NFL Teams Need The “25-Foot Putt”
February 13th, 2014
As Joe is watching national TV news this morning and seeing just about everyone along the eastern seaboard north of Valdosta digging out from yet another wintry mix of snow and ice — damn, Joe counts his blessings every day living in an area where a snow shovel is but a rumor — Joe brings the final installment of his interview with legendary former Dallas Cowboys personnel man Gil Brandt.
Today, Brandt talks about how important it is for NFL teams to have a successful quarterback.
JoeBucsFan: Some theorize that in the NFL today, a quarterback-driven league, if you have the worst quarterback in your division, then you are pretty much SOL. What do you think about that theory?
Gil Brandt: I think the theory is pretty sound. I think this is very, very much a quarterback-driven league. I think all we need to do is see the teams that are in the playofs, and they all pretty much have good quarterbacks. I think that is a common thing: Someone that can make plays. I think the competitive balance in this league is such that you need somebody that can make the 25-foot putt.
For the Mike Glennon Mob: Joe is not anti-Glennon. Joe is pro-getting the best out of the position. If the braintrust of the Bucs decides Glennon is the answer at quarterback, Joe hopes the guy throws 30 touchdown passes and leads the Bucs to January games. At home, even.
Yes, Joe is weary of typing about Glennon. But quarterback chatter is compelling and Bucs fans crave it. Alas, the combine is just around the corner.
February 13th, 2014 at 12:30 pm
“Alas, the combine is just around the corner.”
Phew. Finally.
February 13th, 2014 at 12:32 pm
” Joe is pro-getting the best out of the position.”
Yet, Freeman.
February 13th, 2014 at 12:45 pm
lol@ODB
February 13th, 2014 at 1:17 pm
Freeman made a lot of plays that brought his team back from deficits in the 4th quarter. Plays that Glennon never showed us he could make. This year of new were losing at the start of the 4th quarter we knew the game was over.
February 13th, 2014 at 1:17 pm
@ODB
and thinks that Vick is the answer! makes no sense at all.
February 13th, 2014 at 1:18 pm
*this year of we were losing^^^^^^
February 13th, 2014 at 1:19 pm
There really isn’t much more to be said about our QB subject.
I don’t think he has what it takes
I have no idea.
Let the new coaches decide.
I think he deserves a shot.
Let’s get him some competition.
Throw the “giraffe” out.
Great backup.
Fourth best QB in the division.
Schiano’s guy.
Good value as a third round pick
Has the tools.
Doesn’t have the tools.
Trade up to get Johnny or Teddy.
Take a QB in later rounds.
Bring in a FA to compete with him.
The only thing left is to discuss whether or not LVD can play the position.
I can’t wait until this is over….but I suspect that even when its over…it won’t be over.
February 13th, 2014 at 1:25 pm
@Vern4499 Says:
“…Freeman made a lot of plays that brought his team back from deficits in the 4th quarter. Plays that Glennon never showed us he could make. This year of new were losing at the start of the 4th quarter we knew the game was over…”
Good point Vern. The only thing I would add is that Free had less talent in the beginning.
February 13th, 2014 at 1:30 pm
Harry,
Very true. I’m not advocating that Free should not have been traded. He obviously has issues of some sort. And like Joe I believe Glennon is a nice hardworking kid. I also think he will make a very good back up. I just don’t believe he has the makings a very good to great starter. I’m tired of just having an ok starter. I want someone that goes out and scared the other team we they are watching film of the Bucs.
February 13th, 2014 at 1:31 pm
@harry
the o-line was better back then. And I guess the highest paid TE at the time does not count
February 13th, 2014 at 1:32 pm
I don’t understand the fan loyalty to Glennon or any of the players for that matter. We aren’t running a charity. We should always be looking for the best player in each position.
February 13th, 2014 at 1:36 pm
I agree Vern. I am tired of the mediocrity myself. Unfortunately, the only way to fix it is thru taking a QB high in the draft.
February 13th, 2014 at 1:39 pm
I went back and watched more film on Glennon and one thing I’m really amazed about was the fact I’m surprised he didn’t have more interceptions. Not only was Mike under duress as soon as the ball was hiked most of the time, when he did connect down field, it was usually into a very small window. He threw an inordinate amount of check down passes but if you watched the play it was either designed that way or there just was no-one open. Another thing about Mike is that he was very accurate in his short to intermediate throws but was given to many opportunities to throw deep before he was being pummeled. He was more accurate than Freeman who Joe happened to endorse. Give this guy an O-line and WRs and you’ll see a 30+ TD performance this year.
February 13th, 2014 at 1:41 pm
“I can’t wait until this is over….but I suspect that even when its over…it won’t be over.”
lol True.
Summed up in a nutshell yesterday from Bucfan#37
“Glennon sucks, Manziel sucks, available FA QB’s suck. Oh My! Yada Yada Yada. I still think Glennon is the 2014 starter.”
I concur, like it or not.
February 13th, 2014 at 1:48 pm
@The_Buc_Realist Says:
“…the o-line was better back then. And I guess the highest paid TE at the time does not count…”
I am not sure I would agree with you on the O-line, Realist. Our O-line this year was ranked about middle of the road by PPF. I think too much is made about the failure of the O-line. The guard play definitely sucked; and they were up and down this past year; sometimes we were awesome at running the ball, other times we could not run on a high school team.
You make a fair point on the TE. But our receivers were not as good back then .(not that they were great this year). Shall we call them even then? I think Verns point would still be valid, don’t you?
February 13th, 2014 at 1:48 pm
Defense Defense Defense that’s all Lovie cares about right now. They hired a defensive minded coach. Quarterback might be an afterthought right now.
Who knows? Certainly not me, Lovie and company have yet to do anything but sign Kafka and release 4 players. Certainly can’t gauge a damn thing from that.
All we can do is speculate and I speculate that Lovie is going to worry about the defense first and QB is an afterthought.
February 13th, 2014 at 1:50 pm
I just hope that Joe will post a Charlton Heston/Planet of the Apes video as soon as the Bucs don’t get Johnny Football!
February 13th, 2014 at 2:00 pm
@87
You’re right about the defense….we are just about 3 players away from dominance….easier route to shore that up first. A very dominant defense can take us a long way.
February 13th, 2014 at 2:03 pm
Attention all 8-Haters…the Feb. meeting of the official “8-Hate Gang” will take place this Sunday at Joe’s house at 12 noon. The agenda is as follows:
12:00 – 12:15: Read the minutes of Jan. meeting, sing the official “8-Hate Gang” song.
12:15 -12:30: Burn Mike Glennon in effigy on front lawn.
12:30 – 1:00: Talk about how stupid the “MGM” is for thinking that he had a pretty decent rookie season.
1:00 – 1:30: Cookies and milk/nap time
1:30 -3:30: Stare dreamily at a “Fathead” wall poster of Johnny Football on Joe’s wall…try to hide resulting boners.
3:30-3:45: Pass a resolution that demands our new HC and GM be willing to trade up to 8 future draft picks to get the aforementioned object of Joe’s man crush (Johnny Football).
3:45 – 4:00: Pose for commemorative group photo next to Johnny Football Fathead on wall.
4:00: Meeting ends.
Fun and good times for all…see you there!
February 13th, 2014 at 2:04 pm
The beauty of pro football at this time of year is change. Time to regroup create a better teams. How it’s done falls on the GMs and head coaches ( except in Dallas).
We have a NFL coach now, not college Gregg and his Rutger boys.
Let’s give Lovie a chance. He has a lot to change, and $$ involved. I’m suer he will do the best he can. Free agency and the draft is a balancing act. Any improvement is welcome over what I saw last year.
Joe give Glennon a break for now, and let’s see what happens. The QBs available in free agency don’t rate a top QB status, and the draft if best is a gamble.
February 13th, 2014 at 2:13 pm
nice jeagan. I can’t attend though. I have a freeman pep rally already scheduled.
February 13th, 2014 at 2:19 pm
ROBERT6, LOL!! What kind of turnout are you expecting?
February 13th, 2014 at 2:26 pm
hey joe , there is some flawed logic to constantly pointing out that we have the 4th best qb in our division and that is the crux of the problem. with the exception of Aaron Rodgers ,we would still be in that situation with any other nfc qb. we do need to upgrade ,but maybe for this year we can build up the rest of the team (aka seattle) and attempt qb next year. there should be more top end talent at qb. that being said , if johnny football is still there at #7 I would take him. he is the ultimate boom or bust prospect and his potential is thru the roof.IMHO
February 13th, 2014 at 2:46 pm
Done with this expert. On to the next.
If they do draft a QB or bring in a vet all we will see is No way Glennon beats him out.
February 13th, 2014 at 2:50 pm
No Joe, please keep hating on Glennon. By the time he takes his first snap this season we can all be ready to boo if it isn’t a touchdown. So tired of this….”I don’t hate Glennon, I just think he’s the worst QB in the league” and now from the posers um I mean posters on this board lamenting how much better talent Glennon had around him versus Freeman… Really??? Really?? I’m the guy who months ago said, I hope both Freeman and Schiano are back at the end of the season because if not we will be developing a new qb and hiring a new coach. Here we are.
I don’t care if we go to the playoffs next season but I would like to see the Bucs have a plan that extends longer than next season. I would not trade away the house to move up for a qb. History is not kind to teams that trade up for early draft picks. How many of us would choose to be the Redskins instead of the Rams (can you imagine their DLine if they add Clowney???) this year? If there is a stud QB on the board at 7, take him..no doubt. But if their isn’t pick the DE or the LT and continue building from there. The defense is a young DE away from being excellent for quite a while. For all this “Its a QB driven league” crap… Did anyone watch the playoffs or the Super Bowl???? Its a defensive line Driven league, always has, always will be. No matter how good the qb is, take away the time to make progressions by delivering pressure with a 4 man front and well..you will see what happens to a Manning, Brady, Kapernick, Wilson, Newton et al. Keeping your qb clean and making their qb dirty are the biggest factors in winning a game.
February 13th, 2014 at 2:57 pm
Joe and all:
I did a parallel between Glennon and Manning’s first year figuring only 13 games:
Attempts:
Manning – 431
Glennon – 416
Complete:
Manning – 244
Glennon – 247
Percent:
Manning – 56.7
Glennon – 59.4
Yards:
Manning – 2804
Glennon – 2608
Yards per pass:
Manning – 6.5
Glennon – 6.3
Yards per game:
Manning – 233
Glennon – 201
Touch Downs:
Manning – 19
Glennon – 19
Interceptions:
Manning – 28
Glennon – 9
Passer Rating:
Manning – 71.2
Glennon – 83.9
I have not compared Glennon with any others but it does not appear that all the criticism is warranted since he was a rookie and did almost the same as Peyton Manning in his first year. Why would we want to take a risk on another quarterback who would need another year to adjust to the NFL when we have a quarterback friendly Jeff Tedford that specializes in getting the most out of a quarterback? Personally, I like many of those in the draft and even Michael Vick but there is no guarantee that any of them will do any better than Mike Glennon has already done in his first year. Usually, with good coaching and a good team around him, a quarterback will improve greatly. Imagine Glennon with Manning’s offensive line and receivers. Now imagine Manning in Tampa his first year with our offensive line and receivers. Does anyone think he would have done any better than Mike Glennon? Just curious!
February 13th, 2014 at 3:27 pm
@DavidWilliams….you are exactly right. You can compare Glennon’s rookie year to Tom Brady, Phillip Rivers, Matt Ryan, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Tony Romo, Russell Wilson, Tannehill, Roethlisberger and several other “top tier” QB’s and you know what? Glennon is right there solidly in the middle of them in terms of his performance as a rookie! What does this prove to us? That even Manning and Brady and Rivers, and Brees and Romo and Roethlisberger and all the others were not necessarily great QB’s right off the bat…but they got better with time because they were given a chance! BUT SHHHH!!! Don’t let Joe or the Big Mouth (sorry Dog) hear you try to use this logic or they will accuse you of being stupid and label you a “mob”ster! In fact had any of these other QB’s been drafted by the Bucs, they probably would have been pushed out after their rookie season so we could trade half a dozen draft choices to get Mark Sanchez or Geno Smith!
February 13th, 2014 at 4:08 pm
Our o line was very inconsistent. If they played like the Seattle game more, MG has more td’s more completions and the rb’s have more yards and TD’s. Lovie and licht will upgrade the line.
February 13th, 2014 at 4:27 pm
Tnew-This is the smartest thing anyone has said on this subject in some time:
“For all this “Its a QB driven league” crap… Did anyone watch the playoffs or the Super Bowl???? Its a defensive line Driven league, always has, always will be. No matter how good the qb is, take away the time to make progressions by delivering pressure with a 4 man front and well..you will see what happens to a Manning, Brady, Kapernick, Wilson, Newton et al.”
I’ve been saying this for years! Everybody’s enamored with QBs. Keep him on the sideline or put him on the ground. You can’t throw when you’re looking out of your ear-hole or not on the field.
Seattle did it with the 26th ranked passing offense, top 10 running game and #1 defense.
February 13th, 2014 at 5:05 pm
All of these articles mention that you cannot win (Super Bowl, multple playoff games, division) with the 4th best QB in the division whichis probably true. But what is the solution to obtain the 3rd best or even the best QB in the division?
At this point, we would have to wat until Brees retires to have a shot at the 3rd best. I am assuming this because of the Bucs’ history at obtaining QBs.
If we ever get a top-notch QB, it will be an unexpected surprise. A player that we do not expect can be the best.
February 13th, 2014 at 5:09 pm
tnew:
Learn the English language, imbecile, before you start lecturing Joe on semantics.
Merriam-Webster definition of “hate.”
February 13th, 2014 at 6:28 pm
I love how idiots create new names just to insult Joe. They are too stupid to realize the website identifies by IP address so Joe always knows who they really are.
David Williams,
I can go find great QBs that Josh Freeman had better stats than over his first 13-16 games. It means nothing. Rookies, even ones that are destined to become great backups, have an advantage that there is little tape on them and there skills improve from game to game.
Improvement often slows after the first year, an QBs that looked good as rookies often turn out to be good backups…if that.
mitsurugi,
You don’t have to have the best QB in the division if you have the best defense. Butyou need one that can compeye to be second best in the division. That’s why the Panthers reached the playoffs.
The way I see it is defense can win championships IF you have a top 10 QB. Offense can win championships if you have a top 10 defense.
If the Broncos had any defense at all, the superbowl may have turned out different. The Seahawks had the defense, and their QB was in top 10.
February 13th, 2014 at 6:31 pm
But you guys are confusing two different issues. Winning the Superbowl is not the first step. Getting into the playoffs is.
And to do that, we must aleast have the second best QB and a strong defense.
Once we’re in the superbowl becomes a milestone.
February 13th, 2014 at 7:00 pm
@ Jeagan 1999
On the meeting agenda you forgot to have 5 minutes of yucks and giggles about how funny he looks. Don’t mention that Joe can’t get close to a girl close to as hot as MG’s GF.
Am I misremembering? I seem to recall MG winning a couple of awards, like offensive rookie of the month an rookie QB of the year. I guess the voters lack Joe’s acumen.
February 13th, 2014 at 7:10 pm
BuccaneerBonzai
I hope you were not referring to me when you say idiot, I rarely post on this blog. I do not disagree with what Joe mentions in his blogs about Glennon. A good question is in a division full of good quarterbacks(franchise quaterbacks), how close does the 4th quarterback have to be in talent to compete? How do the Bucs get in a position to get a guy that could potentially be the best or second best? Especially since we all hope the Bucs never have to draft this low again.
February 13th, 2014 at 8:06 pm
Mitsurugi…no one will answer that question. They just want.
It’s the liberal way. I want a new QB no matter what, I have no idea how that’s going to happen, I just want.
February 13th, 2014 at 8:07 pm
“And to do that, we must aleast have the second best QB and a strong defense.”
Bonzai..is this fact or your opinion?
February 13th, 2014 at 8:45 pm
David Williams: A little perspective please…. 1998 v 2013
Let’s really show the discredit you’ve done with statistics here.
First, not all your stats listed were for Manning’s (I’m assuming here) first 13 games, only some of them. Yards per game, Yards per attempt, comp %, QB rating, and *gasp* Interceptions were season totals. TDs, yards, and such were 13 games (again assuming, they were lower than full season totals and I didn’t choose to find which 13 you picked). How can you show TDs for 13 games, but INTs for a season and not expect someone to question it? Actually, 5 of Manning’s interceptions came in the last 4 weeks, so it should be 23, not 28.
Next… yards per attempt is a great statistic. I’ve been on Glennon’s case for the low YPA all year. But wow, those are close. 6.5 to 6.3… not bad. Until you look at where those rank in the NFL in 1998 v 2013. 6.5 YPA in 1998 was about middle of the pack. Good for 18th in the NFL. 6.5 YPA in 2013 (Alex Smith) was good for 29th best in the NFL. Glennon and 6.3 was good for 37th. See how perspective can skew statistics?
Rule changes and rule enforcement in the 2000’s has made the NFL a passing league. What Manning did in 1998 with the rules in place then was actually head and shoulders above anything Glennon did in 2013 with the rules and enforcement we have now. The same rules for contact that get Goldson suspended from our team open the passing game for any QB, even a rookie like Glennon. Other teams can’t hit defenseless WRs anymore, illegal contact past 5 yards is enforced more giving WRs more separation than they used to get. Brady rule, tuck rule, contact rules… all change the landscape between 1998 and 2013. We could look at Brady or Brees, but both players first season was before 2004 when most rule changes and enforcements began. Brees had a lower YPA at 6.2, but that was still 26th in the league, not 37th. The high that year was 7.9, which would be 7th best in 2013 (Brees).
Here’s a comparison… Roethlisberger’s rookie season of 2004 he started 13 games (so all stats are for 16 starts plus an appearance in another game): 196 of 295 (66.4%) for 2621 yds. 17 TD, 11 INT, 8.9 YPA (2nd). 98.1 rating and a 13-0 record as a starter. That’s a rookie QB in the passing era of the NFL and doesn’t include scrambles. Shall I go on to Cam Newton’s rookie record setting season in the pass happy NFL era? Ryan or Flacco’s rookie years (both finished with 11-5 records as starters, had over 60% comp, and Ryan had a 7.9 YPA). Maybe Andrew Luck? What I’m getting at is when you look at the league post 2004, the numbers have changed across the board, so it’s not apples to apples comparison. That takes Manning, Brady, Brees out. You can look at Rodgers, but he wasn’t a rookie his first year as a starter. What Glennon did was not special, actually some was downright pathetic (37th YPA), some was pretty good (19/9 TD/Int ratio).
All I can say is look at everything honestly, not with Red and Pewter glasses. Sure, if Glennon is our QB next year, I’ll be cheering just as loud if not louder than the next guy. But I’m still going to open my eyes to the truth. If you need to, read opinions on other sites (sorry Joe, but maybe if they do they’ll see you’re not the only guy questioning an upgrade at the position) and I think you’ll find that there has been some pretty in depth analysis detailing Glennon’s strengths and weaknesses as the season went on and the conclusion from most truly watching the Bucs and Glennon were not very positive (some even have all-22 screenshots to bring to light the flaws).
February 13th, 2014 at 10:14 pm
“I want a new QB no matter what, I have no idea how that’s going to happen, I just want.”
Exactly. There are so many fortune tellers on this site. All you have to do is take a QB in the top 10, and poof, “franchise” QB. Didn’t you know this?
February 13th, 2014 at 10:20 pm
People you are missing the biggest flaw that Glennon had last year. It was the second half. When Glennon had to bring the Bucs from behind he was terrible. Look up the stats in the second half compared to the first, it was startling.He plain stunk up the joint, with no come back ability at all. At least Freeman had the ability to bring the team from behind (Panthers game 2012) and he proved to be a average QB at best.So all you stats guys, look up Glennons stats in the second half, and stop saying he had a good year!!!!!
February 13th, 2014 at 10:27 pm
My post got deleted? Why? No bad words. Just a little teasing. what happened?
February 13th, 2014 at 10:38 pm
“So all you stats guys, look up Glennons stats in the second half, and stop saying he had a good year!!!!!”
Have you actually looked them up? If so post them up.
February 13th, 2014 at 11:02 pm
@Mitsurugi Says:
“…A good question is in a division full of good quarterbacks(franchise quaterbacks), how close does the 4th quarterback have to be in talent to compete? How do the Bucs get in a position to get a guy that could potentially be the best or second best? Especially since we all hope the Bucs never have to draft this low again…”
Those are good questions and the subject of most of the debates in JBF land. To attempt a ‘fair’ response, one that is not pro one way or another but simply common sense. A team does not have to have the BEST QB in its division, but they have to be in the mix. The team can make up the difference in QBs by having better defense, or WRs, etc. But look at all of the playoff QBs this past season. All but two were top 10 in rating; the other two were Luck and Brady.
Getting a great QB thru free agency will never happen – as desperate as teams are to have a franchise QB, what team is going to let one go? Ok, how about the Seattle approach of drafting one late? Like winning the lottery. Almost never, ever happens. I read a analysis that said drafting a QB beyond the top 7 picks (probably top 5 this year) in the draft gave less than a 15-20% chance of success
So really, the only way is using a top pick, and/or to trade up into the top picks to get one. Most of the debates here center around either giving Glennon another year to see how he turns out or trading up, which would require sending mulitple picks to the other team to move up; a pricey consequence. But the problem the problem with giving Glennon an extra year is, as you pointed out, the Bucs hope not to be drafting this high again for years, so moving up in the draft from say the middle of the round would cost a kings ransom in draft picks. Hope this helps.
February 14th, 2014 at 12:03 am
Gotbucs Here is Glennons stats first half—– td 13- 2 qb rating 102.7 sacks 15. Second half stats—- td 6- 7 qb rating 63.7 sacks 25. See a pattern here, i thought so.
February 14th, 2014 at 11:23 am
Sorry, @chipbuc…but those stats only paint half a picture. What was the play calling 1st half vs. 2nd half? avg. starting field position? what changes did the opposing defense make at half time? what was our run vs. pass ratio 1st half to 2nd half? etc… Steve Big-Mouth Doo-mig says you can’t compare Glennon’s rookie numbers to those of QB’s like Brady, Manning, Brees, Rivers, Romo, etc… Well I’m saying you can’t just say Glennon sucks in the second half because his numbers fell off from the first half. MY own humble opinion on why his stats were not as good in the 2nd half of games is that opposing defenses made a lot of corrections based on what they saw in the first half…and Schiano/Sullivan did NOT adjust accordingly. I’ll wager that if you looked at other rookie QB’s and measured first half vs. second half stats, you would probably find similar patterns. The bottom line is, many in the “8-Hate Gang” want to pick and choose which stats are relevant and which ones aren’t…I say look at them ALL and decide….some will continue to think Glennon showed a lot of promise and deserves a shot in year #2…others will say we have to mortgage the farm (despite plenty of other holes on this team) and give away extra draft picks for a rookie QB…to each his own!
February 14th, 2014 at 10:39 pm
Im sorry Glennons numbers didnt just fall off from the first half, they fell off a cliff. The reason Glennon had trouble in the second half is because he was asked to make plays when the other team knew he was going to throw. Without a threat of a runing game he is unable to make plays on his own. Like i said before as bad as everybody was down on Freeman ,he was capable of big time come backs even in his rookie year, two in nine games. Something Glennon has not shown in 13 games.
February 15th, 2014 at 3:19 pm
Buc1987 Says:
It’s the liberal way. I want a new QB no matter what, I have no idea how that’s going to happen, I just want.
Pfft.
March 6th, 2014 at 5:00 pm
[…] Joe has been pretty straight-forward: It is a helluva lot of swimming upstream to make the playoffs when you have the No. 4 quarterback in a four-team division. Even legendary personnel man Gil Brandt agrees with Joe. […]