Third Down Defense Collapsed
August 17th, 2024
Bucs coach Todd Bowles.
Joe doesn’t see many coaches this down in the dumps after a loss in a worthless preseason game short of a major injury. But man, Bucs coach Todd Bowles looked generally peeved in his postgame presser.
It seemed, the Bucs had things figured out defensively, at least in the secondary. The Bucs appeared deep at both safety and corner. Then tonight, safety Kaevon Merriweather blows a knee — Bowles did not know the extent of Merriweather’s injury and will wait on tests before commenting about it — and in general, the Bucs’ secondary got lit up.
All night, Jags receivers were so wide open, they looked like joggers running along the banks of the St. John’s River.
Bowles fingered the third-down defense as the main culprit.
“Defense, we bust two coverages, one on third-and-17 and one on third-and-16,” Bowles explained. “We gave up one first down and one touchdown [on those plays].
“The young guys have to communicate and they’ve got to play better.”
As for the communication, Bowles said one player would bark out one specific coverage and a teammate would bark out a different protection. So Bowles scolded his secondary backups for not being on the same page, which clearly led to some bad pass defense.
What a difference a week makes. Based on training camp practice and last week’s worthless preseason game at Cincinnati, Joe thought the Bucs secondary was deep.
After tonight, the Bucs secondary may still be deep. That is, deep with bad, undisciplined, sloppy play.
August 17th, 2024 at 11:22 pm
As he should. Same old 3rd and 15 & 3rd and 17, a the opposing team still gets the first down. That is a schematic issue, and needs to be really addressed. Because even with backups in, it’s the same old nonsense.
August 17th, 2024 at 11:25 pm
“What do you think of the Bucs’ defensive execution?”
“I’m in favor of it”
August 17th, 2024 at 11:27 pm
Too me the most disappointing thing was not the touchdowns, it was our esteemed 3rd pick Smith getting totally schooled by Parker Washington all night. I’m now concerned about slot corner.
August 17th, 2024 at 11:27 pm
To me the most disappointing thing was not the touchdowns, it was our esteemed 3rd pick Smith getting totally schooled by Parker Washington all night. I’m now concerned about slot corner.
August 17th, 2024 at 11:30 pm
You can say that again Bucnut
August 18th, 2024 at 12:13 am
He did!
August 18th, 2024 at 12:19 am
I’m not a coach, however, there is some flawed schemes in Todd Bowles defense. Going back to last season they were bad on 3rd and longs.
August 18th, 2024 at 12:27 am
Todd Bowles has run this same terrible, soft zone scheme for years. They constantly get torched season after season, and yet he does nothing to change it. We had 2 CBs making $13M+ and an All-Pro Safety and still had a miserable pass D.
Todd – stop blaming the players and do something to change your awful scheme. Make it less complicated if literally nobody can understand it. Stop playing dudes 20 yards off the LOS on 3rd and 15. Change something.
August 18th, 2024 at 12:27 am
@Mike S
Lmfao! I remember that.
I’m starting to have some concerns about our defense. WTF is going on with our secondary?
I know we’re playing 2nd and 3rd string players but some of these guys WILL be expected to play this season.
Do we have a scheme problem? Starting to sound like our pass rush may be better than we thought and our secondary weaker…..based on very limited info of course.
Hopefully we’ll see a night and day difference when the starters take the field.
August 18th, 2024 at 12:37 am
“Can’t stop the pass or the run. Otherwise, we’re in great shape.”
“We didn’t tackle well today but we made up for it by not blocking.”
August 18th, 2024 at 12:43 am
Confucius Say:
“when coach’s secondary lit up…coach unhappy coach”
August 18th, 2024 at 12:47 am
I had to laugh when that 3rd and 17 TD landed. How do we keep seeing this film? It’s absurd. Just drop everyone into coverage at this point. All 11 guys. Rush no one and dare them to run it. Would probably work better than the always effective Bowles soft zone.
August 18th, 2024 at 1:33 am
Camp Cupcake Strikes Again
August 18th, 2024 at 3:21 am
This is at least a good argument for why preseason is not worthless.
August 18th, 2024 at 3:28 am
TavierThoms looked like he was out of position at the end of the 1st half multiple reps.
August 18th, 2024 at 4:31 am
We lost a preseason game….OH NO’S… lol, so funny
August 18th, 2024 at 6:02 am
Preseason hype will soon be replaced by in-season reality. Rarely do the two match. Whatever weaknesses the defense has will be revealed quickly. Same with offense. Games are not won with hope, but with talent, skill, power, dominance, and grit. I hope the Bucs beat Washington in the opener. What the Bucs are will determine the outcome.
August 18th, 2024 at 6:45 am
Miscommunication among nonstarters is to be expected. Remember, when these guys get on the field in the regular season they will not be making any defensive calls. Also, the vets will put them in the correct position. I’m looking forward to seeing how White runs behind this revamped offense line.
August 18th, 2024 at 6:51 am
Every player Ronde would mention in the secondary he would say he was being cross trained for other positions. Maybe they should learn one spot, before taking on another. This wouldn’t be concerning in preseason, but this was a big problem last year, giving up big plays on third down. Clearly too, Mac Jones was the best QB on the field last night. Made Trask look like a bust, and John Woefull should be selling real estate.
August 18th, 2024 at 7:48 am
Did our secondary last night look as bad as Kenny Pickett looked awesome last preseason? R-E-L-A-X
August 18th, 2024 at 7:50 am
It’s a pre season game.. It doesn’t count right now. Most of these guys will be on the streets next week looking for jobs..Relax
August 18th, 2024 at 7:54 am
Hodad the Hater Says: “Mac Jones was the best QB on the field last night. Made Trask look like a bust.”
A few thoughts.
Trask definitely was not playing with any starters. Jones may have been playing with at least some starters.
Jones has three full seasons of NFL regular season play under him. Trask has zero games.
Trask had a 95.9 passer rating in the game. Very good. Nowhere near “bust” territory. In fact, quite a bit better than Mayfield’s career 88.1 passer rating.
Try harder.
August 18th, 2024 at 8:10 am
GoneGator Says: “We didn’t tackle well today but we made up for it by not blocking.”
lolol
August 18th, 2024 at 8:13 am
J McCosh, Baker’s career passer rating is measured against people playing football that counts.
Try harder
August 18th, 2024 at 8:30 am
Drunk Bucs Fan, Baker’s career passer rating is measured playing with all starters. Which is a good thing, because if Baker had to play with the camp meat Trask and Wolford play with, Baker’s career passer rating would be way lower than his middling 88.1.
Try harder.
August 18th, 2024 at 8:34 am
In fact, Drunk Bucs Fan, imagine if Bowles, for game 1, started Baker with the backups Bowles makes Trask play with in preseason. It would be a disaster and all you Baker Bois from Oklahoma would be crying rivers of tears.
August 18th, 2024 at 8:43 am
Trask was OK…..Wolford was awful.
August 18th, 2024 at 8:44 am
The Bucs starting secondary (with J-White out) was consistently beaten on long balls and red zone work on both scrimmage days, but they couldn’t fix it by Saturday. I’m happy we are scrimmaging against an excellent Miami offense to measure our improvement. I’m starting to be concerned about our defense vs Washington. Trap game.
August 18th, 2024 at 9:03 am
O better score lots of points because this D and it’s coaching staff or subpar
August 18th, 2024 at 9:23 am
J McCosh,
I have no interest in a back and forth with someone who only has make believe stats in games that don’t matter to prove his guy is the best. Many different people have had up close and personal experience evaluating Trask and all came to the same conclusion. Nah.
Congrats on your thread comment victory. It means as much as Kyle Trask’s preseason passer rating.
August 18th, 2024 at 10:44 am
There is a problem with Bowels secondary defense on 3rd and long. He always has the guys let up and keep everything in front of them and it doesn’t work. CBs will be lined up at the sticks and then drop at the snap. This has been an issue since he came to the team. I know this was just a preseason game but the same thing consistently happens during the regular season.
Let these guys learn their position before all this cross training goes on.
August 18th, 2024 at 10:59 am
Yall are having a terribly stupid argument re: Baker playing with backups.
As for the defense giving up huge 3rd down conversions- that sound like they’re in peak mid season form. Bowles loves his soft zone broken coverages.
August 18th, 2024 at 11:10 am
The way I see it is that many of these players will not make the 53 man team or even the practice squad. You have to play them to see what you have. These pre season games can show you a lot.
August 18th, 2024 at 11:22 am
Same old masturmind Todd. Can’t stop a slant. Can’t stop third and long. Can’t play zone defense worth a dog turd.
Jason needs to sit his genius ass down and ‘splain this is on Todd for continuing failure to teach and ensure assignments are known.
Run game looked pretty good again. Glennon is who we thought he was. 7 points.
Bucs suck.
August 18th, 2024 at 11:22 am
Why is coach Bowles upset about this game? It’s only a worthless preseason game.
August 18th, 2024 at 11:31 am
No worries, Plan 9 is firing his retro rockets to reenter from orbit.
August 18th, 2024 at 11:33 am
J McCosh, Maybe if KT2, played better in camp, threw less interceptions when he does get playing time, threw more TDs when he gets in the red zone, converted more 1st downs, when he needs to, the coaches would have made him a starter. He hasn’t shown them anything in all the camps he had been in to even stop them from getting a so called “washed up QB that was let go by every team he played for,” when KT was the only QB under contract Thank God!
If KT2 ever wants to be the legitimate starter he has to FIRST impress the coaches that he can do the job. Then they may actually consider that! To this point he hasn’t done that! So he remains the backup until he’s not.
You can rationalize and make up excuses all day long, until he impresses the coaches, nothing will change!!!
August 18th, 2024 at 11:36 am
Same story. Another broken record. Rinse & Repeat.
August 18th, 2024 at 11:40 am
HC, I think we see Plan 9s replacement emerging. You best send a message. JR33 baby JR33!
August 18th, 2024 at 11:42 am
Toad’s players need to think way too much when some of them aren’t MENSA. This has been the way forever in Bloweszo’s defenseless zone coverages. Now he’s saying “communication.”
Hello, Mike Smith.
Maybe the communication that needs to happen is from Todd to his players. Take apart the failures and ask them all the who and how, get their feedback, tell them the way it was supposed to be and make it clear that they are gone if they can’t understand. Give them all the answers to the test.
But the Bloweszo won’t do that because he’s a genius.
Fork me Larry.
At least the offense is averaging 7 points a game. That’s promising.
August 18th, 2024 at 12:13 pm
Wow, so.e of you posters must be fun at parties.
I’m looking forward to a great season. We have stars and depth at a bunch of positions, and the team seems to all be on the same page. Go Bucs!!
August 18th, 2024 at 12:51 pm
At least the team started slow again, giving up a 3rd and 73 yard TD and punting on the first drive with Mike Glennon Jr awkwardly bumbling at QB. This is a well coached team. If your team just got off the short bus.
August 18th, 2024 at 1:11 pm
Dave Pear … ‘Hello, Mike Smith’.
Sometimes I think that you just can’t help yourself Dave. Many of us remember the Mike Smith years (2016-2018), unfavorably. Actually Smitty started off fairly decent (defense ranked #15 in 2016, allowing ‘only’ 23.1 PPG), then regressed to a #22 ranking in 2017, allowing ‘only’ 23.9 PPG, before finally bottoming out with a #31 ranking in 2018, allowing ‘only’ 29.0 PPG. Fond memories for some I’m sure, but I’m not one of them.
I’m also not one of those who subscribe to the ‘preseason is worthless’ philosophy. HOPEFULLY it does give the starters some ‘warmup’ to get ready for Game 1. HOPEFULLY it lets the coaches sort through the youngsters & the backups to see who’s worth keeping. Bucs had a lot of ‘weak links’ out there last night. Some of them (unfortunately for them) have probably already showed Bowles & company that they don’t have what it takes to perform at an acceptable level in the NFL (and in this defense). In those cases, Welcome to Walmart.
As for me, I expect a LOT better from our starters.
August 18th, 2024 at 2:03 pm
Mike Smith checked out on Dirk, and Dirk was too weak to implement corrective action. Mike Smith’s 2018 pass defense was among the worst in league history. I can’t help it, that’s a fact. He blamed “communication” all the time. What did he do about it? He wrote a book when he should have been coaching up his defense.
The good news, we got BA when all was said and done.
I wonder who Jason will hire to be the next great NFL head coach after he clears out The Toad Bloweszo Show.
So sick of the same old same old, all blabber and no corrective action.
Same. Mistakes. Over. And. Over. And. Over.
August 18th, 2024 at 2:29 pm
Dave Pear … ‘So sick of the same old same old, all blabber and no corrective action. Same. Mistakes. Over. And. Over. And. Over.’
Actually Dave, TB did adjust his defensive strategy & tactics quite a bit, in 2022. And it cost him, big time.
In 2020 our defense ranked #8 in Points Allowed, and #6 in Yards Allowed. Our run defense ranked #1 but our pass defense ranked #21 (both in Yards Allowed).
In 2021 our defense improved to a #5 ranking in Points Allowed, but regressed to a #13 ranking in Yards Allowed. Our run defense ranked #3 but our pass defense stayed at a #21 ranking (both in Yards Allowed).
But look what happened in 2022 when Todd de-emphasized run defense a little to apparently attempt to improve the pass defense. In 2022 our defense fell to a #13 ranking in Points Allowed, but improved to a #9 ranking in Yards Allowed. Our run defense fell to a #15 ranking but our pass defense improved to a #9 ranking (both in Yards Allowed).
So we sacrificed run defense for pass defense in 2022 … and our season record went from 13-4 to 8-9. Obviously there was a lot going on besides just that modification in defensive priorities, but look what Todd did in 2023. Went right back to the ‘Run defense is Job-1’. We improved to #7 overall in Points Allowed, but fell all the way to #23 in Yards Allowed. Our run defense rose a bunch from #15 ranking in 2022 to a #5 ranking in 2023 (Yards Allowed), but our pass defense plummeted from a #9 ranking in 2022 to a #29 ranking in 2023.
Got a hunch Todd’s still searching for that ‘middle ground’. Believe it or not, talent-wise our defense overall is probably a middle-of-the-pack group. We’ve exceeded that year-by-year IMO BECAUSE of Todd Bowles. He & his coaching staff have done a he11uva job IMO getting this defense to produce. Or more specifically … limiting our opponents’ production.
August 18th, 2024 at 2:44 pm
The headline “Third Down Defense Collapsed” is a familiar refrain for Bowels’ coached defense. Along with “Fourth Quarter Defense Collapsed” and “Zone Defense Collapsed.” Although the last one means there was something together about it in the first place for it to have collapsed. Maybe substitute “Sucks Again” for “Collapsed.”
Also, “Will Collapse,” “Always Collapses” and “Sucks Harder Than Perfect Vacuum” could all be substituted.
August 18th, 2024 at 3:01 pm
So…. Is there hope?
Can we (will we) field a defense that continues to be really good against the run but who can also stop all the mid range passes we’re going to see and hold on 3rd down occasionally ?
Sounds like we finally got some pressure but it didn’t help our back-end much ?
Scheme or players, I guess that’s the big question. If it’s scheme is there much hope that Todd can/will adapt to simplify it so players can just play? Or do we just need more to get the starters on the field and give them time to “gel” ?
August 18th, 2024 at 3:12 pm
“J McCosh Says:
August 18th, 2024 at 7:54 am
Trask had a 95.9 passer rating in the game. Very good. Nowhere near “bust” territory. In fact, quite a bit better than Mayfield’s career 88.1 passer rating.”
I’m all for a healthy debate, however……..why are you comparing a single game rating to a career rating?
If you’re going the career route then at least use Trask’s 39.6 career rating to compare Mayfield’s to.
If you’re going to compare single game ratings then shouldn’t we be using last year’s 2nd preseason game ratings to try to keep apples with apples and oranges with oranges?
Mayfield had a 130+ rating that game…….
Stats are great if used objectively and not subjectively. Everyone has an opinion and can pull stats to support their opinion.
The problem is that opinions should be formed after weighing the pros and cons of any given scenario based upon valid, comparable, documentable and irrefutable facts while disregarding all feelings and emotions….
If that is done then a person can validate their opinion…..any deviation from that results solely in fallacious thoughts.
The bottom line is that we, the fans, do not have a sufficient amount of information to make a valid comparison between the two. Trask’s game results are too small of a sample size and we’re not privy to all the info that the coaches have. Until Trask has built a regular season resume with enough activity to actually judge all you’re doing is expressing a preference for one player over another and using cherry picked stats to justify it.
The truth is…..you don’t NEED to justify how you FEEL…you prefer Trask over Mayfield…..other’s feel the same way….that ok. But to throw out stats that don’t relate to each other is disingenuous
.
To borrow a quote…….”Try harder.”
August 18th, 2024 at 4:13 pm
The genius has a plan!
The starters will start slow, be sluggish and suck against Miami. Thus giving the bulk media and Washington Commanders a false sense of security.
Then <>
The Big Surprise is launched. Bucs 38 WFT 2
#SneakyTodd’sBigSurprise
August 18th, 2024 at 5:55 pm
Yes, defense was bad. Worst part is the defense allowed the Jags to dominate the clock. Part of this was offense ineffectiveness but defense has to shut down long possessions. They didn’t do it last year and the familiar pattern is happening this year. On these pages and elsewhere Mayfield gets the blame for lack of production but it is impossible for any QB if they are on the sideline watching the opposing team eat up 8 minutes of possession every quarter.
August 18th, 2024 at 6:57 pm
how many times have i heard “communication” as the issue for the glaringly poor play by the bucs’ secondary. are the schemes that difficult that the players are confused ? are the coaches so inept that they are not adequately teaching them the schematic techniques ? are the schemes themselves situationally flawed when called by the defensive coaches ?
tired of hearing the “it’s only pre-season commentary. as many have voiced, this has been a systemic problem over several years, and there still has been no noticeable solution.
August 18th, 2024 at 9:15 pm
@Gotti-Dog
I used Trask’s 95.9 passer rating IN THE GAME because he was being wrongly criticized by his many haters here for his play IN THE GAME. You don’t get to say a quarterback sucks in a game and then cry when someone points out his very good passer rating in that game. That’s not how it works.
Now, go cry harder.
August 18th, 2024 at 10:35 pm
“J McCosh Says:
August 18th, 2024 at 9:15 pm
@Gotti-Dog
I used Trask’s 95.9 passer rating IN THE GAME because he was being wrongly criticized by his many haters here for his play IN THE GAME. You don’t get to say a quarterback sucks in a game and then cry when someone points out his very good passer rating in that game. That’s not how it works.”
…..and I never judged his performance one way or the other….I pointed out that you compared a single game rating to a career rating…..and that’s not how THAT works regardless of which players you’re comparing. It’s apples to oranges.
Personally, I hope he does well for the sake of the team…
August 18th, 2024 at 10:55 pm
So do I Gotti. But, reality is real. Glennon sucks.
August 18th, 2024 at 11:16 pm
“Dave Pear Says:
August 18th, 2024 at 10:55 pm
So do I Gotti. But, reality is real. Glennon sucks.”
In the immortal words of Doris Day……Que Sera Sera…..until a new hand is dealt you just play the cards you have and sometimes hope your bluff game is strong
August 19th, 2024 at 9:45 am
Doesn’t matter if it is starters, 2nd stringers, rookies, free agents picked up in season or future CFLers this pass defense scheme SUCKS!!!!
Opponents are consistently WIDE OPEN, if it’s consistently happening no matter if it’s the pre season, regular season or playoffs it’s the scheme not the players.
It’s on Bowles to fix it or get out of the way for someone else to do it.