With The Fifth Pick In The NFL Draft …
December 1st, 2013
How bout them Vikings, helping the Bucs move up in the draft today!
With leaky, sleepy Josh Freeman as their third quarterback today, the Vikings’ tag team of Christian Ponder and Matt Cassel led Minnesota to an overtime win against the Bears.
That means the Vikings are 3-8-1 and leapfrogged the Bucs in the 2014 NFL Draft sweepstakes.
The Bucs (3-9) entered today’s game in Charlotte sitting in position for the No. 6 overall pick. And that includes Joe factoring in the NFL tiebreaker mechanisms.
Today’s Jaguars win, and Atlanta knocking off the lousy Bills, made things tighter; several teams are tied with the Bucs with three wins. But the Bucs have played the toughest strength of schedule, which is unlikely to change through the remainder of season. That means Tampa Bay would lose all draft-slot tiebreakers with teams that share their record. The result of Washington (3-8) against the Giants tonight would not be relevant to any of the current tiebreaker scenarios.
The Bucs’ “fourth-place” schedule this season gives them a tougher schedule than the Falcons. Those 2012 fourth-place teams on Tampa Bay’s schedule turned out to be Detroit and Philly — two current division leaders.
Now Joe’s rooting for the Bucs to win games. When the whistle blows, Joe’s a fan through and through. But draft position is important — and there’s a lot to consider with a top-5 pick or better.
December 1st, 2013 at 8:56 pm
QB, QB, QB, QB!!!
There is NO other choice. What, you want to go thru another 4 years of a Josh Freemen deja vu?
Glennon is good, he is way better than any third round pick should be. But he is NOT a Franchise QB
December 1st, 2013 at 8:57 pm
“But the Bucs have played the toughest strength of schedule, which is unlikely to change through the remainder of season. That means Tampa Bay would lose all draft-slot tiebreakers with teams that share their record.”
hm… I thought it was the other way around. Wouldn’t it make more sense to give the team with the tougher schedule the better draft spot in the event of a tie?
Nope. Weaker schedule gives you better pick. –Joe
December 1st, 2013 at 8:59 pm
Penn sucks,the O-line sucks, Sheridan sucks, the playcalling sucks. The only “talent” that is on this team is Jackson, Revis (making big money and can’t stay healthy) David, GMC, Goldson (when he is able to play), Foster and maybe Barron. Did I miss anybody? Do you expect all that many wins from this bunch and a rookie QB?
@Harry 1. How do you evaluate whether or not a QB is “franchise QB” when he’s a rookie?
2. Who in the draft is “franchise QB” because I don’t see one?
December 1st, 2013 at 9:11 pm
I believe you Joe, Just doesn’t seem fair to me.
December 1st, 2013 at 9:11 pm
What we saw today is a better team, They have drafted better than the bucs for years, which is not good since the Bucs have picked in front of them for 4 out of 5 years.
December 1st, 2013 at 9:14 pm
@Andrew 1 – the idea is to balance the league out. If a tram is playing a weaker schedule and they’re still getting beat then they need more help.
December 1st, 2013 at 9:16 pm
Tram-team
December 1st, 2013 at 9:18 pm
@Buc1987:
I am sure no expert, but from what I am reading, this is supposed to be a very deep draft for QBs. If I could …evaluate whether or not a QB is “franchise QB” when he’s a rookie…”, I would be making Rock Star money, right?
But I have recognized them once they are in the NFL, and I don’t think Glennon is a Franchise QB. I remember watching several Franchise QBs play early in their careers, such as Eli Manning. I recall seeing a lot of WOW, even though Eli made plenty of rookie mistakes. I don’t see ‘lots of Wow’ with Glennon, some, but not enough at all.
I think with the Bucs drafting so high, there is a very good opportunity to get that ‘lots of wow’ on the Bucs. We have never had it, and this could be a good opportunity to get it.
December 1st, 2013 at 9:21 pm
@ Patrick in VA
o ok, when you put it like that it makes sense. I was looking at it as the team whose had it tougher should get rewarded for it more than a team whose had it easier. But your right.
December 1st, 2013 at 9:22 pm
Goldson is a mistake.. Unless he changes he’s a walking penalty in the making.
Dump nicks, bench revis and let him heal, dump sheridan, draft elite qb, de, ol, te, wr
Get a couple pass rushers in FA
Glennon might be the answer but I’m absolutely not sure at the moment..
Schiano? Not sure.. The guy has evolved and its draft pick have been productive but the fact that sheridan is still there makes me question its judgement..
The first big run in 1st quarter from Newton was a direct result of a failed stunt contain assignment. I almost threw my remote in my tv on the replay
December 1st, 2013 at 9:22 pm
No Brainer…a pass rusher..and offensive line..if we were picking 1..maybe Qb, but we wont be, and both lines are being man-handled. Getting rid of Sheridan is obvious first step, bUt we need a real edge pass rusher. beginning to think they stunt so much with McCoy and Clay, is because Clay cant win a one-on-one with a decent LT. So Sheridan takes GMC out of the play…watch the Cam TD run…GMC has looped outside and looks lost in space as he’s trying to keep contain. DC should be fired IMMEDIATELY!!!!! And how many weeks are we going to “blow” a coverage. This defense is like a “Chinese fire drill” …I cant believe Shiano is allowing this to continue, and he needs to go as well if he condones the “clusterf$@%K” of a scheme
December 1st, 2013 at 9:26 pm
Can you draft a new coaching staff?
December 1st, 2013 at 9:30 pm
and BTW, picking top 5 is great unless your GM trades down and takes a mediocre safety, while letting an elite MLB go to a divison rival…Dominik needs to go with Sheridan!
December 1st, 2013 at 9:41 pm
QB QB QB did I say QB. I’m not settling for mediocre and am not sold that Glennon can take us deep in the playoffs or where we need to be Suberbowl. Today was a day to help me get there with Glennon and that didn’t happen if you watched the game. In my opinion Glennon needs to win 3 of the next 4 to pass on a QB with a top pick in a deep QB class.
December 1st, 2013 at 9:43 pm
Clowney won’t be there @5, Glennon has shown enough not to “waste” a top five on QB. Either trade back to at least recoup 3rd rounder (Reavis trade) or pick Jake Matthews, as Penn is showing he doesn’t belong @ LT anymore. If this draft is as deep @QB as everyone says, a quality one will available into the 3rd round to at least give MG8 sme comp. BTW Sheridan blows and needs to go!
December 1st, 2013 at 9:46 pm
If Schiano manages to stay, obviously at least one coordinator is gone. Someone will be the scapegoat.
December 1st, 2013 at 9:50 pm
buccanAy, well said. The rockstar needs to go, a bunch of assistants need to go. And Schiano? I want to see him with another year with coaches who can find their ass in the dark and can coach up the talent they have. Too easy to dismiss players on short term data. Look at Underwood, the original Mr. Concrete Hands now a Mr. GlueHands with Cyrus moves.. Coach ’em up coach.
December 1st, 2013 at 9:51 pm
My vote is for Sheridan. Guessing sully is gone as will since schiano already has his guy on tap
December 1st, 2013 at 9:53 pm
yes..we have 3 massive holes in oline in Lt, RG, and LG…Penn isn’t horrible but he’s goin downhill fast, Davin has been horrible and Nicks was a complete waste of money….these are very important positions that will need to be addressed. The Revis trade was a complete FAIL IMO…we could have kept Bennet, signed Brent Grimes and Sean Smith, and had a 1st round pick last year and our 3rd this year. and added one of the many pass rushers that were available, like Abraham. IMO the sighning of Revis for the $ and picks shows the incompetence of BOTH Dominik and Shiano. How many SB’s did the Jets win with Revis…a shutdown corner is a luxury not a necessity, especially at the expense of the rest of the team.
December 1st, 2013 at 9:54 pm
I think this year’s QB draft class is overrated. I don’t believe in Johnny Football as an NFL franchise QB. Mariota (who sucks) and Hundley may not even declare, Aaron Murray has a torn ACL, and Bridgewater MAY have what it takes. I wouldn’t mind them taking a stab at a QB pick later on in the draft. We really need a Pass rusher and a young explosive WR and a big target TE.
I think Glennon will be ok with more creative playcalling (playcalling that was present the last couple of weeks until today).
On a separate note: Sheridan and his stupid stunts (especially on Cam Newton) is baffling. The 3 biggest plays Cam has had the last 2 games we’ve played have been from busted contain on a D-line stunt. The stubbornness and ignorance in the defensive scheme drives me insane!
December 1st, 2013 at 9:55 pm
Jpe.
I think the Washington game is relevant….Washington is above us at 3-8….if they win they will be 4-8…..St. Louis has their pick…but the pick is determined by Washington’s record.
We are currently 4th and will stay that way if Washington wins…
December 1st, 2013 at 9:56 pm
Peyton “Friggin” Manning could not have done anything with our O-Line today. I am willing to give Glennon a mulligan today. Draft on both sides of the line to include TE and Revis’s eventual replacement.
December 1st, 2013 at 10:02 pm
@tbbf – that’s all fine and good but Washington won’t win. They’re circling the drain.
December 1st, 2013 at 10:06 pm
@Patrick in VA….
Skins lead 7-0….I’m rooting for them…..how ’bout u…
December 1st, 2013 at 10:08 pm
Skins lead 14-0
December 1st, 2013 at 10:11 pm
Wow, who woulda thunk it.
December 1st, 2013 at 10:12 pm
I wish we could draft a DC and fire Sheridan. Stupid and pointless blitz all season and horrid playcalling – no pass rush equal ass Whoopins!
December 1st, 2013 at 10:17 pm
Harry that’s great then the Bucs better draft 3 of them just in case.
December 1st, 2013 at 10:19 pm
Pass rusher
December 1st, 2013 at 10:20 pm
don’t mean to rant..but IMO dominik and shiano are horrible evaluators of talent and more importantly horrible at looking at the big picture. Declaring Bowers a 10 sack guy was bad judgement and although I love the aggressiveness of Dashon, he’s a better version of our 1st rd pick Barron, when we really needed a true FS, a ballhawk. We desparately need a change at the GM position, or at minimum a change on player eval and how it fits into the scheme…the Dashon signing would have made a lot of sense had we drafted Kueckly, but no..we have 2 strong safety’s…sorry …sick and tired of seeing Dominik get a free pass…what’s his record since taking over? 25 – 49
December 1st, 2013 at 10:27 pm
For those of you who are ok “…to give Glennon a mulligan today…”, please put the joint down or the Johnny Walker and realize Glennon is Matt Cassel. I am not picking on Glennon – he has done an amazing job for a 3rd rd pick. And I am not picking on any one person in here, there are MANY of you that seem to be ok with mediocrity at the most important position in sports. THAT will never get us past rd one of the playoffs.
Some of you just don’t seem to get that this is a new age in the NFL, not 2002. Without a “Franchise QB – the Bucs will NEVER see the Superbowl.
December 1st, 2013 at 10:35 pm
It really blows my mind that with a third string running back, an o-line that’s playing well below their billing, one legitimate wr and a te that nobody heard of 5 weeks ago that petiole are saying that the qb is the problem. how about we give him an off season and some weapons so he can get a fair shake
December 1st, 2013 at 10:45 pm
Buc1987,
Got your message on the other thread. In the spirit of Xmas, you’re excused. I thought you were under the porch again. Lol.
Just kidding, but you see how much the rhetoric has changed. We’re back to the draft now. Last week we were putting out the fire under Schiano’s chair and anointing Glennon as the next Brady.
Best to wait until the games are played. And you know who I think is the weak link here. Give Glennon the benefit of the doubt. He’s not the problem!
December 1st, 2013 at 10:45 pm
@Patrick
Oops…you may be right 14-14…..
And, I agree….I don’t know why we expect so much from a Rookie QB…when nobody else does their job….no QB could have done well with our O-line and slow recievers not getting open early…..
December 1st, 2013 at 11:08 pm
I want to point out how the following QBs did in their first season as a starter and how long they were in the league before they won a Superbowl:
Joe Flacco – 80.3 rating (rookie), SB win in year 5
Eli Manning – 55.4 (rookie), SB win in year 4
Aaron Rodgers – 93.8 (4th yr) , SB win in year 6
Drew Brees – 76.9 (2nd yr), SB win in year 9
Ben Roethlisberger – 98.1 (rookie), SB win in year 2
Peyton Manning – 71.2 (rookie), SB win in year 9
Tom Brady – 86.5 (2nd yr), SB win in year 2
A few points:
1) Glennon has a QB rating of 91.6 (including the Carolina game), which places him favorably in the discussion of QBs above
2) Most Superbowl winning “franchise” QBs take years to get to the big game and win it. Roethlisberger and Brady managed to do it in their second year, but not only did they both have good defenses (3rd best for PIT, 6th best for NE) but they also spent more time running the ball than passing (PIT was 1st in rushing attempts, 32 in passing attempts; NE was 8th in rushing attempts, 24th in passing attempts)
3) A good to great QB by himself won’t get you where you need to go, no matter how well he performs. Philip Rivers averaged a 105.5 rating in the 2008 season and managed to only go 8-8. He led the league in rating, TDs, TD% and yards per attempt that season.
December 1st, 2013 at 11:14 pm
@Harry: Joe Flacco’s rookie season he threw 14 TDs and 12 INTs over 16 games. Pretty sure you wouldn’t have called him a franchise QB at that point.
December 1st, 2013 at 11:37 pm
Harry.
Your hero Eli this year 18 TDs 15 Int. Reason. Bad line play and protection.
We have a Rookie trying to play with an even worse line then they have. Guess the Giants need to replace him. He does not look like a franchise QB to me.
December 1st, 2013 at 11:53 pm
Stop trying to tell if Glennon is a Franchise QB or not. He has to prove himself to be one. Nobody was calling Brett Favre a franchise QB at the start of his career. Or Tom Brady. Or Peyton Manning. I’m not comparing Glennon’s numbers to that of 3 HOF QB’s, but making a point that even the great QB’s weren’t labeled as “franchise QB’s” so early in their careers. What Glennon has to do is continue to play well the last 4 games and earn the starting job for 2014, then go out and prove he is a franchise QB by leading his team.
And remember people, Josh Freeman was able to get the Bucs 3 wins his rookie year after them being winless before he stepped in as starter, almost the exact same situation as Mike Glennon! His stats weren’t even as good as Glennon’s, but apparently he showed enough to win the job for next year seeing as how the “rockstar” passed up on multiple chances to draft Tim Tebow, Colt McCoy, and Jimmy Clausen. Three QB’s who had stellar college careers (much like the ones coming into this next draft hmmmm?). What did Freeman do? He went out and led his team to a 10-6 record with the youngest team in the NFL. He fluked an ENTIRE SEASON, later proving that he was NOT a “franchise QB”.
So when can we truly be sold on Glennon being the answer? Who knows?! We won’t know until he shows us with his play, and it going to take more than 13 games his rookie year to prove so. So give the kid a chance, he hasn’t been the reason for us losing as much the other factors/holes in the Bucs organization (i.e pass rush, protection, playcalling).
December 2nd, 2013 at 12:12 am
Ronco,
nice job, that should shut harry up and at the same time give Joe something to shoot for at stating a case and proving a point.
well done.
I am watching rg3 right now….there is no way I would ever want him on the bucs.
give me a cool pocket passer any day over a cam newton/rg3 any day.
December 2nd, 2013 at 12:29 am
Harry,
in 2010 matt cassel went 11-5 with the second lowest payroll in the nfl.
in 2011 they had the 3rd lowest payroll and a 4 win season. All of a sudden he is a bad QB.
matt cassel has had 2, 11 and 5 seasons. Sounds like a guy who can get it done if his team invests in quality players.
I would have no issues with matt cassel leading our team.
December 2nd, 2013 at 12:30 am
@Ronco
It depends if we want a traditional drop back quarterback as our pass…and by “we” I mean Team Glazer.
Don’t forget, Team Glazer initially wanted Chip Kelly to coach this team…meaning they wanted a fast paced offense that was exciting and flashy with a quarterback who can move his feet but still be accurate.
They thought Josh Freeman was mobile enough to pitch this to Kelly…the Glazers aren’t ones to stay away from controversial players here (they have a deep history allowing big personality people be the face of their teams…Manchester United and Wayne Rooney are a classic example).
If Team Glazer goes 5-3 or better than I believe Schiano gets a do-over and Glennon is the guy for at least one more season…if not, then I would not be surprised at all if Johnny Manziel get’s his number called after the Bucs move down a couple of spots in the draft.
If Schiano stays then you HAVE to get Mike Glennon some more weapons on offense and diversify the system. PLEASE fire Sheridan and Sullivan, put Schiano in charge of the Defense and promote McNulty to OC….somethings gotta give…the similarities between the faltering NY Giants & Bucs offenses are too big to ignore. Same systems, same junk. Tired and old.
December 2nd, 2013 at 12:51 am
@Ronco (sorry Jo mama, I know I am right, so I don’t shut up easily, btw, when is your mama moving out of my house?):
All of the QBs you listed looked like they clearly had the potential to be “Franchise QBs” in their “rookie” season, except for Flacco and Bress. If you recall, EVERYONE was questioning Newsome for making Flacco a franchise QB even AFTER his Superbowl MVP victory. I mean, if you don’t believe this, why did Newsome wait until after Flacco was MVP in his Superbowl win to give him a long term contract if he was so sure Flacco was stud? lol
Bress, was an anomaly, AND lets remember San Diego had Rivers behind him. You listed 7 QBs, I am allowed one semi-anomaly.
Here is my perspective. Why not draft a potential Franchise QB with our high 2014 1st Rd pick next year? Glennon, could be The Guy. The rookie could be The Guy. We just doubled our chances in getting the ELUSIVE FRANCHISE QB. Everyone thinks so highly of Glennon, if the rookie beats him out, do you not think we can trade Glennon for a 1st or 2nd Rd pick? It is freaking money in the bank. And vice versus. If we draft say Johnny Football (Harry is not suggesting this is the pick), then we can trade him as well if Glennon turns out to be The Guy.
Low risk, and double our chances of getting the ELUSIVE FRANCHISE QB. The chance of this going wrong in minimal.
December 2nd, 2013 at 12:52 am
If Winston was coming out I’d take him if available. He’s the only QB I’m completely sold on to take in 1 round. We just have too many holes to fill to gamble on a QB.
December 2nd, 2013 at 12:54 am
The strength of schedule goes the other way around.
The tougher the schedule wins the tiebreaker
December 2nd, 2013 at 12:55 am
@Buc Fan 20:
Really? You are comparing the Giants O-line to the Bucs? When did anyone, let alone a guy off the streets, run for 150+ yards for the Giants? Come on… the Giants “O” is in way worse shape, as is their “D”. The Giant have far less talent on both side of the ball
December 2nd, 2013 at 12:57 am
Wait I meant weaker lol
My bad 😀
December 2nd, 2013 at 1:02 am
It makes since.
If you had the weaker schedule and you still lost a large number of games it must mean your pretty bad and need the higher pick.
December 2nd, 2013 at 1:03 am
The giants have a better coaching staff.
December 2nd, 2013 at 1:06 am
Dominick should be fined for not resigning bennet.
December 2nd, 2013 at 1:43 am
Those calling for Sheridan to be fired needs to realize he is running Schiano’s defense not his, which isn’t any better. They need to stop the stunts and consistently let McCoy go straight at the QB.
December 2nd, 2013 at 2:19 am
Everyone keeps saying…”Draft a franchise QB.”
Um, that is a LOT easier said than done. Just because you draft a guy in the top 5 doesn’t mean he’s going to be a “franchise QB” kind of guy.
And QB is NOT the only problem with this team. We are not a QB away from the Super Bowl. Our OL is overpaid and sucks. Our DL can’t get any consistent pressure. VJax is slowing down and we will soon need another #1 WR. We need a solid slot WR. We need a TE.
We need a lot of help.
December 2nd, 2013 at 3:30 am
ronco Says
“I want to point out…”
First, most of them did not play a complete season in their rookie year, in face Aaron didn’t play at all for several years.
Second, most of them regularly took teams to the playoffs when they were playing.
December 2nd, 2013 at 3:31 am
Jerry Says
“Everyone keeps saying…”Draft a franchise QB.”
Um, that is a LOT easier said than done. Just because you draft a guy in the top 5 doesn’t mean he’s going to be a “franchise QB” kind of guy.”
You are right, but it is the hardest position to fill and having two options instead of one increases the odds by 50%.
December 2nd, 2013 at 3:35 am
Glennon might be the franchise QB for years to come, but we simply cannot pass by this opportunity to draft a top QB with such a high pick. I don’t think Johnny would fit the system, so getting him would mean a coaching change.
I’m thinking Bridgewater is the way to go. Or another pocket passer.
December 2nd, 2013 at 4:44 am
New QB please. We have the worst QB in the division. Upgrade please
December 2nd, 2013 at 5:30 am
sad 2 day this is a horrible year 2 be a team in need of a QB, via draft or free agency. Philip Rivers will be given an extension or paid dearly by another team. Jay Cutler is a toss up but I think he gets tha pink slip and won’t be looking here 4 employment. Bridgewater is outta tha question unless u mortgage ur future 2 trade up 2 acquire him. Mariota has so much hype but imo is overrated reason being is look at tha type of offense Oregon runs. Heavy run, read option spread along with throwing from tha shotgun formation 99.9 % of tha time. He’s already behind in tha learning curve far as playing from under center and goin thru progressions. It’s not like Oregon is breeding NFL QB’s lately. Johnny Football….try again. Might as well get use 2 Glennon being our QB for at least until tha end of next season and FAIRLY evaluate him and his play after he has an off-season 2 prepare, a healthy roster and hopefully some speed cuz my God we need it BADLY.
December 2nd, 2013 at 6:04 am
Andrew luck is the closest thing to a sure thing that’s come out of college in a long time and once his main receiver went down he’s struggled mightily. If we’re so hell bent on replacing glennon, for whatever reason, why not use this draft to get some weapons in place so we can bring Winston in the following year and give him a chance at success. it seems like we’ve got a lot of people that are either easily impressed by a highlight reel that shows a quarterback running fast but fail to realize how poor their success rate actually is or we’ve got a bunch of Madden fans who think it should work that way in real life as well. Give me #8. Kid’s smart, gutsy and he’s got a much higher ceiling than petiole want to give him credit for.
December 2nd, 2013 at 7:43 am
Have we not learned our lesson from the four Freeman years? Buc fans would like to NO LONGER put all our eggs in one basket! Perhaps if we didn’t cross our fingers with Freeman for years it may be different. For goodness sakes draft the best QB position in the draft with the position.See what develops.
Increase our odds….PLEASE.
December 2nd, 2013 at 9:51 am
If the ‘Rock Head” is in charge of this draft, with the 5th overall pic…. we will draft a guy with a bum knee or is a head case….”We can rebuild him”
Can the G.M.!
December 2nd, 2013 at 10:02 am
@BuccaneerBonzai Says:
“Glennon might be the franchise QB for years to come, but we simply cannot pass by this opportunity to draft a top QB with such a high pick.”
Right on brother!
December 2nd, 2013 at 10:37 am
1st Rd – WR Sammy Watkins
2nd Rd – TE Austin Seferian-Jenkins
December 2nd, 2013 at 10:42 am
let me guess another gutless d end?
December 2nd, 2013 at 12:18 pm
Put me firmly in the camp that thinks drafting a safety a few years ago, where we did in the first round, was a terrible terrible mistake. Barron just isn’t a consistent impact player.