A Slippery Slope
April 7th, 2014
If Mike Williams was traded for nickel and dime nonsense, should Akeem Spence be worried after putting lives in danger?
Joe is still trying to piece together the puzzle the Bucs created for themselves by trading No. 2 receiver Mike Williams to Buffalo for a sixth-round pick.
Yes, Joe knows Bucs coach Lovie Smith had put his foot ,saying he was “not going to put up” with all repeated distractions– let’s be honest here, trivial distractions — caused by Williams and family.
Mattress in the yard? Stripper pole (allegedly) in the living room? Loud music? A kitchen fire? Joe never realized these were high crimes against society, and Joe is having a hard time figuring out how they can undermine a football squad. It’s not like Williams was regularly dragged off to jail in cuffs or, you know, speed-bagging a cabbie going down the road 55 mph.
Apparently, Joe isn’t the only one perplexed by the trade, which was executed not quite two weeks after Williams got knifed by his brother. So too is Leo Howell of SBNation.com. He had an outstanding breakdown of the Williams trade and the its ramifications. Howell believes Lovie is now treading a very slippery slope with his players.
(BTW, Joe on Twitter last week trashed SBNation for running blatant lies that fools call “April’s Fools jokes.” Lies are not jokes. At least the Bucs’ site there wrote one that was so over the top it was obvious from the first sentence. Yeah, you can mock Joe for what he does and there are a lot of people who would erupt in glee if Joe ever decided to retire this site, but at least Joe does not and will not knowingly publish blatant falsehoods and lies, like one of the top college quarterbacks in the country was transferring and the phony trade of Pro Bowl player. That’s simply outrageous and Joe hopes whoever typed and Twittered those two stories is reprimanded. Think Joe will go to those two sites for news? Hell no!)
Williams was traded for off-the-field reasons that include no violent crimes, no drug busts, and nothing but signs of an immature young man with too much time on his hands.
Will this be the new standard in Tampa Bay? Will players who make the headlines for any reason other than football be on their way out as quickly as they arrived? If so, where does that leave Akeem Spence, who was arrested for speeding and drug possession earlier this offseason?
It’s a slippery slope to get rid of a talented player because he was immature off the field, because while it does set an example for other players as to how they should behave, it also means the Bucs’ front office has drawn a line as to what is acceptable behavior and what is not.
Let’s say Lovie cuts Spence (he hasn’t yet), Spence is not a critical player on Lovie’s defense. Williams was a critical player on the offense. And in an area the Bucs aren’t the strongest (Vincent Jackson is 31 and the stat nerds don’t like him), wide receiver is now easily the weakest area on the roster.
Let’s be honest here: Allegedly driving 100 mph with weed in the car (feel free to do some math there) puts lives in danger, especially Spence’s. Joe knows of no one who has been hospitalized as the result of a mattress in the front yard or a stripper pole (allegedly) in the living room or loud music.
As the offense is currently constructed, with the exception of Doug Martin and Vincent Jackson, there are question marks all over the place.
If the Bucs rid themselves of Williams because he was hanging with rappers, then how is that different than the Eagles reportedly wanting to distance themselves from DeSean Jackson because they thought maybe he was flashing gang signs? Are people really that paranoid over Aaron Hernandez?
April 7th, 2014 at 7:15 am
There is surely more to this than we know and we may never know. For all we know, Lovie or Licht talked to MW19 & he told them to stuff it!!
Perhaps it’s related to his injury coupled with his behavior. The bottom line is at least we got something for him and we freed up some cap space.
I’m one for trusting Lovie to make the right moves until he prooves otherwise.
April 7th, 2014 at 7:18 am
Here’s a novel thought. Maybe the Bucs just felt he was over-compensated for his skill set and dependabilty and just wished to rid themselves of another Dominik contract.
April 7th, 2014 at 7:29 am
Did he really get traded because of his down time behavior or was this a result of trying to clear more cap space by removing someone recently given a new contract? We keep hearing how deep the draft is at WR I’m sure this was purely a money move.
April 7th, 2014 at 7:31 am
Typical idiotic JB column. Preponderance of evidence that Williams is a bad actor. Obviously Joe has low standards for the behavior of his family, if indeed he has one.
April 7th, 2014 at 7:31 am
Standing before a number of local and some national media, Buccaneers co-chairman Joel Glazer talked about a number of subjects, but the Mike Williams situation was the first one the media wanted his thoughts on.
“Obviously we are disappointed when anything like that happens to one of our players,” Glazer said. “It is one of those things that is still ongoing, an ongoing investigation,” Glazer said. “We are still trying to gather information. But it is not something we like to be part of our organization. It distracts from our team and the positive things we are doing”.
Anybody got more questions?
April 7th, 2014 at 7:41 am
If trading Williams means we pass on Johnny Boy and draft Evans, there will be done dark days on this site.
April 7th, 2014 at 7:46 am
Their has more about this story than we know because it honestly makes no sense to trade a guy that’s 25 years old and because he parties at his house were just going to get rid of him. I don’t believe that i think lovie smith has more dirt on Williams as far as last year when their was reports that he wasn’t showing up to rehab assignments
April 7th, 2014 at 7:48 am
You now quote Leo Howell?? LOL
April 7th, 2014 at 7:50 am
While the one site may publish an annual April Fool’s column, they don’t incessantly bang the drum for one particular potential draft pick, which, in and of itself, is foolish, no matter the month.
April 7th, 2014 at 7:54 am
This is getting stupid. Who cares and talented?
MY GOD WHAT HAS THIS GUY DONE SO FAR IN HIS CAREER?
Rank or rate him against his peers not just what we’ve had in Tampa. What’s the agenda here?
The NFL made nothing of this transaction and only posts three links about a “troubled player” not a talented player. Joe you did the same with Freeman when he started spiraling – not you don’t necessarily posts lies but it’s becoming more agenda based than anything.
Please find Joe one person who thought Mark Dominik was out of his mind when he gave Williams a contract extension? Heck, Williams’ NFL peers ranked as the 83rd best player in the league after the 2010 season. He is a proven and legitimate No. 2 receiver in the NFL. And you seem to be another person who doesn’t know what “agenda” means or likes to invent things. Joe writes about what interests Joe. That’s what Joe does here. –Joe
April 7th, 2014 at 7:57 am
“Joe knows of no one who has been hospitalized as the result of a mattress in the front yard”
Obviously you are not a fan of back yard wrasslin. My favorite is the Green Bastard from parts unknown.
April 7th, 2014 at 7:57 am
I think it’s safe to say no one cares and the local radio doesn’t even talk about this player. Make him own his foolishness and behavior not question facts!
I’m glad you don’t run the Bucs!
April 7th, 2014 at 7:58 am
Huge contract + poor play last season + half ass rehab effort + getting himself in paper + wasn’t as good as the money he got to begin with =
Trade for sixth rounder.
Easily replaceable. Not a speed in space guy at all.
Mucho reasons.
April 7th, 2014 at 8:02 am
I blame Mike ( house-party ) Williams, If he could of laid low this off-season Lovie/Licht could have gotten a 4th-5th round pick instead of the lowly 6th round pick.
April 7th, 2014 at 8:05 am
Arent you overlooking a number of reports from One Buc that Williams was consistently late to meetings, and after suffering his season ending injury did not take his rehab seriously either? Is it not possible that those things plus the off the field incidents are what combined to make this decision?
Yes, Joe’s overlooking that because Joe doesn’t consider them relevant or necessarily completely accurate.-Joe
April 7th, 2014 at 8:06 am
why don’t we wait and see how this play out before,pass judgment.
April 7th, 2014 at 8:06 am
“Joe never realized these were high crimes against society, and Joe is having a hard time figuring out how they can undermine a football squad.”
Joe has obviously never had a truly obnoxious neighbor. Williams behavior was beyond crude it interrupted the peace and harmony in a neighborhood where people had invested substantial sums including life savings to achieve that peace.
Joe’s had his share of bad neighbors. Joe never thought they should be transferred from their jobs as a result.–Joe
Getting in a domestic dispute that results in a knife wound is FAR MORE VIOLENT than smacking a cabbie in the back of the head.
But another pundit made a point that Joe linked to earlier. Williams was not all that freaking talented. Yes some acrobatic catches. He was SLOW for a Wideout and there are probably at least a dozen kids in this year’s draft every bit as talented.
The MW trade is one of the best L&L have made. And I don’t care if MW gets a 1000 yards this year I shall still applaud the trade.
I would take Joe’s point about an immature kid with too much time on his hands but MW is a serial offender here. When does it stop.
And the link is also full of it. Lovie could simply establish a 3 strikes and your gone rule. Both MW, Talib, and Winslow would have gotten the heave ho early.
April 7th, 2014 at 8:07 am
I believe the immaturity along with the financial commitment was the issue.. After this year, his price tag jumped tremendously. If he couldn’t make quality decisions with fourth round money what would he do with the contract extension where he landed the money. This draft class is the class to pick up WR so it was a long term move. By trading him there is no cap hit as it would have been if we cut him next year..
April 7th, 2014 at 8:10 am
Come on folks. The previous regime wanted to get rid of him as well. Obviously the media is not getting the full story. Probably due to legal ramifications. Its not like other teams were beating down the door to acquire him.
April 7th, 2014 at 8:11 am
My favorite is the Green Bastard from parts unknown.
__________
Sounds like he’s from Green Bay. Those Green Bastards are the most annoying fans.
April 7th, 2014 at 8:15 am
Williams played better than his 4th round selection. I think returning to his home town may help him with his off field issues, and Bucs fans will probably turn on Lovie and Licht complaining how our rookie GM got fleeced.
April 7th, 2014 at 8:26 am
I don’t know how the new regime will replace such a mediocre #3 receiver.
April 7th, 2014 at 8:27 am
Nobody was hospitalized? Well, except Mike himself which was from a stab wound.
And while no a stripper pole in the den and a mattress in the yard don’t hurt anyone physically, they sure are indictable of the character of the person. Both are shameful and let’s be honest, not exactly classy.
April 7th, 2014 at 8:29 am
Fear not, the draft will yield a receiver of better quality than Mike Williams. Jackson is still a stud. As for Slot, hopefully they again go for one in this receiver deep draft. A draft that yielded a solid receiver like A&M’s Evans and speed merchant like Oregon’s Huff would leave us well set a receiver. This is the year to grab receivers. Get them while the getting is good. Then if they also can get their choice for QB of the future somewhere in this draft. The only glaring hole left would be at Right Guard. Hopefully they will grab the still available Wharton in free agency. If they could pull off these moves they will have done a hell of a job of reconstruction.
April 7th, 2014 at 8:30 am
DeSean Jackson getting cut had much more, if not totally, to do with his bad attitude and diva behavior with staff and coaches than the gang affiliation angle. There’s been several reports about it.
Unless Lovie/Licht gave out printed reasons for MW’s trade, who knows what else could have gone on to trigger the move. Bottom line, I trust these guys decision making more than the media’s speculation.
April 7th, 2014 at 8:32 am
Who says spence even makes the team?
Williams had too much baggage carried over from the old regime and he continued his crap. Spence messed up once from what I heard of joe. Williams continued to screw up and his dedication and work ethic were questionable.
Besides Spences run in, I haven’t heard of any legal issues off the field prior.
April 7th, 2014 at 8:33 am
lightning,
Even worse than Green Bay. In the great white north of Nova Scotia, Canada.
They are trailer trash up there.
April 7th, 2014 at 8:43 am
Also remember that this guy was kicked off his college team. He has a history and this teams needs no part of that moving forward. Good riddance Mike enjoy the cold weather in Buffalo.
By the same college coach who just picked up from the airport in Buffalo and welcomed him to the Bills, and said what happened at Syracuse was a misunderstanding.–Joe
April 7th, 2014 at 8:43 am
The bottom line is Williams was a knucklehead and Bucs believe they will be better off without him.
Shuffle the caveman posse and the man child baggage off to Buffalo.
April 7th, 2014 at 8:44 am
Maybe L & L are aware of more bad behaviour taken place in the past. Remember when Williams posted in FB $500 dollars for good looking girls? I believe Joe thaught this was for video production of his Rap group.
Maybe there was more involve with those $500.
I trust L & L.
April 7th, 2014 at 8:46 am
I think there has to be more to this than anyone outside the organization knows.
April 7th, 2014 at 8:50 am
Mike had a great rookie year when quite honestly the Bucs played against a bunch of terrible teams and the book was not out on him yet. Eventually though, teams figured out that he is slow, soft and will only play on the perimeter. Sure he can make the occasional back shoulder catch, but that is low percentage crap and will not sustain drives. You have to be honest with yourself, he has not lived up to potential and is way overrated.
April 7th, 2014 at 9:11 am
I can’t at all relate to the high standards some of you have for this situation. I well remember my younger days and the stupid stuff I did. But no matter. My bigger concern is the HUGE GAPPING HOLE we have added to an offense that was already filled with question marks: our very questionable O-line- many of you want to use our #7 pick on a LT and who the hell is our starting RG? We were already needing a 3rd WR, now we need two, one of which has to be a pretty good starter. Some would say a TE would be desirable. Most would also say drafting a QB for development would be smart, whatever round. We have an OC and QB coach who have never coached in the NFL at any level. To me, this has the potential to be a total disaster.
Did the crime really fit the punishment? And when I say punishment, I mean to the team and its fans. Not Williams. IMO, the Bucs ADDED an unnecessary gaping hole that needs to be filled in the draft to an already long list of offensive needs. Why? Because MW left a mattress out in the front yard??? It is easy to complain that this was the right thing to do, but when the Bucs can’t score squat this season, don’t be crying about it if you endorsed this trade.
April 7th, 2014 at 9:12 am
“By the same college coach who just picked up from the airport in Buffalo and welcomed him to the Bills, and said what happened at Syracuse was a misunderstanding.–Joe”
That same coach said before the draft that a grand total of three GMs even called to inquire to him about MW before the draft. Most GMs knew he was a headcase. Licht was lucky that Marrone is now in the NFL.
April 7th, 2014 at 9:14 am
Sam Hurd…
April 7th, 2014 at 9:22 am
New regime, they want players that fit their system and are serious about playing football.
Williams didn’t make it on either criteria.
April 7th, 2014 at 9:24 am
“speed-bagging a cabbie going down the road 55 mph”. This quote never gets old, I love it.
April 7th, 2014 at 9:34 am
JOE, YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO ” CAN’T UNDERSTAND ” MIKE WILLIAMS BEING JETTISONED NEED TO STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR HIS BOORISH BEHAVIOR. IF YOU PLAY FOOTBALL IN THE NFL AND MAKE MORE HEADLINES FOR YOUR OFF FIELD BEHAVIOR , THEN YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY AN UNNEEDED DISTRACTION. IF HE WANTS TO BE A RAP STAR LET HIM DO IT HOW ALL THE OTHERS DID IT AND NOT HAVE THE BUCCANEERS AND THE COMMUNITY FOOT THE BILL!
April 7th, 2014 at 9:39 am
Flmike: Sam Hurd is a completely separate situation. Literally the only similarity is that they are both wide receivers.
That’s insulting even to mike Williams, who himself isn’t exactly a role model.
April 7th, 2014 at 9:39 am
Bucs got worse by trading Williams. It is what it is. I like Lovie but I don’t exactly have faith in his ability to make personnel decisions on the offensive side of the football. Since arriving in Tampa his decisions on the O have seemed suspect. We will see if he’s right in September I guess but ditching Williams and adding McCown doesn’t exactly have me excited and expecting a offensive turnaround.
April 7th, 2014 at 9:43 am
One crappy attitude will ruin an entire team. Just like in the business world; if one person refuses to carry their weight it will eventually bring the rest down. There is no room for complacency or contempt on a football team. My guess is Williams had his chances and squandered them.
April 7th, 2014 at 9:44 am
It’s truly sad how quickly Buc fans turn on a player… No one was complaining about locking Mike up to a contract after the 2012 season and his contract is exactly what a top number 2 wideout is being paid in the NFL… I guess everyone on here complaining about MW19 is a saint outside of work and has NEVER done anything wrong in their ENTIRE life? Maybe you guys should get fired from your job for having a loud birthday/house party or because your brother stabs you in the leg??? The rest of the stuff is all RUMORS(None of the other stuff was confirmed)… You guys are all banging your fist to get MW19 out of here but wanted to bring a player who might or might not have gang ties?? Where is the logic in that? What because he had 1300 yards last year? Guess you guys want anyone as long as they produce enough but the second they don’t you don’t want anything to do with them…
Yes the draft is deep at WR… But I recall the same draft when we got Benn and MW19 it was also a supposed deep draft at WR(Dez, Demaryius, Tate, Sanders, Decker, MW19) Then there were the busts too(Benn, Damian Williams, Lafell, Shipley, Armanti Edwards, Taylor Price, Gilyard all picked before MW19)… Ya we could come out of this draft with one or two studs(Dez, Decker) or we could come out of this draft with two duds(Damian Williams, Armanti Edwards)
Didn’t like this move at all and don’t like how we haven’t signed anyone for the G position(Sorry but Cousins doesn’t count he is terrible)… As much as we want to say we are good to take BPA when we pick we really can’t.. We have MAJOR needs at WR G and QB(I don’t trust a 34 year old starter or Glennon) along with O-line depth in general…
April 7th, 2014 at 9:44 am
I wonder if Joe will confront Lovie in a presser about his mistake. Schiano wouldn’t let the pen and mike club question him. Lovie is different!
April 7th, 2014 at 9:46 am
Who’s to say Williams wasn’t looking to get out of Tampa anyway. I doubt anyone will get the real story.
April 7th, 2014 at 9:48 am
Did’nt like letting Williams go, and still don’t.
April 7th, 2014 at 9:52 am
Does stripper pole = ability to pull?
Doubtful. –Joe
April 7th, 2014 at 9:52 am
I am beginning to think the joes are in love with williams just as much as they are with JF.
April 7th, 2014 at 9:59 am
We need a receiver now. probably higher up in the draft than we wanted. Mike’s gone. Too bad I liked him but we have no choice cept to move on.
April 7th, 2014 at 10:03 am
The bottom line is Williams was a very capable WR. Trading him decreased the overall talent level of the offense. The new regime is making it clear that they’re doing things their way. It might take this years draft and another offseason of free agency and next years draft to build up the talent. Vjax isn’t getting younger and he’s making a hefty salary. That’s a combination of factors Lovie and Licht don’t like. Not only will Williams need to be replaced, but Vjax’s replacement needs to be found soon as well.
April 7th, 2014 at 10:09 am
List of #2 WR
AFC North – Steve Smith, Little/Burleson/Hawkins, DHB/Moore, Jones/Sanu
AFC South – Hopkins, Hilton, CSIII/Blackmon, Washington
AFC East – Woods(BEFORE MW19 Trade), Hartline, Amendola, Kerley/Hill
AFC West – Welker/Sanders, Avery, Streeter/Holmes, Brown/Floyd
NFC North – Tate, Jeffery, Cobb, Patterson
NFC South – White, Underwood(lol), Stills
NFC East – Williams, Randle, Maclin/Cooper, Garcon
NFC West – Floyd, Boldin, Baldwin, Pettis/Austin/Givens/Bailey/Quick(lol)
Ya other than maybe 10 of them I’m taking MW19 over the rest…
April 7th, 2014 at 10:33 am
@Mort
Lovie signed him and paid for it, I spend a lot of time in Chi-town, Sam Hurd probably hurt him more than a lot of other things you’d think would have when it came to the Bears…
April 7th, 2014 at 10:36 am
There was probably more of which we were not aware regarding MW. Luckily, this draft is deep in WR’s. However, it does put us in a bind at 7. We may be able to trade down and fill the ranks if teams are open to it. However, smokescreens are a funny thing. IMO, we will go with best available, and pick up a receiver in R2. But, part of wouldn’t be disappointed if we trade down…Browns maybe for 1(26) and 2(35) – for our 1(7)? Benjamin, would be and option and probably Beckham Jr as well. Pick up a OG with our 2(38). But what do I know, that’s why they get paid the big bucks.
April 7th, 2014 at 10:36 am
At the owners meeting coach Smith said “Mike Williams pattern of behavior is very disturbing.” What don’t you Mikettes #19 supporters understand? It is wrong to kick in a woman’s door? What if that was your sisters door? This woman now has to worry about Mike showing up at her door. 16 speeding tix in 4 years. No attempt to change reckless behavior. Damaging homes by fire and getting sued. Lied to cops. Lied he would pay $43k to owner for other damages. Now he will face other law suits. These are all facts. Thank goodness you Mikettes aren’t running our team!! Thank goodness trash is getting tossed out!!
April 7th, 2014 at 10:38 am
“what happened at Syracuse was a misunderstanding.–Joe”
_________________________________
The academic cheating was just a misunderstanding, huh? Funny what the coach will say now that he’s back on his roster.
April 7th, 2014 at 10:38 am
Buffalo is a wasteland, you go up there to be irrelevant.
April 7th, 2014 at 10:44 am
Joe you are always in the locker room and have a lot of sources was Williams a problem in meetings, games, practices, locker room and/or attitude so it could effect someone else?
April 7th, 2014 at 11:02 am
SuperGobaby Says
“Typical idiotic JB column. Preponderance of evidence that Williams is a bad actor. Obviously Joe has low standards for the behavior of his family, if indeed he has one.”
You are an idiot, and just by your words alone tells me you are guilty of the very thing you accuse Joe of.
And btw, be a man and use the same username all the time instead of making one up to be rude with.
April 7th, 2014 at 11:05 am
Bucs fans are a trip! A year ago we were singing this guy praises and now he’s “mediocre”?!
I’ve never seen soooooo many people quick to pass judgement on other people. What gives you the right? What because he’s gone you want to pile on? Stop being hypocrites.
He was a good receiver and if you think that we got better on the field as a team by releasing him, you need to lay off of the pipe! I’m pretty sure that’s what Joe is saying here.
April 7th, 2014 at 11:06 am
@OB —
We see a troubling pattern in sports reporting. The local yokels ought to have the best connections and deepest personal insight. But either they don ‘t, or they don’t dare tell the true story for fear of damaging access. Amounts to the same thing _ local fans do not get the real story.
Then when something breaks nationally, the national press gets the story. It may be that the reporters in this area feed the story on background to the names, or that the players (and their especially agents) like the exposure and so sing to the TV talking heads. But the true fans of the team don ‘t get the story early and the Bucs press get beaten to the punch on most every league story.
See MRSA, Freeman, Schiano hold on locker room. &c.
No aspersions on Joe here, I was not following your site until recently.
But it is a major disappointment to fans when we realize the “close contacts” with players just means propaganda outlet, not good insight.
Think Little Puppy, who always knows things he cannot say and whose inside scoops never come to pass.
April 7th, 2014 at 11:07 am
Robert Says
“Aren’t you overlooking a number of reports from One Buc that Williams was consistently late to meetings, and after suffering his season ending injury did not take his rehab seriously either?”
Robert, you are so full of crap. If all that was true, then why did it not “come out” before all this nonsense? You are twisting what was said anyway.
When on IR a player is not supposed to go to meetings. And contrary to the claims of the misinformed, Williams WAS injured at the time (even if he wasn’t on IR yet in one instance).
You guys want Watkins or Evans, and you don’t mind bashing other players to get one of them. Disgusting behavior.
April 7th, 2014 at 11:09 am
Mike Williams came here as a 4th rounder (?), worked hard to prove himself (very hard) and because he had one down year you idiots turn on him and try to find every fault possible.
You will do the very same thing to McCown, Glennon and whoever else doesn’t meet your double standards.
April 7th, 2014 at 11:16 am
Lou. Says:
“But it is a major disappointment to fans when we realize the “close contacts” with players just means propaganda outlet, not good insight.”
You’ve got that wrong. At least in part. Yes, the Bucs might “leak” information from time to time, but that doesn’t mean the reporter leaked to knows it isn’t always true.
Also, Steve may not always be right, but he comes by it honestly. The same cannot be said for any other reporter in town. (Joe is a blogger, not a reporter)
We have several local hacks that consistently make things up, attributing to “inside sources” and feeding the masses lies in the hopes of generating interest.
That’s not propaganda, it’s shoddy, dishonest reporting. And that is because reporters are no longer held to any standard, not like in hte old days.
April 7th, 2014 at 11:18 am
@Bonzai:
Re your comments to SuperGobaby, Thank you for writing that; I wanted to… Some of the absolutely stupid things that are said on here are sooooooo ridiculous. Joe really should require an IQ test before allowing ppl to post comments.
April 7th, 2014 at 11:23 am
Mort Says
“Nobody was hospitalized? Well, except Mike himself which was from a stab wound.
And while no a stripper pole in the den and a mattress in the yard don’t hurt anyone physically, they sure are indictable of the character of the person. Both are shameful and let’s be honest, not exactly classy.”
First, just to clarify, if kids are involved and they wet the bed, or if a smelly liquid is spilled on a mattress, you drag it outside after cleaning to dry and air out.
Normal people do that all the time.
Secondly, obviously you are not married or do not have a wife suitable to use a stripper pole in the bedroom. There is nothing wrong with it. Mike isn’t married, but in a world where being married does not matter (it does to me though) it is more common than you think.
April 7th, 2014 at 11:28 am
Incidentally, I don’t drink, smoke or use drugs (including pot). I didn’t have sex with my wife until we were married. I am a Christian man who has made plenty of mistakes, but I’ve learned from them.
So, if I were to say drinking alcoholic beverages only leads to trouble, and anyone that does it is not the kind of person that I would want working at my company, and fired them. Fired you for example.
Would I be wrong?
If you say yes, then you’ve got a huge double standard. If you say no, you’ve got huge issues.
April 7th, 2014 at 11:40 am
Does this trade make the Bucs better this year, no. But it will pay off team-wise down the road. Lovie and Licht came here without being handcuffed to the roster. They have watched the tape and decided that it was best to hit the rest button on Dominick’s misfits.
Its a new Day in Tampa Bay. Be a Legend Lovie.
April 7th, 2014 at 11:50 am
Joe is ignoring the fact that this immature and destructive behavior extended to OBP. There’s no reason to doubt the reports of that. The Spence issue is an isolated case, as far as we know. That’s the difference. Joe continues to ignore that simple distinction. Joe would rather rile up the rabble.
I don’t see what the problem is. I’m aware this leaves them thin at WR, but based on Williams reported inattention to his job (to go along with the questionable off-field behavior), I think we had to plan on drafting a WR high anyway.
THere’s no sense in keeping a guy around if he doesn’t have his head into playing football, and if he’s setting a bad example in the locker room. These things make a difference.
@Bonzai-
The difference is that the job Williams holds is a publicly visible one. Also, if one’s personal behavior extends into poor work ethic within the job and setting a bad example for other employees, you would be justified in firing them… But here’s the thing – he wasn’t fired really – he was traded. He still has a contract. The NFL guarantees nothing about the location of your workplace, except that it will be one of 32 cities. You argument doesn’t hold water.
And Joe, as usual, is wrong.
April 7th, 2014 at 12:12 pm
Joe citing Leo Howell as a defense . . . hello there sweet irony
April 7th, 2014 at 12:39 pm
This logic assumes that the trade was catalyzed by purely non-football considerations, as if the coaching staff and front office make personnel decisions in vacuum without considering any more than one variable. How does his skill set fit into the offensive system? How does his salary fit into future spending plans? Did he even want to be on the team? Since he grew up in WNY probably as a Bills fan, doesn’t it seem at least slightly possible that he may have even been involved in the trade discussions? To suggest that Lovie and Licht are so simple-minded that they would make a decision like this based only on this one limited data set without any regard for their football operations seems pretty insulting to me. I hope they’re offended.
April 7th, 2014 at 1:59 pm
@Orca- I know everyone will defend their comments to justify their stance and at times flaunt the proverbial “I told you so”. That’s to be expected. What I don’t understand here is you are quick to say I told you so but don’t see the correlation between Spence and Williams. They are distinct but also related. Sure, Spence was caught only once but that’s the point, caught. You cannot be naive enough to think that this is a one time action. Herein lies the “slippery slope”. Where do you draw a line?
Mike’s “crimes” were minor. Who’s to say he wouldn’t have had a “come to Jesus” moment with Lovie? Maybe he hasn’t earned it with Lovie, but he was productive enough over the years and should have been given the opportunity(he hadn’t any issues prior to this). Whether there’s more to it, we’ll never know.
If we continue to cast out anyone who commits a mistake, there will be very few left to man the ship.
While nobody is irreplacable, to say Mike was anything but a solid player is ridiculous.
I’ve got nothing invested in Mike Williams. He played some good years here in Tampa Bay. But I, like many don’t fully understand the fervor with which many wanted to see him go.
April 7th, 2014 at 3:19 pm
^^ These things are always handled on a case-by-case basis. If Spence has repeated legal issues, I imagine he’ll be gone too. Mike Williams’ list of infractions was lengthy, his behavior was immature, and he apparently did not appear committed to football in the eyes of L&L (or the previous regime for that matter). I don’t see any slippery slope. Every situation and player is unique, and L&L will tolerate mistakes and give second chances if the player is committed to football. There aren’t hard lines or clearly defined trigger events. It’s always going to be a judgement call. For L&L, their judgement at this point was that Mike Williams was no longer worth the headaches. They probably didn’t get a strong sense that Williams was committed to straightening up a little bit and focusing on football. I trust their judgement more than Joe or any other windbaggery found on these comment threads.
I like Mike Williams. I wished he would’ve done whatever was necessary to convince Lovie and Licht that he was going to be a responsible team member. But in the end, as fans, we have no control over the player or the decisions made by the front office. We go along on the knowledge that the front office is making decisions based on the best information they have on a player and on the standards they want to set in the locker room. Spending time b1tching and moaning about these decisions makes no difference and is a miserable waste of time. I’m willing to let L&L shape this roster according to their vision and expect it will lead to winning seasons. If it does not, they will be canned.
I also think fans may underestimate the importance of team chemistry. If you have a guy who’s not fully committed, it rubs off. Since this is their first year, L&L want to lay the groundwork for a winning attitude in the locker room from the start. I don’t fault them for that at all.
Also, what hasn’t been discussed is the likelihood that the Glazers have laid down a mandate that players who show poor citizenship should not be a part of the organization. I think this probably had a big role in the decision. That’s not completely unreasonable.
April 7th, 2014 at 3:43 pm
Yeah Orca, and I think that there was more to it than what is “known” here. Clearly L&L have a vision and we need to accept that. We have no choice anyway.
Hopefully this was for the better and we will no longer lament this move. I won’t lie though; I didn’t care for the Revis cut and am still shaking my head on this one.
Time to move on….beer please!
April 7th, 2014 at 6:37 pm
Self-anointed choirboy Buccaneer Bonzai gives Christians a bad name…parsing each post, name calling, the aura of self-righteousness. If you get in the arena, the lions will have plenty of fans.