Offensive Head Coach Is Critical
December 31st, 2013
Ken Whisenhunt is a wiser move than Lovie Smith
Joe’s got nothing against Lovie Smith or his five winning seasons in nine years in Chicago, but the dreadful offenses he consistently produced represent a red flag as huge as the one that swirled around the Bucs offense in 2013. You remember, the one that only scored 83 points in the second half of 16 games this season.
Anything that ugly is on the head coach. Is Lovie really the guy to pull the NFL’s worst offense from the depths of hell?
The reality is the Bucs need a new quarterback to compete.
They need a franchise-caliber quarterback, and an offense-first head coach is the best way to solidify the position for years to come.
The Bucs don’t need a defense-first head coach who will bring in a shiny, new offensive coordinator that will bolt for a head coaching job the minute he’s successful.
Let’s play fantasy for a moment: Imagine if the Bucs offense this year, under Josh Freeman or Mike Glennon, matched its 2012 performance (9th ranked in the NFL). Sullivan surely would have been lost this offseason for a head coaching job somewhere. Glennon or Freeman would have been stuck with a new system to learn, which is risky and typically bad for a young quarterback.
The best option for long term success is to have an offensive mind at head coach. Joe can’t see anything wrong with Ken Whisenhunt. The man is proven. He got it done in Pittsburgh as offensive coordinator with a young Ben Roethlisberger. He took Arizona to the Super Bowl. This year, he resurrected Phillip Rivers in San Diego.
Lovie Smith never had an offense ranked better than 15th in nine years. Joe just can’t embrace that, not in the NFC South, not with an offense that’s currently in shambles.
December 31st, 2013 at 9:08 am
Correct. Offensive HC.
December 31st, 2013 at 9:11 am
Just thought it was appropriate to repost this here, after it was buried at the bottom of the page in yesterday’s article:
Speaking of offensive minded HCs, I got curious and took a look at the Bucs offensive stats. Since ’76, the Bucs have been LAST in the NFL in offensive production five times. In 38 seasons, they have only been in the top 16 eight times. They have been 22nd or lower twenty five times! They’ve ranked in the top 10 offenses only three times.
One particularly interesting stat – in 2012, under Schiano, the Bucs finished with their HIGHEST EVER offensive rating – #9. That was followed up by ranking dead last again this year.
Only once in their history have the Bucs had a bona fide HoF worthy QB, and Ray Jerkins mailed him off to SF in ’87 for measly 2nd and 4th round picks.
Chip Kelly knew what he was doing when he turned the Bucs down. Tampa has been a black hole for offense. The Doug Williams curse still lives!
December 31st, 2013 at 9:11 am
I’ve been indifferent about which side of the ball the coach came from up til now. I agree with your logic on this one. If we’re going to develop a QB then we need to make sure that he’s staying in the same system and has time to grow. Whether it be a newly drafted QB or Glennon, I think some continuity would be necessary for us to get to that next tier.
December 31st, 2013 at 9:14 am
what did ken ever do! after warner left?and without rivers what os he i just don’t see him so great!
December 31st, 2013 at 9:19 am
I’m bucfanjeff, and I endorse this message.
December 31st, 2013 at 9:19 am
Whisenhunt has some issues.
His last year as head coach of Arizona his offense was 32nd. They lost 11 out of 12 to end the season, including 58-0 to Seattle.
In 2010 his offense was 31st.
Yeah he had a couple of good offensive years, but with Kurt Warner. His recent body of work since Kurt, as a head coach, is dismal.
Lovie has a much better record, over a longer period of time.
And whats the matter with dveloping a great defense with all these superstars? thats where our strength is.
And recall the Steelers did not hire Whisenhunt to replace cowher. Huge red flag in my mind.
December 31st, 2013 at 9:20 am
OC as HC that is…
December 31st, 2013 at 9:21 am
Lovie’s track record is also overrated, 5 winning season sure, but somehow only 3 playoff berths out of that. 3/9 seasons in the playoffs is hardly something to be excited about. That would be the major difference between Andy Reid and Lovie Smith, namely, that Andy Reid was a much more consistent winner. Lovie would be taking over a scary similar team to the one he led to the playoffs once every 3 years. Simply not a good enough hire, firing Schiano and replacing him with Lovie is the definition of a lateral move.
December 31st, 2013 at 9:21 am
@Scotty – What did Bellichek ever do without Brady? Or Lomardi without Bart Starr? or Shanehan without Elway?
December 31st, 2013 at 9:23 am
ken was under .500 as a head coach ! i just don’t see him being the one .
December 31st, 2013 at 9:23 am
In 2006 Chicago had the third ranked offense in pro football. With Rex Grossman at QB.
27.7 pts per game.
December 31st, 2013 at 9:23 am
@Joe
I don’t think the offense is in a shambles, I think it was a victim of poor offensive coaching and a rash of injuries, also, lets not discount the Freeman debacle. You literally had one player purposely tanking his game (and maybe GAMES) to force the hand of the franchise to do something about him. Imagine if you could prove he was actually tanking games, that’s criminal.
December 31st, 2013 at 9:24 am
Lovie can work with the right GM that can bring in an OC. At this point in time it is critical that the Glazers go with a low risk option that can restore respectability to this organization. Lovie will know exactly how to design a defense around the combo of GMC and LVD (think Sapp and Brooks). He also will have no problem assembling a great staff and getting the respect of players. It’s really a no brainer.
December 31st, 2013 at 9:24 am
@Bucrightoff – Lovie was also competing for a playoff spot against Brett Favre/Aaron Rodgers with Rex Grossman
December 31st, 2013 at 9:26 am
@Eric – I think Joe’s point here is that Whisenhunt is a better option that Lovie. I have to agree. Whisenhunt’s performance this season in San Diego can’t be overlooked. … He had successful offenses with three teams in two conferences. He’s also got that Super Bowl appearance, and that team OVERachieved.
December 31st, 2013 at 9:28 am
@FLMike – Cold is reality that the offense is in shambles. The offensive line has problems and questions. There is no No. 3 receiver. The No. 2 guy is coming off hamstring surgery, which is no guarantee. We’ve got one tight end that can’t block. And there is no stretch-the-field threat. Oh, and our QB isn’t special.
December 31st, 2013 at 9:30 am
if we can get Rivers ill take ken !
December 31st, 2013 at 9:32 am
@ JOE. I AGREE. Wisenhut is my first choice, Jay or Jon Gruden second choice. Then maybe Lovie Smith only because I heard a rumor that Jay Cutler was not happy in Chicago, is a FA this year and if Lovie comes to Tampa Cutler might join him. We have 17 million in Salary cap room to sign him. You never know.
December 31st, 2013 at 9:37 am
i’d take manziel over cutler. in fact, i’d be open to exploring the manziel option now that we’ll have a different coach. i just knew that it would be a nightmare scenario matching him up with schiano
December 31st, 2013 at 9:41 am
@Joe
I have to disagree, there are maybe two holes to fill on the line, and thats if you are counting out Nicks for next season. Williams went down early enough to allow for proper rehab of his hammy (plus he’s not one of those thunder thighed tight hammy guys, his injury came from over compensating for his knee which he had hurt earlier), our number 3 WR will be addressed with the 7th pick, I’d take Watkins or Evans (who would eventually replace JAX). The offense was poorly coached, which was the issue with our D when Schiano came in, remember? Look what good coaching did for that side of the ball. Bring in a offensive minded HC who will allow his OC to open up the offense, we have the play makers, let then play.
December 31st, 2013 at 9:43 am
Whisenhunt has had a good year as an offensive corrdinator. Hes a good offnsive coordinator. His record as a head coach is not that good, especially his last year in Arizona. Worst offense in pro football. Lost 11 out of last 12.
2nd worse offense in pro football in 2010. Does this sound familiar????
Man has had two winning seasons, with Hall of Famer Kurt warner.
Some guys are coordinators. Not head coaches. Look how arizona improved dramatically the year after he left.
Just sayin. Look at the guys record. Compare it to Lovie’s.
December 31st, 2013 at 9:43 am
Hmmm. Belichick and Brady, P. Manning and Dungy/Mora, E. Manning under Coughlin, Matt Ryan and Mike Smith, Newton and Rivera, Romo and Parcells… I could go on and on.. One of the few elite QBs in the NFL that emerged with an offensive coach was Drew Brees who was under Norv Turner and Sean Payton and Rodgers under SHerman and McCarthy.
If a QB has talent, it will shine dependent more on the talent around him than the scheme being run.
Smith is a winner, that’s what the Bucs need, a winner. He will make this D elite. Two years ago the Bears were the #3 D in the league, without him they were #30. For those that think the T-2 is a dinosaur, tell that to former Smith disciple Ron Rivera and the awesome division winning Panthers D.
December 31st, 2013 at 9:44 am
I think Joe should focus on GM first.. I don’t want a coach that hasn’t been picked by our new GM
December 31st, 2013 at 9:45 am
I think Brian Billick might be the guy the Bucs look at. He be a lot better than Lovie or Ken. Plus his brother in law is Mike Smith with the Falcons so that would add some drama.
December 31st, 2013 at 9:45 am
Whisenhunt did wonders with his young QBs, Kolb and Leinart. it wasn’t until he got a guy that already knew more about playing offense in the NFL than he did (Warner) did Whisenhunt look halfway decent. Anybody else remember the 58-0 pounding the Cards took last season against the Seahawks? That was not a well-coached team.
December 31st, 2013 at 9:47 am
Crazy thought but worth mentioning – When Shanahan won his 2 Superbowls with Denver his OC was one Gary Kubiak. And both are looking for a job. Just something to ponder.
December 31st, 2013 at 9:47 am
Patrick in VA Says:
December 31st, 2013 at 9:24 am
@Bucrightoff – Lovie was also competing for a playoff spot against Brett Favre/Aaron Rodgers with Rex Grossman
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And now he’ll have either Mike Glennon or ??? against Drew Brees, Matt Ryan and an elite Carolina Defense. Yeah, I’m sure it will go as well(likely much worse). With Jeff Tedford? Sorry but thats about as unispiring as it gets. We’re basically back into the pack of “Please God let a franchise QB fall into our laps”. If its not an offesive based coach then firing Schiano was pointless. Trading one defensive coach who struggles with offense for another is simply unacceptable.
December 31st, 2013 at 9:49 am
Oh and as far as Wiz being an offensive genius… his offenses finished 31 and 32 in the league in two of his last seasons with the Cards. A young QB needs continuity? Does continuous suckiness count? Because if it does, Whisenhunt might be the best candidate.
December 31st, 2013 at 9:49 am
Ken has proven he is a good coach if he doesn’t have a terrible qb. I vote for Ken and a QB. Draft or free agent I don’t care. As long as its not Kevin Kolb or John Skelton. The fact that he needs a good qb really is not a big deal. There is only a couple coaches out there that can win with a crappy QB, and they already have jobs. Where would Belichik be without Brady. Sean Peyton without Drew Brees. Mike Smith without Matt Ryan. Riverboat Ron was thought to be fired until Cam matured this year. Couphlin without Eli. Pete Carrol was considered a bad NFL coach until Russell Wilson got there. When Ken has had a QB, he has kicked ass. Jim Harbough and Andy Reid are the exceptions.
December 31st, 2013 at 9:49 am
Whiz is the guy. Resurrected Rivers and can do the same with another NC State project. Led the Overachieving Cardinals to the SB. No defensive-minded head coaches. No retreads. No one out of the college ranks. No one that hasn’t been active the past few years.
December 31st, 2013 at 9:50 am
I’d take lovie over ken. Whisenhunt declined after Warner and never recovered.
December 31st, 2013 at 9:51 am
@Joe – Whisenhunt? The guy has never won without a hall of fame caliber quarterback – Kurt Warner. The WORST thing the Bucs can do is hire him and draft your pinup boy, Johnny Football, with the the 7th overall pick. Hate to break it to everyone, but defense still wins championships (see 2013 Ravens, 2012 Giants, 2007 Giants). Lovie doesn’t need to be the guy, but our hire going forward should have NOTHING to do with the guy we just fired. The Glazers need to make the best decision going forward independent of what happened during the heinous schiano order.
December 31st, 2013 at 10:00 am
Belichek never won without a HOF QB. Neither has Dungy. Neither has Bill Walsh. Neither has Sean Peyton. Yup. Those guys are all terrible
December 31st, 2013 at 10:00 am
Just find a coach isn’t stubborn and will actually use the players talents on the field not chain them up. We all saw what happen when schiano didn’t allow the stunts on the d line. We got sacks, QB pressures, and hits. We saw what happen when we played more man and physical cornerback play. The QB had less time to throw and banks actually did a good job (he’s horrible in zone as is revis). And please if it’s 2 and 15 why the hell would you run it!? This next coach just has to watch the film, take note of his players strengths and talents and USE them! Schiano brought in a system and made his players follow it instead of adjusting to this teams specific strengths. I believe Lovie Smith will do just that.
December 31st, 2013 at 10:00 am
I, too am more open to a QB not that Schiano is gone. If I were the Glazers that is the question I would be asking potential HC candidates… Kubiak “Would you bring in someone like Schaub, draft a QB high or stick with Glennon?”
Lovie “Would you bring in Cutler?”
Frazier “Would you bring in Freeman?”
December 31st, 2013 at 10:04 am
“The reality is the Bucs need a new quarterback to compete.
They need a franchise-caliber quarterback, and an offense-first head coach is the best way to solidify the position for years to come.
The Bucs don’t need a defense-first head coach who will bring in a shiny, new offensive coordinator that will bolt for a head coaching job the minute he’s successful.”
“Ken Whisenhunt”
– Joe
I agree with the premise…in fact I’vw been beating that drum since Schiano was fired.
But Ken Whisenhunt?
No way. You say he’s proven? Joe, in the 6 years he spent as a head coach he only had 2 winning seasons. Some guys are meant to be HCs…others are meant to remain coordinators. Ken Whisenhunt is the later.
December 31st, 2013 at 10:08 am
really like Shaw from Stanford as an O.C.
December 31st, 2013 at 10:08 am
Brian Billick.
Winning coach. Superbowl coach. Offensive coach. He’s been an analyst for a few years which has given him a chance to see what works and what doesn’t. He’s used it to make contacts. He is very well respected…by players, coaches and fans.
December 31st, 2013 at 10:12 am
For the last five years, we’ve had to deal not only with the question of the team’s play but also with “Can this guy really coach in the NFL?” The next guy HAS to be a proven successful NFL head coach. I’d be OK with Whisenhunt, Smith, Kubiak. I’d also be supportive of Bill Polian coming in as President to help set up the organization, even though he’s 71. It’s time to put some adults in charge. The “up and comer” tack hasn’t worked.
December 31st, 2013 at 10:14 am
@Bonzai – He never developed a QB either. He went from Dilfer to Bulger. Tough sell man
December 31st, 2013 at 10:16 am
Who won the NFC South this year? carolina.
26th ranked offense, 2nd ranked defense. Who is their head coach? Ron Rivera, defensive coordinator background. (on Lovie Smith’s staff)
Who won it the year before? Atlanta. Who is their coach? Mike smith, background defensive coordinator.
Who is the best coach in pro football? Bellichick. Background, defensive coordinator.
We need a good head coach, and the last thing we need to do is pigeon hole ourselves into only looking at “offensive minded” coaches. Thats silly.
If the best available coach is from a defensive background, hire him. Anybody remember Tony Dungy?
December 31st, 2013 at 10:17 am
Bucs4Life Says
“@Joe – Whisenhunt? The guy has never won without a hall of fame caliber quarterback – Kurt Warner. The WORST thing the Bucs can do is hire him and draft your pinup boy, Johnny Football, with the the 7th overall pick. Hate to break it to everyone, but defense still wins championships (see 2013 Ravens, 2012 Giants, 2007 Giants).”
First, each of those teams had and have a franchise QB. Second, you skipped the 5 years that didn’t support your claim.
The roles are reversing, Bucs4Life. It used to be that a great defense with just a little offense was good enough to win the big game. Now you need great offense and just a bit of defense to even sniff the playoffs.
Take a look at the scores the teams in our division run up. Even with our improved defense they did it. If we cannot outscore the teams in our division, we will never be able to get into the playoffs.
We have to be better than the other teams on offense, or at least equal. Then our defense can make a difference.
December 31st, 2013 at 10:18 am
Lets see Whisenhunt was a looser without Kurt Warner.
Lovie went to the SB with Grossman!!! 5 winning seasons.
I’ll take Lovie any day and twice on Sunday. I want defense back!!!
December 31st, 2013 at 10:20 am
Patrick in VA, valid point.
December 31st, 2013 at 10:22 am
Patrick in VA, thinking about it, Billick was offensive minded but he still put together one of the best defenses. He would possibly be the best of both worlds.
And I think (think) he drafted Flacco.
December 31st, 2013 at 10:25 am
Wisenhut sucks!
He had Skelton starting!
He is just like Schiano.
Real militaristic meathead.
We need more creativity.
We need Lovie!
December 31st, 2013 at 10:25 am
“Who won the NFC South this year? carolina.”
What he said…
December 31st, 2013 at 10:26 am
Im ok with Lovie……but mike Zimmer or Jay Gruden please! I also wanted Adrian Peterson, Janoris Jenkins, hated we didnt re sign Bennet and get his brother…hated we traded away Blount!!!!! Just saying
But at least its a new day in Tampa Bay!!!!! So glad….this was needed!
December 31st, 2013 at 10:27 am
Brian billick!!!
December 31st, 2013 at 10:28 am
Does anyone think Lovie would consider a job as a DC? It’d be better than not working right?
December 31st, 2013 at 10:29 am
You anti-Whisenhunt people have no idea what you’re talking about. Ask those Hall fame QBs what they think of Whisenhunt and what he did for them.
Read what Phillip Rivers just had to say.
FACT: We NEED a new QB. Lovie ain’t the guy for that situation.
December 31st, 2013 at 10:53 am
@Eric – I remember Tony Dungy. I remember him having hall of famers drafted by McKay/Wyche on defense and getting bounced out of the playoffs repeatedly by the Eagles because we couldn’t score 20 points in a game. I remember his inability to hire offensive coordinators. I remember him drafting amazing offensive talents like Jacquez Green, Reidel Anthony, and Kenyatta Walker. So yeah…I remember. If you’re going to hire a Dungy clone, need to keep their hands off the offense.
December 31st, 2013 at 11:03 am
Now I don’t think Whisenhunt is slam dunk to be the best hire, but this whole, “He hasn’t won without a QB” business is the worst argument you could have against a guy. There are stacks of coaches that are considered great, that haven’t won without a great QB. I look at it as: When he has had a good qb he has kicked ass.
December 31st, 2013 at 11:07 am
I’m on the fence about Wisenhunt or Smith. Wisenhunt has had some success with his offenses in the past and the Bucs desperately need offense. Smith however struggled offensively and never had a franchise QB. The Bears biggest problem was they didn’t have enough dismissal seasons under Smith to warrant high draft picks. The Bears defense always kept them in games. So its hard to fault a coach for not tanking a season to pick out a franchise QB- see the Colts.
December 31st, 2013 at 11:12 am
Wihisenhunt is not a head coach he is a good OC , just like WAde Phillips . Look at his last season win-lose record that’s what we will have. Whisenhunt brings no excitement and nothing to make you feel we are not gonna be looking to fire him next year. Lovie having year to sit back has had time to see what he would need to do and I’m sure glazers will pay what needs to be paid for a top OC.
December 31st, 2013 at 11:20 am
Whisenhunt had Kurt Warner, without him he didn’t have a winning season. Look at Greg Roman from San Fran. Or Adam Gase from Denver. I think McDaniels would be a big risk.
I think Lovie Smith and a good offensive staff would be perfect. We need to stay away from Jay Cutler in free agency and look at Manziel or McCarron in the draft. Maybe even Jordan Lynch if we want an athlete/Wes Welker type receiver/QB Project
December 31st, 2013 at 11:21 am
Pointless discussions… Bring in a winning staff. Snow White and the 7 dwarfs would be fine if they took us the Super Bowl.
December 31st, 2013 at 11:21 am
The last time the Bucs had an offensive minded head coach they won the Superbowl
December 31st, 2013 at 11:36 am
No Lovie or Wiz. We won’t get a top QB with 7th overall. So let Glennon play his way out of a job. Revis ????? What a mistake. He might have made the probowl. But he’s probably not even a top 10 right now. I’d take Millner over him straight up let alone a 1st and 3rd rounder. Then have to pay him 16M per. Dom’s drafting was good but Nick’s,Wright,Goldson and Revis were all. Bad moves
December 31st, 2013 at 11:40 am
You guys are cracking me up, when are you guys going to learn? If the coaches are being talked about heavily in the media or on fansites, the Glazers are not going to hire them. We will gey a coach no one was expecting to us to get.
December 31st, 2013 at 11:44 am
Mr. Patrick, your right & it was done without a HOF QB.
December 31st, 2013 at 11:45 am
1) How about Whisenhunt HC; Lovie DC ? dream come true i guess.. 2) Whisenhunt is Boss – the GM in AZ was the problem – not Whiz the wise Point Hunter
December 31st, 2013 at 12:10 pm
WOAH. Pump the brakes on the Offensive Mind. You had your star RB go down with injury, you had Offensive Line Probowlers go down with injury, no marketable TE, 1 legit WR in Jackson and a ROOKIE QB who didn’t have a training camp at the helm bc of Freeman. Lovie Smith is a great HC and you have the makings of a good offense once you gather together the above mentioned mess.
December 31st, 2013 at 12:22 pm
Why is everyone jumping the gun here? Remember when Tony dungy went to Indy? He wasn’t exactly a offensive minded coach, granted he had Payton manning however they found good offensive coaches…who’s not to say lovie Smith’s staff on the offensive side can’t be good….yeah lovie isn’t a offensive mind…but don’t get ahead and anoint our future offensive as potentially bad….let’s wait and see what lovie Smith does, if infact he is hired as the new HC….you always say keep positive when it comes to the Bucs..I’m not hearing that…
December 31st, 2013 at 12:41 pm
I TOTAL DISAGREE WITH JOE…WHISENHUNT GOT TO BE THE WORST CANIDATE THAT HAS BEEN MENTION FOR THE BUCS JOB SO FAR. KUBIAK IS WAY BETTER THAN WHISENHUNT. IVE WATCH THE BUCS FOR OVER 30 YEARS AND WATCH NFL GAMES FOR OVER 30 YEARS ALSO AND IAM TIED OF HEARING THIS CRAP ABOUT A OFFENSIVE AND DEFENSE MINDED COACH…WE PAID A LOT FOR OFFENSE GURU GRUDEN…WHAT HAPPEN AFTER ALL THE PIECE THAT WERE IN PLACE WHEN HE GOT THERE LEFT?…..THE PATIROTS, STEELERS ,RAVENS AND A HOST OF OTHER TEAMS HAVE BEEN AT THE TOP FOR MANY YEARS ALL WITH DEFENSIVE MINED COACHES SO MY POINT IS LETS GET THE BEST CANIDATE AND AT LEAST SOMEONE WITH A WINNING RECORD…..PLEASE GLAZER FAMILY CROSS WHISENHUNT OFF YOUR LIST
December 31st, 2013 at 12:44 pm
No on Lovie Smith guys. He is just being interviewed for the Rooney Rule requirement.
Sorry guys. We know why you really want him hired.
December 31st, 2013 at 12:53 pm
This is ridiculous. This offensive minded coach versus defensive minded coach debate is dumb. There are so many “defensive minded” coaches with great offenses out there. Gruden was an “offensive minded” coach, but we won because of our defense. The Ravens won last year because of their defense. What matters is your QB, period. If we had Peyton Manning, do you think we would be last in offense? We’d probably be first. Hell, you or I could coach them to the top half of the league with a great QB.
The next thing people will argue will be that Lovie had never developed a QB. I would argue that there hasn’t been anything there to develop. I don’t care who “develops” him, Mike Glennon isn’t going to be a great QB. Neither is Rex Grossman. How often do you see a QB stink it up in one place, then go somewhere else and become all pro? It involves a lot of luck. Look no further than New England for proof. They passed up their guy 5 times. Do you think they knew he’d be great? Do you think Bellicheck “developed” him? Highly unlikely.
Get a good QB and we’ll be fine. Get the best coach available. This idea of eliminating a candidate because his background is in defense is dumb. Wins and losses are all that matters. It really seems like many would rather have a great offense and lose (ala Detroit) than win with defenses. I don’t care how we win, just win. That’s why you play the game isn’t it?
,
Joe never said a defensive-leaning candidate should be eliminated. However, when you have no QB, it’s wise to heavily lean offense. It’s not much more complex than that. –Joe
December 31st, 2013 at 12:54 pm
Outside of having a qb with a limited ceiling the problem with the offense is the OLine.
December 31st, 2013 at 12:55 pm
Yeah moron, they are interviewing him first because of the Rooney rule. That’s what it is. Looks like we have a new troll and Internet tough guy.
December 31st, 2013 at 12:57 pm
Lovie was fired for a reason.
The guy ain’t that good.
Rooney Rule = Lovie Smith
Tony Dungy only promotes coaches of one kind.
Tampa already had their failed social experiment with Raheem Morris.
December 31st, 2013 at 1:04 pm
Gruden was fired too. Every coach eventually gets fired. Lovie had a 9 year run, which is a very long run for the NFL. But it doesn’t matter, because you’re just going to keep all your stupid comments coming. Its really easy with an anonymous identity.
December 31st, 2013 at 1:04 pm
Seattle with the 17th ranked offense and #1 ranked defense busts a big hole in that theory. Do you think Seattle fans would rather Rob Chudzinski over Pete Carroll right now?
If you try to emulate every other team in the division, then maybe at best you win the division once every 4 years. But field a defense that is rock solid and you negate all the strength of 3 division teams in one fell swoop.
And even in this yard-crazy passing league, defense still seems to win championships.
December 31st, 2013 at 1:06 pm
Offensive or defensive HC “critical”, not exactly but the numbers modestly support that coaches with OC experience have a slightly better success rate in recent NFL.
2013 playoff teams, 7 HCs with OFF coaching resumes. 5 HC w DEF background.
Past 5 SuperBowl winners, 3 won by HCs w OFF background- Harbaugh, McCarthy and Peyton. 2 by DEF coaches, Coughlin and Tomlin.
Perhaps most interesting misconception, that you have to have a “franchise” QB to win a championship. Last 5 Superbowl winning QB ratings the year they won the Super Bowl-
Flaccco- 24th rated QB in 2012
E Manning- 11th in 2011
Rogers- 3rd in 2010
Brees- 2nd in 2009
Roethlisberger- 27th in 2008
Conclusion you can win a Superbowl with a defensive HC and without a QB that is a top passer but your chances slightly are better with a HC from the OFF side of the football.
December 31st, 2013 at 1:09 pm
@Joe,
So you honestly believe that an offensive minded coach is going to make a team without a QB into a good offense. When has that ever happened? Look at Dungy. Terrible offense in Tampa for years. Goes to Indy, best offense every year. Reverse goes for Gruden. Look at Rivera. He has freaking mike shula as his OC!!!!!! Good QB cures all. No good QB, no good offense. Its as simple as that. We won’t win squat without a good QB, but if we did, our best chance would be to dominate with our extremely talented defense. Utilize the strengths you have, not try to make what is crap into the strength.
December 31st, 2013 at 1:10 pm
Tampa does not need a blast from the past.
Besides, look how well Monte Kiffin has done this season.
The NFL demands offensive gurus… not stoic defensive coaches like Lovie and Frazier starring a stare of a 1000 yards wondering why the defense can’t stop the pass happy NFL where bumping and tackling is now illegal.
December 31st, 2013 at 1:16 pm
@ed,
Those are all franchise QB’s. You may not see Flacco as one, but I do, and apparently so does Baltimore. Look at the playoff teams this year. How many are going to be looking for a QB next year. Zero. You cannot win in this league without a good QB, period. There aren’t any exceptions to the rule anymore. Not in today’s NFL.
Also, Harbaugh was a special teams coach, not an offensive coach, FYI.
December 31st, 2013 at 1:17 pm
Atlanta had no QB, hired a defensive coach, and now they have a good QB.
Same with Carolina.
Whichever way you go, if the offensive guy (ala Gruden) is really the OC then you need a great DC. Like happened right here.
If the defensive guy is really the DC you need a great OC.
Either way works the same no matter how the team is presently constituted.
Like Hawaiian says, you just have to get lucky and get the right QB whichever way it goes. We havent had that luck for 37 years.
December 31st, 2013 at 1:19 pm
You guys talking about defensive coaches are stuck in the past. Not only has the NFL changed, it will continue to change. Everything in the rules hampers defenses. If we don’t get with the program we will never win our division and get in the playoffs.
And Dungy is a bad example. He went to a team with the best QB in the NFL and was told to leave it alone.
We have a defensive nucleus. Finding a good defensive coordinator is easier than finding an OC. We must get an offensive HC.
December 31st, 2013 at 1:31 pm
Defense wins championships. That hasn’t changed. That’s not being stuck in the past. SF, Seattle, Carolina are the best 3 teams in the NFC. All have great defenses. Green Bay, New Orleans and Philly all have great offenses. Anybody want to bet me that the offensive teams are going to win the NFC? You know they won’t.
Why does everyone doubt Denver. They have the best offense, and their QB has broken all the records. Its because of their defense, or lack thereof. Even if they do win it all, it will be because their defense steps up.
December 31st, 2013 at 1:32 pm
Eric Says:
December 31st, 2013 at 9:23 am
In 2006 Chicago had the third ranked offense in pro football. With Rex Grossman at QB.
27.7 pts per game.
Eric, I’m positive a lot of those points per game were defensive and special teams touchdowns. That was one of the most opportunistic teams at the aforementioned spots ever. That offense was average with a 14th ranked passing and a 15th ranked rushing offense. You need to have some weapons to have a good offense or defense and we have few right now on the offensive side of the ball regardless who the new coach or schemes are. Bif offseason needed to acquire some talent.
December 31st, 2013 at 1:34 pm
Like Eric said, get a good QB and hire a good coordinator. But our defense has the potential to be special. I’m okay to take advantage of that.
December 31st, 2013 at 1:57 pm
I would be Ok with Lovie as the HC and Chudzinski as OC. Then draft Manziel.
December 31st, 2013 at 2:15 pm
I agree that we need an offensive minded HC but I still hold that we bring in a vet QB to help Glennon for 2014 and if he fails under said coaching regime their will be great QB prospects in the draft in 2015. It’s to bad Lovie is assured a hire this year. Could you imagine HC Whisenhunt with DC Lovie Smith. And add Bill Polian as GM. I just got the chills.
December 31st, 2013 at 2:17 pm
Come on Joe, stop selling Bucs’ fans a dream. It doesn’t matter if the new Head Coach is an offensive guy or a defensive guy if they can get the job done. Which I believe Lovie can. I am sorry; I am not buying your sales job for Whisenhunt; if you put his and Lovie’s head coaching record side by side it isn’t even close. As a matter fact Whisenhunt is under 500 at 45-51; furthermore, he never won more than 10 games in any year and only had 2 winning seasons out of 6. Can the Bucs take a chance on that? Let’s look closer at his Superbowl run which I think was more due to Kurt Warner than Whisenhunt but they squeaked by Atlanta and blew a big lead against Philly and won on a dropped pass on a 4th down conversion on PHilly’s last drive. I keep hearing him get credit for Big Ben; sure the Steelers won the Superbowl while he was the OC but at that time Ben was a game manager; the Steelers won with the running game and defense. Ben’s real growth came after his departure which was really on display when the Steelers beat Whisenhunt’s Cardinals on Big Ben’s arm. I think the fact that the Steelers chose Tomlin over Whisenhunt to replace Cowher when it was widely reported that Whisenhunt was the favorite speaks volumes. I understand the fascination here; the Bucs need a QB to man a great offense and a great offensive mind to design it, but Whisenhunt is just not the guy to do it and his history says so and all you have to do is look at his QB failures in Arizona- Leinart, Skelton, Kolb, Bartel, Hall. Sure, Leinart wasn’t his pick but you’re not going to tell me he wasn’t salivating at the chance to work with the highly rated 1st rd pick but he failed at developing him. He hand picked Skelton and Kolb and failed badly with both. If we look deeper at the numbers his Cardinals highest ranked offense was 4th in 2008 with Warner; the other 2 years with Warner ’07’ & ’09’, they were a 12th & 14th. Basically, middle of the road so even with Warner his offenses were uneven; without Warner his offenses were down right ugly finishing dead last in 2012 and next to last in 2010 with a 19th in the middle in ’11’. Sure, he bounced back in San Diego this year but that was with an established QB who has been successful before in this league. We just don’t know if that will be the situation in Tampa next year, sure the Bucs could get an established veteran but that can not be guaranteed. Who ever they are able to get it will not be anyone with the pedigree of Rivers. I think in this situation Lovie is the better option.
Now let’s look at Lovie who is 18 games over 500 at 81-63. He had a 13 win season and 2 11 win seasons and appeared 2 NFC Championships going 1-1. The one he lost was without his starting QB; still he managed to only lose by 7 and had a real chance to win with an unknown backup. He made it to the Superbowl with Grossman at QB which is a feat in it’s self. He also won 11 games in a season with Kyle Orton who was a rookie at the time. This guy just knows how to win football games. Sure, he had some bad offenses but that wasn’t totally his fault as he had to deal with a GM who handed him lack of weapons and a very bad offensive line which is why I am hesitant to endorse Angelo. But Lovie knows how to win in this league and is a smart man who I believe has learned from mistakes in Chicago and knows the new dynamics of today’s NFL besides Tampa is known for defense and although there are some pieces on offense; the defense is stacked with a blend of young talent and veteran talent that Lovie can turn into the best defense in the NFL. I really believe he can do that imagine what he can do with Revis better yet young LBs like David and Foster. Why not let Lovie improve this defense to the point where they are consistently holding offenses down and not blowing 4th qtr. leads and still winning while someone like Tedford, Chudzinski, Turner or Linehan develops a QB and a potent offense. I’ll take winning over a supposed offensive guru any day of the week.
But this clamor for Whisenhunt needs to stop; he is not what everyone is making him out to be. If the goal is to win now; it’s not even close Lovie is the best option!
December 31st, 2013 at 2:20 pm
Take a look back at history. Tony Dungy wanted to get Bruce Arians, Norv Turner, and Tom Moore as OC’s. None of them came. He wanted to keep Mike Shula (who is not doing so bad in Carolina). We need a complete HC not a DC or an OC. We need ATTACKING offense, defense, and Soecial Teams. My vote us Mike Zimmer with a Brian Billick or Norv Turner as an OC. In the draft, we need a true number 1 receiver, a monster at DE, and one more shut down CB. We need to get a decent (not great) veteran QB who can start in FA (Cutler, Phillips, Romo, Cassel a good scheme (both Offensive and Defensive) and revamp the O-line (get younger stronger and quicker). I am not sold on any QB this year. I see about 5 Ryan Leafs and Akili Smiths in this years draft. That’s my two cents.
December 31st, 2013 at 2:34 pm
@ Ed
So you think Brian Billick is going to leave a cushy job calling 1 game a week and possibly take a pay cut to become offensive coordinator to work 80 plus? Not happening. He was a good coach who much like Gruden was known as an offensive guru. He never got that done in Baltimore which is why he was fired. His big years were with Moss & Culpepper in their primes that’s why he was hired by Baltimore. He’s been out of coaching for a number of years now. I would like it though
December 31st, 2013 at 3:02 pm
I don’t agree
Whisenhut has done nothing to prove he should be the coach over Lovie.
Other than be offensive minded?
Just saw on NFL Total Access Lovie will be our first interview 😉
And last one, count it
December 31st, 2013 at 3:41 pm
It does not state that
1. It’s minority coaches, not just african-americans
2. Tough luck, I don’t believe it says anything about having to interview both majority and minority.
December 31st, 2013 at 3:42 pm
Aren’t you the tool that claimed we wanted Lovie just because he was black?
December 31st, 2013 at 3:46 pm
It really makes no difference who we get as head coach, if he comes in and is not getting W’s how long until the “fans/local media” demands change? Say we hire a new coach and he loses his first 3,4,5 games will we a allow him to continue? Or will we hear how we need a new coach. I bet it won’t be very long until we hear this. Who ever we bring in will have my support just like I have supported all the other coaches we have had. GO BUCS!
December 31st, 2013 at 4:37 pm
Hawaiian Buc I stand corrected re John Harbaugh, as a special teams coach he was both offense and defense depending on whether his team was kicking off and punting or receiving punts and kicks. His brother Jim did play QB in the NFL for a while so maybe we can say he comes from an “offensive family”. That is in a good way.
I think nearly everyone in Tampa Bay can agree the Bucs need far more out of their QBs than what Freeman and Glennon have given us 4 out of the last 5 seasons.
I suppose the most critical question is exactly how much do you need out of a QB to playoff contend or to win championships. If it was purely about having the best QB than every single year you would expect Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees to win or be in the Super Bowl.
Obviously that doesn’t happen and QBs that statistically haven’t been top ten QBs like Eli, Ben and Flacco have taken home rings with better than or middle league passing teams. Now the Giant, Steelers and Ravens aren’t even in the playoffs.
Looking at this years playoffs Rogers, Brady, Manning are all in as division winners with Brees getting his Saints in as Wild Card.
If you went just a few years back and asked if Nick Foles, Alex Smith, Andy Dalton, Colin Kapernick, to name a few would be leading teams into the playoffs you would have been more than likely to bet against those guys.
Cam Newton was brilliant his rookie season and in years 2 and 3 he was mediocre at best. I recall the Bucs sweeping the Panthers not very far back.
I think the most telling game this weekend is the Packer-Niner matchup. Great SF D vs great GB O. This is the game that will either prove or disprove the great defense wins championships.
Back to my original thought, exactly how much better do the Bucs need to be at QB to get into the playoffs? Are we a Phillip Rivers or Jay Cutler away or do we simply need an athletic QB like Russell Wilson who in many ways Johnny Manziel could be compared to.
December 31st, 2013 at 5:29 pm
Finally! Some sense! Brian Billick ! Brian Billick ! Brian Billick !
They should throw money at him and Charlie Casserly until they say yes!
December 31st, 2013 at 5:36 pm
@Hawaiian,
I see your logic here but I must say, the argument should be a relevant and new NFL offense.
Not a ball control offense, which is what most Def minded coaches tend to do. If you can strike the perfect balance then that’s even better but the risks with a Def minded coach is the conservative approach which will not win in today’s NFL.
Seattle is as close to balanced philosophy wise as any of them but SF and Car have serious offensive issues at times.
I just want balance and a opened relevant attack.
December 31st, 2013 at 5:37 pm
Wisenhunt production and resume you cannot ignore.
December 31st, 2013 at 6:06 pm
Thanks for cleaning that up Joe
December 31st, 2013 at 6:24 pm
COME ON PEOPLE…LETS STOP THE RACIAL BULL …. ALL THIS CRAP ABOUT THEY WANT LOVIE FOR THE ROONEY RULE…..LAST YEAR NOT ONE AFRICAN AMERICAN WAS HIRED IN THE NFL AND A LOT OF THEM HAD A LOT BETTER TRACK RECORDS THAN THE GUYS WHO WERE HIRED…..TEAMS HIRE WHO THEY WANT AS THEIR HEAD COACH WEATHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT…..NONETHELES, IAM BEYOND THE BULL….IF LOVIE’S THE GUY SO BE IT IF WHISENHUNT THE GUY SO BE IT LETS JUST GET SOME WIN AND MAKE ME PROUD OF THE BUCS AGAIN …..IAM A SPORTS FAN NOT A SPORTS RACIST