Are Bowers And Clayborn “For Sale?”
May 1st, 2014
Pat Kirwan of SiriusXM NFL Radio wondered aloud if Bucs DE Adrian Clayborn is “for sale.”
Now Joe has already brought up a possibility — nothing more than that — the Bucs could be shopping running back Doug Martin in order to stock up on valuable draft picks for next week’s draft. Martin, for a third-year guy, already has a lot of wear and tear on his tires and is coming off an ugly shoulder injury.
With the Bucs being deep at running back and some team dangling draft picks for Martin, would Bucs coach Lovie Smith nibble at the bait?
Yes, Joe has taken all sorts of flack about his speculation. But perhaps Lovie and general manager Jason Licht are floating a couple of names other than Martin to other clubs?
Tuesday on “Movin’ the Chains,” heard exclusively on SiriusXM NFL Radio, co-hosts Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller wondered aloud if they are reading the Bucs wrong and instead of grabbing a quarterback or offensive lineman or wide receiver at No. 7, the Bucs may be targeting a pass rusher. And to make room for said pass rusher Tampa Bay is dangling Da’Quan Bowers and/or Adrian Clayborn as trade bait to either get more picks, or perhaps move up from No. 7.
Jim Miller: The reason why I am bringing up the Tampa Bay Bucs is I’m wondering if we have this team figured out wrong for the upcoming 2014 NFL draft because Lovie Smith was recently in the news down there in the Tampa Tribune — and this is atypical of Lovie — singling out a couple of players saying, “Hey, Da’Quan Bowers needs to prove he is a good football player.” We all knew about him coming out in the draft and thought he would drop to the second round because of the knee issue. Now you have a new coach with a new style of defense and I think there is a lot to prove. Both he and Adrian Clayborn, they haven’t slapped him with the fifth-year option, either. Is a pass rusher in the mix for Tampa Bay? Does someone like Anthony Barr out of UCLA fit that bill?
Pat Kirwan: We know our friend, Lovie, it is not his style to step out and say things about players. He is now, in my mind, the GM as well. He is kind of running the whole show and he senses that and all the responsibility. He did not draft Clayborn. He did not draft Bowers. Lovie was in the league then. He was looking for players. He studied Clayborn. He studied Bowers. He may have said he didn’t want them then for all we know. Or he may have said he expected more out of them than what he was seeing, they were better prospects than what they are. Is he trying to push their buttons? He is not going to be able to tell in shorts from now until the draft if they are going to be better. He also signed Michael Johnson so maybe Lovie is trying to tell the rest of the world they are for sale?
Joe thinks Kirwan is on to something. It’s not like Bowers and Clayborn appeared out of the blue. Lovie likely did his homework on them in Chicago.
Look, if Bowers needs a fire lit under him at this point, then he really is a lost cause. He should have read the tea leaves by now seeing many of his former teammates jettisoned in the past couple of months. Now on his third coach and with a pass-rush friendly position coach, if Bowers, who was injured (again) during last week’s minicamp, can’t figure out it is time to fish and cut bait, then he is beyond hope.
Clayborn is a little different situation. He showed promise as a rookie but hasn’t duplicated that success and also suffered an ugly knee injury two years ago. It could be that either he was slow to recover or maybe never be able to recover. Not being allowed to rush consistently the passer sure muddies the water here.
L&L have made no secret they not only are driven to get heat on quarterbacks, they are hunting for a way to get additional draft picks. If a team is willing to take Bowers and/or Clayborn to move up a slot or two in order for Lovie to get a pass rusher, or use them in a trade down to amass additional picks, then Kirwan might be on to something. That maybe these players really are “for sale.”
May 1st, 2014 at 7:24 am
Not for sale but yard sale! and if Lovie cannot get rid of them he will hold a raffle, after that he will leave them and just drive off!
L & L would love to get anything at this point for these 2. The problem is why trade picks for something that will be “free” before training camp. These 2 have a very real chance of being replaced by draft picks or even college free-agency after the draft, I am sure that Lovie can replace what these 2 have done with some college free-agents.
May 1st, 2014 at 7:49 am
@TBR
AC deal is guaranteed this season so if we cut him it’s just going to be dead money against the cap(no benefit to it)… Bowers we would save around 900k which he is on an extremely cheap deal so I doubt they cut him… Trading either or both yes I can see that… But they will not be cut..
May 1st, 2014 at 7:54 am
What GM would be dumb enough to trade draft picks for these 2 guys? Neither of them have shown anything. Their value is beyond low. What are you gonna get? a 7th round pick, maybe a 6th if you’re lucky. Both guys have major knee problems among other physical issues and both have under performed. IMO there’s no chance of selling these guys for anything.
May 1st, 2014 at 8:04 am
@phillip
AC – contract is $1,494,567 (guaranteed). His cash against the cap is $570,000. You are telling me that Lovie will not walk away from that to get a real pass rusher a roster spot.
AC might play for the Bucs this year, But it will be because they needed more picks to replace him, Which will happen next year if not this year. The clock is ticking.
May 1st, 2014 at 8:07 am
I forget, we’re these two steals or fleeces?
May 1st, 2014 at 8:11 am
@TBR
I don’t know where you are getting your info from but…
http://www.overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=Adrian%20Clayborn&Position=43DE&Team=Buccaneers
Like I said no reason to cut him if his dead money is exactly what his contract is… Bowers you only save 900k… Don’t think either will be CUT… But could be traded.
May 1st, 2014 at 8:14 am
I don’t get this article at all. Who is going to trade anything for either of these two? Getting a decent pick for Martin is even doubtful.
Injured players are meat. That’s why players hold out for new contracts, i.e. new signing bonuses.
May 1st, 2014 at 8:19 am
Dont you need buyers to be able to sell something?
May 1st, 2014 at 8:26 am
Whoa, I don’t mind talking Bowers as a trade option but AC is a good player! Is he an elite pass rusher? No. Is he a high effort physical player? Yes. I think that AC will lead theBucs in sacks from LE this coming year. If you trade him it is Michael Bennett all over again. Stop looking at stat lines and start watching football, he is a good player.
May 1st, 2014 at 8:36 am
You guys just do not get it.
Bowers will have to fight to make the final roster.
Clayborn will have to screw up to not make the roster. Right now, he is making backkup money. As a backup, he is worth keeping…especially since he could thrive undder the new defense.
All teams are open to trade offers for all of their players. Listening doesn’t mean shopping. If a team were to offer a worthwhile trade, then any second or third tear player might be traded.
Heck, if enough is offered, even most of our best players could be traded.
If a team were to offer a first rounder for Martin, he likely would be sent packing. Same with Vincent Jackson.
May 1st, 2014 at 8:43 am
I’d like to at least see what these two can do first, but while I have virtually no faith in Lovie the offensive talent evaluator I trust him completely to know who is a good fit for his and Frazier’s defense
May 1st, 2014 at 8:44 am
@phillip
this is what i looked up, which says bonus is all paid up
http://www.overthecap.com/player-cash.php?Name=Adrian%20Clayborn&Position=43DE&Team=Buccaneers
I think you link is the correct one though, But i don’t think it will stop lovie from replacing AC who will not be with the team next year. At some point we need pass rushers and not guys who will save cap dollars.
A high motor just means you cannot get to the QB in time. It great he keeps trying, but at some point you have to get pressure.
May 1st, 2014 at 8:47 am
The new regime is really stirring the pot before the draft. All the Manziel praise in the news. I could see a team giving Tampa a 3rd pick for Martin. Clayborn would not get higher than 5th at best. Bowers is untradable.
My guess is L&L hope Manziel is on the board at 7 and some team leverages the farm to get him. As much as I would like to JF in Tampa. I don’t think they will pull the trigger on him.
May 1st, 2014 at 8:53 am
Would seem like a waste letting Martin go for anything less than a late round 1 pick. The Browns fleeced the Colts for that for a RB that was drafted ahead of Doug but hasn’t played nearly as well
May 1st, 2014 at 9:21 am
Bowers and Clayborn have no trade value. They should be worth more to the Bucs coaching staff than they are to others. In each case they were high picks recognized league wide to have skills. They have not produced. Any coaching staff with an ounce of pride should feel they can draw that skill out of these players. If fans are desperate for a trade, offer something someone may want. How about Martin, or David. Now you will get some offers. Personally I would rather see us draft well and develop what we have on the roster.
May 1st, 2014 at 9:56 am
After the roster purge, I would say almost no player is safe, except McCoy, David and the newly signed free agents. By not exercising the option on Clayborn, he essentially becomes a one year player regardless of what happens. If he underperforms, he will likely be cut. If he plays lights out, he will be highly sought after in free agency and unlikely to re-sign with the Bucs. I think Lovie would jump at the chance to trade him if the right deal presented itself.
Bowers had the opportunity to prove himself last year. The guy showed up to training camp out of shape and unprepared to seize the opportunity handed to him by the previous regime. I think his time has come and gone in Tampa, barring a miraculous turnaround.
The notion of Martin being traded to add draft picks isn’t far fetched. Unfortunately, it’s the current state of the RB position in the NFL. They don’t command a lot of value and most of them are fairly easy to replace. Martin is still young and one of the better backs in the league right now. I would prefer to see him play for the Bucs, but if the trade compensation is right, I could see Lovie pulling the trigger. The problem is the trade market seems to be weak. Most of the high profile players available for trade this offseason were outright released after failing to find a trade partner.
May 1st, 2014 at 9:59 am
@Bonzai- You hit the nail on the head, my friend. All players can be traded.
I agree, Clayborn is literally a steal for what his salary is and what his potential can be. He’d have to really screw things up not to be starting at LE this year. Bowers, on the other hand, has shown zero. The fact that he showed up injured to OTAs and could not participate surely means a quick exit for him. Because he has a low salary as well, he could be retained for depth IF he can show anything of promise.
Trading Martin is still just stupid to me. For all the promise he has shown, I doubt seriously that you could easily replace him. Just my opinion.
May 1st, 2014 at 10:01 am
@TBR
Oh I’m not disagreeing that they will be replaced.. Just not till next year or if they are traded… I know the year we drafted AC I was mad because I wanted Cameron Jordan… Bowers just can’t stay healthy unfortunately.. Not really because of his knee either which is crazy…
May 1st, 2014 at 10:05 am
Martin = Heck no
AC = No
Bowers = For a bag of chips
May 1st, 2014 at 10:07 am
JOE,Where do you get yor facts bout Martin ,dude played 1 1/2 season and he has wear and tear already. If anything he rested that half year and not like the shoulder injury is car ending… Kid is young and was i believe a #1 pick and proved to be worthy of it after his first season. If there is trade i would be for a #1, especaily with the waness of RB daft. S
Whats next trade L.David for a 6th round pick cause he has tackled to many people and his body wont be able to keep up..
I LIKE TO SEE BOWERS AND AC ,with this new system unless they can get a high pick or help them move up
May 1st, 2014 at 10:07 am
When the Bower we are excited to see is Jack Bauer, something ain’t right. I wear my #91 Highway Robbery t-shirt when I change oil!!
May 1st, 2014 at 10:09 am
Despite what people think players are safe if they have enough guaranteed money on their contract where it causes more of a cap hit (dead money) than just keeping them on the roster (Mark Sanchez anyone?)… Now they aren’t safe from being traded but that still means they are wanted by another team for a reason… So we can stop the anyone can be cut nonsense
May 1st, 2014 at 10:23 am
Clayborn: 1 year on contract means nobody trading anything for him, maybe a 6th or 7th like MW19
Bowers: no way any body wants to trade for him, just wait until we cut him and sign him for free, his health rules out a trade for sure
Martin: RB’s are devalued in $$$ and draft terms, true. But once you have 1 who’s good and not overpaid, why trade him away? To roll the dice using a pick to replace him, foolishness. Teams know RB’s are still important once the whistle blows, just not necessary to pay a lot in terms of cash and draft pick terms
May 1st, 2014 at 10:27 am
From part of the “lasting contenders” to untradeable bums.
May 1st, 2014 at 10:37 am
I’ll be glad when the draft finally gets here and all of this speculation stops about who will draft who, who’s on the trade block, who’s due for a break-out year, etc.
Oh wait, the speculation NEVER stops, does it. Seems like too many pundits read too much into what coaches and GMs say.
Example: Lovie’s words “Hey, Da’Quan Bowers needs to prove he is a good football player.”
Seems like I’ve heard Lovie’s mentor, Tony Dungy, issue a ‘challenge’ in an attempt to light a fire under more than one player. Heck, he did that with Sapp.
May 1st, 2014 at 11:00 am
Remember, Mark Dominik was able to swindle a second round pick for Gaines Adams.
May 1st, 2014 at 11:28 am
Without defensive pressure on the quarterback, your defense is toothless !When the quarterback is more worried about getting hit than delivering the ball, it’s all over. Defense wins ! While it’s worth while to have good corners and safeties, it’s the front 7 that wins games !
May 1st, 2014 at 11:57 am
This is nothing but pure speculation. Besides, the Bucs have already taken two-steps back at WR with only the hope of improving with one-step forward once they traded Williams, it would be just plain stupid to take that approach at DE too.
We’ve all read over and over how Lovie’s defense will be about freeing up the DL to get after the QB with speed and power rather than running stunts. If that’s as significant as we’ve been told, then why jettison either of these guys? Give them at least a one year chance to be “all they can be”, what they were in college and highly projected to be as pros, impact DE’s.
May 1st, 2014 at 12:43 pm
Joe Says:
May 1st, 2014 at 11:00 am
“Remember, Mark Dominik was able to swindle a second round pick for Gaines Adams.”
Joe and who did he swindle? Yep the Bears.
May 1st, 2014 at 12:45 pm
Bear the Bucs….please keep explaining to Buc fans what defense is all about. For we have no clue. We’ve never seen a dominant defense before.
May 1st, 2014 at 12:53 pm
The “swindle” was due to an undiagnosed enlarged heart condition, which killed the man.
And the second rounder we got was wasted.
May 1st, 2014 at 1:02 pm
The swindle was because he sucked for the Bucs prior to the heart problem and getting a 2nd rounder for him was a miracle.