Throwing From A Clean Pocket
July 14th, 2024
Odd findings.
In a stat geeky breakdown of quarterbacks, it seems like last year’s results weren’t that great for Bucs quarterback Baker Mayfield.
And this seems odd because Mayfield’s “baseball card stats” (what the stat geeks sneer, those basic, traditional football statistics) were the best of his career.
The stat geek outfit @fball_insights studied each and every pass that left the right hand of Mayfield last season from a clean pocket.
Mayfield was in the lower quadrant for turnover-worthy passes and catchable throws. Again, this is odd because Mayfield impressed the Bucs enough to get a nice raise.
Is this possibly why despite any good weapons in the passing game, Bucs coach Todd Bowles prefers the Bucs keep it on the ground with the league’s worst rushing attack?
Catchable vs Turnover-worthy throw rates when clean, QBs since 2021.
You invest three straight first round picks into skill positions but have a non-existent floor at QB, might be time for a reboot. Kirk Cousins to ATL. pic.twitter.com/8b0cgil3q4
— Football Insights đź“Š (@fball_insights) March 12, 2024
July 14th, 2024 at 8:16 am
Kind of a deflating post Joe. It gives me the feeling that the Bucs “settled” for Mayfield because of their budget, draft position (26) and below average free agent availability. I for one, am thrilled to have Mayfield on board and starting. It’s the unmeasurables I guess. Some call it “moxie” some call it “stones”.
July 14th, 2024 at 8:41 am
Think it has way more to do with game script from a conservative head coach. Emphasis on don’t turn the ball over no matter what. This is evident by the amount of times the ball was checked down to White instead of Evans and Godwin. Bowles wants a game manager not a gun slinger. Seemed like Mayfield was pretty accurate to me, but there was definitely hesitation throwing the ball in the middle of the field and deep throws.
July 14th, 2024 at 8:46 am
Things that matter:
1. How a quarterback does with no pressure
2. How a quarterback does with pressure.
2 (a) How often a QB gets pressured.
3. How many turnovers a QB responsible for.
4. How many drives end in TDs.
Focusing on the 1st two, number 2 is way more important than number 1.
A deeper dive shows that Baker and the Bucs secured an average of 7.4 yards per drop back when not pressured. That was 22nd out of 36 rated QBs. But a simple 8.1 yards would have tied him with Josh Allen and put him in the top 10.
Again, the more meaningful stat is how the quarterback does when pressured. AND HOW often he is pressured. Mayfield was pressured on 26% of his drop backs, slightly under league average.
In that category, he averaged 3.1 yards drop back that was 13th best. There were 8 elite quarterbacks that averaged 3.9 yards of more per drop back when pressured. There were 9 quarterbacks that averaged under 2 yards per drop back when pressured.
Baker pretty solid, especially at the salary cap we secured him at.
July 14th, 2024 at 9:24 am
Baker struggles from a clean pocket because he’s so short. Can’t see over his OL.
July 14th, 2024 at 9:39 am
Someone has to apply judgment to what a “catchable ball” is as well as what a “turnover-worthy” throw is. The chart looks very analytical and tries to “prove” that the QBs these “analysts” think suck actually do. In other words, this is one contrived chart.
So the king of football is Kirk Cousins.
Riiiiiight.
I’ll take old fashioned tangibles, like completions, completion %, yards, touchdowns, actual turnovers, and wins.
July 14th, 2024 at 9:43 am
When do training camp start ?
July 14th, 2024 at 11:09 am
Worst everything is apparently what the NFL world always puts on paper about the Bucs. I wonder if you just get to keep your job by such tactics? If so we should have a few new reporters after their words were shoved down their throats last season. Joe our reporter guy must live in a tent or something because he brings up the best in the Bucs news, haha! Back to my norm, let the bs fly all you Haters.
July 14th, 2024 at 11:41 am
Less donuts
More 30 Burgers
July 14th, 2024 at 12:00 pm
It’s that time of summer when the pickings are slim
July 14th, 2024 at 12:27 pm
Could it be that immeasurable intangibles could outweigh tangibles when gaging success? That is what I believe. Mayfield’s moxie makes a difference. That might also be why he got the big contract.
July 14th, 2024 at 1:15 pm
Every pass by every QB on that grid needed to be individually (and subjectively) assessed by humans, and doubtfully the same human at the same time. That’s one of the most bogus pieces of dung yet crafted by the pencil neck nerd crowd.
July 14th, 2024 at 1:17 pm
Give me a break. What is the definition of a turnover worthy throw? Baker threw for 4044 yards and 28 tds with 10 INTs. He had a QBR of 54 which isn’t the best, but I expect him to improve with a better O line and OC this year.
July 14th, 2024 at 1:25 pm
A throw that hit the defender right in his hands but he dropped it!!
July 14th, 2024 at 2:01 pm
“He had a QBR of 54 which isn’t the best, but I expect him to improve with a better O line and OC this year.“
Gonna need a better Baker too.
July 14th, 2024 at 2:19 pm
While chewing gum, standing on one foot, throwing to WRs over 6’- Baker Mayfield is top 3. Thats the only stat that really metters.
Well, I guess wins/losses, completion rate, and Yardage are kinda important,too.
July 14th, 2024 at 2:21 pm
The prettiest girl in the room is not always the best f%#*$.
With that said, Baker is among some pretty ugly company on that graph
July 14th, 2024 at 2:27 pm
Stop the hateful vitriol. Waaaah.
July 14th, 2024 at 2:57 pm
Over time terms like “catchable” and “interception-worthy” should catch up to the actual stats, if they are worth anything. It seems pretty subjective, imo.
July 14th, 2024 at 3:16 pm
Glad I could teach you a word. You literally insult someone and a protected class every post. You fling around words like “tard, idiot, lunatic, moron, etc” (ableist) and call ppl women, girl, etc as in insult (misogynist). I don’t have the stomach to read your many, many,, many posts [I just did a 24 hr count and you post almost every hr and average 3 posts per article– get a life], but I would not be surprised to find racist, age-ist, or a full catalog of -istisms. You seem fairly intelligent and you definitely think yourself clever, so I’m suggesting you find a hobby to fill your void. Lean away from your sociopathic tendencies, embrace happiness and try spreading it instead of the manure you continue to heap on others.
July 14th, 2024 at 3:24 pm
“last year”
That’s three years of stats.
Maybe “this Joe” should stop posting stats since he clearly has no ability to understand them.
July 14th, 2024 at 3:27 pm
In summary, that subjective chart is bollocks.
July 14th, 2024 at 3:47 pm
“Don’t believe your eyes and ears. Believe some geek who knows nothing about football.”
July 14th, 2024 at 3:50 pm
According to this Jacoby Brisset is a top five QB. Like to see on stat that compares pure dawg and grit to pampers and tampons
July 14th, 2024 at 4:32 pm
And ChiTeafan is the newest designation.
Stoopitard
July 14th, 2024 at 4:33 pm
Have a midol
July 14th, 2024 at 4:41 pm
Joe … ‘In a stat geeky breakdown of quarterbacks, it seems like last year’s results weren’t that great for Bucs quarterback Baker Mayfield.’
Last season was Baker’s FIRST with a new team (that had its own ‘issues’), a new HC (for him), and a new OC (literally new). No question that we had quality WRs, but our OLine was circumspect, and our RBs & TEs surely left something to be desired. We’ve made improvements to our OLine, and hopefully to our RB stable (not convinced that our TE group will be better however).
Bottom line in any event is that the TEAM surrounding Baker SHOULD perform better in several aspects (better OLine protection, improved run game, and improved receivers productivity). Baker SHOULD be a lot more comfortable in our system this year. Personally I don’t care all that much about HIS stats; I care a lot about the TEAM’s won-lost record. If our running game is much improved but Baker throws for less yards yet we win MORE, I’m happy. If his stats are up, yet our W-L record is worse, won’t be happy at all.
July 14th, 2024 at 6:04 pm
Baker made a lot of good plays but he also made some horrible throws when players were open. Statistically speaking Trask will be better
July 14th, 2024 at 6:10 pm
Dave “Body Shaped Like A” Pear is posting over and over to defend the poor play of Mayfield yet again. No surprise. What a Mayfield homer.
Anyone that actually watched all of our games last season saw how mediocre Mayfield actually was. Soooo many games when he did diddly squat in the 1st half and then racked up yards late in games when the game was already over and we were going to lose.
And YES as someone mentioned, we DID “settle” for Mayfield because of our draft position and other factors. Bowles loves Mayfield no matter how bad he plays. They both won’t be with the Bucs in 2 years.
July 14th, 2024 at 6:58 pm
Baker has always had some kind of problem with clean pockets. That is when he gets happy feet and no one knows what will happen.
We got lucky last season and he did control those feet, so he might have turned a page, we will soon find out.
July 14th, 2024 at 7:05 pm
Trashk to the Stupid – my takes are based on assessments of coaches, players, and GM. You know, the ones who get paid millions of dollars to make decisions to win games or be fired.
They disagree with your take of the Bucs starting QB.
Blather away, simptard .
July 14th, 2024 at 7:54 pm
Trask to the future,
Come on dude, every post from you is bashing baker.. we can only hope that baker doesn’t get hurt . Be careful what you wish for..
July 14th, 2024 at 9:04 pm
Baker is like that barely worn charter boat. When you see it you know it’s the one. Not shiny and not dilapidated, just broke in. You’ll see.
July 14th, 2024 at 9:09 pm
Not sure what those stats have to do with having a clean pocket, but I don’t dispute where baker is placed. We def were fortunate with a number of dropped would-be INTs last year if we’re being honest. And there were a number of long balls that were remarkably off target. Heck, that last Panthers game alone prob brought down his metrics on this.
July 14th, 2024 at 9:10 pm
Not sure what those stats have to do with having a clean pocket, but I don’t dispute where baker is placed. We def were fortunate with a number of dropped would-be INTs last year if we’re being honest. And there were a number of long balls that were remarkably off target. Heck, that last Panthers game alone prob brought down his metrics on this.
It’s also for 2021 – 2023, so that’s including his last season with CLE and CAR…
July 14th, 2024 at 9:55 pm
For the love of Pete, can we just let the man play football. Show him some love, and give him a team that believes in him . The man is a winner.
He has played 5 years in the league with 6 different OCs. He played with a torn labrum during one season plus had to endure the two most dysfunctional teams in the NFL. Cleveland and Carolina are career killing teams for qbs. No one seems to factor in these stats when evaluating Baker. He is a winner
July 14th, 2024 at 11:30 pm
Dave Pear,
Oh yeah? Then why didn’t they offer Mayfield Top 10 QB money?
Go ahead, we’ll wait for your expert “analysis.”
July 14th, 2024 at 11:33 pm
#99,
No I don’t only bash Baker, but cmon so many Bucs fans are being honest with how he played last season. He had moments of brilliance (Green Bay game) and certainly got us a nice playoff win. But he has to play a lot better in the first half of games or we won’t win 8 games this upcoming season.
July 14th, 2024 at 11:34 pm
*Aren’t being honest
July 15th, 2024 at 12:21 am
Listen .if they wanted him to throw deep they would have told him..there isn’t a quarterback with a stronger arm..none .
July 15th, 2024 at 3:35 am
Cretins gonna Crete.
Take it up with Jason.
July 15th, 2024 at 3:59 am
A P.O.S.ter with her favorite player in her name is one to be taken seriously. Ya.
July 15th, 2024 at 4:25 am
The stats are from the 2021 through 2023. So many other dynamics with this too. For instance, Aaron Rodgers didn’t play well in 2021, his last season with the Packers in 2022 was not good either, and last season with the Jets he didn’t play. So many other examples too, including DeShaun Watson’s, Mac Jones, … Kirk Cousins has never won a SB and has only won one playoff game out of of four. So there is that too.
I am not worried about these stats at all. Baker will do well this season, and he has been healthier than some of the names on the Twitter snippet too.
July 15th, 2024 at 5:24 am
These are from the last 3 years combined ! Of course he’s not up there in the top half. Show me the same graph from last year alone
July 15th, 2024 at 8:38 am
All the QB’s in that quadrant make between 12m and 1m and most are back ups.
Mayfield has prospered from the motto you can fool some of the people all of the time.
Bucs management and their 35m for 10m QB for one.
July 15th, 2024 at 2:06 pm
@DavePear – solid post. It also substantiates what I saw on the field.
I don’t discount data, I’m just skeptical of how it is manipulated by media to support a pre-existing conclusion.
If Baker is bad from a clean pocket, who generated the 4,000 + yards of offense? It certainly wasn’t the run game. I can see someone twisting this into an assertion that the receivers saved him by catching poorly thrown passes. I’m sure some of that is true, but I saw just as many well thrown passes that were dropped.
I also did not see Baker’s interceptions as a problem – so poorly thrown balls did not seem to translate into INT’s at a higher rate.
It’s about context, thanks for adding to it!