The Glennon/New QB Debate
November 13th, 2013
The Bucs have an organization-changing decision coming in May (Yes, it’s May) when the NFL Draft bell rings. Do they draft a quarterback in the first round?
As of right now, the answer is easy. Yes, the Bucs will have a new head coach and Mike Glennon won’t be able to do enough this fall to convince a new regime he’s a franchise QB worthy of passing on a high pick in what’s considered a great quarterbacks class of 20’14.
But the looming X-factor is Greg Schiano winning enough to get Team Glazer to grant him a third season. And that generates a second X-factor: the only way the Bucs win, say, four or their final seven games to save Schiano’s job is if Glennon plays great football. Then what?
Bucs beat writer Rick Stroud and columnist Tom Jones do a great job diving into the debate in the WDAE-AM 620 audio cut below. Stroud believes Schiano might survive with a 5-11 record and a lot of “asterisks,” seemingly referring to MRSA, Josh Freeman, brutally tight games, and the usual excuses/reasons.
Two weeks ago, Joe wrote about Schiano’s magic number, and Joe still stands firm on that. But loads of other media have been jumping into the debate in a big way. It’s a discussion that likely will rage on for weeks. (Enjoy the audio below.)
November 13th, 2013 at 11:34 am
The question is, at this point who would be shocked if Coach Schiano stays and the pop-star gets fired???
November 13th, 2013 at 11:49 am
Draft Johnny Football and a TE. <——Team fixed.
November 13th, 2013 at 11:53 am
Rock star stays. The guy has stocked this team with talent and his drafts have clearly gotten better. Spence and Mike James may be the cement that keeps him in Tampa.
Is Glennon all that horrible? I love Mariota but if the draft order goes 1. Jags 2. Vikes 3. Bucs or any otger situation where the bucs dont make the top 2 or 3 picks, both he and Bridewater are goners.
Heres what needs to happen – we keep tanking and get the #3 spot. Draft Clowney and trade for Roethlisberger. Not elite talent at QB, but Teo-Neshim has been miserable and Bowers, not even going there. Stack the D line, so Mr. Lovie Smith can put less emphasis on the offense to win games.
November 13th, 2013 at 11:53 am
Give it a rest about Johnny Football, dude is made out of glass, gets injured in almost every game he plays. Think that’s not going to happen in the NFL?
November 13th, 2013 at 11:56 am
Johnny Football is going to get creamed in the NFL. He makes games fun to watch but we would see more of Glennon on the field than him.
November 13th, 2013 at 11:57 am
I hope Johnny Football gets a good contract because DAMN that guy needs some Proactiv.
November 13th, 2013 at 11:58 am
@ Question -2 -JOE OR ANYONE ELSE WITH KNOWLEDGE ON THE SUBJECT
What is the all time record for (NFL) teams to start the season 0-8 / then win 8 straight to finish the season 8-8?
Then what is the winning combined W/L percentage of those same teams the following year?
IMHO rather hedge my bet on top pick(trade down/for additional premiere prospects ). Retool the roster. Trade for Big Ben or Sign Cutler/Palmer.
November 13th, 2013 at 12:01 pm
smh..gotta learn 2 proof read these txt. My apologies gentlemen.
November 13th, 2013 at 12:05 pm
I’m just trying to figure out what’s,the percentage of those teams had a winning record or made the playoffs the following year?
November 13th, 2013 at 12:11 pm
We have several viable options depending on draft position….we will have to be in the top three to draft Bridgewater or Mariota….and it will take that to get them and it may need the top two…because someone may trade up. I agree, if we can get one of them take them.
If we lose out on a QB….take Clowney and I would use our 2nd round pick (still pretty high) to pick a stll good QB that may be available…there are several possibilities.
If we can’t get a QB or Clowney…we should pick Matthews.
If we are able to get a Veteran QB in FA…then we don’t need to pick a QB in the second round.
Our new pick and Glennon will battle it out for the starting job. We know Glennon would be a great backup at least.
Also an option would be to trade down and pick up a QB later in the first…perhaps picking up another 2nd round pick or more.
November 13th, 2013 at 12:11 pm
You don’t draft a QB in the first round if Glennon develops.
Unless Johnny Football is available. Then you draft him.
Yes, I know he is young, immature and won’t be able to improvise like this in the NFL. But look what he did to Alabama 2 years in a row. If you are head and shoulders better then anyone in your Freshman and 2nd year the sky is the limit.
Any of the other QB’s have great potential… but it looks like we have that with Glennon… NONE of them have that certain ‘something’ that Johnny Football has!
November 13th, 2013 at 12:14 pm
Rick stroud and tom jones dont belong on the radio.
if I wanted facts I would read the newspaper.
November 13th, 2013 at 12:20 pm
Joe, thats TOTAL BS trying to put ALL of this on Glennon’s shoulder’s!! Especially when he’s a rookie….Come on Man!?
November 13th, 2013 at 12:21 pm
I think we should do what Carolina did a few years ago when they had Jimmy Clausen and then drafted Cam and brought in a vet in Matt Moore I believe.. We wont miss out on QB. Mike Vick can be the Vet that we can bring in as he won’t be resigned with the eagles and can still win games in his League, Draft a Johnny Football or another of the young stud Qbs and Mike Glennon and have an open Competition in camp!!!Revis and the Hawk and Penn and Joesph don’t have time to go thru another 3 to 4 year rebuilding process. they are in the back end of their 20s and Penn is already into his 30s.
November 13th, 2013 at 12:26 pm
The problem is we do not have a 3rd round pick and we desperately need defensive ends. However, if one of these QBs is good enough to carry a team on his shoulders with a lack luster defense, then I say draft a QB. In that case, Glennon will still have trade value if he keeps progressing throughout the year.
November 13th, 2013 at 12:26 pm
I want a Franchise QB first and foremost – an NFL team rarely has such an opportunity (how long have the Bucs been looking?). Taking Clowney would not be the worst thing in the world. But keeping Schiano would be…
November 13th, 2013 at 12:27 pm
IMHO Derek Carr > Marcus Mariota. The kid out UDubb QB Keith Price is real nice 2
November 13th, 2013 at 12:28 pm
Rock Star stays, only because he was GIVEN his 1st coach, & almost all GMs get to hire two. That said, he stays for 1 more year if he doesn’t make the playoffs. 6 years without the playoffs = you’re doing something wrong.
Johnny Football seems to be rising up the ranks. GOOD. If we play Clayborn & Bowers *the way they’re meant to be played*, we already have a very good line. Teddy Bridgewater just underwhelms me a bit, something Football never does. Heck, Bridewater won’t even take his team to a bowl this year. That is ultimate failure for a 1st overall QB.
Love me some Clowney, but he has almost no pass rush moves, & may be TOO big (read:tall & skinny). & I was surprisingly underwhelmed by his speed watching him play.
Johnny Football (Manziel!) just has instincts you can’t teach. He’s Tebow with throwing ability. We can pound the douche outta him, but you don’t wanna pound out the swagger. Heck, Mr. Brady’s sort of a douche, while Mr. Manning’s a nice guy. I’ll take the championships please.
November 13th, 2013 at 12:30 pm
BFFL—disagree. Clayborn, Bowers, Ghoston, Means have all looked competent-to-good when allowed to play to their abilities, & not made to fit a mediocre scheme.
November 13th, 2013 at 12:30 pm
Drafting a QB in the first round to become a starter is statistically the worst option. Defensive Lineman are the safest option. I think a team would be crazy not to draft Clowney at #1 overall, even if QB is their biggest need. The dude is 6’6″ 274lbs and has run a 4.46 40 yard dash. Can you imagine the Bucs having one of the best players in the NFL at the CB, LB, DT, and DE position? Just remember that there is a good chance that we could use our 1st round pick on a QB, and Glennon might still beat him out for the starting job. I don’t know if the Bucs can afford to use top draft picks on a potential 2nd stringer. If we finish with a top 3 pick and Clowney is off the board, I believe the Bucs could trade down for Cleveland’s two 1st round picks and their 3rd round pick.
November 13th, 2013 at 12:31 pm
I can assure you that if Schiano is HC next year, we will not draft a QB regardless of how Glennon plays in the final 7 games. If Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady were in the draft, he would not draft a QB. You see, Schiano has said that Glennon is the franchise QB, therefore it must happen that way.
Case in point is the stunt-laden, blitz- heavy defensive scheme that he continues to use. For as many NFL experts, former players, and casual observers that have pointed out the problems with the over use of such schemes, he still continues to do it because he thinks he’s right and the players are just not executing properly. It doesn’t matter if he gets complaints about the victory charge, we will continue to see it, not to mention all of the other Schianoisms that the players have to abide by.
Bottom line – he’s always right and we just don’t get it. According to him we’ll come around or he’ll just win anyway and show us! While there are admirable attributes that he brings to the table, that single characteristic – that I’m always right and I’m not going to change will eventually be the nail in his coffin!
November 13th, 2013 at 12:31 pm
LUVMYBUCS—was a Mariota fan until Stanford. He got a little adversity, & boom, kid can’t complete a pass, melts down, gets hurt. It wasn’t even close. If anything, that game woke me up to the possibility of David Shaw.
November 13th, 2013 at 12:37 pm
@LUVMYBUCS Agreed on Carr. 2nd round perhaps?
November 13th, 2013 at 12:39 pm
@Chris
Yep my son was telling me for months that Mariota was over hyped, couldn’t read complicated defenses/go through progressions. And that he’s numbers where inflated with all the screens/ dump offs / gimmick plays they run.
November 13th, 2013 at 12:42 pm
@BucsfaninChina
Kid has heart man. Don’t sleep on the kid out of UW in the late rounds (Keith Price)-He gave RGIII a run for his money a few years back in the Alamo Bowl. Reminds me a lot of Russell Wilson.
November 13th, 2013 at 12:48 pm
i would draft clowney in my opinion guy is a beast with him and mccoy their is no way the d line would not pressure and i would sign a veteran in the other side of the line. and get a mccararon from alabama in the second round
November 13th, 2013 at 12:51 pm
I have changed my perception of how the Bucs should draft as of late… I DO NOT think the Bucs should spend any draft picks in the first 4 rounds on a QB. I think the Bucs need to unload Vincent Jackson for a draft pick (probably 2nd or 3rd)… I would take our high 1st rd pick and move down a little and pick up another 2nd or 3rd rd pick. Then from there, I would draft Sammy Watkins to give the Bucs a young #1 WR with blazing speed, then use the extra picks we’ve obtained to pick up a 2nd rd DE and TE. After those 3 picks the Bucs would need to continue to increase their depth at WR, DE, and CB. I would give Glennon a year to develop and see where that got us. If he stunk up the joint and was the weak link on the team, I would draft a QB in 2015. I think this QB class is overrated. Mariota is SUPER overrated, Johnny Football is porcelain, Bridgewater competes against no one, etc. At this point, I would rather bolster the other positions on the team and see what happens… Imagine the Bucs offense with Doug Martin, Sammy Watkins, Mike Williams, and a 6’5/6’6 TE??? You wouldn’t need Aaron Rogers back there in order to win games.
November 13th, 2013 at 1:01 pm
Help Joe out. When was the last game Johnny Football wasn’t on the field for his offense’s final drive of the game? Florida last year?
November 13th, 2013 at 1:05 pm
The problem is not which player to pick, it’s which GM/HC will be picking him. If it’s the current regime they should be more focused on filling the multiple holes on both sides of the ball rather than on a single magic player.
November 13th, 2013 at 1:08 pm
MadMax:
Guarantee you if the Bucs hire an offensive coach, he gets to pick his own QB and if the Bucs have a very high draft pick, Glennon won’t be starting next year.
November 13th, 2013 at 1:11 pm
MadMax Say
“Joe, thats TOTAL BS trying to put ALL of this on Glennon’s shoulder’s!! Especially when he’s a rookie….Come on Man!?”
Kind of a double standard there. Freeman got blamed for everything.
More years in, but was the same players who failed him. And before you mention his current backup status, he was benched after one game without knowing the offense or his new offensive teammates. They gave up too quickly.
November 13th, 2013 at 1:14 pm
Wasn’t it last year when the Chiefs traded for Kyle Orton midseason and in his first game after trade beat the then-undefeated Packers. Think he knew the playbook like the back of his hand?
If Leslie Frazier didn’t dumbdown his offense to help out Freeman he is a complete and total imbecile. If Freeman doesn’t know the offense well enough by now, that speaks volumes as to why he is a bust.
November 13th, 2013 at 1:17 pm
Joe Says:
November 13th, 2013 at 1:01 pm
Help Joe out. When was the last game Johnny Football wasn’t on the field for his offense’s final drive of the game? Florida last year?
Oh I get it, he’s a “gamer” but that is college. You’re delusional if you think that he’s going to stay healthy in the NFL. He’ll be like Michael Vick, healthy for two games then out for four. Anyone who drafts him will need two QBs.
November 13th, 2013 at 1:21 pm
Draft Johnny Football. If he stinks, we can go back to Glennon! But the upside is too tremendous with Manziel.
November 13th, 2013 at 1:25 pm
“unload Vincent Jackson for a second or third round pick”
Trading your best player on offense for a likely bust……dumb idea.
November 13th, 2013 at 1:36 pm
Joe Says
“Wasn’t it last year when the Chiefs traded for Kyle Orton midseason and in his first game after trade beat the then-undefeated Packers. Think he knew the playbook like the back of his hand?”
Big difference. The Chiefs are a good team. Freeman was traded to a team that was failing miserably and still is. When is the last time you saw a new QB get one game and then instantly be demoted when new to the team?
Freeman started one game, threw an interception and they gave up on him without giving him time to get to know things. Perhaps they decided to give him more time to become accumulated but the staff would look even more indecisive if they switched back now.
They should not have started him so soon, but once they had, they should have stayed with him through some games. They blew it.
November 13th, 2013 at 1:51 pm
Derek Carr. Mark it down.
November 13th, 2013 at 1:54 pm
@ Patrick: Vincent Jackson is 30 years old, can not get separation from anyone and is owed $10 million next year according to “The Commish”… You would rather keep him and his “production” (leading the team in drops) instead of adding more pieces to your team, while saving some dollars? Would you rather wait until he has no trade value, then be stuck with his huge contract and nor willing bidders? Would u prefer to go back to Williams as your #1 again in a couple years and Skye Dawson, Underwood, and Page battling it out for your #2 WR??? Yeah, Vincent is our leading WR. He also gets the ball thrown to him 20 times a game. Donald Penn would be our leading receiver if he was thrown to that much a game. Bottom line is this offense has more holes than we have draft picks. A move needs to be made so that we can acquire more picks in the draft to fill holes instead of bringing in suck-a$$ free agents and hoping they have break-out career years (i.e Crabtree and our whole WR group outside of VJ). If we don’t fill these holes in the draft, Dom will be forced to do the 2 things he does best. Overpay free agents and/or just bury his head in the sand and ignore there’s even a problem at those positions.
November 13th, 2013 at 1:56 pm
Bonzai: Stop the Freeman apologies. My wife can throw a football better then me and “I” could have made a throw to a guy standing 10 yards in front of me. Freeman MISSED that throw on Monday night football.
Under ideal circumstances he ‘could’ be a good QB. However, he seems to be somewhat not ‘right’. Not concentrating on his craft or whatever. Its ALWAYS somebody elses fault!
November 13th, 2013 at 2:12 pm
Bottom line is Johny Manziel is a good college QB and it’s a moot point to place him right now because we don’t know the direction of the organization.
Until they first decide on coach and GM then we are in limbo. Mariota flashed but is being brought back down to earth a bit after some adversity and we should reserve judgement on him until the season is over and judge how he responds.
Teddy B is total opposite – just coasting along with little to no adversity. Which is just as bad and risky because you never know how the kid will respond to NFL lockeroom.
Let’s just first see what fruit the season bears out and the direction of the organization first and then go from there. I will say that one win is not enough to justify him staying – even winning next week. If anything it’s showed how under prepared he and his staff is with in game adjustments. I know Belicheat endorsed him but allowing Sheridan and hideous scene to continue is negligent to us fans and the team.
November 13th, 2013 at 2:34 pm
Look out for Jimmy Garroppolo out Eastern Illinois! He could be a late round option for us. I agree with you Joe, Let’s take Johnny Football and give Tampa someone exciting to watch at Raymond James
November 13th, 2013 at 3:34 pm
If the Bucs have a chance to pick a possible franchise quarterback they have to do it. Hopefully the new GM and coach are in place to build this team back up. The worst case scenario they end up with 2 good quarterbacks which in the injury plagued NFL is important. Alfred E. Newman and Skid Mark need to be gone though.
November 13th, 2013 at 3:49 pm
Vick was FAR more injury prone in college than Johnny Football. Vick missed stretches of games with injuries. Has Johnny Football missed more than one game?
November 13th, 2013 at 3:51 pm
Um, the Chiefs were rotten when they traded for Orton. Todd Haley had just been fired midseason when Orton was acquired.
Again, if you don’t think Leslie Frazier didn’t dumbdown his offense for Freeman, that’s fine. Only a complete tool would expect any quarterback to learn a full playbook in 10 days, Freeman, Manning, Montana, doesn’t matter.
November 13th, 2013 at 7:29 pm
You need a top qb to win a Super Bowl 11 for 21. 129 yards one td one pick ummm not it end of ?
November 13th, 2013 at 7:44 pm
@BuccaneerBonzai Says:
“Kind of a double standard there. Freeman got blamed for everything.
More years in, but was the same players who failed him. And before you mention his current backup status, he was benched after one game without knowing the offense or his new offensive teammates. They gave up too quickly.”
Really? There are still people who think Free is a franchise QB? So not one, but two highly paid NFL coaches (I use that term loosely) have coached him up, and tagged him not worthy.
Free, wanted out of here to prove he is the franchise. He failed his opportunity. If he did not know enough of the playbook when MN put him in, shame on Free. But forget that. I watched that game. Free missing his targets has nothing to do with the playbook – that is ALL on Free. He is a head case. He could not handle Schiano being wishy-washy about him. It is documented he came into camp with an attitude. Free did this to Free, no one else
November 13th, 2013 at 8:59 pm
59.3 completion % 9 TDs and 4 Int 213 yards per game
59.6 completion % 9 TDs and 4 Int 217 yards per game
One of these stat lines belongs to a 9-0 Alex Smith
the other belongs to a 1-5 Mike Glennon
Obviously the Chiefs should trade for the 1st overall pick for a real QB
November 13th, 2013 at 11:45 pm
@Harry Says:
“Free did this to Free, no one else”
Remember, it’s all about No. 5
November 13th, 2013 at 11:51 pm
Clowney looks awesome. We just haven’t had a whole lot of luck with QBs in Tampa Bay. Don’t forget, building a great D is what brought a championship here. Drafting a first round QB is such a risky proposition. So many things can go wrong. (Look at Freeman, all the talent in the world but he’s lost his focus). Draft Clowney, pick up a QB in the 2nd or 3rd, let him battle it out with Glennon… an insurance policy in case Glennon doesn’t continue to progress.
November 13th, 2013 at 11:57 pm
And regarding Schiano, if he shows improvement and maybe picks up a few of the remaining games, I say give him another shot. We’re all about this mob mentality in modern sports. Win now or get chased out of town. I think the *reasonable* bucs fans will consider the things Joe mentioned above (tough schedule, Freeman debacle, injuries) and give the guy another chance if he shows some improvement.
November 14th, 2013 at 8:59 am
This is just like the bad old days when we would start talking Draft after week six. I totally agree with macabee. If Schiano somehow retains his job, the team will make sure Glennon remains “his guy.” To me Glennon looks like Brad Johnson. Might not lose games for you but he won’t win them either. I certainly haven’t the skills to evaluate a college QB class. But I know this much; the things Johnny Football does can’t be taught. He reminds me of Bret Favre but with Tarkenton-like scrambling skills and Mike Vick-like speed. Question for me is if his head is on straight.
November 14th, 2013 at 9:24 am
Joe – “Guarantee you if the Bucs hire an offensive coach, he gets to pick his own QB and if the Bucs have a very high draft pick, Glennon won’t be starting next year.”
Cant argue with you there Joe.
@Bonzai, Gosh had his chances and blew most of them. It is a different situation with Glennon being mainly his inexperience so far. Gosh had a long ball and looked elite at times, but he blew it. Glennon wont blow it. He’ll either develop in time and we’ll all be happy, or he’ll reach his potential and be a backup. And so far, he’s heads above Gosh at this point, this year, which is what matters most.