Need No. 5
February 5th, 2014
Why does Joe place such a high priority on quarterbacks? Why does Joe always say quarterbacks lead? Because there is no other position that demands a player touch the ball virtually each and every snap.
Quarterback has evolved to the point where the game is approaching flag football status. If you don’t have a decent quarterback, you are sunk. It’s that simple. Oh, people can holler that defenses win games, but if you can’t score, you won’t go far. Denying that having a decent QB is vital for postseason success is the equivalent to the employed crazy person who walks down the sidewalk and claims to no one in particular that he doesn’t have to pay taxes. Sooner or later, the IRS will take a big ol’ bite out of his rear end.
As Warren Sapp is famous for saying, a defense will give you a chance but you still have to score. He knows from brutal experience.
Joe is pretty sure the above reasons somewhat factored into the decision by ESPN’s Pat Yasinskas; he picked the Bucs’ quarterback position to be (at least) their No. 5 need.
Let’s start with No. 5. I’m going with quarterback here, although the need could be much higher or lower depending on what the new regime thinks of Mike Glennon. The early comments from the coaches about Glennon have been positive and I think that’s more than just lip service. There still is more evaluation to be done by the new staff, but I’m hearing there’s legitimate optimism that Glennon can be the starting quarterback.
If that’s the approach the Bucs take, it would free them up to address some other positions of greater need early in the draft and in free agency. If the Bucs somehow decide Glennon is not the answer or they’re uncertain about him, they’re going to have to use a high draft pick on a quarterback or sign one in free agency.
Of course the new regime is going to say things nice about Glennon. What happens if Bucs general manager Jason Licht strikes out in obtaining either a free agent quarterback or misses out on drafting a quarterback? Glennon is then the de facto starter before training camp. There’s no need to bury the guy.
Besides, there still may be a chance (though Joe is skeptical) that Jeff Tedford can wave a magic wand and turn Glennon into a top shelf quarterback. Time will tell.
If the rumors are accurate that the Bucs are in serious talks to land Michael Vick, then that tells Joe at best the Bucs are not totally sold on Glennon and that Vick, at least, is a safety net.
February 5th, 2014 at 12:15 pm
It is mind boggling how despite endorsements from coaching, (so called) experts, and the rookie stats Glennon amassed last season a lot of folks can’t accept that this kid just might actually be really good. The sky could part and God’s voice could proclaim “Glennon is the man!” and yet there would still be some people saying “no thanks, he can’t possibly be a franchise QB. He was a 3rd round pick endorsed by Schiano who we hate, plus the kid looks kind of goofy and can’t run a 4.40”. Newsflash, if given a shot and a an O line that can protect him for at least 3 seconds this guy will probably end up being the 2nd or 3rd best QB in the division in a couple years (yes I am saying I think he will end up being better than either Cam Newton or Matt Ryan…and no I haven’t been drinking heavily…yet)
February 5th, 2014 at 12:15 pm
With the FAs that will be available: Vick, McCown, Henne, Freeman (I jest…), etc. I just do not see how we can “upgrade” via FA. Good backups, mentors, yes. But not an upgrade. And that clearly includes Vick and he leads this group. When was the last time Vick played all 16 games?
For some who are suggesting we use a 2nd rd pick on a QB. We do not have many picks in 2014 and picking a QB beyond the top 10 picks in the 1st rd is statistically a total waste of a draft pick – not even a 30% chance of rate of success – its a total shot in the dark. Iif getting a better backup is the goal, I’d rather sign Vick.
Lastly, Trading up to #2. At some point we are going to have to bite the bullet. Right now at #7 we are only 5 spots away. Next year, when Lovie’s D kicks in, we will likely be picking in the teens at the very least. Cost to move up will be ridiculously prohibitive.
And please don’t use Russell Wilson as an example of a game manager; that is so lame. Wilson is a top starting 10 QB; go check it out for yourself.
Are you happy with a history of Freeman, Garcia, Gradkowski, Simms, Griese, Brad Johnson, Shaun King, Dilfer, etc? 15 years of Bucs QBs. When does this madness stop? You say the price is too steep to trade up; I say the price of never having a franchise QB is too high, too miserable, too frustrating.
February 5th, 2014 at 12:17 pm
McCown is far less polarizing than Vick. Plus, if we sign McCown, there is no outside pressure to start him simply because he’s Michael Vick… there’s also no negative feedback from signing him either.
Sign McCown to great backup, low-end starter money, have him compete with Glennon. He’s far better preserved than Vick, a year younger, plays within an offense, and is an experienced and effective back-up if need be.
February 5th, 2014 at 12:18 pm
Matt Cassel available. Take him over Vick
February 5th, 2014 at 12:19 pm
I agree Joe, I would really like to see a QB fall to us in the draft, however I don’t think it happens in the first round. The big names will be gone by the time we pick so I think a 2nd or 4th round QB is more realistic. Maybe a 3rd if we trade down and pick up a 3rd round selection. I will say too that I am very interested to see what Glennon can bring to camp. Even you have to admit Joe he does sound pretty enthusiastic about his new coaches and hopefully they can help him pick his game up and add a little weight in the training room. He did show flashes last year but that coaching staff simply could (or would?) not coach him up. At this point, it’s Glennon’s spot to lose.
February 5th, 2014 at 12:19 pm
I don’t think the Broncos receivers would agree with the game “approaching flag football status”. They were all banged up after that defensive beat down!!
There will be an OTA in April, so they will know a month before the draft if MG is the man or not. If he is they go defense in the first. If not they will draft a QB if one falls to them. I still think they pick up at veteran QB to replace Orlovsky.
February 5th, 2014 at 12:20 pm
We can all point to stats to try to skew opinion on a player. In my wishful thinking I pointed to Freeman’s 4000 yard season last season as my hope that he would do better this season. Obviously, that wasn’t the case… but here are some great stats for you.
Glennon was sacked almost once for every 10 passes he threw. Most of those were completely on him for NOT throwing the ball away, finding an open receiver, or taking a shot downfield. Bottom line, he held onto the ball way too darn long. His checkdowns and reliance on short routes might be fine and dandy when a team is nursing a lead, but when the team is down by double digits and Glennon continually checked down, refused to push the ball down the field, and wasn’t even successful at moving the sticks with that, one has to wonder. His yards per attempt were atrocious at 6.3 and he proved time and time again, that he could NOT push the ball downfield to keep defenses honest due to his weak arm.
People like to compare Glennon’s rookie rating with Peyton Manning’s. 83.9 to Peyton’s 71.2…only problem? There really is NO comparison. Peyton Manning was responsible for keeping his crappy team in games. Their defense was terrible but due, mainly to Manning, the Colts offense that season was the 12th best in the league (the Bucs, dead last). Also, Manning, took only 22 sacks compared to his 575 passes (Glennon took 40 and threw 415 passes). Sacks are absolute drive killers… and when a player doesn’t have the necessary arm strength or accuracy to push the ball down the field, there is no way to overcome them. I know some of the 40 sacks Glennon took occurred on the same drive, but let’s just say, there were at least 30 drives killed by Glennon sacks. And when a team is facing 2nd and 16 and the QB only averages 6.3 yards per attempt, that makes it nearly impossible to get a first down in two plays. He took 12 sacks on 3rd down and 6+ alone despite only getting off 87 passes…what a horrible ratio.
Also, QB ratings have increased greatly since 1998. Glennon’s rating was 21st in the league this past year, in 1998 Manning’s 71.2 was 23rd. On top of that, the total ratings from all QBs in 2013 was 84.1… meaning Glennon was just below average (but ratings also don’t figure in drive killing sacks or 5 yard completions on 3rd and 8) while in 1998 the ratings for all QBs was 76.2…meaning Manning was just below average. Manning though, had the league’s 29th ranked scoring and total defense in the league (out of 31 teams)… the Bucs D by comparison, was much much better. Manning also had 4 300 yard games in his 16 starts while Glennon never threw for more than 275 (Manning threw for 275 6X). Also, Manning started that season with a horrible TD to INT ratio of 6-14 through the first weeks, never achieving a rating of over 67 the entire time, he finished the last 10 games with 20 TDs and 14 ints. Glennon on the other hand got progressively worse as the season went on.
Now on to crunch time… Mike Glennon in the 2nd half of games… this is when a future stud plays his best… Glennon and the Buccaneer offense were dreadful. Glennon’s 2nd half rating was something like 63 when the team needed him most…and despite the softer defenses and Glennon STILL throwing checkdowns play after play, he still stunk… at least Brian Griese could pad his stats against the prevent. His rating in the 2nd half was 63.7… is this the kind of star that will lead us into the future?
In order for Glennon to be effective, he needs everything to go right, everything to be working, otherwise, when he’s asked to make a play, it doesn’t happen. More statistical ineptitude is visible: mike-glennons-statistical-splits-are-really-weird
Mike Glennon is absolutely NOT the answer unless we’re looking for a much taller, skinnier, less athletic, and weak-armed version of the Human Sack Machine, David Carr. Competition is more than warranted. Any coach that likes mobile QBs, Tedford’s track record suggests he does so strongly, will hate Glennon. I expect a QB to be added as a free agent, McCown may come here fairly cheap if given the opportunity to start, and and I expect another QB to be added in the draft sometime during rounds 1-3.
February 5th, 2014 at 12:21 pm
So why are the Bucs talking to Vick? Think he is going to sign just to be a benchwarmer?
If the Bucs are as convinced Glennon is the guy as you suspect, then there’s no need to throw cash at Vick, right?
February 5th, 2014 at 12:26 pm
Another hit piece on Glennon…color me surprised.
It really is getting old…and it is starting limit the number of times I visit this site…between Beckles, Food King, and the Glennon hit pieces…it just ain’t worth it as much…
February 5th, 2014 at 12:27 pm
“Hit piece?” Please!
February 5th, 2014 at 12:31 pm
Joe says:
If the Bucs are as convinced Glennon is the guy as you suspect, then there’s no need to throw cash at Vick, right?
Come on Joe, Its smoke screen season. If you are hearing something about free-agency and draft, its a red-herring. Or Vick’s agent is trying to get buyers up to the table.
February 5th, 2014 at 12:32 pm
Brandon, sack rate is a pretty worthless stat. Among active QBs, Josh Freeman ranked 10th, which is 19 spots “better” than Cam, 21 spots better than Rodgers. Nick Foles, a similar QB to Glennon, achieved great success as an immobile QB with a high sack rate. As Nick Foles stated, “a sack is better than a forced interception”.
February 5th, 2014 at 12:33 pm
Perhaps Lovie is listening to Father Dungy’s requests to give his reclamation project Mike Vick another chance…who knows? I will admit Vick’s off field issues make it impossible for me to ever accept the guy as a Buc, but even so I just don’t see him being anything more than a guy who drives the Bucs down inside the other team’s territory only to either throw a pick or fumble the ball away. But hey it’s America, we can all agree to disagree about stuff.
February 5th, 2014 at 12:35 pm
I guess the one positive if they do sign Vick is that he will almost certainly get injured trying to run out of the pocket, so Glennon will get back on the field and we’ll see another Nick Foles situation. So there is a silver lining I guess.
February 5th, 2014 at 12:39 pm
them going after Vick tells Robert6 the are going after the best FA QB available.
It has NOTHING…ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with them not being sold on Glennon as some would have us believe.
It says their smart.
February 5th, 2014 at 12:39 pm
@Joe why are they throwing money at Vick? They are definitely going to bring in another QB. Either via draft or free agency. Every GM in the world would do that
February 5th, 2014 at 12:41 pm
No, No NO.! A thousand times no on Mike Vick! Any of the other available FA QBs but NOT Vick! Multiple reasons but Noooooooo!
February 5th, 2014 at 12:43 pm
Vick would not beat out Glennon. He would be brought in as a backup. Now Cassel would be more competitive
February 5th, 2014 at 12:45 pm
Vick might say he only wants to be a starter…what would you expect. but you can be sure deep down he knows, and his agent is telling him…
“look man, your 33, you ain’t getting a SB ring or a team to use you as their true #1 guy because you always get hurt. the best you can do is get one last payday and a shot at becoming the starter”
sound like Tampa to me as long as Vick lives in the real world. If he’s not, then so be it. but that’s what the Bucs want to find out.
that’s why they are talking to him, and Vick is talking to them if he is sincere or to just up his market value.
but great job on another Glennon slam article.
February 5th, 2014 at 12:48 pm
Have you noticed when Vick is fighting for the starting job, he is close to the best quarterback in the league? Then when he gets it, he goes down hill rapidly. If we get him (dear lord please don’t get him), all we have to do is tell him each and every week he has to fight to be the starter. So if he wants to start week 1, he has to gave a great preseason. If he wants to start week 2, he has to have a great week one. And so on and so forth. Ends with Super Bowl MVP. Just a facetious theory, so settle down.
February 5th, 2014 at 12:48 pm
If they’re not convinced on Glennon, draft a QB – it’s that simple.
February 5th, 2014 at 12:49 pm
I guess our current D coordinator could probably weigh in on which of the three Vikings QB’s would be worth kicking tires on (if any). I personally still think Matt Schaub will be the best FA qb option this upcoming season (assuming last season was just a nightmare of freak circumstances for him much like it was for the Bucs). At least he has shown he can be a solid NFL starter and comes without any off-field/character issue baggage.
February 5th, 2014 at 12:52 pm
Nobody likes QB Shaun Hill? Ok
February 5th, 2014 at 12:58 pm
What about the soon to be released Jason Campbell the guy almost threw for 4000 yards intheraiders
February 5th, 2014 at 12:59 pm
I agree competition is needed and still the best scenario for a “Lovie Smith Team” is going to be someone like McCown and another young QB like R. Mallet from NE, possibly Sanchez. Someone with an understanding of how the NFL works but was likely thrown into the fire a bit too soon. Keep in mind, Alex Smith looked awful for years before a certain coach with a background for qB play, turned him into a gem. Schaub is a guy that could find his way here, possibly Cassell but Vick is the complete opposite style that Lovie’s gameplan will seek. He’s too prone for sacks, strips and INTs, doesn’t read coverages that well and injury prone late in the year when your team needs to be peaking. He’s also left handed and in general a completely different QB than that of a traditional pocket passer. Also, his blindside would then rely on having solid play from the right side when we have all our money invested in the left side.
February 5th, 2014 at 12:59 pm
I also believe Schaub would be a good option as starter or backup.
February 5th, 2014 at 1:01 pm
“The early comments from the coaches about Glennon have been positive and I think that’s more than just lip service.”
I think it’s more than just lip service too.
February 5th, 2014 at 1:02 pm
Nice backup.
February 5th, 2014 at 1:04 pm
Well, teams generally don’t sign players who they think will make them worse. Whether the signings are smart or not, time will tell.
February 5th, 2014 at 1:14 pm
“Because there is no other position that demands a player touch the ball virtually each and every snap.”
I always laugh when I hear this statement. Hello! the CENTER touches the ball every single play! lol I get you point Joe, just being a smart a$s.
February 5th, 2014 at 1:16 pm
WHY would anyone want Mr. Glenon as a starter? he is not accurate on throwing the long ball , can’t pass to his left while on the run and is not mobile. .. Why want the worst qb ,even in or own division !
February 5th, 2014 at 1:22 pm
Quarterback isn’t the Bucs #5 need it’s their #1 need. If we don’t get a quarterback it will be another very long season and not in a good way.
February 5th, 2014 at 1:27 pm
I would take Schaub all day long and twice on Sunday
February 5th, 2014 at 1:32 pm
I agree with what Sapp said of Glennon “Its to big for him.” I hate to say it, but the guy chokes. If you can find someone better to replace him, then do it. If not then coach him up and we will really see what Glennon is made of once and for all next season.
February 5th, 2014 at 1:37 pm
Lets hold our horses one second on the Bucs’ opinion of Glennon with their “interest” in Vick! The source of this rumor, Adam Shefter, had the following tweet:
“Two teams likely to have some level of interest in Eagles free-agent-to-be QB Michael Vick: Buccaneers and Jets.”
Beyond that, there is nothing out there that supports Vick’s arrival in Tampa! Correct me if I’m wrong, but “likely to have interest ” seems more like Shefter’s opinion than a factual piece of information to share with readers. I know this piece of information supports your theory that the Bucs do not trust Glennon, Joe, but I just see a big pile of BS that got extremely overhyped.
February 5th, 2014 at 1:37 pm
@ Joe
Let me ask you something, if we do decide to bring in Vick, do you think Glennon would pose any kind of threat Vick? By that I mean do you think Glennon would beat Vick for the starting job?
February 5th, 2014 at 1:38 pm
@Brandon Says:
“…Glennon on the other hand got progressively worse as the season went on… Mike Glennon is absolutely NOT the answer…”
thank you, Well done.
February 5th, 2014 at 1:40 pm
“So why are the Bucs talking to Vick? Think he is going to sign just to be a benchwarmer?
If the Bucs are as convinced Glennon is the guy as you suspect, then there’s no need to throw cash at Vick, right?”
1) There is no proof that the Bucs are really even talking to Vick
2) Glennon is the only QB on the roster
3) Just because they are talking to him, if they are talking to him, it doesn’t mean they are willing to throw a ton of cash at him.
4) When Vick was beat out by Foles last season he was very professeional and accepted being the backup. If Glennon beat him out here they know it most likely wouldn’t cause a problem in the locker room.
If the Bucs are even actually talking to Vick, again im not cnvinced they are, it doesn’t neccesarily mean they aren’t sold on Glennon. However it would provide a Veteran player as an insurance policy.
February 5th, 2014 at 1:43 pm
Schaub is probably the only FA this year that could come into Tampa and perhaps win the starting gig as well as be a productive starter (though I still think Glennon will be better this year and win the starter gig unless the Bucs draft a QB this year). I cannot fathom Vick as a serious FA consideration for Tampa unless it’s some horrible PR move schemed by the Glazers during a secret order ritual or Lovie’s blind devotion to Dungy or maybe it’ll fall on Licht (if so he’ll be making Dominick look good…even he knew enough to say no to Vick!)
February 5th, 2014 at 1:47 pm
^^^
Bucs draft a 1st round QB…should have added that first time.
February 5th, 2014 at 1:53 pm
I think this rumor may turn out to be true… Listen how many times did we hear from Lovie, Licht and the “experts” for that matter say this team has talent and can be turned around quickly? Ala the Cheifs..? Don’t forget way back when, when “Father” Dungy signed off on Vick when he came back.. With the Glazers’ bringing back people and voices from the pas,t I wouldn’t be suprised if the Glazers’ approve the signing of Vick. I just worry that IF Vick come in and wins the job, that Glennon is so vastly different than Vick and the offense would be hindered. Vick will get hurt at some point during the season and changing the offensivegameplan almost compleetly seems like a bad idea… But what the hell do I know LOL
February 5th, 2014 at 1:55 pm
@Joe: “Need No.5”. Reading the title I thought you wanted Freeman back.
February 5th, 2014 at 1:58 pm
Malloy had a vision.
In it he climbed a precipitous mountain and came upon a burning bush.
Suddenly from the shadows appeared a hooded man carrying a staff .
He spake thusly:”Do not be afraid, Malloy. I am the vision, the light
and the glory. Though the scribes disparage me I will lead you and your
people to monumentous victories. They fear what they do not understand.
Do you fear me, Malloy?”
To this I cried “Who are you, mysterious stranger?”
At this he pulled back his hood and I saw the face of Mike ****in’ Glennon.
Amen.
February 5th, 2014 at 2:01 pm
Joe has not touched any form of alcohol since Sunday night.
February 5th, 2014 at 2:02 pm
He could. That’s always possible.
February 5th, 2014 at 2:02 pm
@ Harry
Excellent post.
February 5th, 2014 at 2:02 pm
The free agent QB pool is very unimpressive, it’s had to trade for a QB when you don’t have a 3rd or 6th round pick, and I don’t see a top QB falling to #7. Glennon might win the job by default.
February 5th, 2014 at 2:03 pm
I am more than happy that the Bucs have Glennon on their roster. I have liked his overall contribution to the team from day one. To think that we have seen the top of his potential is not legit thinking in my view. I hope he remains with the Bucs even if he is not the starter.
February 5th, 2014 at 2:03 pm
Long story short, Joe’s good friend, “The Big Dog,” Steve Duemig, spoke with Vick and his agent briefly at the Super Bowl. It’s not just BS from Schefter
February 5th, 2014 at 2:09 pm
Pretty good mpmalloy,
I don’t know if that’s a vision or an acid trip, but it’s funny! Good job!
February 5th, 2014 at 2:17 pm
Freeman did worse than Glennon his rookie year but fans still bought up his jerseys. Maybe these are the Glennon haters? At least I can see Glennon going through progressions. Glennon put up better rookie stats than a lot of the “great” QB’s did their rookie years.
February 5th, 2014 at 2:19 pm
According to the 2014 NFL Draft Chart even if the Bucs were to try to move up to the no. 2 slot, the value of ALL of their draft picks (1902 pts.) wouldn’t be worth the value of the no. 2 pick (2600 pts.). Therefore, the only way to move up to the no. 2 pick would be to offer a package of players and picks from the upcoming draft and future drafts. That’s very risky business, especially since there is not a “sure-thing” QB in the draft such as Luck or Newton.
More important is to better understand how Lovie and the staff he has put together will analyze the present roster’s assets to find the “keepers” they can build and implement a system around, recognize which assets don’t fit and then move them over to the “tradable” asset column of the roster.
Once that is completed then the “needs” column of the roster becomes clearly defined and the process begins to determine how to fill those needs through a combination of re-positioning assets presently on the roster, free agent signings, trades, and the draft.
Would Lovie consider trading this year’s no. 7 plus a future first round pick likely in the teens or twenty’s? That’s always a possiblity since this year’s draft value chart says the no. 7 is valued at 1700 pts. and pick no. 18 is worth 900 pts., equaling pick no. 2’s value at 2600 pts. The question is though, do they see one of the top 3 QB’s being the franchise QB for the next decade enough to pull the trigger on that kind of trade.
Me? I would take Watkins or a top DE with the first round pick and then go all out with the 2nd round pick or even trade up to the bottom of the first round like they did for Martin and get Garoppolo.
February 5th, 2014 at 2:21 pm
Dang Joe, was hoping you would take a stronger stance for one or the other then that.
February 5th, 2014 at 2:22 pm
how about Aaron Murray?
February 5th, 2014 at 2:24 pm
Third day draft pick.
February 5th, 2014 at 2:32 pm
I think Mike Glennon should do a photo shoot as Michael Jackson, the white one.
then maybe people will like him.
February 5th, 2014 at 2:42 pm
I agree with NY Buc – I think most people automatically assume that Glennon will not continue to get better because we all waited for five years on Freeman to show he reached his potential and it never happened. Fans have lost they’re patience and want someone NOW!!! I’m with them I want a winner right now. Maybe Glennon isn’t the guy, or maybe he his. There is only one way to find out and thats give him a shot. He might be the guy, but we can’t assume he is or isn’t. We have to draft another option and throw them both in the fire, see who comes out on top but don’t assume Glennon can’t be the guy because he looks kinda goofy and was a third round pick. Russel wilson looks goofy as hell to he’s just s inches shorter.
February 5th, 2014 at 2:52 pm
So Glennon isn’t even a decent quarterback?
February 5th, 2014 at 2:54 pm
“decent” would imply slightly above average. So, no (not yet).
February 5th, 2014 at 3:15 pm
I don’t like Glennon. I just don’t think he is the answer. As far as Vick goes, he is/was a winner. He would be an improvement over Glennon. I also think the Glazier boys want some national spotlight back on this team. That Vick will certainly bring us. Either way we NEED to draft a quarterback. Either this year or next year we need to drop the cash and draft picks and go all in on hopefully Manziel, NOT Bridgewater, or next year Winston or Mariota. Granted they could all be awful but we NEED a franchise QB. I personally like Garropolo but who knows. Bottom line just not Glennon. Joe please comment.
February 5th, 2014 at 3:18 pm
C’mon Joe. There is NO WAY we trade up to get Manziel (or Bridgewater or anyone else). IF one of them falls, we would be happy with that, but we all know we don’t have the ammunition to move up. With that said, the logical way to address QB is to bring in a veteran. Matt Cassel, Michael Vick or Josh McCown. McCown seems to want to stay in Chicago. If that’s the case, I would prefer Cassel over Vick. Just looking at their careers, Vick does not complete a high percentage of passes and is hurt a lot especially as he gets older. Cassel would at least provide competition for Glennon this year. By the way, I am not a member of the Glennon Mob, far from it. If there was a way to get Bridgewater or Manziel, I would be all for it. Just can’t see it being slotted at 7 with no ammunition to move up.
February 5th, 2014 at 3:30 pm
Joe Says:
February 5th, 2014 at 2:54 pm
So Glennon isn’t even a decent quarterback?
“decent” would imply slightly above average. So, no (not yet).
WOW, just WOW. not even above average for a rookie to come into all those injuries, crappy locker room vibe etc, etc, etc. and still win games and the praises of many national guys.
everyone has their opinion, but I did not know you thought that badly of him.
you know the more I think of it the more I like that you think he sux. as does sapp, king etc….the guys who really have no clue as to talent but sure have an opinion on everything the shout to the world, and are usually wrong.
love the site joe, but dang
February 5th, 2014 at 3:31 pm
@Brandon Says:
“…Glennon on the other hand got progressively worse as the season went on… Mike Glennon is absolutely NOT the answer…”
The team as a whole got progressively worse, not just Glennon.
February 5th, 2014 at 3:38 pm
Y’all must have caught Glennon giving your girlfriends/wives/sisters a shoulder massage or something…there certainly are a lot of people here who can adamantly say he’s not the answer at QB after one statistically good rookie season…all with a depleted running game, depleted passing game, and an injured/underperforming O-line. I’d wager that the teams that picked their franchise QB ahead of the Bucs this past draft (Jets and Bills in case someone isn’t paying attention) would probably love to have gotten the production out of their guys that the Bucs got out of Mike.
Just because Schiano is gone doesn’t mean the Bucs need to totally abandon valuing good character and become the team where players with rap sheets come to suit up on Sundays.
February 5th, 2014 at 3:59 pm
I’m going laugh my arse off if Manziel is a complete bust.
February 5th, 2014 at 4:03 pm
Disliking Glennon has NOTHING to do with Schiano. And personally I dont dislike him, I just dont think he is the long term answer at QB.
February 5th, 2014 at 4:04 pm
Shouldn’t judge him by his looks, ginger or bigbird turkey or whatever insult. He’s a rookie QB that is playing the game right, just slow going through progressions. If we get another rookie QB, he’ll be slow at reading NFL defenses too, so it’d be a setback. Glennon will be further along next year, than a rookie.
February 5th, 2014 at 4:15 pm
Joe/Joes…. Please stop swinging at Glennon! He is not greatness but give the young guy a chance
February 5th, 2014 at 4:17 pm
Joe….. From the sound of it the d-bag on the radio shouted at them as they walked by. Vick gave him a hand signal and his agent said “let’s keep our fingers crossed”. Not much was said and what was has little or no value. If I’m not mistaken a couple minutes before or after, you referenced a guy stating that everything you hear from teams and agents this time of year is total BS…….. And you agreed. In all reality and honesty not fantasy land where Ms. Watson is scantly clad hiking the football to a scantly clad Johnny football. Who do you think the Bucs are really thinking about going with at QB?
February 5th, 2014 at 4:18 pm
At least for one Joe I know he’s better then your JF! Wow! Wait you supported JFro
February 5th, 2014 at 4:33 pm
Vick has always been very over hyped and over rated. Now he is old and over rated. I doubt he could still beat out Glennon. Fingers crossed the Bucs don’t go here. I for one will never cheer for him no matter what. He did his time which allowed him to get out of jail but that doesn’t mean he deservers to be loved and adored by thousands and thousands of fans. If we bring him here I’ll loose respect for the entire organization.
February 5th, 2014 at 4:36 pm
Dreambig,
What about this organization is respectful, since 2002?
Nada…
Wasted years with a “Guitar Hero” impersonating a “Rock Star”.
A new beginning, finally.
February 5th, 2014 at 4:40 pm
Glennon is the man until he’s not!
February 5th, 2014 at 5:13 pm
@bwf921: Vick is a winner? In what? Dog wrestling contests? Look I am no dog sympathizer, but that is the only thing I can think of Vick possibly winning.
February 5th, 2014 at 5:25 pm
@NY Buc
I agree with you on Schaub but you need to do research, he is not a FA.. Schaub will be more likely be released due to his huge contract. If Houston goes Clowney (who McNair loves) he might stay put.
Just a little FYI
February 5th, 2014 at 5:42 pm
Who called for Vick and Tebow weeks ago?
ME!
Vick has never been asked to be a game manager.
So, lets just make him a game manager!!
He is always asked to do too much.
We just need him to manage the game. Throw strikes. Avoid sacks. And protect himself like Russel Wilson does.
Vick needs to watch Wilsons tape. He is so good at avoiding contact!!
February 5th, 2014 at 5:45 pm
Bill T Says
“Matt Cassel available. Take him over Vick.”
This would work for a one year stop gap, perhaps longer. The problem is that we won’t likely have this high a pick in the next few years…I hope. But I agree, anyone over Vick.
I have 4 season tickets I am waiting until last moment to renew, because if they sign Vick I won’t renew them.
February 5th, 2014 at 5:50 pm
I’m really not sure how Manziel will handle the spot light. He struggled and was , according to his own father, stressed of all the media attention last off season. Many questioned his work ethic and ability to be a quality leader on and off the field.
Joe I love JF but I have some real questions about maturity. Yes Favre had the same questions. But so did Ryan leaf. Both went in complete opposite directions. There are already flags on Manziel. (Would love to party with Sharlie sheen. The fact he made that public is questionable. )
If I’m trading up for a qb it’s for Bridgewater or I’m taking bortles at 7 or Garrapolo in the 2nd.
February 5th, 2014 at 5:51 pm
ClassieFreddieBlassie Says
“I agree Joe, I would really like to see a QB fall to us in the draft, however I don’t think it happens in the first round.”
I have seen several people say this. Please tell me, anyone, who above us is 100% taking a quarterback?
The way I see it, stand pat and if one falls to us (one ALWAYS FALLS UNEXPECTEDLY), fine. If not, we go with best player available, so long as it is an area of need.
So far as I can tell, areas of need are plentiful: QB OT OG TE WE DE CB & OLB.
February 5th, 2014 at 5:52 pm
Vick is a waste of time IMO. I’d rather have an undrafted free agent back up Glennon.
If our man Tedford likes MG that will be good enough for me. But I suspect were gonna draft a QB at 7 or move up. I only say that because Lovie isn’t going to want to repeat his no QB problem from Chicago.
February 5th, 2014 at 5:56 pm
Chris, you are right….it is a risk. He could be the next Favre or the next Leaf. Both had warning signs. That’s the gamble you take. If he is the next Favre, in a few years we will be complaining that Licht missed out on him if we do not take him.
Bortles is pretty good too. I think he is better than Bridgewater myself.
The way I see it, one of them will fall to us…maybe. We pick at 7…so what would be the best 7 guys we would like? One of them WILL be there.
February 5th, 2014 at 5:58 pm
Daffy Buc Says
“I don’t think the Broncos receivers would agree with the game “approaching flag football status”. They were all banged up after that defensive beat down!!”
There were a lot of defensive hits in that game that would have been called against the Bucs. The refs let that game be played the way it should. If they had stuck to the rules, the Seahawks would have had a lot of penalties…Broncos too.
That’s what Goldson brought us. A big target.
February 5th, 2014 at 5:59 pm
The Rams traded with the Skins around the league new year. If the new regime thinks there are 2 Qbs in this draft are better then Glennon, they need to make a deal with the Rams. I agree QB is the most important position on the field, if you have to pay a premium price, so be it.
February 5th, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Joe Says
“So why are the Bucs talking to Vick? Think he is going to sign just to be a benchwarmer?”
1 – They are not. Adam voiced an opinion, not a fact.
2 – Are you Joe from jbf or another Joe, because it is getting confusing, lol.
February 5th, 2014 at 6:15 pm
@Jonny 2.3 – Vick was/is a criminal. He served his time. Let that go. Before jail he took the Falcons to the playoffs. In my opinion he came back a better thrower, maybe not as fast but a better thrower. Look, he is not the long term answer. But Glennon sure is hell isn’t our franchise QB. A great QB makes the average players around him look better, not the other way around. Look at Russell Wilson. His guys weren’t even high picks. But he makes them look great. We actually have two great receivers. Imagine if we had a great QB. Again either way we need to drop the money and picks this year and get Manziel. Or suck again and get another top pick in 2015.
February 5th, 2014 at 6:19 pm
I’ve asked and have not found one credible source that is willing to confirm that they have personal knowledge of the Bucs taking to Vick or his agents. This is either very bad conjecture or Vick’s agents planting stories.
February 5th, 2014 at 6:23 pm
From the mouth of my great Aunt Edna “Dog Killer”…… Just say No!!
February 5th, 2014 at 6:28 pm
Oil Derrick Brooks Says: I’m going laugh my arse off if Manziel is a complete bust.”
and EVER let Joe forget it!
February 5th, 2014 at 6:35 pm
@Chris
Don’t worry about the Bucs drafting JFF cause he will not be there at #7.. Remember Oakland and Cleveland pick ahead of us.
As for all these people wanting to trade up, how do we do it?
Maybe our 1st this year, 2015 & 2016 plus Mike Williams to the Rams for their #2 & 13 first rounders this year? Doubt that would work but the Bucs are bringing a knife to a gunfight to be able to move up IMO.
February 5th, 2014 at 6:38 pm
Why are QB’s such incredible comment magnets?
Freeman, Tebow, Glennon…..even Vick gets a reaction.
What is our psychological fixation with QB’s?
February 5th, 2014 at 6:40 pm
WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT VICK IN TAMPA????WHYYYYYYY???????????
Look, how much money would Vick need to come to Tampa?
If he comes to Tampa, do you hand him the starting job, or make him compete?
How many games do you think he will start/play in 2014 if given the starting job, or how many will he miss due to injury?
I would take Josh McCown over Vick, probably Brian Hoyer and Kirk Cousins as well, and those three guys would have to compete for the starting job. Your not gonna pay Vick whatever his price tag is and not play him. At least I wouldn’t.
Draft a rookie QB
February 5th, 2014 at 6:41 pm
Not losing that one extra game really made all the difference for this team.
Manziel or Clowney. GET IT DONE. FIND A WAY.
February 5th, 2014 at 6:42 pm
Bring in Vick and Cassell, work them out and evaluate. Best one stays, cut the other. Glennon and winner compete for job. As Seattle showed us DEFENSE wins championships, and as our own Superbowl Bucs team showed, DEFENSE wins Championships.
February 5th, 2014 at 6:42 pm
and bring in one of the three listed QB’s above and let the three compete. If you don’t get the QB your going for in the 1st round, grab some talent on offense , then take your QB in the second.
I would also take those three QB’s before Cassel, Schaub or any other available QB.
February 5th, 2014 at 6:44 pm
@ BuccaneerBonzai, I was looking for those flags as well and thought of Goldson each time. Too bad we can’t have these refs for all of our games next year.
February 5th, 2014 at 6:46 pm
According to the writer of the piece, QB is the #5 need by the Bucs. So, there are 4 more needs above QB, according to the writer. If anything, this is an endorsement of Glennon. Of course, we need QB’s to compete and to back up, and possibly start, but hardly sounds critical of Glennon. Not really sure the point of this. obviously we will and should be looking at all available QB’s in FA.
“Throwing cash at Vick” is just another “over the top” statement none of the regular readers of this site should be surprised by.
February 5th, 2014 at 7:23 pm
OK as BucfaninMO bitchslapped me on Schaub is indeed still be under contract, but it is likely he’ll be available as a FA after the Texans most likely release him. So after doing some research as I was told to do I will modify my comments to IF he is available as most sources seem to think he will be he is probably the Bucs best bet. It frees up Tampa to draft for more pressing needs in the first round and then they can pick up a QB in the 2nd or later rounds if they feel they need one (but hopefully they still address needs on a best available player basis)
February 5th, 2014 at 7:34 pm
^^^
probably came off a little punchier than I had intended with that post. That wasn’t my intent, MO was correct. I had to deal with shoveling/snow blowing a foot of snow up here in the lousy Northeast, so I probably just need a few beers to relax and hopefully all this talk of Mike Vick and the Bucs will just be a bad dream induced by too much alcohol. Oh yeah…go Glennon Mob! LOL
February 5th, 2014 at 7:39 pm
A possible QB we could get would be Derek Carr. The kid can play and throw every pass the NFL demands. I’m not saying at #7 but with our 2nd round pick. Why not… And as far as Glennon goes, nothing about him says Franchise QB. With VJ and Mike Williams he better have some decent numbers.
I’m am also not against trading up to the #2 spot to get Manziel if he makes it past the Texans. The Rams know they won’t get the kings ransom again this time around. Throw in our 2nd rounder and we could get it. Manziel can make any throw and avoid pressure with the best of them. He would also provide this wonderful thing Tampa needs so desperately. People in the seats.
IMO there isn’t a FA QB worth looking at unless you are using them as a stop gap to sell the farm next year on Jameis Winston or Marcus Marriotta. Which giving up 2 1st round picks for Winston would still be the steal of the century if that were to ever pan out.
February 5th, 2014 at 7:43 pm
@NY Buc
No disrespect my Buccaneer brother!!
I totally agree with picking up Schaub.. He would be the best option in this sorry ass QB FA market, but at what price? I think he was scheduled to make $16M this year in Houston, but still has a big cap hit.
You near the city or upstate?
February 5th, 2014 at 7:48 pm
@NY Buc
I’m in the horse racing industry and go to NY often, I’ll buy next few rounds I’m there…
We need all the alcohol we can get as outta state Buc fans
February 5th, 2014 at 7:51 pm
@Andrew 1:
Thanks
February 5th, 2014 at 9:45 pm
Picking up Vick, Cassell, Schaub, yada, yada, yada……..all are steps backward if what everybody wants is a lasting contender.
What’s the point? They were all benched in favor of young QB’s with promise just like Glennon.
The ONLY option if Glennon isn’t what this regime wants at QB is the draft, and the only option in that scenario is using a high draft pick on one. Staying at #7 gets you the 3rd or 4th QB in the draft and trading up to #1 or #2 is ridiculous considering the potential players you’re giving up for that guy in future drafts, and besides that, there aren’t any QB’s in this draft worth that ransom.
I pray that all three supposed “franchise” QB’s get picked before #7, that would potentially put one of the actual franchise building players in our lap.
On a side note, Manziel will have had two top 5 left tackles covering his butt his entire college career. He will get crushed in the NFL turning his back to the field like he did in college unless he has a stellar O-Line. Impossible to build an offense around a guy who wants to do nothing but improvise.
February 5th, 2014 at 9:49 pm
@ BucfaninMO
I’m in Upstate…not too far from the horse racing August stopover of Saratoga actually, so second round will be on me
February 5th, 2014 at 11:36 pm
@Brandon at 12:20PM
Nice long post with many interesting points. Let me point out a few “soft spots” if not in fact a few holes in your analysis.
I could not agree more that QB sacks are a big “drive killer”. In fact, some could argue that a sack with subsequent punt is the worst possible outcome of a passing play……….. except for one……………an INTERCEPTION. While it is true that MG8 took 18 more sacks (40 vs. only 22) than Peyton Manning in their rookie years, Peyton Manning threw 19 more INT’s than MG8 (28 vs. only 9). So I would argue that 19 INT’s is likely worse overall than 18 sacks with subsequent punts.
I also agree that MG8’s performance in the 2nd half was quite poor compared to his performance in the 1st half of games. His rating for the first half overall was 100.9 (see “situational stats” on NFL.com), but only 63.7 in the second half. However Peyton Manning’s QB rating in the first half of his rookie year was only 76.6! In the second half, PM did post an incredible 68.8 for the 2nd half(sarc), which is clearly much better than MG8’s. Further down the page, you will see QB ratings for when their team was ahead vs. behind vs. tied.
When their teams were ahead, PM=95.6 vs. MG8 only 76.4 .
When their teams were behind, MG8=83.2 vs. PM only 56.5!!
When their teams were tied, MG8=100.9 vs. PM 90.3!
Lastly, I again agree that MG8’s performance was poor in December compared to his performance in November (three games with rating of 123.1 or better, offensive rookie of the month). But did he regress as the year went on?
Most people do not think that Peyton Manning “regressed” in the month of February? Rather the stifling and ferocious #1 defense in the NFL shut them down. Well, the Bucs’ December schedule included the following defensive units: Panthers (2nd overall, 6th passing), Saints (4th overall, 2nd passing), 49’ers (5th overall, 7th passing), Bills (10th overall, but 4th against the pass), and St. Louis (15th overall, but 3rd in total sacks, and 7 sacks that game).
Furthermore, three of those opponents were playoff teams (SF 12-4, Carolina 12-4, and NO 11-5) vying to win their division, and playing for a first round bye vs. our 4-12 Bucs looking to start their offseason. I think it is somewhat unrealistic to say that MG8 should have single-handedly carried them to victory.
tickrdr
BTW, I know that the Seahawks completely overlooked our hapless Bucs, but MG8 did have a QB rating against them of 123.1, with 2 td’s and no INT’s, all on their homecourt. Did I mention that he was a rookie, and only a 3rd round draft pick to boot.
February 6th, 2014 at 1:27 am
@ Joe
The saying is defense wins championships not games; as evident by what took place on Sunday. Sapp use to believe this and would say that it is because a defense travels. Sapp just this year started saying a defense will give you a chance but you still have to score and thats because defense has been eliminated due to the new rules.
In any case, I agree. Wilson based on his numbers was “descent”. His intangibles are whats makes him so good. If the bucs can put out a top 5 defense, then a descent QB may be all we need to make this as a winning team.
February 6th, 2014 at 1:45 am
@NY Buc
Been to Saratoga many a times.. Best racing in the country, always a party and best if all you can bring you own ice chest in!!
So my friend the next 12 rounds are on me.. We get low on beer we take the golf cart back to the barn and get another case..
February 6th, 2014 at 1:47 am
@NY Buc
Been to Saratoga many a times.. Best racing in the country, always a party and best of all you can bring you own ice chest in!!
So my friend the next 12 rounds are on me.. We get low on beer we take the golf cart back to the barn and get another case..
February 6th, 2014 at 2:40 am
Sapp’s been saying that for a few years now. There’s an NFL documentary that’s at least five years old with Sapp saying that. He lived it first hand. Once his defense had a decent offense, boom, Super Bowl.
February 6th, 2014 at 2:56 pm
How come Glennon is getting bagged on for sacks when we had patchwork O-Line with starters playing like garbage and back-ups worse. Not to mention having any time to identify blitzers. Other QB’s get more than 5 sec to set up blitz protections unlike Sullivan’s playcalling going through a 30 sec chain of command each play before the QB gets it. Glennon will be good if he gets a chance and his ugly mug will be on the side of Ray Jay.
February 6th, 2014 at 11:53 pm
@ BFinMO
sounds like a plan. The guys in Tampa get to watch practices and preseason games, so we’ll have to make do with horse races and alcohol.
February 7th, 2014 at 1:08 am
@ Joe
Please show me where I can find the documentary five years ago where sapp says offense give you a chance. All sapp ever asked for is 17 pts and we will win the game because defense travels. That is what he lived. He changed his tune very recently due to the new rules. You are better than that Joe. You have multiple links to various articles. So I am asking for a link from five years ago. My money is on the fact you can’t find one.
See response below. Your attitude is inappropriate, off base and not appreciated. –Joe
February 7th, 2014 at 2:55 am
Tim:
Believe it was “Top Ten Myths.” Joe’s seen it countless times on the NFL Network. Joe’s not going to dig for hours to find the link because Joe has seen it with his own eyes multiple times (you may be able to find it on NFL.com). If it’s that important to you, you can do the work.
And if you are calling Joe a liar, that’s just begging to get banned.