Overlooked Free Agent Is Evidence Of Improved Secondary Depth
August 9th, 2024
Todd Bowles reacts.
Joe is almost scared to type the following. Because the last time Joe made such a bold claim, it proved disastrous.
Circa 2017 or 2018, Joe thought the Bucs had good depth in the secondary. Joe could only base this on viewing training camp.
Joe remembers a regular reader howling in protest how dare Joe type such nonsense as the Bucs corners were horrible. Again, Joe was solely basing this on what plays seen in training camp, as if the reader was trying to tell Joe that interceptions, pass knockdowns and close coverage wasn’t witnessed.
Hell, if what Joe witnesses in training camp is that terrible, perhaps the Bucs should close all practices. (The league wouldn’t like that, though.)
The reader was basing his analysis on… Joe isn’t sure but it wasn’t from training camp.
Well, the reader’s guess was right. What good secondary play Joe saw in training camp proved to be a mirage in the regular season.
With this fresh in Joe’s memory bank, Joe will walk the plank here. Joe believes the Bucs secondary is damn deep — based strictly on watching with Joe’s own two eyes in training camp.
Now deep may not necessarily mean good. Just that a No. 7 corner might be as good as a No. 4 corner.
And given the fact Bucs defenders are going against one of the best receivers groups in the league every day, it gives Joe hope. (Then again, back in 2017 and 2018, those same corners who turned out to be trash were locking down and looking good guarding Mike Evans and Vincent Jackson in practice.)
One guy who has surprised Joe is backup defensive back Tavierre Thomas. It seems the Bucs mainly signed the veteran as a special teams player. But the way Todd Bowles spoke about Thomas yesterday, he may be more than that.
“He’s getting his hands on balls,” Bowles, ever the lover of takeaways, said. “He’s learning three spots: he’s learning strong [safety], he’s learning free [safety], and he’s learning nickel [cornerback].
“He’s been very receptive. We know he’s a very good special teams player. He’s around the ball all the time.”
The best defensive back coming off the bench is Christian Izien, “this Joe” believes. After that, there may be a log jam of three, four… (five?) guys that could make the final-53.
Is this another mirage Joe is witnessing? Bucs shot-callers, including Bowles, don’t think so.
The only way to really know is when the bullets fly in September.
August 9th, 2024 at 3:12 pm
I’ll take it. Can never have too many good DBs.
August 9th, 2024 at 3:25 pm
Your answer lies in the QB 2017-2018! Jamies Winston…..Didn’t he have a 30 interception year? He’d make Pee Wee Herman look good riding his bike through the secondary (RIP)
August 9th, 2024 at 3:31 pm
Tavierre said he left Detroit and hasn’t been back. Smart man!
August 9th, 2024 at 3:39 pm
Joe, your assumptions and analysis is sane and rational, and I agree. Let’s see what this secondary can do. I have a good feeling it will be a much improved unit.
Go Bucs ! ! !
August 9th, 2024 at 3:46 pm
You had me at…”Because the last time Joe made such a bold claim, it proved disastrous.”
I love people confident enough in their own ability to feel no need to gloss over mistakes. Everybody makes them except for “some” posters here who are of course infallible legends in their own minds.
Just looking at it from a wonky societal standpoint it makes sense that the Bucs could luck out at DB. DB’s are virtually the only players on the team who are normal sized humans, save perhaps for kickers and the occasional WR.
How many 6-6 super strong hugely athletic men are their walking the streets?
IE not really that many opportunities in the total universe of available men.
Compare that to 6 – 6-1″ 200 lb guys. They are a dime a dozen. I immediately concede that there are not many who run 4.4 40’s but there are more guys at 6 feet who can run 4.4 40’s than 6-6 275lbers who are not big clods!
August 9th, 2024 at 4:00 pm
two things: jameis at QB and lousy coaching (mike smith). we’re in a much better place, i hope.
August 9th, 2024 at 4:28 pm
The Pats released Juju and the trade fell through for Ayiuk. Could the Bucs possibly trade a back up WR and a 5th for Matt Judon?
August 9th, 2024 at 4:44 pm
^^^^^^^^^^
we’ve traded with the pats often over the years…
if you can somehow swing a move for judon without giving up the kitchen sink you def do it
August 9th, 2024 at 4:50 pm
thomas is a nice multi-functional player…he’s making the team…
also read “somewhere else”, izien might not make the team…that’ll be a bit of a shocker…
also some vets are on the bubble…it’s starting to get interesting again
August 9th, 2024 at 5:09 pm
Cool bring on the Bullets.
August 9th, 2024 at 5:31 pm
JOE – You were probably right.
In 2017-2018, Mike Smith was the DC. The DBs and DB depth was probably pretty good. Mike Smith is the worst DC we’ve ever had (at least in the last 30 years). If Dirk hadn’t hired and been loyal to his friend, he still may be the HC. He was a good OC.
August 9th, 2024 at 5:49 pm
Look at the back up brains and support the Bucs have that few teams do. Tom Moore is a football genius and has been for, well, generations lol. BA is still around. Derek Brooks and Ronde Barber. Warren Sapp and even GMC. They all love this team and do all they can to help and support. Ian Beckles and Dave Moore on the media side. And God Bless the Big Dog Steve Duemig in Sports Heaven. And we all finally get a FIX lol tomorrow night.
August 9th, 2024 at 5:51 pm
I love the players Licht has been bringing in. His staff are doing great at easing us out of salary cap hell. And the coaching staff are doing well at developing the young players. This team is clearly heading in the right direction!
If our best pass rushers can stay healthy this season we should be able to compete with most everyone.
August 9th, 2024 at 5:56 pm
“Mike Smith is the worst DC we’ve ever had”
I remember how Realist loved the guy and defended him to the end.
August 9th, 2024 at 6:03 pm
Sly,
Mike Smith was only one half of what and who got Dirk Koetter fired. America’s QB, Jameis Winston, was the other half of Koetter’s problems.
August 9th, 2024 at 7:21 pm
i just read somewhere else Izien’s roster spot was in question?
August 9th, 2024 at 7:25 pm
I remember Defense Rules telling me how good Ryan Smith and Chris Conte were and how the Bucs would have one of the best defenses in the NFL under Mike Smith.
I think that was Defense Rules glue sniffing phase.
August 9th, 2024 at 7:29 pm
Now if we can just say we are deep at edge rusher we will be all set!! Time will tell.
August 9th, 2024 at 7:30 pm
Flipping back and forth between the two games on right now, HOU/PIT and ATL/MIA and this is some terrible football.
When they go to 18 games, they will certainly cut back to 2 preseason games. Such a shame what they’ve done to the preseason – not only are these games now beyond worthless and boring, because no one plays anyone early season football is ridiculously sloppy.
Here’s an idea though… how about coaches actually play their guys and get them ready to go so they’re able to pick-up some early season wins. Someone will eventually think of that.
August 9th, 2024 at 7:56 pm
Bucinjim is right… Jameis can make the most sub-average DB/fry-cook look like a pro-bowler. I think the current secondary is pretty solid, but a good pass rush is needed for any secondary to be effective… and that’s a ? with Bucs. Buc’s pass rush disappeared when Suh and JPP left. Hopefully some players step up.
August 9th, 2024 at 8:07 pm
Rod : “I remember Defense Rules telling me how good Ryan Smith and Chris Conte were”
I don’t think Ryan Smith was that bad, I think he was a bit injury prone if I recall, but I can’t get over Chris Conte having his MCL torn while making Pittsburgh’s Vance McDonald’s look like Derrick Henry. I thought Conte was soft to begin with but after that stiff arm… SHEESH! Couldn’t wait to get rid of him. For those headed over to YouTube to see the video, don’t do it while you’re having dinner. It’s purely nauseating.
Who did we replace him with? I’m pretty sure it was Jordan Whitehead.
More than a slight Improvement.
August 9th, 2024 at 9:01 pm
Rod … ‘I think that was Defense Rules glue sniffing phase.’
You just won’t let that go, will ya Rod? Hey Ryan Smith turned out to be a pretty good S/Ts player. And I still like Chris Conte. He wasn’t great, but he had heart & was playing hurt that day (torn PCL … should never have been in that game). He left the game after that stiff arm & was placed on IR right afterwards for the rest of the year. Never played again. Still, he ended up with an 8-year NFL career; not too many folks can say that.
August 9th, 2024 at 9:25 pm
Defense Rules Says:
August 9th, 2024 at 9:01 pm
Rod … ‘I think that was Defense Rules glue sniffing phase.’
You just won’t let that go, will ya Rod? Hey Ryan Smith turned out to be a pretty good S/Ts player. And I still like Chris Conte.
————
OK, I’m sorry, I take it back.
Defense Rules’ glue sniffing phase never ended.
August 9th, 2024 at 9:31 pm
“He’s getting his hands on balls,” Bowles, ever the lover of takeaways, said.
_________
So by using this rationale, Fancy Man Rod Munch could be the greatest DB of all time, although I’m sure he’d prefer to be a tight end.
Sigh…….
August 9th, 2024 at 9:35 pm
Here’s what Football Outsiders had to say about Chris Conte in 2016 – this is the year BEFORE he fell off a cliff playwise.
Strong Safety: Our 2016 Keep Choppin’ Wood lifetime achievement award goes to Buccaneers safety Chris Conte, whose team immediately saw a substantial improvement in its defensive play when they benched him for Keith Tandy in the middle of the season. Even Conte’s good plays often had their downsides, as his pick-six against the Chicago Bears resulted in him splitting his coach’s head open, but that was nothing compared to the headaches he caused when deployed in deep coverage. Tampa Bay’s defensive DVOA when Conte started averaged out to -4.1%, which is massively boosted by games against the Blaine Gabbert 49ers and the can’t-block won’t-block Seahawks. Meanwhile, in the five games after he was benched, they averaged -11.9%. It’s rare for one safety to make that big a difference, but Chris Conte is no ordinary safety. Kind of like Earl Thomas, only in reverse.
August 9th, 2024 at 9:38 pm
DoooshLaRue Says:
August 9th, 2024 at 9:31 pm
“He’s getting his hands on balls,” Bowles, ever the lover of takeaways, said.
_________
So by using this rationale, Fancy Man Rod Munch could be the greatest DB of all time, although I’m sure he’d prefer to be a tight end.Sigh…….
———–
I do believe you meant to add, ‘Not that there’s anything wrong with that’.
Am I right?
August 9th, 2024 at 9:40 pm
KABucs Says:
I don’t think Ryan Smith was that bad
—————
I’ll let Football Outsiders do the talking on Ryan Smith, who was named to their “Keep Choppin’ Wood” team with Chris Conte — just without the lifetime achievement award.
“Smith finished 80th out of 81 qualifying cornerbacks in both success rate and yards per pass, being targeted over and over by some of the league’s most dangerous offenses.”
August 9th, 2024 at 9:53 pm
Depends on how soft your hands are Rod-knee.
😀
August 9th, 2024 at 10:49 pm
Off topic but saw a video asking some Bucs who the fastest team player is and many picked Dean. He is still that fast? Trey Palmer fast? Also saw a show on receivers and Amon St Brown was talking up the difficulty in going against Dean. Long , real speed, and good technique. Just stay healthy and catch the ball and the world is yours Dean.
August 9th, 2024 at 11:01 pm
Huh? Clearly in my humble worthless opinion we have very poor DB’s because of bad schemes in the zone area of coaching. Puting it bluntly, what team besides the Bucs will be lined off wideouts 15 yards and sometimes out of the picture completely at the snap when playing zone. It’s about as hilarious as when lovie smiths goal line defense when coaching the Bucs had only three defenders on the goal line when playing against first and goal. I mean who plays that far off defending first and goal, and expecting to stop anything?
I wish I could put a coaches name on that Tampa zone?
I mean wtf?
August 9th, 2024 at 11:49 pm
If Todd coaches them to know their assignments, good.
If he stays his course or replicates Mike Snith, bad.
August 10th, 2024 at 12:06 am
Anyone who can write 6,385 word posts after sniffing glue has my respect. Even if they’re a lot of cut and pastes.
August 10th, 2024 at 12:25 am
was that the year mariota discovered we forgot the slant pass existed?
with the heroic cody grimm?
August 10th, 2024 at 1:08 am
I hope we do well, and I think Bowles has a plan for the secondary, but I still think we have a big hole at cornerback. I remain concerned.
Not buying all the hype just yet.
August 10th, 2024 at 1:34 am
Just reading the name Mike Smith pains me. Watching the DBs line up 8 yards off the LOS on a 3rd & 6. Cut to every Bucs fan yelling at their TV for the CBs to move up and not just give it to them. Every time it was the same thing. The other teams OC had to be stretching their head wondering why on earth is this guy was doing giving them a easy first down. He took bend but don’t break to the extremes. At least in the late 70s, 80s and 90s we played good defense for the most part.
August 10th, 2024 at 5:10 am
stanglassman, That bend but don’t break philosophy is still in play today with the Bucs D. The positive has been their ability to keep teams out of the end zone for the most part which is the main goal. The negative that drives me crazy is teams march up and down the field between the 20s. I’ve seen opposing teams take up the entire quarters driving the length of the field. Not a good look for time of possession.
August 10th, 2024 at 7:07 am
Playing Conte over Tandy was criminal. Tandy deserved a lot more playing time. Anthony Nelson deserves more playing time in this team
August 10th, 2024 at 7:58 am
The Bucs stunk up the NFL planet and made NFL records doing it. Starting around 1982 through when Tony Dungy came on board in the mid 1990s. It was rough being a Bucs fan, but patient crazies like me stuck it out. I missed out on their opening season losing hijinks back in the 1970s until I discovered them in ’79. I’m still shaking my head over Whitehead’s return. Both he and Izien will make the team with no problems.
August 10th, 2024 at 12:43 pm
Orlando Bucs fan is a ‘79 bandwagon guy. 😁
I was 7 y.o. in ‘76 so I loved the games win or LOSE. But I’ll never forget my father taking the fam to the Airport to greet the team after their 1st win or that first win at home in ‘77. In ‘79 was when I started to understand the game and love for defense. Everyone loved Lee Roy so I loved Richard ‘Batman’ Wood. Colored my shin gaurds with the Batman symbol and wore it on my arm to play football. lol.
August 10th, 2024 at 4:54 pm
Rod Munch says: Whatever he wants to say and I for one will read what he says first. Dude has some great takes. Keepum coming Rob I am just wait to read the next one. Baker forever my man brother. 💪 GO BUCS
August 10th, 2024 at 5:18 pm
“back in 2017 and 2018, those same corners who turned out to be trash were locking down and looking good guarding Mike Evans and Vincent Jackson in practice”
VJax only played 5 games in 2016 and was done. He wasn’t around in ’17 or ’18….
Hopefully Thomas was a valuable addition to the team. Early reports are promising….