Surviving The Coming Purge
November 5th, 2013
Joe has sensed a malaise among Bucs fans. After enduring 13 NFL weekends of winless football in the last 14 NFL Sundays (or Thursdays), and after having their say about the Bucs quarterback situation (Freemanites or card-carrying members of the Mike Glennon Mob) and hollering themselves hoarse over Bucs commander Greg Schiano, Bucs fans are building new rage.
So, needing a new target to throw spears at, Bucs fans have turned their sights on Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik. This same angry lot wants Dominik gone tomorrow, for no good logical reason.
Never mind virtually everyone in NFL circles is shocked by how the Bucs are winless despite the talent on the roster.
But sober, reasoned minds can see the winless Bucs are not the doing of Dominik. Woody Cummings of the Tampa Tribune can see through the hate and envision retaining his position with the Bucs after the coming purge, so Cummings wrote in a TBO Bucs Q&A.
Q: Do you see (Bucs GM Mark) Dominik getting the boot this year as well?
A: I can see why he might survive a purge, yes. The primary reason would be that he did everything ownership asked him to do for three years when he first took over. He gutted the team of its aging star players, which was not popular but necessary, and he started the rebuilding process through the draft. He’s taken some heat for some poor draft picks but every GM misses and he has been given very little credit for the hits he’s had. Mike Williams in the fourth round was a very good pick; trading up to get Doug Martin in the first was another and getting Lavonte David in the second was exceptional. Look, no one argues the Bucs are not a talented team and it was Dominik who oversaw the acquisition of all that talent. He seems to have done his job about as well as can rightfully be expected.
— Woody Cummings
To add to Cummings’ list, Joe would include a couple of third day draft picks who are playing well as rookie starters, defensive tackle Akeem Spence and running back Mike James.
Joe understands why Bucs fans loathe Dominik, mostly because of a dumb re-signing (yes, Joe typed that) of blocking icon Michael Clayton and some blown draft picks. Dominik bragged at the time he re-signed Clayton for his blocking skills, which floored Joe because that is like re-signing an offensive lineman who can’t block because of his pass-catching skills.
How many years has it been since Clayton was on the Bucs roster? Turn the page, people. It does a body and mind no good to live life as a hater.
November 5th, 2013 at 9:14 am
If Skid Mark is able to cling to the drain at the year it will show how committed the Glazers are.His overall record is horrible.
November 5th, 2013 at 9:20 am
Forget the drafts and Free agency of the pop-star. Forget about if he has hired coaches, assistant coaches and Front office personal. How about the fact that this is the second time the team has imploded without the pop-star not being able recognize the failing dynamic, TWICE, A good GM not only finds players, but players that work well with the team.
As far as I see the pop-star. I see a college/personal scout that signs contracts. And if he stays cause he is good at doing what he is told, Then maybe the Bucs need a GM that tells others what is good for the team.
November 5th, 2013 at 9:27 am
He’s made too many mistakes to survive, if Schiano gets canned so should Mark. This is one area I happen to agree with the Shaun King. His too biggest mistakes though: drafting of J. Freeman and the hiring of G. Schiano.
November 5th, 2013 at 9:36 am
Brian price. Arrelious Benn, Myron Lewis.
No depth whatsoever.
Dom should be the first to go!
Perhaps he could go to work at “JoeBuc”!
I hope so. Otherwise I’m afraid He would soon supplant Rachael Watson, as Joes object of spurned affection!
Just kidding , Joe! Don’t ban me!
But I must add, your admiration, of the very Unsuccessful tenure of Dom ,can’t be a healthy thing!
November 5th, 2013 at 9:42 am
Whoa whoa whoa… Stop the clock. “Some blown picks?”
The entire 2009 draft is off the books. Gone. He didn’t miss a pick. He missed a DRAFT.
In all his years with the Bucs he has extended the contract of exactly ONE of his draftee. One. That means he, by his own admission, has found one player worth keeping.
November 5th, 2013 at 9:44 am
I still remember Dominik scoffing during the post draft press conference in 2010 when asked why he passed on Golden Tate in the second round so he could TRADE UP and draft Arrelious Benn. Dominik pointed out to how Tate fell a number of picks further and assured the press it wasn’t a close call between the two.
Dominik was right, it wasn’t close:
Tate’s Career 136 Rec 1,765 yds 13 TD
Benn’s Career 59 Rec 862 yds 5 TD
Of course we all know of the free agent triump that was 2012 with Vincent Jackson, Carl Nicks and Eric Wright. Wright was a collosal bust and Nicks has played a third of the games since signing a $47.5 million dollar deal. Jackson has been great, but 1 out of 3 isn’t stellar especially when that is your “signature” signing.
November 5th, 2013 at 9:51 am
Joe..do you think we are stupid?
November 5th, 2013 at 9:51 am
Enough of this Golden Tate vs. Arrellious Benn debate.
Both of those guys have not lived up to their draft status. Tate has been an average to below average WR. And Benn was well, he was a nobody.
Dominik may not survive the purge because he drafted Josh Freeman. He didnt necessarily strike out with that pick. But its damn close. Freeman is a big reason why our season when down the toilet.
I’d get on Dominik about signing guys like Derrick Ward and Eric Wright before Mike Clayton.
Every GM has his hits and misses. And honestly, Mark probably has more hits. But the miss on Freeman may be the one that does him in.
November 5th, 2013 at 9:54 am
I’d says 0 for 3 in 2012 tom. Vincent jackson is 30 and getting slower by the minute. Has he gotten any serperation from DB’s this year? I haven’t seen it.
November 5th, 2013 at 9:55 am
The current “body of work” is 1-13.
The overall “body of work” is 24-48.
It includes 7, 10, 5, and 8 game losing streaks.
The opinion (not hateful) that he doe not deserve to remain GM does not have anything to do with Michael Clayton.
Also, many of us are concerned that if he remains GM and assists in choosing the next coach it wont turn out very good – such as the current disaster.
And, lastly, keeping him in place creates the strong possibility of narrowing the pool of potential coaches by eliminating those that want their own personnel guy. A legit head coach would be very leery of staking his professional reputation and future on Mr. Dominik’s acumen.
No hate Joe. Just like you don’t “hate” Bruce Allen when you rip him. Just humble opinions.
November 5th, 2013 at 9:55 am
Dude freeman blows! He isn’t even starting at the vikings over ponder! hahaha what a mental midget joke of a quarterback
November 5th, 2013 at 10:01 am
The NFL is about one thing. Finding a Quarterback. Ask Green Bay last night how important that is. Forget Tate vs. Benn its not about that, its the QB. How do the Pats win every year – Brady, why does Polian get fired after one losing season – Manning Injured. Why did Elway “waste a draft pick” and draft a QB in the 2nd round after signing Manning – QB. Freeman did not work out, but I will say he looked to be worth the shot, Bucs didn’t have a franchise QB. Glennon is 0-5 I get that but he looks like he has a chance, at least there are trying to find one. Why did the Bucs only win one SB with the team in the 90’s and 00’s – QB play (Dilfer and King but finally Brad Johnson) I watched Glennon, he needs to win games sure, but seems to me he is playing better and better.
November 5th, 2013 at 10:02 am
Joe how do you count the last game of the season in Atlanta a win? Atlanta had absolutely nothing to play for in that game.
So, it should be a loss, please. –Joe
November 5th, 2013 at 10:03 am
That would be believable if Dominick wasn’t spoon feeding the local media his argument for staying.
-We have ZERO picks left from the 2009 draft.
-Ownership has dumped tens of millions into signing bonuses for guys that cant seem to stay on the field: Q. Black, G. McCoy, B. Price, C. Nicks, A. Clayborne, D. Bowers, D. Joseph, M. Williams
-Ownership doesn’t spend massive amounts of money for a GM that consistently produces losing seasons, 2 of which now involve 10 game losing streaks
-You give credit of Lavonte David, M. James, D. Martin, etc. How about Kyle Moore, Myron Lewis, JOSH FREEMAN
-Speaking of JOSH FREEMAN, what a fantastic job of GM work there. Fail to sign a veteran in the offseason but make it known you are looking. That gave Freeman’s camp the upper hand and in the end ownership will be paying his salary and couldn’t get even a conditional 7th rounder
-$16 MILLION to watch REVIS PLAY ZONE COVERAGE because he’s not healthy, what did we trade for that gem?
-Goldston got how much? He’s cost us at least 1 game to late hits and is one late hit away from suspension…..BRILLIANT
-WE HAVE ZERO DEPTH ON DEFENSE. Our secondary is starting Michael Adams……AWESOME.
-WE HAVE TWO 1ST ROUND PICKS and a 2nd ROUND PICK on a D-Line that has produced a whopping 27.5 SACKS in THREE!!!! YRS….TOTAL FOR ALL THREE. DO THE MATH, that’s an avg of 3 sacks per player per season.
-FINALLY, THE GM PICKS THE COACH. YOU ARE BLINE TO HOW FOOTBALL OPERATIONS WORK IF YOU IGNORE THIS FACT. ITS THE GM’s JOB to produce a winner. Otherwise the talent is wasted money and OWNERSHIP HATES WASTING MILLIONS ON NOTHING. Billionaires dont become billionaires by being wasteful with their money. There ultimate goal is to put money in the bank not make excuses for a crappy team.
November 5th, 2013 at 10:10 am
Canning Dominick would be the wrong move. It would be firing for the sake of change and not because of poor performance. I’ve had no problems with the drafts we’ve had the last few years or with the signings (save for bringing in Haynesworth, albeit at a low salary). Dom is not the problem.
November 5th, 2013 at 10:11 am
@Captain,
I agree, delusional hero worship is very unhealthy.
November 5th, 2013 at 10:11 am
Clearly he blew his most important pick! HEAD COACH
There is no more important pick than that. Do you want him reposible for that again?
November 5th, 2013 at 10:11 am
Denial ain’t just a river in Africa…..
November 5th, 2013 at 10:15 am
Everyone brings up Dom’s overall record but they leave out the part where he wasn’t allowed to spend money for 2 of those years and he was handed a coach and coaching staff that were thrift store grade. Yeah, they lost a lot of games but they weren’t exactly set up for success by the ownership. Once they cut the chains off of him he’s done well to stock the team with good players that have either been hurt, out of his control, or poorly coached, also out of his control.
November 5th, 2013 at 10:21 am
I am still waiting on an employed NFL GM with a worse record.
Joe’s best guess, when asked, was Jeff Ireland:
Ireland – 42-46 .477%
Teflon Dom – 24-48 .333%
November 5th, 2013 at 10:21 am
The pop-star was handed a team that was already had the salary cap fixed, He signed lots of bad contracts in his first year, some did not even play, McCown, Crowell, Nuggent kicked for a game or two,
Also realize how bad the team is, Since the pop-star has taken over the team (taking orders some say) his average draft position is #9, for 4 years on average he is drafting in front of 23 other teams. This average position is going to go down this year with a higher pick, Luckily , we should have a new GM selecting the pick.
When looking back we will regard Coach Schaino as a hero that took down the pop-star.
November 5th, 2013 at 10:22 am
They are currently 1-13 after the chain cutting.
He participated mightily in the selection of the lousy coach. Yeah I know the Glazer’s hired him, but that is the way it is with every NFL team. Dominik was dang sure right in the middle of it.
For that one move, setting aside the horrific record, he deserves to be fired. Any GM worth his salt should have seen this coming. He didn’t.
How many excuses does one guy get?
November 5th, 2013 at 10:27 am
I’ll give you that whatever role he had in Schiano being brought in is a pretty significant blow to his credibility but I don’t think he’s failed at his job as a whole. A better coach would have gotten much more out of the players that Dominick has stocked the team with
November 5th, 2013 at 10:31 am
His misses heavily outweigh the hits. Joe you can only name 3. Haha. Stokes is going to be a stud gm. Don’t block his potential promotion as our new gm by keeping this clown. Remember he hired schiano and staff.
November 5th, 2013 at 10:39 am
“A better coach would have gotten much more out of the players that Dominick has stocked the team”
And who’s fault would that be? Is there some sort of deep space vacuum between the coach and GM’s offices at OBP? Why aren’t they communicating? Why is Dom bringing in guy’s that don’t fit?
This issue can’t be solely on Schiano. It takes two. Dominick just can’t be signing guys, then just whistling down the hallway, thinking his work is done.
They are both on the hook. If Dominick doesn’t like that Schiano is axing the guys that are brought in, then why doesn’t he do something about it?
To put it in Parcell’s speak: It’s like he is shopping for a totally different meal, then the one Schiano is cooking. Why aren’t they focused on the same meal? The fault is on BOTH GM and COACH.
Once again, Dominick has been completely neutered by the ownership, or he is scared of Schiano. They are supposed to be on the same page.
Either way, it’s not what makes up a winning franchise.
November 5th, 2013 at 10:39 am
God, I hope not.
November 5th, 2013 at 10:41 am
I think Dom is a good GM. Not great, not terrible. Schiano has got to go though…
November 5th, 2013 at 10:48 am
“This same angry lot wants Dominik gone tomorrow, for no good logical reason.”
I think you have it backwards Joe. Firing Dom is the logical decision given the ammo which has been beat to death on these boards. Record, coaching decision, free agent decision, drafts. You could make the argument as far as player decisions they are ok at best. An ok player record with a terrible losing record only leads to a logical conclusion that we can improve.
I am starting to think you are writing these dom spots to get us fired up. You can’t really believe that their is no reason for him to be replaced. It’s not a sure thing and some good things have happend for him lately for sure but you are acting like the fire dom crowd are a bunch of lunatics. Come on man.
Stop making empty, you guys are crazy statements and make your case. The case is made constantly on these boards against your opinion. I have yet to see an argument from you to sway me.
November 5th, 2013 at 10:50 am
ODB – I’m pretty sure we’ve seen that what you described is exactly Schiano’s MO. No, he is not listening to anything Dominick or anyone else tells him. Yes, there is a huge gap between the coach and GM because the coach doesn’t want to hear anything the GM has to say about personnel other than whether or not they went to school at Rutgers.
November 5th, 2013 at 11:00 am
Dominik, does he stay or does he go?
How he drafts and signs FA is the determinate factor. So, being curious, I tried to objectively evaluate his past draft choices – you are welcome to try to do the same. But if you if you don’t want to be open minded and just want to simply hate on Dom, please don’t bother.
Obviously, everyone is going to have a different opinion. But I tried to take into account where the player was drafted, not just what round, but how high or low in that round. Other considerations: is the player a starter, and how many games could he have started vs how many he did start; 6 & 7th Rd picks that were a bust had less of an impact on the “overall” grade for that year; a team should be able to get at least two starters out of a draft, 3 eventually would be really good; I tried to stay away from “+ and –“, as that is just indecisive – sometimes I just couldn’t help it.
Rd: 2009 Draft: Grade
1 (17)- Josh Freeman QB, started 60 games, almost… 58%, 78 rating C
3 (81)- Roy Miller DT, played 62 games, started 34, 94 tckls, 3 sacks B
4 (117)- Kyle Moore DE played in 15 games, started 7 D
5 (155)- Xavier Fulton OT Bust F
7 (217)- EJ Biggers CB, played 45 games, started 24, 145 tackles B
7 (233)- Stroughter WR, played 33 games, started 4, 60 recs, 639yds B
Overall C-
Rd: 2010 Draft:
1 (3) – DT Gerald McCoy, Pro Bowler, plyd/strtd 42 gms, 83 tacs, 11 sacs A
2 (35) – DT Brian Price, injuries… F
3 (39) – WR Arrelious Benn, ‘Benn Arnd’, plyd 27/strtd 24, 59rec, 862yds, D
3 (67) – CB Myron Lewis, Bust, played 28/started 1, F
4 (101) – WR Mike Williams, what a steal in the 4th rd no less A++
6 (172) – P Brent Bowden, Who? D
7 (210) – S Cody Grimm, played 23 gms, started 12, 73 tackles B
7 (217) – LB Dekoda Watson, played 53 gms, started 3, 80 tackles, A
7 (253) – DE Erik Lorig, FB, played 47 gms, started 19, 169 yds, 12 rec A
(Bucsnation in Feb ’13 ranked our draft 10th in the NFL) Overall B
Rd: 2011 Draft:
1 (20) Adrian Clayborn DE, played/started 26 gms, injuries, incomplete C
2 (51) DaQuan Bowers DE, played 33 gms, 8 starts, injuries, incomplete D
3 (84) Mason Foster LB, played 39, 36 starts, 176 tac, 3 int, 2 FF, B
4 (116) Luke Stocker TE, played 32, 22 starts, 257 yds, 1 TD C
5 (151) Ahmad Black FS, played 24, 3 starts, 41 tac C
6 (187) Allen Bradford RB, played 1 game, cut F
7 (222) Anthony Gaitor CB, played 12 gms, 2 starts, 12 tac C
7 (238) Daniel Hardy TE, Who? F
Bowers/Clayborn are killing this draft Overall C
Rd: 2012 Draft:
1 (7) Mark Barron, S, played&started 23 gms, 132 tac, 2 int, incomplete B+
1 (31) Doug Martin RB, played&started 22 gms, 1910 yds, 12 TD, STUD A
2 (58) Lavonte David LB, played&started 23 gms, 199 tac, 7 sac, STUD A
5 (140) Najee Goode LB, played 3 gms,cut F
6 (174) Keith Tandy CB, played 16 gms, 14 tac, incomplete C
7 (212) Michael Smith, RB, incomplete inc
7 (233) Drake Dunsmore TE, incomplete inc
Might be the best draft in Bucs history overall A
The most interesting thing to me in doing this exercise was I always thought of Dom’s first two drafts as bombs. Really, 2010 was not bad. But 2011 is not looking so good. It is still too early to tell. Maybe Bowers/Clayborn develop over this offseason and turn into studs next year (not sure Bowers has the drive to do that).
Overall ’09 to ’13 (a little weight given to the ’13 draft) B
I know I will catch crap for this, but just be fair. I personally would lean towards Dom returning. We could so MUCH worse
November 5th, 2013 at 11:03 am
Well Joe he has made a lot of mistakes on both draft and FA areas. In his first year he signed Clayton, traded a 2rd pick for Winslow, signed Ward giving his rookie HC great veteran leadership. We could’ve used the 2d to draft LeSean McCoy and we did needed a back up or even a HB all together due to Cadillac bad knees. Freeman even though it didn’t pan out was the right pick 2009 was a horrible draft class for QB only Stafford become good.
Year 2 in the draft we made a good 1st pick with McCoy then Dominik got drunk and started picking out of a hat. After sobering up he made up for his mistakes and made some more solid picks. FA was a whole another story. Rah wanted Peppers but didn’t wanted step on his boss shoes they were plenty of other DT to bring in and help McCoy develop as well as other quality defensive players but Dominik was on vacation.
Year 3 was a disaster. The jury on that draft still out so I don’t have any complaints yet but he could address other positions, regardless he refused to sign Rudd even when Rah wanted him primarily as a leader, but Dominik preferred Winslow, Talib, and Blount were better fit for the leadership role… We passed on Clabo for Trueblood, again some more quality DT, and DB’s available but we sign no one worth a dime… As if he wanted Rah to fail (it wasn’t like he hired the guy).
Then he waits forever to fire Rah (maybe was the Glazers), fail to sign a good HC then reach out to a glorified high school coach to run his team… That’s why there’s reason to fire him, but if he stays it’s ok with me as long as the HC and all of his circus go. Hire an NFL HC and allow him to hire his staff…
November 5th, 2013 at 11:04 am
“Yes, there is a huge gap between the coach and GM because the coach doesn’t want to hear anything the GM has to say about personnel other than whether or not they went to school at Rutgers”
Would you (the GM) rather have some sort of continuity on the team, even with players you (the GM) don’t care for, but the coach likes?
Or would you rather have, week after week, playing guys off the street because you are so stubborn, that you won’t shop for what the menu clearly asks for (whatever that is), so they keep getting cut?
And, either way, are you doing what’s best for the entire team? I would say, no.
The GM’s job is more than just signing players. He is supposed to be working in conjunction with the coach. And, if he has no authority of Schiano, what does that tell you? A GM, with nearly 20 years of pro personnel experience, has no personnel authority over a guy with zero?
And, to everyone who says, “Sure, Dominick is not great, but, he’s not terrible either.”
Is that the best TB can do? A guy who is mediocre? Why not make a clean sweep? Why not expect the best? If you accept mediocrity, guess what you will get?
November 5th, 2013 at 11:04 am
No to mention he traded Talib for peanuts cause the great leader didn’t know how to get to him, and signed Wright…
November 5th, 2013 at 11:07 am
Dominik, does he stay or does he go?
How he drafts and signs FA is the determinate factor. So, being curious, I tried to objectively evaluate his past draft choices – you are welcome to try to do the same. But if you if you don’t want to be open minded and just want to simply hate on Dom, please don’t bother.
Obviously, everyone is going to have a different opinion. But I tried to take into account where the player was drafted, not just what round, but how high or low in that round. Other considerations: is the player a starter, and how many games could he have started vs how many he did start; 6 & 7th Rd picks that were a bust had less of an impact on the “overall” grade for that year; a team should be able to get at least two starters out of a draft, 3 eventually would be really good; I tried to stay away from “+ and –“, as that is just indecisive – sometimes I just couldn’t help it.
Rd: 2009 Draft: Grade
1 (17)- Josh Freeman QB, started 60 games, almost… 58%, 78 rating C
3 (81)- Roy Miller DT, played 62 games, started 34, 94 tckls, 3 sacks B
4 (117)- Kyle Moore DE played in 15 games, started 7 D
5 (155)- Xavier Fulton OT Bust F
7 (217)- EJ Biggers CB, played 45 games, started 24, 145 tackles B
7 (233)- Stroughter WR, played 33 games, started 4, 60 recs, 639yds B
Overall C-
Rd: 2010 Draft:
1 (3) – DT Gerald McCoy, Pro Bowler, plyd/strtd 42 gms, 83 tacs, 11 sacs A
2 (35) – DT Brian Price, injuries… F
3 (39) – WR Arrelious Benn, ‘Benn Arnd’, plyd 27/strtd 24, 59rec, 862yds, D
3 (67) – CB Myron Lewis, Bust, played 28/started 1, F
4 (101) – WR Mike Williams, what a steal in the 4th rd no less A++
6 (172) – P Brent Bowden, Who? D
7 (210) – S Cody Grimm, played 23 gms, started 12, 73 tackles B
7 (217) – LB Dekoda Watson, played 53 gms, started 3, 80 tackles, A
7 (253) – DE Erik Lorig, FB, played 47 gms, started 19, 169 yds, 12 rec A
(Bucsnation in Feb ’13 ranked our draft 10th in the NFL) Overall B
Rd: 2011 Draft:
1 (20) Adrian Clayborn DE, played/started 26 gms, injuries, incomplete C
2 (51) DaQuan Bowers DE, played 33 gms, 8 starts, injuries, incomplete D
3 (84) Mason Foster LB, played 39, 36 starts, 176 tac, 3 int, 2 FF, B
4 (116) Luke Stocker TE, played 32, 22 starts, 257 yds, 1 TD C
5 (151) Ahmad Black FS, played 24, 3 starts, 41 tac C
6 (187) Allen Bradford RB, played 1 game, cut F
7 (222) Anthony Gaitor CB, played 12 gms, 2 starts, 12 tac C
7 (238) Daniel Hardy TE, Who? F
Bowers/Clayborn are killing this draft Overall C
Rd: 2012 Draft:
1 (7) Mark Barron, S, played&started 23 gms, 132 tac, 2 int, incomplete B+
1 (31) Doug Martin RB, played&started 22 gms, 1910 yds, 12 TD, STUD A
2 (58) Lavonte David LB, played&started 23 gms, 199 tac, 7 sac, STUD A
5 (140) Najee Goode LB, played 3 gms,cut F
6 (174) Keith Tandy CB, played 16 gms, 14 tac, incomplete C
7 (212) Michael Smith, RB, incomplete inc
7 (233) Drake Dunsmore TE, incomplete inc
Might be the best draft in Bucs history overall A
The most interesting thing to me in doing this exercise was I always thought of Dom’s first two drafts as bombs. Really, 2010 was not bad. But 2011 is not looking so good. It is still too early to tell. Maybe Bowers/Clayborn develop over this offseason and turn into studs next year (not sure Bowers has the drive to do that).
Overall ’09 to ’13 (a little weight given to the ’13 draft) B
Just be fair… Not to me, but to the aspect of how this is judged. This is only about his draft picks – FA is a separate subject
November 5th, 2013 at 11:10 am
what about the pop-star letting the Jfro-6pak problem fester from the year before. He knew that there were major issues, yet the pop-star just thought the problem would resolve itself???
November 5th, 2013 at 11:11 am
Dominik, does he stay or does he go?
How he drafts and signs FA is the determinate factor. So, being curious, I tried to objectively evaluate his past draft choices – you are welcome to try to do the same. But if you if you don’t want to be open minded and just want to simply hate on Dom, please don’t bother.
Obviously, everyone is going to have a different opinion. But I tried to take into account where the player was drafted, not just what round, but how high or low in that round. Other considerations: is the player a starter, and how many games could he have started vs how many he did start; 6 & 7th Rd picks that were a bust had less of an impact on the “overall” grade for that year; a team should be able to get at least two starters out of a draft, 3 eventually would be really good; I tried to stay away from “+ and –“, as that is just indecisive – sometimes I just couldn’t help it.
Rd: 2009 Draft: Grade
1 (17)- Josh Freeman QB, started 60 games, almost… 58%, 78 rating C
3 (81)- Roy Miller DT, played 62 games, started 34, 94 tckls, 3 sacks B
4 (117)- Kyle Moore DE played in 15 games, started 7 D
5 (155)- Xavier Fulton OT Bust F
7 (217)- EJ Biggers CB, played 45 games, started 24, 145 tackles B
7 (233)- Stroughter WR, played 33 games, started 4, 60 recs, 639yds B
Overall C-
November 5th, 2013 at 11:12 am
Rd: 2012 Draft:
1 (7) Mark Barron, S, played&started 23 gms, 132 tac, 2 int, incomplete B+
1 (31) Doug Martin RB, played&started 22 gms, 1910 yds, 12 TD, STUD A
2 (58) Lavonte David LB, played&started 23 gms, 199 tac, 7 sac, STUD A
5 (140) Najee Goode LB, played 3 gms,cut F
6 (174) Keith Tandy CB, played 16 gms, 14 tac, incomplete C
7 (212) Michael Smith, RB, incomplete inc
7 (233) Drake Dunsmore TE, incomplete inc
Might be the best draft in Bucs history overall A
The most interesting thing to me in doing this exercise was I always thought of Dom’s first two drafts as bombs. Really, 2010 was not bad. But 2011 is not looking so good. It is still too early to tell. Maybe Bowers/Clayborn develop over this offseason and turn into studs next year (not sure Bowers has the drive to do that).
Overall ’09 to ’13 (a little weight given to the ’13 draft) B
I think Dom has done pretty well, the “B” would be higher if you take out ’09. Comments are of course welcome, just be fair
November 5th, 2013 at 11:13 am
Dominiki also hired two of the three worst coaches in franchise history, a massive black mark against him. I want him nowhere near another chance to hire a coach, potentially the most important coaching hire in team history. Give him the McKay treatment if they like him and bump him to VP or whatever, but do not let him choose another (likely) failure.
November 5th, 2013 at 11:14 am
it did not let me submit ’10 and ’11, here we go
Rd: 2010 Draft:
1 (3) – DT Gerald McCoy, Pro Bowler, plyd/strtd 42 gms, 83 tacs, 11 sacs A
2 (35) – DT Brian Price, injuries… F
3 (39) – WR Arrelious Benn, ‘Benn Arnd’, plyd 27/strtd 24, 59rec, 862yds, D
3 (67) – CB Myron Lewis, Bust, played 28/started 1, F
4 (101) – WR Mike Williams, what a steal in the 4th rd no less A++
6 (172) – P Brent Bowden, Who? D
7 (210) – S Cody Grimm, played 23 gms, started 12, 73 tackles B
7 (217) – LB Dekoda Watson, played 53 gms, started 3, 80 tackles, A
7 (253) – DE Erik Lorig, FB, played 47 gms, started 19, 169 yds, 12 rec A
(Bucsnation in Feb ’13 ranked our draft 10th in the NFL) Overall B
Rd: 2011 Draft:
1 (20) Adrian Clayborn DE, played/started 26 gms, injuries, incomplete C
2 (51) DaQuan Bowers DE, played 33 gms, 8 starts, injuries, incomplete D
3 (84) Mason Foster LB, played 39, 36 starts, 176 tac, 3 int, 2 FF, B
4 (116) Luke Stocker TE, played 32, 22 starts, 257 yds, 1 TD C
5 (151) Ahmad Black FS, played 24, 3 starts, 41 tac C
6 (187) Allen Bradford RB, played 1 game, cut F
7 (222) Anthony Gaitor CB, played 12 gms, 2 starts, 12 tac C
7 (238) Daniel Hardy TE, Who? F
Bowers/Clayborn are killing this draft Overall C
November 5th, 2013 at 11:15 am
Joe’s “too long” take prevention did not let me submit ’10 and’11, so here goes…
Rd: 2010 Draft:
1 (3) – DT Gerald McCoy, Pro Bowler, plyd/strtd 42 gms, 83 tacs, 11 sacs A
2 (35) – DT Brian Price, injuries… F
3 (39) – WR Arrelious Benn, ‘Benn Arnd’, plyd 27/strtd 24, 59rec, 862yds, D
3 (67) – CB Myron Lewis, Bust, played 28/started 1, F
4 (101) – WR Mike Williams, what a steal in the 4th rd no less A++
6 (172) – P Brent Bowden, Who? D
7 (210) – S Cody Grimm, played 23 gms, started 12, 73 tackles B
7 (217) – LB Dekoda Watson, played 53 gms, started 3, 80 tackles, A
7 (253) – DE Erik Lorig, FB, played 47 gms, started 19, 169 yds, 12 rec A
(Bucsnation in Feb ’13 ranked our draft 10th in the NFL) Overall B
November 5th, 2013 at 11:17 am
Rd: 2011 Draft:
1 (20) Adrian Clayborn DE, played/started 26 gms, injuries, incomplete C
2 (51) DaQuan Bowers DE, played 33 gms, 8 starts, injuries, incomplete D
3 (84) Mason Foster LB, played 39, 36 starts, 176 tac, 3 int, 2 FF, B
4 (116) Luke Stocker TE, played 32, 22 starts, 257 yds, 1 TD C
5 (151) Ahmad Black FS, played 24, 3 starts, 41 tac C
6 (187) Allen Bradford RB, played 1 game, cut F
7 (222) Anthony Gaitor CB, played 12 gms, 2 starts, 12 tac C
7 (238) Daniel Hardy TE, Who? F
Bowers/Clayborn are killing this draft Overall C
November 5th, 2013 at 11:20 am
And finally….
Rd: 2011 Draft:
1 (20) Adrian Clayborn DE, played/started 26 gms, injuries, incomplete C
2 (51) DaQuan Bowers DE, played 33 gms, 8 starts, injuries, incomplete D
3 (84) Mason Foster LB, played 39, 36 starts, 176 tac, 3 int, 2 FF, B
4 (116) Luke Stocker TE, played 32, 22 starts, 257 yds, 1 TD C
5 (151) Ahmad Black FS, played 24, 3 starts, 41 tac C
6 (187) Allen Bradford RB, played 1 game, cut F
7 (222) Anthony Gaitor CB, played 12 gms, 2 starts, 12 tac C
7 (238) Daniel Hardy TE, Who? F
Bowers/Clayborn are killing this draft Overall C
Sorry for being out of order, its Joe’s fault, lol
November 5th, 2013 at 11:24 am
In an attempt to keep both the masses(me included) and The Joes happy ( who may or may not receive a stipend from Dom for giving him The Rockstar moniker ), I suggest the new regime honor his contract ( has to be paid out anyways ) and give him a new title of Vice President of Payroll and Disease Control. Now…if there was a way he could advise the other NFC South teams on future 2nd round picks…that would be above and beyond.
November 5th, 2013 at 11:26 am
opps…
November 5th, 2013 at 11:26 am
Well its official. 19 different posters want Dominik fired, there you have it Joe.
November 5th, 2013 at 11:27 am
Joe, don’t play stupid with us. Dominick has had numerous misses and failed free agency signings.
The whole 2009 draft is a bust, which the drafting of an inferior quarterback that we wasted 5 years with.
Benn, Price, and Lewis were misses (2nd and 3rd rounders- high picks). Unacceptable to miss on that many.
Clayborn is playing like crap, Bowers has been a waste of a roster spot ever since he arrived, any others I haven’t mentioned?
Yeah okay…..he’s gotten McCoy, Williams, David and Martin. But every GM has their good ones. Matt Millen drafted Calvin Johnson!
November 5th, 2013 at 11:39 am
Please watch the following Videos!!!
Bruce Allen Last Press Conference
http://www.buccaneers.com/multimedia/videos/Bruce-Allen-Press-Conference-1909/1AF6971A-1F13-410A-BCF8-C97B227F3740
Black Wednesday (The day we released –The Great Derrick Brooks-)
http://www.buccaneers.com/multimedia/videos/DominikMorris-Press-Conference-22508/E4761FA5-C453-46F1-9FC6-911ED82F2BBD
November 5th, 2013 at 11:47 am
Joe’s objective is to get people talking aka “traffic.” Taking a devil’s advocate position that isn’t entirely unreasonable (even if fairly ignorant) is one way to achieve this goal.
That said, sticking up for a GM who just sold out by trading a top 15 pick (Sheldon Richardson isn’t too shabby ya know?) for the priviledge to give a (currently: zone) corner elite quarterback money while going 0-8 in the process. Priceless.
November 5th, 2013 at 11:50 am
Well, a different Patrick voiced his opinion Joe so make that 20 people now that want Dominik fired.
November 5th, 2013 at 11:54 am
@Patrick – How in the world was he supposed to know when he drafted them that Price was going to have a catastrpohic injury that he still almost played through at a decent level or that Benn would have injury after injury that kept him on the sideline?
November 5th, 2013 at 12:01 pm
Dom should have gone with the “dream”.
I will not renew my season tickets if he stays!
November 5th, 2013 at 12:14 pm
Harry,
Thanks for the generous amount of words in your post, but I stopped reading as soon as you gave Kyle Moore a “D”?
Dude has ZERO SACKS IN HIS CAREER. “F”, C’mon Harry!. 🙂
November 5th, 2013 at 12:18 pm
People need to stop making excuses, Dominick is not making our team any better.
If Schiano is ousted, Dom should be right along with him.
The excuses are gone.
Again, Dominick needs 1 victory for his 25th as Buc’s GM, and he needs 2 more losses to reach “50” losses as our GM.
What is up, Joe, are you serious?
If the Dom led Buc’s lose their next two games, then The Great Miguel Cabrera will have a better lifetime MLB batting average, than Dom has an NFL winning percentage.
When someone can hit major league pitching with more regularity, than an NFL GM can “win”, there is a PROBLEM.
DOM IS DONESKI!
November 5th, 2013 at 12:19 pm
Pretty Generous with some of the grades Harry….like the effort though. You totally lost me at C for STOCKER. He cost us two 4th rounders and has been invisible his entire career.
November 5th, 2013 at 12:19 pm
Harry,
Luke Stocker cost us 2 4th round picks, and he is given a grade of “C”.
Dominick himself said Stocker “has a second round grade”…
B-U-S-T.
November 5th, 2013 at 12:20 pm
Skelly!
Yes! Jinx! You owe me a NEW GM!
November 5th, 2013 at 12:25 pm
Lets compare the most complained (rightfully) draft under Dom with the best of the best – Ravens’ Ozzie Newsome. After all, don’t we want the Bucs to have a GM like Ozzie?
Ozzie Newsome, 2009 draft
1st Rd – Michael Oher, OT: drafted for LT, starting RT, considered a disappointment
2nd Rd – Paul Kruger, OLB: No longer on team, bust
3rd Rd – Lardarius Webb, CB: starter, some consider the best CB of ’09 draft
5th Rd – Jason Phillips, LB: No longer on team, bust
5th Rd – Davon Drew, TE: No longer on team, bust
5th Rd – Cedric Peerman, RB – No longer on team, bust
So there you have it, Rock Star Newsome has his failures too. Beat out our Rock Star, as he has 2 remaining players from ’09, but not by much and Newsome is considered the best in the business. It seems everyone has his ups and downs.
November 5th, 2013 at 12:28 pm
Only the owners know what’s really going on. What part of hiring Schiano did they have? They at least OK’d it and maybe picked him from a list of candidates supplied by Dominik. Drafts have been decent, money spending has been as ordered by the owners, and pretty good compared to most franchises. Who’s out there better at GM? I have no idea, but he’s young and smart in general. He signs a lot of big name FA’s which is good recruiting for a small, losing franchise like us. Think about that, most teams don’t get a single big name FA per year and we get a couple every time.
As far as drafts go, some hits and some misses. Last year appears excellent! The year before too. Look at the big picture around the league and there are a lot worse out there. DE’s are busts, that hurts, but it is a tough position to hit on, they are always picked toooo early by every team, because of desperation. As far as resigning his draft picks, most are still on first deal, duh. In reality, all 4th-7th rounders are disposable, everyone in the league knows you just hope to get a few games/years out of them and special teams. Anything else is a plus.
November 5th, 2013 at 12:30 pm
@SKelly & SteveK:
Fair criticism on Stoker, I don’t know why I gave him such a high grade. should be a D. Moore was harder, he was a 4th rd pick who played some, so I did not feel an F was fair. And as I said, I was trying not to use “- & +”‘s
November 5th, 2013 at 12:47 pm
“Rock Star Newsome”
107-77 .582 %
1 SB as GM, and another that he helped build.
7 playoff appearance.
Hired Harbaugh
or
The Teflon Dom
24-48 .333%
Zero playoff appearances
Hired Schiano
November 5th, 2013 at 12:49 pm
How about 2010 Baltimore draft class
Sergio Kindle – BUST
Terrance Cody – “D” never had a sack in career, limited player
Ed Dickson – “C” signed Dallas Clark, only produced one season
Dennis Pitta – Injured again (2nd time four years) “C+”
David Reed – 5 career catches BUST
Arthur Jones – “B+” starter that’s producing past two seasons
Ramon Harewood – BUST
Funny thing, I’d love to have Ozzie but starting to wonder why…
November 5th, 2013 at 12:55 pm
Harry bro. You have to stop. Oher has started 72 straight games since being drafted for the Ravens.
KRUGER A BUST: he had 9 sacks last year not including 4.5 in the playoffs and two in the super bowl. Was basically the defensive MVP against SF. He is off the team becuase they are in cap hell and couldnt afford to keep him. Please stop bro. You’ve made some good points but now your losing your mind.
November 5th, 2013 at 1:01 pm
Skelly – What if you had a guy you claimed off waivers he had over 9 sacks and then left in free agency, do you get credit for having him? Bennett or Kruger? Bennett is still producing at a much higher rate than Kruger.
November 5th, 2013 at 1:05 pm
Harry said about the 2012 draft, “Might be the best draft in Bucs history overall A”
Then he asked for fair comments.
If you think this draft was better than Sam Wyche’s where he got a couple Hall of Famers, you should stay away from keyboards. You should put an asterisk next to your name as a warning to all football fans that you have absolutely no credibility and may have some cognitive issues.
Was that fair enough?
Ever notice how an asterisk resembles an azzhole?
November 5th, 2013 at 1:10 pm
If Kruger is a “Bust”, then so is EVERY D-Lineman Dominick has picked.
Kruger’s 9 sacks are as many as Mike Bennett had last year, and he was shown the door.
We have not had a 10 sack guy since Simeon Rice.
Wheres the beef?
November 5th, 2013 at 1:14 pm
@Superfriend
#1 The Ravens had no $ to keep him. The Bucs were under the cap and let him go, and STILL have $.
#2, Did either GM leave the well dry? Baltimore has 27 sacks, and TB has 17 this season. Advantage: Newsome
(Absolutely mind blowing to even have to compare the two GMs)
November 5th, 2013 at 1:31 pm
Ozzie Newsome is the definition of an NFL Rock Star. Dude is a HOF TE, HOF GM.
What an ambassador to the game.
We will be forever trapped in subpar/mediocre land with if Schiano is fired and Dom is retained.
FACT.
November 5th, 2013 at 1:52 pm
Super Friend……What Oil Derrick Said. 100%
With 1 addition, I do give credit for Dom finding Bennett in the first place. Just like he found Penn. I am not a Dom hater. I don’t think he sucks. I just don’t think its inconcievable that we could do better.
November 5th, 2013 at 1:56 pm
@Oil Derrick, I started using the Ozzie comparison bc I think we should hold Dom to the highest standard – that is what we want right? And personally, I don’t think he does that badly. My point with using Ozzie is that some of his picks were busts too. People in here love to only point out Dom’s mistakes, and he has made some good ones. But he has also done very well with some picks and definately some FA signings. Lets look at the whole picture instead of just the errors
November 5th, 2013 at 2:12 pm
41 tackles, 9 sacks, & 3 forced fumble leaves allowed to leave in free agency, I don’t dislike Dom for everything he’s done, but it’s most certainly alarming when you’re GM allows those numbers to leave without any REAL contingecy plan in place, that’s bad business. Dom’s done some really good things as far as acquiring young talent on this team goes, but on the flip-side there are most certainly enough blemishes on his resume to question his job security with justifiable logic.
November 5th, 2013 at 2:17 pm
@Harry
I agree with looking at the best. But, it’s a results based business. Look at the bottom line.
One guy has produced consistently for well over a decade, including a SB. The other has very little to show for going on 5 seasons. Seriously, what has Dominick achieved? He can’t even say he brought in a franchise QB. No playoffs appearances. Nothing. Zip.
It’s not even a close comparison. The absolute best that can be said about him is that he is mediocre.
My question is why keep him? Do you really think with all the competition out there, that there isn’t a better candidate out there? There are talented assistants at long standing successful franchises, just waiting to get a shot. And besides GM candidates, what truly great coaching candidate wants to hitch his wagon to Dominick?
Also, is there a bottom line? If so, what is it? No playoffs after 6 seasons? 8 seasons? 10 seasons? When does it end? Never?? If not now, why not?
And finally, I challenge anyone to name a working GM with a lower win %.
November 5th, 2013 at 2:54 pm
ODB, Skelly, fellow realists,
I agree with what you guys say. Dominick needs to go, should the HC be fired.
24-48 is not good enough, it just isn’t..
Joe tells us that “GMs are typically given 2 head coaching hires….Dominick did not hire Morris”.
However, Schiano may have to bite the bullet while never getting to bring in “his guy” at QB. Dom traded up to snag the BUST, Freeman, and it has cost us dearly.
The reason we have stunk since 2010—–> Freeman. Who hired Freeman, stuck with him, and proclaimed that “It is all about 5″… We lost the 2013 season because Dom didn’t have the stones or the foresight to CUT BAIT with Freeman before the season.
Cap’n Tim even proclaims getting rid of Dom.
How can Schiano be the sole problem? He has been here less than 2 years, but he is the sole reason.
24-48, GOODBYE DOOMINICK.
November 5th, 2013 at 3:05 pm
To: pretty much everyone on this thread.
Imagine if we weren’t all illogical dom hating panic artists. We might actually make some good points on these threads.
November 5th, 2013 at 3:11 pm
Oil Derrick Brooks,
Dom does not have the worst record of any employed GM, his record in fact, at .333 is vastly better than the worst.
David Caldwell – Jaguars -0.000% – winless.
November 5th, 2013 at 3:16 pm
ODB,
Doug Whaley – Bills – .333 – not worse, but exactly the same as Dominik
November 5th, 2013 at 3:17 pm
With two more losses, in his next two games, Dominick’s winning percentage as NFL GM will be LESS THAN Miguel Cabrera’s lifetime batting average.
LOL @ BucsFanFover, Touche on Caldwell…..
November 5th, 2013 at 3:18 pm
BucsFanForever,
HOW ABOUT LIFETIME WINNING PERCENTAGE FOR NFL GM’s WITH MORE THAN 1 YEAR OF SERVICE (failure in our case)?
November 5th, 2013 at 3:18 pm
@BFF
Thanks man!!
So, there you have it, Joe. One guy has a worse GM record than Dominick, in only his first year on the job!!
Maybe by year 10, the Teflon Dom can scratch back up to .500 football. We can dream, right? .500 is championship football, right?
November 5th, 2013 at 3:22 pm
We have been rebuilding for 6 years, no playofffs.
We won’t make it back to the playoffs, if the HC is fired and our current GM is retained.
How does all the math possibly add up to Dominick being a “good GM”?
18m in cap space, no depth, 0-8…. When is enough, enough?
November 5th, 2013 at 3:24 pm
ODB,
Regime McKinsey – Raiders 7-16 -.304 – worse than Dom
November 5th, 2013 at 3:27 pm
I don’t get how a General Manager escapes his record.
That’s like saying a CEO isn’t responsible for profits.
All the Dom supporters look at the “good players’ drafted. But that does not achieve wins when you have other players the other team repeatedly exploits to defeat Dom’s teams. And when you do not have enough offensive weapons to produce a sophisticated passing game that is essential in this league!
An NFL team is not a scattering of draft choices, but a team. A GM is judged by how well that team plays, in wins and losses. Not a few individual players.
On that measure nobody can dispute Dominik is an utter failure.
November 5th, 2013 at 3:30 pm
Eric,
IDK why you could possibly think that Dominick is going to be held accountable for this mess?
LOL, the common denominator: We sucked with Raheem, we suck with Schiano. Dom was GM under both.
24-48 is “god awful” as Fran Tarkenton would say.
November 5th, 2013 at 3:34 pm
But that is it.
1 second year manager with a worse record
1 first year manager with a worse record
And 1 first year manager with an equal record
It is weird, it seems the bucs are just awful in odd number seasons and competitive in even number seasons.
2009 3-13
2010 10-6
2011 4-12
2012 7-9
2013 0-8(16)
If Dom(and/or Schiano) somehow makes it to next season, the rising tide will lift his ship again.
November 5th, 2013 at 3:34 pm
So, if I’m keeping track, it’s:
Caldwell 0% (1st year)
McKenzie .292% (2nd year)
Whaley .333% (1st year)
Teflon Dom .333% (5th year)
November 5th, 2013 at 3:59 pm
that is a pretty ugly group. Don’t know about you guys, but I am sick and tired of being in the Jacksonville, Oakland, Buffalo discussion. Those are jokes of franchises over the last few years. The fact that this our peer group should lead any person to want to blow the hole thing up, including the glazers cause whatever we’ve been doing sure aint workin.
November 5th, 2013 at 4:22 pm
If he had anything to do with hiring Schiano or Raheem he needs to go. His drafting of useless defensive lineman with multiple high draft pics is enough to send him on his way. Our D line is a joke and cant get to a quarterback through a wet paper bag and he wasted so many draft picks on D end I want to throw up.
November 5th, 2013 at 4:48 pm
So, Dominik is tied for the 29th best record of all active NFL general managers
November 5th, 2013 at 5:22 pm
Sorry Joe, trying to keep track so a total of 24 different posters out of the 4.3 million people who live around here want Dominik fired! The people have spoken!
November 5th, 2013 at 6:50 pm
Be careful Joe… You are dangerously close to losing credibility….
November 5th, 2013 at 6:57 pm
Dom needs to go, but I’m wondering ….. when did Wah change his handle to “Woody”?
November 5th, 2013 at 8:01 pm
Where to start:
2009: FA and Draft: MASSIVE F
2010: Mike Williams was a 4th round steal. McCoy has yet to live up to the #3 overall pick. Got Dekota Watson and Eric Lorig who are late round contributors. Took a punter over Greg Hardy LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
2011: Claybron and Bowers have been flops. Foster has been a very good pick. FA splashes: P Koenen, G Davin Joseph, T Jeremy Trueblood, LB Quincy Black: ALL OVERPAID.
2012: Martin and David: Studs. Barron is inconsistent and cannot cover for squat. Misses a lot of assignments. That one is stilll TBD but people want to say hes a stud already. No. He has games like the one against seattle occassionally, then go on a streak of getting picked on.
FA flops: Nicks, Wright, Clayton, Ward. Failure to evaluate the strengths of drafts. 2010: I dont care how you say “well you can say that now”. That’s how you judge: We took a DT in Price. Coulda had Atkins. Took WR Benn. Coulda had Tate. Took Myron Lewis. Coulda had Verner. Took a P in 6th round coulda taken a flier on Hardy.
IT’s poor decision making skills. Heck ccoulda had Cameron Jordan over Clayborn, who looks a ton better.
November 5th, 2013 at 8:39 pm
Should Schiano be let go as HC, our team looks a whole helluva lot more attractive with the 1 pick, get to pick your franchise player and your GM.
We could have had Gronk and Jimmy Graham before taking: Price, Benn, or MyLew….
Schiano called Bowers a 10 sack guy bc his GM let Mike Bennett walk to save money for the Freeman extension.
Dom traded up to draft Freeman.
Dom is just as accountable, or more so, than Schiano. Schiano has improved our last two draft classes.
Should Dominick’s NFL winning percentage drop lower than Miguel Cabrera’s lifetime batting average, he should be let go with everyone.
Clean house, 0-16, clean sweep.
November 5th, 2013 at 10:19 pm
Its time for him to go, just as it was for Freeman.