014
Joe has a range of emotions about the Bucs after their second seal-clubbing in a month yesterday, this time at the hands of the Baltimore Crows. It was one of the more pitiful beatdowns Joe has ever seen.
Not one emotion spinning in Joe’s head is positive. The Bucs are in a complete and total collapse, whether it be coaching or player evaluation.
The latter goes right back to the same guy as the former: Lovie Smith. Make no mistake, Lovie has final say in all football decisions.
Everything that has gone wrong falls at the feet of the same guy: Lovie. It is so bad that serious questions make sober fans wonder if a turnaround can actually happen. Andrew Astleford of Fox Sports Florida raises the tough questions.
All questions should be on the table. Are players responding to Smith’s leadership? After so many roster moves by the new regime, why aren’t the Bucs as talented as they need to be in some areas, as Smith admitted Sunday?
Can Smith’s vision work without another overhaul? What the heck is going on?
It is simple: There is a disconnect between Lovie and the players. Oh, they all rave about him as a good man and how he treats them as professionals, then they go out and play like amateurs. Either Lovie’s vaunted defense is too complex to grasp or it is just a bad defense in 2014.
Or, has Lovie already lost the locker room? Joe isn’t sure that is the case, but it bears asking. Joe saw quite a few very, very, very, very frustrated players yesterday. Not mad, but frustrated. There is a difference.
If the defense is too complex, then Lovie swung and missed in player evaluation. Since Lovie has zero plans to change his ways — he even seemed upset that subject was even asked yesterday — then the only option is yet another major overhaul of personnel. Doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of crazy. If Lovie isn’t going to change, then the players must.
And frankly, what gives anyone confidence that changing the personnel (again) is the answer? And does Team Glazer have the patience to see yet another wasted season when new players have to learn Lovie’s defense and we hear the same spin that it takes time to learn his defense? Many teams annually learn a new defense and they are not taken to the woodshed.
This just in: Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks and John Lynch are retired. This is 2014, not 1996.
Right now the Bucs are worse off than they were under Greg Schiano, or Raheem Morris (short of his final four games, in which Raheem’s defense gave up the same amound of points as Lovie’s has the past four games, and Morris lost his job).
Morris’ first team was void of talent. The roster was gutted to rebuild from the draft alone. Schiano had his franchise quarterback go mental and his locker room poisoned by the MRSA.
Lovie has none of the aforementioned issues.
October 13th, 2014 at 12:45 pm
You are dancing around the core Joe….I don’t see quit in the players…they are doing what is asked of them…what they are being asked to do is flawed and ineffective…sad to watch the clueless Lovie
October 13th, 2014 at 12:47 pm
Greg Schiano’s credibility as a coach goes up every sunday. While the roster could improve, its not bad. Its a better roster than the cowboys (especialy on D) and they are 5-1. Even the jags and raiders are more competitive than us. Something is very wrong with this coaching staff!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you know ho hard it is to give up 28 points in the 1st quarter? A bucs game is what it would look like if a good college team played a nfl team.
October 13th, 2014 at 12:47 pm
Joe,
I am feeling the hurt just like you! I took being fired cuz everyone was right….I had zero NFL experience and I my Coordinators were not much better! The only thing is…we won 4 games that last season but the players at least played.
I could have drafted Johnny Football and to watch Lovie pass on him while I am jumping up and down sitting on the couch….watching the draft! OMG what were they thinking??
Not that Johnny Football is the answer to the lack of aggression we are watching on Sunday by the Buc’s. Maybe the players hated me…but they sure played hard every Sunday!
Chucky….where are ya buddy! Tampa Bay needs you!
Greg Schiano
October 13th, 2014 at 12:48 pm
It’s not rocket science joe. Frazier is not a good coach. Lovely needs Rivera or marinelli to win games. Lovie made his bed now he has to lie in it. A bed of hot coals w bedbugs.
October 13th, 2014 at 12:48 pm
Is it me, or does Lovie show no passion, no intensity, no emotion at all? He just stands there like someone blind, deaf, and dumb all game. It’s great that he doesn’t get enraged like Will Muschump, but when the players are down, looking at the scoreboard, getting burnt, and they look at their coach only to see a statue, do-no-wrong, no cussing Lovie Smith, what goes through their minds?
October 13th, 2014 at 12:50 pm
All you hear from these players is how bad they played, and yet the next week they play just as bad or worst. So far this season I see no effort from one week to another. These guys are paid very well and yet as far as I can see they haven’t earned on pay check. Lovie has managed to make this team the laughing stock of the NFL. During the game I was watching Joe Flacco on the sidelines pointing to the Bucs and laughing. So Lovie has made the Bucs relevant in a comedy club sort of way.
October 13th, 2014 at 12:50 pm
The plan:
HC hires GM
McCown is the starting QB
Replace oline with worse players
Michael Johnson is our high priced edge rusher
Cut Revis
The people in charge of this plan are not fully accountable. The media did nothing to to challenge the credibility of this plan when it was being implemented 8 months ago. Virtually all of the fans loved the plan and attacked those few of us that said it was BS. We are getting what we deserve.
October 13th, 2014 at 12:51 pm
Lovie’s D is as obsolete as the clock radio. It might work again if we had 6 HOFers ( or close to HOFers) like sapp, brooks, rice, barber, lynch and lonnie marts
October 13th, 2014 at 12:53 pm
Before anyone brings up Dallas, watch them play. Do they play Tampa 2? Sure…like 25% of the time. Mostly? It’s man to man with safeties over the top. That’s what allows them to blitz linebackers and corners (have we done that once this year?) .Rod has shown he can adapt to his personnel to get the most out of them. Lovie continues to insist that his way will work and that he’s changing nothing. So there you go, one chooses to change to suit the current situation while the other insists on fitting the square peg in the round hole.
Adapt or die…and Lovie has chosen to die. We shouldn’t follow him into the grave too.
October 13th, 2014 at 12:53 pm
@dallas
Here! Here! And that’s why I’m enjoying every second of this. Hawaii apologized yesterday. Now im waiting for bucstop and prbucfan to show themselves.
October 13th, 2014 at 12:54 pm
Schiano got a bad deal, and folks were very wrong about him! We get what we get, when we cannot be patient enough to let a coach build his program. Each coach needs minimum of 5 years. If you fire that coach prior to his 5 years you set an organization back 2-3 years. No coaching consistency = current Bucs!
October 13th, 2014 at 12:54 pm
Hey, let me play! I will play offense…defense…special teams!! Just get me in there coach!
If you want to see some hard hits…I can fill those stands…sell out Raymond James and we will play some football!!
Time for a new coach….so many new Head Coaches out there with teams that are doing well. The Raiders were at least competitive yesterday! How about those Cleveland Browns!! Look at how tough the Dolphins played Green Bay!! The Arizona (who) Cardinals with a first year Head Coach!! The Indianapolis Coats! Shoot….even the Jacksonville Jaguars would be puttin a whuppin on Lovie and the boys!
No more excuses….either coach em up and get them to play or lets start looking for a new head coach!!
Put me in coach…I’m ready to play!
Tim Tebow
October 13th, 2014 at 12:55 pm
Folks, we are in the black hole of Bucs football. And considering the history of this organization, that’s saying something.
October 13th, 2014 at 12:57 pm
@joe
Can you write another article on david and what a beast he is? 14 tackles a few TFL. Dude is a great player.
October 13th, 2014 at 12:57 pm
It starts at the top. Fire the Glazers. They’re the ones hiring these coaches.
October 13th, 2014 at 12:59 pm
“It was definitely a fun day,” Flacco said. “You don’t get those too often in this league. … It was pretty crazy.”
October 13th, 2014 at 12:59 pm
Good post, Joe. I have the same questions and it’s frustrating because a football team can’t just keep firing coaches after one or two seasons and expect to build any continuity.
I have a feeling that there are still several players that are having difficulty grasping the defense, but on the other hand, I feel like maybe the scheme is unnecessarily complicated or convuluted. It’s incredibly frustrating and embarrassing to watch as a fan, because while I know the team has some superstar talent (Lavonte and McCoy) and some other solid pieces, they are almost dangerously thin at every position except RB, which isn’t helping when the offensive line can’t open up running lanes.
Just keep Glennon in for the rest of the season so the team can hopefully come to the correct conclusion in regards to the QB situation going into the 2015 draft. Outside of that, I’d like the blowouts to end and the crazy numbers (Flacco 5 TDs midway through the SECOND quarter!) that opponents are putting up on the Bucs to stop. I’m as optimistic as they come but this is just a pathetic farce.
And I can’t be the only one who had a small inkling of doubt and worry before the season, in fact, it was right after that novel length writeup on Lovie Smith was published on the Bucs website. That’s when I felt a bit uneasy and now I just feel sick about this team.
October 13th, 2014 at 1:00 pm
Lovie has built his own death trap….saying he won’t change….actually he has been a dead man walking since he stepped out of his basement. I don’t care if the G’Boyz have to pay 4 HC coaches at the same time….the quicker they get away from the Lovie the better…
October 13th, 2014 at 1:02 pm
Bring back schiano as DC.
October 13th, 2014 at 1:02 pm
Joe says:
“The Bucs are in a complete and total collapse, whether it be coaching or player evaluation.”
One of your better statements in the last several weeks
Collapse is the key word.
October 13th, 2014 at 1:03 pm
Casual Observer Says:
October 13th, 2014 at 12:57 pm
It starts at the top. Fire the Glazers. They’re the ones hiring these coaches.
_______________________________________
Our choices are:
1.) More of the same s**t sandwich we’ve had since Gruden.
2.) No NFL team.
Personally I’ll take number 2.
We could sue them pretty hard for breaking the lease at RayJay
and invest that money in education or whatever. Furthermore,
after watching the soccer-brats operate for so long I’ve come to
the conclusion that getting rid of the would be nothing but
positive for the local community. I think the money generated by
a community owned stradium would far outweigh any charities they
may have going.
Just my 2 cents.
GO FLUFFY PINK UNICORNS!
October 13th, 2014 at 1:04 pm
It’s time for another billboard on Dale Mabry.
October 13th, 2014 at 1:06 pm
Year after year after year.
Suck after suck after suck.
It’s just exhausting.
October 13th, 2014 at 1:07 pm
@Walkdaplank
“Is it me, or does Lovie show no passion, no intensity, no emotion at all?”
No it’s not just you, it’s Lovie. That’s just who he is! A Tony Dungy clone. I grew so disgusted with Dungy’s lack of apparent passion that I was happy when they sent him packing. And I say this with a ton of respect for TD. He was a great coach. He has a ring and so who am I to question his methods?
I’m fan, that’s who. But I’m tired of boring, uninspired football. Woody Hayes won a bunch of football games but nobody but Ohio State fans cared. His teams were incredibly boring and predictable.
That’s the worst part about the current fiasco. Lovie is a boring coach. He may yet be a good coach, we’ll see, but he doesn’t inspire excitement. What’s next Clyde Christiansen as OC?
Dungy was boring, Lovie is boring, the ONLY thing you can hope for with this regime is more wins. Winning is the only thing because even if they win it will probably be ugly.
October 13th, 2014 at 1:08 pm
mike n Says:
Lovie’s D is as obsolete as the clock radio.
————————————-
Funny, sad, true.
Lovie is obsolete too.
Joe, I’m not sure Lovie ever had this team to lose in the first place. Player’s coach? Nah…
October 13th, 2014 at 1:08 pm
@Meh
You must miss Frank Middleton. What a character. When he was playing for the Bucs after one of these total beatdowns he claimed we should simply change our names from the Tampa Bay Bucs to the Tampa Bay Sucks. Still works to this day.
October 13th, 2014 at 1:15 pm
PFDOR – OK – No. 2. Let the Glazers take the team to London. Turn RJ into, not a soccer stadium (though that’s better than a sucker stadium) – but turn in into a baseball stadium. The Rays would love the location and the great parking.
October 13th, 2014 at 1:17 pm
He was hired because of his past ties to the Bucs and because fans knew his name…. He was not hired because he is some great HC or he would never have been fired…. It is not like his record is outstanding with numerous wins and championships as some fans claim it to be….
The owners stayed true to their reputation and made yet another colossal blunder at HC hiring… Now the fans are stuck with this horrible decision and the players are stuck playing before empty seats…
Maybe, just maybe, something will happen to where all the stars will align just right and the next HC hired will be “THE ONE” the Bucs have been needing to propel them into years of winning football and even championships…. That cannot come soon enough!
October 13th, 2014 at 1:23 pm
@Casual Observer
Baseball is dead in this market no matter where you place a stadium. But for those of you who believe baseball could work in Tampa here is your solution.
Tampa trades the Yankees Spring Training to St. Petersburg for the Rays. The Rays redo the Yankees spring training facility and bring it up to MLB standards. They have the single BEST LOCATION in all of Tampa Bay. They could get those vaunted “commuters” who might stop off on the trip back to N Tampa from work.
St. Pete gets what it should have. Baseball as a tourist sport. The Yankees get to return to where they had their greatest Spring training days. Al Lang gets a major redo with a giant Yankees paraphernalia store. Yankee fans can vacation in our tourist spot, the Tampans get their MLB in the “working” part of the community.
Hey I think baseball is dead…too slow…too boring for today’s young folks…but if you want it to have a chance I’ve just outlined the best scenario.
October 13th, 2014 at 1:24 pm
First off I’ll start off by saying I as a fan gladly appreciate what I see from this team as far as improvement from the past. Lovie in the new GM actually may have found the pieces to the puzzle to build a playoff team. What most “die hard bucs fans” don’t see is the things that matters the most
A we have mike G
B we have McCoy
C we have Evans ASJ Murphy Jackson Herron Martin David
Foster goldson Barron Verner Banks Johnson McDonald Mankins
These are role players 8 of those players came with the new coach and gm that will define his success as a Gm he’s off to a great start if you ask me from what I see because I never been excited about the bucs since 2009 YEAR OF THE Free “dope” man!! Lol. To make a long story short after this bye week the bucs will get 10 wins this year in make the playoff because they have the talent to do so against the remaining 10 teams they face.. lovie was handed the team that was only missing 8 more real role playes that will make a difference in a real game. I will be the first to say buckle up because the buccaneers are about to shock the world once mile glennon gets his running back Charles sims back.. The diamond the bucs are missing..this bye week in Charles sims coming back will make everything jell a puzzle can’t be completed unless all the pieces are available
October 13th, 2014 at 1:25 pm
Joke. Why cant we get a coach that devises schemes based on the talent on the roster instead of the other way around.
Raheem did it with making the guys get fatter to fit that dumb shceme he thought might work
Gruden did it with all the shuffling of qb’s etc. He would never change.
And now lovie. maybe the most stubborn of the group.
Why cant we get an innovator, Maybe Gary kubiak. Kubiak Kubiak anyone
Kubiak anyone? Kubiak anyone?
October 13th, 2014 at 1:27 pm
Remember “there is light at the end of the tunnel”! Yeah, I think it must be an exit sign….
October 13th, 2014 at 1:31 pm
Schiano for GM. Make Schiano Lovie’s boss. Then watch accountability go sky high.
October 13th, 2014 at 1:39 pm
Lovie looked at this team and said all I need is a few pieces on D, so he went out and got them. He felt the D was set. So he went all O in the draft.
Again I’ll repeat Lovie Smith felt the defense was set with the right players. That equals a major failure on his part right there. The lack of adjusting is just the sugar(or sh*t) on top.
October 13th, 2014 at 1:44 pm
Such stupidity generated here it is simply overwhelming and so easily dsmissed by using real empirical data and not wild hysteria.
But why bother when the audience is more ignorant and stupid than the people they are calling stupid and ignorant.
“Isn’t it ironic, just the same,” Alanis Morisette.
October 13th, 2014 at 1:44 pm
This is the third coach the players appear to be quiting on. Regardless if it’s true or not, the question has to be asked; How can the same issues come up under Raheem, Schiano and now Lovie? What type of coach is needed to get this mess straightened out? Raheem lacked discipline, Schiano was too overbearing and Lovie supposedly had the players respect. The result is the same. I will give Lovie the rest of the season to show he can make this team hard working and competetitve. The early results aren’t promising and the likely solution could be a complete culture change, yet again.
October 13th, 2014 at 1:47 pm
I have to laugh at the people that keep talking about we should have draft Manziel. The kid is a backup.
October 13th, 2014 at 1:51 pm
Well, Lovie and Licht got one personnel decision right. Mike Williams is already asking for a trade after being inactive yesterday.
October 13th, 2014 at 2:01 pm
I never saw the team quit on Schiano. I don’t know why fans continue to say that.
October 13th, 2014 at 2:04 pm
@NTChris
I also give them credit for Mankins. He hasn’t fixed the OLINE by himself but I think Licht got the better of that deal. We’ve been talking about a stud on the line…Mankins is that guy if he has enough tread left. He’s getting a big old and worn but I think he’s been the only bright spot of all the new guys we’ve brough in. I’m not as down on Verner as others either. Verner can play, he’s just not the single guy who is going to make a huge impact.
October 13th, 2014 at 2:07 pm
Buccoon …dear lord and what if another puzzle piece goes missing? Did you ever think of that smart guy?
I hope your post was sarcasm, but I’ve been called the king of sarcasm by a few people in my lifetime, so I don’t think it was.
October 13th, 2014 at 2:29 pm
@87
hmmm, I like it
October 13th, 2014 at 2:34 pm
It isn’t lovie.
A lot of this is because we lost Tedford. No way is Arroyo experienced enough, or qualified enough- to be an offensive co-ordinator.
Especially running someone else’s offense.
losing Tedford killed our season.
But the biggest problem is the Team
It sucked. No talent, no depth.
Dominick, Raheem, and Schiano were far to inexperienced to do the jobs they were hired to do. They each had huge fundamental flaws
And now we pay for it.
You don’t miss on that many draft picks, for that many years, without crippling a team
We need an OC, and at least another draft or two, to get the talent up to competitive levels
Need at least one De- who can rush QB. We got nothing
This was our first good draft in a decade.
Gonna need more
That’s the sad truth no one wants to face
October 13th, 2014 at 2:38 pm
Firing the coach every couple of years is no way to build a winner. However, its the only thing Buc fans can look forward to.
October 13th, 2014 at 2:39 pm
DEBARTALO FAMILY WHERE ARE YOU !!!!!
October 13th, 2014 at 2:45 pm
I hate looking at Lovie during sundays, but i hate the press conference more. He’s so dumbfounded
October 13th, 2014 at 2:45 pm
@thetruth
Interesting point. All of the good things to happen to the Bucs all happened when Malcolm was healthy and involved. Not so much when the three sons have been making the decisions…
October 13th, 2014 at 3:28 pm
There are so many issues with this team….where do you even start?
QB? Glennon now has 16 career starts under his belt…his numbers for that “rookie season” are 328-558 (58.8%), for 3,594 yds, 26TD’s – 12INT’s. This is where you start your evaluation. Pretty good numbers for a “rookie season”….If we had drafted Manziel or Bortles and they had put up these numbers over their first 16 starts, we’d all be talking about the bright future of our QB position is…but back to Glennon… We all know he has trouble with pressure, dinks and dunks a lot, and he takes more sacks than he should, but he is still young and can learn how to handle these with proper coaching (Remember when Peyton Manning had 28 picks his rookie year? (And NO , I am not comparing Glennon to the greatest QB of the modern era!). Glennon is FAR from the biggest problem the Bucs have this season….is he a future Elite QB…yet to be seen….but he ain’t the biggest leak in this boat!
So where else do we look?….We have huge problems with coaching, play-calling, schemes, adjustments, talent, lack of quality depth, and team speed. Our O-line is SWISS CHEESE! They can’t protect our QB and they can’t open holes in the run game! Mankins MIGHT be the only one worthy of returning next year…and even he is not showing the pro-bowl form he showed in NE. I think you could scrap the ENTIRE O-Line and rebuild next year, and not be as bad as they are this season! …Evans, V-Jax, ASJ and Murphy are all promising pass catchers, but they have ALL dropped easy passes this year! Doug Martin had regressed steadily from 2 years ago! Rainey might be our best offensive weapon! On Defense, who would you keep other than 4 or 5 guys? LVD, GMC, McDonald, Verner and Gholtson maybe? That’s only 5 DECENT guys on the whole defense….the rest are not worthy of being starters, and our backups are bush leaguers at best!!
If I was in charge of this team, I would be out today looking to hire a new OC to finish out this season…the Tedford/Arroyo experiment is a total bust….and I would strongly be leaning toward a new Head Coach and Def. Coordinator for next season. I would also be taking the Bucs top 1-5 pick in the draft next year and looking to trade down to pick up a few extra selections! We need all the young talent we can get! Maybe in 2-3 years we can be competitive again, but a major house cleaning is needed…AGAIN…before we are anything other than a perennial “bottom dweller”!
As a Bucs fan it makes me sad to say all that, but the truth hurts sometimes!
October 13th, 2014 at 3:43 pm
OHHHH NOOOO WE SUCK AGAIN.
October 13th, 2014 at 3:48 pm
Everyday I wish this washed up has been coach would go away…his defense is a dinosaur and he’s lost touch with reality
October 13th, 2014 at 4:09 pm
I can’t believe some of you knuckleheads are asking for Schiano to come back in some capacity.
I don’t know what all of the problems are, but something with each of our lines is not working correctly. It all starts up front.
October 13th, 2014 at 4:33 pm
Yeah, it’s a terrible defense for 2014. It’s the exact same defense as what the Cowboys run, and very similar to the Seahawks, Panthers, and Jaguars… and everybody knows those teams all suck on defense. Most of the problem is with the play of the DBs. Off coverage with no LB presence in the passing lanes is a recipe for disaster. T-2 coverage at the CB position is supposed to involve jamming and rerouting WRs… not letting them run untouched down seams and over the middle.
October 13th, 2014 at 7:37 pm
I know this is a crazy idea but what about switching lavonte to mike linebacker to cover the middle of the field?
October 13th, 2014 at 9:06 pm
we did not make a significant play until game was over
October 13th, 2014 at 9:19 pm
I don’t think the idea is that crazy Pierce but the Cover 2 is actually designed for the weakside LB to take more responsibility which is where David already resides.
I’d like to see Baron moved up to the MLB position in passing situations and use this dime package in all passing situations.
Neither one of our MLB’s can cover and I swear Foster is the worst of the two.
All Foster had to do yesterday was to drop back two yards and move over one and stick his hand out and he would have deflected two TD passes.
Instead he stood there flat footed like his was standing in cement.
BTW, Chicago’s last great MLB who played in the Cover 2 was a converted safety from college.. Sorry I forgot his name.
October 14th, 2014 at 2:46 am
The Truth sez: “DEBARTALO FAMILY WHERE ARE YOU !!!!!”
New Tampa Chris said: @thetruth
Interesting point. All of the good things to happen to the Bucs all happened when Malcolm was healthy and involved. Not so much when the three sons have been making the decisions…
You guys are both right on concerning the state of Tampa Bay football since Malcolm had the stroke, this team has regressed to the point of laughingstock ever since the kids took over team operations! They have always been behind the curve and it led to the Bucs only leading the NFL in ineptitude and # of games blacked out (cheap Glazer kids went Culverhouse and would not by up remaining tickets to lift blackouts). Speaking of Culverhouse: this team is a bad franchise right now, as bad as it has been since New Tampa was just cypress swamp and scrub pine back when good old Hugh Culverhouse was jerking the fans around with his cheap tightwad ways and making us have to contend with the likes of Leeman Bennett and throwing draft picks away on busts like Jack Thompson or a has been like Steve DeBerg or getting Bo Jackson to sign with the Royals instead of playing in Tampa while that damned tax attorney was laughing all the way to the bank….
Imagine a team owned by Eddie DeBartolo; first of all I doubt the Bucs would be this bad year after year, yeah there might be that one initial bad season when the new ownership installed its new front office and coaching regime but I can almost guarantee things would be better than they are now, Christ they can not be any worse than they are now under the baby Glazers….. DeBartolo would put a competitive product on the field and lets face it, baby Glazers are more concerned with Man United than Buc football, there’s more money invested across the pond and all they care about is the bottom line: the coin! Will the Bucs move if sold to DeBartolo? I doubt it, he is a Tampa guy now and would probably like the opportunity to build another dynasty and he does remember how much $ can be made here in Tampa if the Bucs simply do one damned thing like they did from the end of 1996 until the end of the Gruden era: win!!! LA will get a team but its more probable that it will be the return of the Rams or Raiders and London may get the Jags but only for a home game or 2 a year as the logistics for a full time team based in the UK are impossible to contend with….