Vinny Testaverde, Kirk Cousins, Baker Mayfield And The NFC South
July 2nd, 2024
Will he smile this year?
Joe knows many of his readers are sick of the following (hey, we’re almost there: Bucs training camp opens in almost three weeks. Hang in there!).
And what are Bucs fans sick about? Hearing from all the national #NFLMedia sophists that Kirk Cousins will ride in and save the day for the Dixie Chicks, leading them to the postseason and unseat the Bucs as the kings of the NFC South.
Joe, for months, has been quick to point out these folks need to tap the breaks. Virtually every stenographer who thinks Kirk Cousins will pull a Tom Brady and come to Atlanta and turn them into Super Bowl contenders always seems to overlook one major element:
Cousins is coming off of a blown Achilles.
Now in recent years, players have been able to return from Achilles injuries at a higher rate than years ago when it was pretty much a death sentence for a football career.
That doesn’t mean an Achilles is a minor injury. Just look at former Bucs tight end O.J. Howard. He never was the same after his Achilles. And how did Bucs sacks king Shaq Barrett look last year returning from a blown Achilles?
Well, Albert Breer of SI.com did some research on quarterbacks and Achilles injuries and he couldn’t find much. In fact, the last starting quarterback attempting to return from a blown Achilles was former Bucs quarterback Vinny Testaverde at the start of the century.
Testaverde blew out his Achilles playing for the Jets in the first game of the 1999 season.
Per Breer, the last two quarterbacks who looked remotely the same as before their injuries were Dan Marino (1994) and Testaverde. The former Bucs first overall pick in the 1987 draft explained why he thought he was able to bounce back.
Because we’ve seen a lot of guys come back from popping their Achilles recently, and more successfully from an injury that used to be very difficult for football players to return from, you’d think there’d be some good quarterback history to draw on here. The truth is, there isn’t. ESPN injury guru Stephania Bell did the research last year, and found that Vinny Testaverde (1999) and Dan Marino (’93) were the most recent examples at the position. [Note from Joe: The years Breer cites were the seasons both quarterbacks suffered the injury.]
Both [Marino and Testaverde] came back the following year and started all 16 games, and each, relatively, at least, returned to form. Testaverde did bring up an interesting nuance here, though, in an interview with ESPN. He told Rich Cimini that Rodgers was fortunate his torn Achilles was on the left side, and not in his plant foot. For what it’s worth, Cousins’s torn Achilles was on the right.
Both [Marino and Testaverde] came back the following year and started all 16 games, and each, relatively, at least, returned to form. Testaverde did bring up an interesting nuance here, though, in an interview with ESPN. He told Rich Cimini that [Aaron] Rodgers was fortunate his torn Achilles was on the left side, and not in his plant foot. For what it’s worth, Cousins’s torn Achilles was on the right.
Testaverde blew out the Achilles in his left leg. Marino blew out the Achilles in his right leg, his plant foot. So he was able to overcome this.
But let’s be real: Cousins on his greatest day has never been Marino, not remotely close.
So if Cousins struggles (and remember, he’s playing home games on turf), all the folks who pimped the Dixie Chicks as the new powerhouse of the NFC South are going to have a lot of egg on their faces.
The NFC South still goes through Tampa, no matter how many folks diss Baker Mayfield.
July 2nd, 2024 at 7:12 am
Sometime this season Cousins will take a seat for Penix.
July 2nd, 2024 at 7:25 am
I have always thought that the failure for Cousins this year would not be his Achilles, it would be the lack of consistent play from Drake London and Kyle Pitts.
Neither are NFL studs. College studs yes. Pro studs no!
July 2nd, 2024 at 7:38 am
Marino did say that injury changed his throwing motion for the rest of his career… for whatever that’s worth.
July 2nd, 2024 at 7:49 am
I can almost guarantee Marino would like to be rehabbed and paid like a QB in 2024 over 1993 any day of the week. Talc powder was still consider safe back then.
July 2nd, 2024 at 7:53 am
“Cousins on his greatest day has never been Marino, not remotely close.”
Cousins in his most recent 5 seasons has had passer ratings of 107.4, 105.0, 103.1, 92.5, and 103.8. Granted, passing rules were different then and the passer rating may have been computed differently too (I don’t know), but Marino broke the 100.0 passer rating mark only one season in his 17 year career.
July 2nd, 2024 at 8:27 am
A lot has changed in 25 years besides the $585K for a Back Up QB still being pitched as a starter.
Comparing the procedure now to back then is like comparing 1000 yards receiving where a flag is blown for breathing on a guy too hard.
July 2nd, 2024 at 8:44 am
Oh no, I can’t get Cousins picture out of my head now! No comparison to Marino. But with all the unnecessary media hype on Cousins since signing, he is going down the same rabbit hole as Rodgers after signing with the Jets. I am guessing that Penix could be the number one QB mid-season and that really scares me more than Cousins. In the end, we are lucky to have Baker as our QB!
July 2nd, 2024 at 8:45 am
@ Fan of the South
Oki dokie. Then compare Cousins’ 100.0+ passer rating seasons to Mayfield’s …
Cousins 6
Mayfield 0
July 2nd, 2024 at 9:04 am
mr mac Says:
July 2nd, 2024 at 7:53 am
“Cousins on his greatest day has never been Marino, not remotely close.”
Cousins in his most recent 5 seasons has had passer ratings of 107.4, 105.0, 103.1, 92.5, and 103.8. Granted, passing rules were different then and the passer rating may have been computed differently too (I don’t know), but Marino broke the 100.0 passer rating mark only one season in his 17 year career.:
Just for reference sake:
In 1994, when Marino came back, he had the 3rd best passer rating at 89.2. The 15th best passer rating was 77.9.
In 2022, the year before he was injured, Cousins 92.5 was 13th in the league that season. The 15th best was 91.1.
The problem of folks comparing passer ratings from different Era’s.
In 2022 there were 19 QBs on Pro Football Reference higher passer ratings then Marino’s 3rd best rating of 89.2.
With bad logic someone might say all 19 of those QBs are better than Marino.
Folks did that with Winston as well.
July 2nd, 2024 at 9:05 am
So, in other words, there is no reason to believe that Cousins will be dramatically affected by the injury. A QB doesn’t have to move like a pass rusher or tight end, after all.
July 2nd, 2024 at 9:06 am
All I know is both teams have to play most or all 17 games before we crown anything. Bring on the games!!! More Ws=better results. Maybe picking Penix works out for Atlanta even in the short term. Maybe not.
July 2nd, 2024 at 9:37 am
If Cousins is all that why don’t teams hold on to him as a franchise QB. What important game did he ever really win. 1-4 in playoffs, 12 seasons with a record of 16-47 against winning teams.
I hear he is a good guy but to garner all this attention as a great white hope. I don’t think so.
July 2nd, 2024 at 9:44 am
Baker fan. Don’t say things like that bro because people can ask the question about Baker Mayfield.
July 2nd, 2024 at 9:48 am
Atl got extremely poor QB play last year.
They only need credible QB play to go to 9-8. Cousins will give them better than that.
Expect 10 wins.
July 2nd, 2024 at 10:08 am
No doubt it’s an age thing, and in fact, I’m not in the shape as in my prime athletic years, but it’s been 13 weeks since my Achilles surgery, and I am still a looooong way from anything resembling normal.
That said, I don’t have top-gun rehab specialists and all the attendant equipment, and I am not 100% daily committed to rehab.
I have been using PulseElectro-Magnetic therapy with interesting results for healing the scar.
For every GreenHead or Rodgers or Cousins or Marino, there are dozens of promising athletes who never fully recover from a blown Achilles. Plus, those I named are QBs which are less physically demanding positions. How many speedsters keep their speed after an Achilles? How many DB’s can still shadow and cut?
July 2nd, 2024 at 10:09 am
Cousins and Marino played in different eras. No comparison.
July 2nd, 2024 at 10:15 am
tap the breaks != tap the brakes, Joe… FYI
July 2nd, 2024 at 10:25 am
I think Marino was affected by the injury. His arm strength started dropping in the 90s and the achilles may very well have accelerated that.
July 2nd, 2024 at 10:40 am
Cousins is a good QB…A consistent league top 5-15 QB1 performer in any given year…& I totally get why the media types are in his corner, now that he’s entered the fray of the “weak” NFC South.
However, the plant foot Achilles issue is no joke. He may be his old self or he may fall off the cliff. We won’t really know until he’s pushed to be mobile in the pocket.
But Kirk does not change the middling Falcons into a juggernaut…No more that Carr did when he landed in NOLA.
But the 1 factor no one is talkin about with the Falcons, is that they focused on drafting DEF after stunning the universe by taking Penix Jr. #8…They followed up day 1 by investing in their next 4 picks on DT / DE / DE / LB…So, if a couple of those picks click…ALT could be a serious challenger for the South w/ a 80% Cousins at the helm.
July 2nd, 2024 at 11:30 am
Not wishing it, but I predict Cousins gets hurt before game 6.
July 2nd, 2024 at 11:33 am
Why should Cousins be any more successful in Atlanta than Minnesota?
July 2nd, 2024 at 12:01 pm
First of all everyone else covered the fact that coming back from injury is hard but the Atlanta supporting cast is really unproven on offense. Cousins doesn’t have an elite WR to throw to and that is kind of the point these pundits are missing.
But that ATL defense front seven isn’t going to gel that quickly even though I think their secondary is very, very talented.
Morris can do a lot of scheming but the end result is you need front seven defenders to hit their gaps.
July 2nd, 2024 at 12:26 pm
mr mac Says:
July 2nd, 2024 at 8:45 am
@ Fan of the South
Oki dokie. Then compare Cousins’ 100.0+ passer rating seasons to Mayfield’s
No clue what the F you are talking about.
Are you defending Cousins? Mayfield? Are you drunk?
In 25 years. medical science has changed. $$ for a Washed up QB has changed. PI rules have changed.
However you came up with that being a hit piece on Cousins I really have no clue.
100 proof is still 100 proof. Have another.
July 2nd, 2024 at 1:11 pm
Wins. Are what matters.
With Doug Williams at QB between 1978-1982, the Bucs were a .500 football team. Before Doug, and then after until the arrival of Dungy, the Bucs were so bad that arithmetic fails to describe the horror.
Doug’s measures weren’t great by today’s standards, except for one – winning.
The team loved him and believed in him. When Culverhouse refused to pay him, it was obvious what Culverhouse was and why he didn’t. He also got what he deserved. He never loved to see another Bucs winning season. May he roast in hell.
But I digress. The Cousins stat that means the most is quoted above, one playoff win and a horrible record against winning teams.
I’ll take Baker every day, all day, for how he plays and how the team responds to him. Not to mention throwing for 28 TDs and 4000 yards in an offense that was put on the field to control clock rather than score points.
11-6 or better.
#AsToddEvolves
July 2nd, 2024 at 1:15 pm
Kirk’s #s are fools gold. I dont care what his passer rating is. He folds like a cheap tent in crucial moments in the games. Especially in the RedZone. He’s not a gamer like Baker…… AT ALL. Bring on Kirk, the falcons, and whatever bozo Bucs fans who think kissn Cousins Is going to the superbowl with the falcons. He had better talent and coaching in Minnesota. This is hilarious to me. If Cousins is so good why does he have only 1 playoff win with all the Supreme talent he’s had around him. Bakers won 2 playoff games in half the time. Baker stands up in the playoffs Cousins folds time after time.
July 2nd, 2024 at 1:18 pm
Cousins is a product of the superb talent he’s had around him. When the chips are down and he needs a crunch time play he turns into Joe Bidden everytime.
July 2nd, 2024 at 1:22 pm
Passer rating is one of the biggest cons this side of PFF offensive line grades.
Sure, Deshaun Watson is a better quarterback than Joe Montana. Sure.
Or Mitch Trubisky is a better quarterback than Roger Staubach. Right.
But… but… but… passer ratings!
Cousins is a nice quarterback. He ain’t Marino. Trying to compare the two is an admission someone never watched Marino in his prime.
July 2nd, 2024 at 3:07 pm
@mr nac: Name me a game won by passer rating.
July 2nd, 2024 at 3:18 pm
But Mayfield has a better playoff record so take them stupid stats & shove them in the corner of u r p-shoot
July 2nd, 2024 at 3:34 pm
Cousins has been a VERY good regular season QB for quite some time. We’ve seen his ceiling. He’ll probably put good numbers up again but he’ll never sniff a SB.
Baker may never match Cousins statistically during the regular season. But he’ll get us to “the 2nd season” and win. I honestly believe if we can stay healthy and gel as a TEAM the sky’s the limit.
I’m digging all the hate towards Baker and the team in general. Fuel for the fire 🔥
I think we’ve got the ingredients. Let Baker bake.
July 2nd, 2024 at 3:34 pm
Seems we’re hoping cousins won’t be healthy because of that injury but we should proceed as though he is. No he won’t be nimble but you don’t have to be to win games
July 2nd, 2024 at 4:34 pm
Playoff wins: Baker 2 – Cousins 1
Head to head last year: Baker won
July 2nd, 2024 at 6:08 pm
Who thinks Baker Mayfield will lead the Buccaneers to a Superbowl this year?
July 2nd, 2024 at 7:01 pm
Because everybody knows that passer ratings win games…🙄
July 2nd, 2024 at 9:06 pm
The Superbowl?? If they can run and not become one demetional some believe so I think there’s a good chance if the cards fall the right way I mean receiving wise they’re ready, Bucky and Rashad? I’ve said this once let Keift run the ball he’s got pretty good hands
July 3rd, 2024 at 7:25 am
I think he can lead them to a Superbowl but again it’s the team that works as a whole that does it.
July 4th, 2024 at 10:28 am
Now we get our choice of “YOU LIKE THAT???” and “GET YOUR WEIGHT UP SON!!! either of which are kind of corny. Cousins has been a consistently good qb throughout his career, something Atl hasn’t had since Ryan left. Now they have it. Mayfield has never put together back to back seasons of good to great play but yet all these people who’ve come to this site because of him claim he’s so great. The only thing I’ve seen him do great is avoid sure fire sacks which is exciting to see. Last year he only had 6 or 7(out of 19) games that could be considered good because he does poorly in the first half. If he could play a full game as great as some people think then think how good the Bucs and Baker would be! I would back him IF he could do that.
July 4th, 2024 at 3:49 pm
The front office should be compiling a list of names from the comments section here.
More hate and doubt coming from here than from the mainstream sports talking heads.. smh
Kirk = higher floor
Baker = higher ceiling