Lovie Needs A “Bad Guy”
January 10th, 2014
“Well, Mr. Joseph. You’re getting paid up here, but we need to pay you down here.”
Longtime Packers vice president Andrew Brandt, a personnel chief in Green Bay for 10 years negotiating player contracts, made a great point about Lovie Smith’s new role as Bucs’ all-powerful football man.
If players know Lovie is the biggest man on campus , then they know he’s involved in the money side of the game. That can be sticky.
Who’s going to be the “bad guy?” notes Brandt, who now works for BSPN and Sports Illustrated.
Brandt was in Green Bay when Mike Sherman was given widespread power before current Packers general manager Ted Thompson arrived to save the day. Brandt shared his views on WDAE-AM 620 this week.
He said the model of the head coach ruling the roost is “flawed,” especially given the increasingly shorter shelf lives of NFL head coaches.
“Coaches are going to be looking more short term than ever with those kinds of statistics. You need coaches to feel secure playing young guys,” Brandt said. “Will Lovie be given the latitude to play young players and go through growing pains? Or is it going to be a more short-term, play-older-players approach?”
Joe has no problem with a win-now mindset. Joe’s sick of the Bucs being a lasting pretender. But the great organizations are able to do both; play for now and prepare and build for the future. Joe doubts Lovie and his eventual GM will be well versed in that balancing act.
January 10th, 2014 at 8:34 am
Sounds like Lovie should be interviewing Andrew Brandt
January 10th, 2014 at 8:35 am
Love will not abuse his power. Yesterday, on the Sirius link article with the Lovie Radio Interview, Love said: “I am looking or a guy to be shoulder to shoulder with.”
I think Lovie wants something close to an equal partnership. Besides, Lovie will let his staff do their jobs without micromanaging.
Lovie is going to become a Godfather of the Bucs, with his face right next to Dungy and Gruden on our Mt. Rushmore.
January 10th, 2014 at 8:44 am
Be patient…we will have our “bad guy” soon!!!
January 10th, 2014 at 9:03 am
Yeah. Everything will be just fine. As soon as they can find someone who wants to work for Lovie.
January 10th, 2014 at 9:05 am
I’m wondering now why Dominick was let go.
January 10th, 2014 at 9:08 am
@Jon
The bucs are looking for someone that wants to work for Lovie. The answer is no one wanted to work with Dominik, Just ask Chip Kelly.
January 10th, 2014 at 9:18 am
I’m surprised there isn’t more concerns about how this whole GM search is going. Every one being hired before the GM. I’m not saying I think it be a total catastrophe, but I have my concerns. But just because it isn’t the ideal way to go doesn’t mean it wont work, but it doesn’t mean it will either. There are only a few people showing concerns. I would think there would be more of this over reacting fan base losing their freaking minds.
January 10th, 2014 at 9:28 am
@ chef
I am concerned…..but after the last few years I am over it. lost my fever for the team. Their still my tem….kind of like your PITA girlfriend is your favorite…….but there comes a point when you start to stop caring…..
January 10th, 2014 at 9:29 am
I think this wannabe controversy over Lovie having final say over the 53 man roster is way overblown. When I first heard about this, I thought this was a great idea – every coach’s dream to be the master of his own fate. HOF coach Bill Parcells said “If I’m going to be asked to cook the meal, I’d like to be able to pick the groceries.” He also said “If I’m going to get fired, I’m going to get fired doing it my way”.
I agree. I said it ought to be in the CBA. It’s the ultimate accountability for winning or losing. Unless I missed something, I thought that this arrangement was simply one of “I don’t like this guy, go get me another” or “I’m going to cut this guy, find me a replacement”. It’s the GMs role to say “Sorry, you can’t have that guy, you don’t have the cap space”. Other than that, life goes on and nothing is different.
I assume that the GM still has power over player contracts which force the HC to compromise. For the upcoming draft and FA, the HC and his staff give the GM and his staff a bill of material and they go off and fill it. They collectively go back and forth until there is consensus within cap constraints, then a shopping we will go!
What background or skill set does a GM have that would qualify him to best know whether the team needs a receiving TE, a blocking TE, or a speed WR than the people on the ground? This is why the Bucs seem to never have the right pieces when needed. This is not like the Patriots where Bill Belichick is both HC and GM. This arrangement forces the GM and the HC to be on the same pages and forge a close working relationship. It is a mutually benefitting arrangement. It is the reason why generally, HCs report to owners as opposed to reporting to GMs.
With the personality we have with Lovie Smith, there is no doubt in my mind that it will work for the better!
January 10th, 2014 at 9:29 am
Brandt is spot on.
The Glazers undermined the customary chain of command between the HC and GM. In reality, it’s a check and balance system on roster moves and that’s perfectly understandable. But the HC will be perceived by the players as the one holding the checkbook.
The reason we still don’t have A GM yet is that we are searching for a PM. Partial Manager.
January 10th, 2014 at 9:58 am
TBR. Ha. Good one. I thought Chip didn’t want to coach Rah’s guy Freeman! Whoever takes the job is doing for one reason, more money than they were making.
January 10th, 2014 at 9:59 am
I disagree that Lovie needs a bad guy. He puts your game film up in front of everyone and evaluates people publicly and fairly. If you got cut you know why. He doesn’t need someone to be the bad guy. You didn’t perform so now you’re looking for a job. Everyone is accountable for their own performance.
January 10th, 2014 at 10:10 am
I’m quite uncomfortable, as are some others, with this setup. But others on here think it’s no big deal.
It will take some time to know what the reality is. At this there’s no one poster that is right or wrong. It’s an opinion.
I think I am more uncomfortable with an OC and QB coach with zero NFL experience. We will know how that turns out a little sooner than the personnel control/GM powers situation.
January 10th, 2014 at 10:17 am
If they are starting to look at these younger office guys around the league, because this is a JUNIOR GM position, why not Quarles or Stokes who are already on staff???
January 10th, 2014 at 10:29 am
I have no problem with Lovie having the final say on the 53. My concerns are this:
1. How are we going to get a decent GM with everything being done before he gets here? With every hire, the odds of getting a decent GM go down a little by little. I like the pace of the hires though, I just don’t like how the GM wasn’t found first.
2. I love the Lovie hire as much as the next guy, but I feel like he being put on a pedestal by a large percentage of the fanbase. A person put on a pedestal has no way of living up to those expectations. And when he does make a mistake, he will fall off the fans pedestal faster than a drunk on a tightrope. And he will make a mistake. No one is perfect. Not you. Not me. Not anyone. Even Belichick and Reid make mistakes from time to time.
January 10th, 2014 at 10:33 am
@Oil Derrick Brooks.. I agree with you on being more uncomfortable with an OC and QB coach with zero NFL experience. More than uncomfortable though, I shake my head every time I think about it.
January 10th, 2014 at 10:41 am
heard Jay Gruden on ESPN last night and they were asking him about the clause in his contract giving him control over the roster. He said the same thing as Lovie, they will work together on it.
Its not the structure of it that is important but how it works in operation. Just because Lovie has final say doesn’t mean he wont delegate to the GM or set up a system with many involved and develop a consensus. They way Wyche and McKay worked, which produced one Hall of Famer, and two more on the final 15 list.
Remember Raheem had to ask Rock Star for permission to play Freeman. How did that arrangement work out for us?
Not an issue IMO.
January 10th, 2014 at 10:44 am
Chef Paul…about #2. I’m not in that category. I’m extremely cautious but optimistic when it comes to Lovie.
I see what your saying though. It’s like a large percentage of fans can’t help but get all fired up over Lovie. As if hiring him guarantees instant success of our team.
That’s not the route I’m going anymore. As a fan and season ticket holder (for the 1st time last season), I have been beaten into submission. No more tongue wagging, excited puppy dog for me.
The feeling of walking out of RJS with my head down too many Sundays this past season are still too fresh and probably won’t go away anytime soon.
January 10th, 2014 at 10:54 am
@87
Yeah. I don’t get that one. Imagine Arroyo trying to teach a veteran QB.
Btw – Go Noles!! I keep replaying the 4th qtr. I think we did pretty good considering Aubie knew every offensive play that was coming, all the way through the first series of the 2nd half. Could have been a blowout otherwise.
January 10th, 2014 at 10:59 am
I agree 1987, I’m cautiously optimistic too. I’m optimistic that it will all work out, but there still has to be reasons for concern. I don’t blame you for not wagging your tongue either. It must very disheartening to spend that kind of money, and take up that much of the day to leave disappointed more often than not. Not to mention trying to convince the wife to get season tickets again must be difficult too.
Oddly enough though, I’m not uncomfortable with the OC. Sure it’s a risk, but I really like his resume, even though it could be interpreted two different ways.
January 10th, 2014 at 11:02 am
Oh yeah, ODB and 1987 and others. Congrats on the Noles victory. I forgot about the darn game, but remembered just in time to see the entire fourth quarter. What an exciting game. I can only imagine the roller-coaster of emotions you guys were on during that last quarter.
January 10th, 2014 at 11:10 am
“I think we did pretty good considering Aubie knew every offensive play that was coming”
Oil your telling me. I must have said it looks like Auburn has a copy of the FSU playbook about 100 times during that game. Auburn’s D is garbage but yet they shut FSU down???
Thanks Chef Paul. I knew it was going to be a good game a month before they played. As far as emotions go. It was nerve racking, but being an edge of the seat nail-biting Buc fan got me through it.
January 10th, 2014 at 12:38 pm
Chip Kelly had a great year. But if I was to pick one team that will dissapoint next year. It would be the Eagles. They remind me of last years Redskin’s. With these college concepts. They are hard to disect in the first season. But with a whole offseason to study. They won’t suprise anyone. A fresh offence is better than having the same OC for 3 year’s. How many fan’s use the excuse that “well the QB has to learn a new system every year”. Everyone in the preseason was saying “RG3 will be even better, 2nd year in the system” ya no. Defences had the advantage, instead of trying to break them down in 6 day’s. Team’s have 6 month’s to figure them out.
January 10th, 2014 at 1:20 pm
I certainly have the same concerns Brand spoke of. Lovie is a very fine coach, however that doesn’t automatically make him very good at what would normally be GM responsibilities. Maybe Brand would like to sit in the seat one more time?
January 10th, 2014 at 1:26 pm
Joe,
Is it likely that the HC and GM having close to equivalent power when it comes to personnel is all designed to be that way by the Glazers? For the most part in the past the Glazers have stayed out of the way and opened their pocket books to support Building a team and returning to glory. That has not worked very well and it sounds like they are not happy spending heavily and still losing. Maybe the situation they are creating is to put themselves in a more active role as owners when it comes to mid-level strategic planning. By giving the HC elevated permissions, it sounds to me like they are devaluing the role as GM as a key desision maker in many aspects. Maybe that feel they want to be apart of key desisions more in the future. Not saying they are turning into Jerry Jones, but maybe just a few notches away from that type of active participation. Maybe we will see a lot of HC and GM ideas heavy critiqued by the Glazers in the future instead of being supported without much question.
January 10th, 2014 at 1:46 pm
All this speculating on how it will work and whether the Bucs will get a good GM.
Here’s my prediction…by the time they find a GM, everyone will be so glad it is finally done that they will go out of their way to make a dud look like a stud.
In all likelihood, it will be someone with no GM experience, not an ounce of contract negotiation experience, and zero Team Financial experience. Nothing but scout experience.
Don’t get me wrong, scout experience is a must, but those other things matter more because the coach and the other scouts can handle that end. There are people in place that can handle the scouting side, but there is no one in place that can handle or teach contract negotiations or salary cap management.
So that’s my concern.
However, after much research I have come to like some of the moves. Some are blah. Long as Michael Vick doesn’t become a Buccaneer I am fine. If that happens I won’t be attending games.
January 10th, 2014 at 1:53 pm
It’s funny cause no matter how many times Lovie actually says he’s going to be working “shoulder to shoulder” with the next GM whom he’s also repeatedly stated he’s not picking, this drum will still be beaten.
The GM will be doing what the GM normally does lol.
Also, absolutely 0 of what Lovie has said has ever pointed to him dealing with the cap lol.
As a matter a fact when he was asked during an interview about how he would deal with the cap he said clearly that was a question for the general manager when he gets there.
This is old already lol
January 10th, 2014 at 2:13 pm
“The GM will be doing what the GM normally does lol.”
Except have any say whatsoever on the entire coaching staff and (I assume) having any say whatsoever on what these coaches he didn’t hire gets paid.
That’s the concern I have. Not what the GM will do, but what the quality of a GM will be when everything is done before he gets here.
That old Bill Parcells quote works with GM’s too. Why would a quality GM want cook the supper, if he didn’t get to pick out any of the groceries.
January 10th, 2014 at 2:33 pm
You are being naive if you think that head coaches don’t normally pick their coaching staff with or without the GM in place.
Do you think a GM is more qualified to pick who Lovie coaches with?
Seems illogical to me.
January 10th, 2014 at 2:44 pm
You are being naïve if you think the GM has ZERO say. Which is what our future GM will have. ZERO
January 10th, 2014 at 3:11 pm
Oh yea? GM’s pick a head coaches coaching staff?
General managers are GM’s for reason, they are not coaches.
Other than in aiding a owner in picking a HC, GM’s do not pick a HC’s staff, ever lol
January 10th, 2014 at 3:34 pm
Jerry Jones hired, fired Rob Ryan and hired Monte. But wait, you said it never happens. Only coaches hire and fire assistants. Jerry is the owner but he also a GM and according to you that never ever happens.
January 10th, 2014 at 3:38 pm
??????
Is Jerry Jones the GM or the owner?
LoL come on now don’t make up stuff I never said lol
January 10th, 2014 at 3:40 pm
The “Owner” of the franchise can do whatever he pleases.
You can try and grasp for straws by pulling that out but, that’s pretty ridiculous lol.
January 10th, 2014 at 3:41 pm
“Other than in aiding a owner in picking a HC”
CLEARLY, my example does not include when an owner is a GM, lol
That was a good one though
January 10th, 2014 at 3:55 pm
Guy, you better not have a differing opinion on the GM/ coach situation. There’s only one opinion allowed.
January 10th, 2014 at 3:57 pm
You said a GMs do not pick a HCs staff, ever. I didn’t put those words in your mouth, you did. I gave u an example how the word ever is untrue.
Whatever. Its my own fault. I already know not to get in a debate with an abrasive know it all but I did anyways.
January 10th, 2014 at 4:00 pm
Chef, there’s no room for differing opinions. Just like with Ballard. It was DEFINITELY his family because that’s what the press release said. Absolutely no chance it was something else.
ONLY ONE OPINION WILL BE TOLERATED. Remember that.
January 10th, 2014 at 4:01 pm
AGAIN
“Other than in aiding a owner in picking a HC”
CLEARLY, my example does not include when an owner is a GM, lol
January 10th, 2014 at 4:03 pm
Just because most people thought you were speaking from fact as if you had some inside scoop doesn’t mean you need to be bitter about it lol.
January 10th, 2014 at 4:06 pm
And thank you again for proving my point, I did say GM, I did not say owner.
Jerry Jones title first is owner of the Dallas Cowboys, or are you going to keep grasping at straws?
January 10th, 2014 at 4:10 pm
That gave me a good laugh, but I’ve said what I have to say lol.
Done with this thread, on to the next 😉
January 10th, 2014 at 7:39 pm
Well. Thanks for coming in here, acting like a condescending prick when everyone is getting along and not calling eachother naive, get proven wrong, then change the rules to make you look not wrong, then twist my words, then twist your own words, then leaving, all in the name of your massive ego.
I guess I don’t have to worry about YOU putting Lovie on a pedestal. There probably isn’t any room after you hoisted yourself on it.
January 10th, 2014 at 9:44 pm
Hire Derrick Brooks!
January 11th, 2014 at 2:21 am
The Glazers did the right thing. I can’t imagine this same staff will be available 1-3 months later, because we want to keep the tradition of GM then HC hire. Lovie is clearly the top coach available, which mean a lot of great deals are on the table. Plus, some of his staff would consider jobs else where. It’s great timing on the Glazers part.
I know it may seem like putting the cart before the horse. But what good is it when we could end up with another Schiano, because we spent more time and focus on getting a GM first? Beside we are the only NFL team looking for a GM at the moment. We can afford the time to get the best GM we can at this time. Not like the Cowboys are in the market for a GM. lol. I had to do that.