Strong Numbers For Bucs’ Run Game
June 9th, 2024
This seems strange to Joe.
Listening to the loud crowd, the Bucs had a horrible offensive line. Just the fact Tristan Wirfs is a starter seems to blow up this narrative, but Joe is digressing.
The loud crowd bellyached so much about the line, you would have thought it was 2014 when the Bucs had the likes of Oniel Cousins, Sir SmokeALot Anthony Collins, Garrett “Whoops” Gilkey and Patrick Omameh on the line.
Fun times!
So Joe is confused by the stat that handicapper turned stathead Warren Sharp dug up. Seems the Bucs were one of the best teams in preventing runs for negative yardage. Only two teams, Buffalo and Philadelphia, had a lower percentage of carries that lost yards than the Bucs.
Only 15 percent of Bucs runs lost yardage last year.
Given the fact Rachaad White had 61 percent of the Bucs’ 439 rushing attempts, and that White — depending on the stat you read — was awful to abysmal in yards after contact, that would suggest the 2023 Bucs’ offensive line wasn’t the issue.
But that’s not what the loud crowd says!
So should Joe believe the cold hard numbers or the kneejerk reflexive braying and foot-stomping about the offensive line?
% of RB runs that didn't gain yards*
25% – JAX
24%
23% – NYG, NYJ, CLE, ARI
22%
21%
20% – SEA, NE, HOU, CAR
19% – MIN, IND, DEN, ATL, NO
18% – PIT, DAL, LV, KC, LAC
17% – MIA, CIN
16% – CHI, TEN, LAR, WAS
15% – BAL, TB, DET, SF, GB
14% – PHI
13% – BUF*0/neg yds, 2023 reg sea
— Warren Sharp (@SharpFootball) February 22, 2024
June 9th, 2024 at 12:17 am
This reminds me of the time that Clod Christianson said that all the Bucs needed to do was get their minus two runs to zero yard runs.
The Bucs line especially the LG-C-RG colonition was a pathetic atrocity. This has already been well documented, backed by data , in these here web sites. There’s always some data, cut a certain way, to illuminate anyone’s point of view even if way off from reality.
The changes in the off-season indicate that the forefathers understand this better than anyone like us who doesn’t matter.
June 9th, 2024 at 12:48 am
So if a RB breaks a tackle behind the LOS, the o-line gets the credit for it now?
The truth seems pretty obvious:
1. Rachaad White needs to run through contact better
2. The o-line needs to open holes in the run game more often. Hainsey in particular was weak at center.
Their pass blocking was fine.
June 9th, 2024 at 12:52 am
Wow Joe, you finally found the stat that proves O line is great and White sucks!
Congrats! Tell Warren good job!
Did you actually watch Hainsey, Stinnie, and yes, Mauch too, last year Joe? White did a tremendous job getting to the LOS on many of Warrens stat runs. I’m sure you did not bother to notice that we started the season trying to run a zone scheme and…we sucked. Went sloooowly back to more man and finally got White to stop screwing around in the backfield and Voila! Things looked better. Stinnie and Hainsey still sucked Joe…Mauch got better.
Did Whites lack of vision hurt us at times? No doubt. But he was not the end all be all of our Run game problem as you seem to insist.
Did I mention “play calling”? Not many have mentioned this lately but you are allowed to throw on first down and run on second down…Just saying. Mix it up! BTW there are different places to run as well. Inside Left was an alarming favorite right behind our weak spots. You are allowed to run outside and to the right also. Mix it up!
Not even gonna get in to the lousy Pass Pro! Ask Baker …Not Warren, on that one Joe.
Go Bucs!
June 9th, 2024 at 12:58 am
The 2023 trio of Stinnie, Hainsey and rookie Mauch were among the worst interior OLine’s in the league. Probably THE worst The Tackles were good. The entire interior sucked!
Thems the “cold hard” facts Joseph!
I saw White turn multiple 2-3 yard losses into 0-1 yard gains last year btw….
We now have Barton to spearhead the whole thing and Mauch will be much better this year. Plus – there’s nowhere to go but up for the Interior OLine AND the ‘running game’ – so take heart Joe – the arrow IS pointing up in both cases….
Because a downward pointing arrow doesn’t exist from where we are sitting…
June 9th, 2024 at 4:21 am
Please please dont ever remind of that horrible Bengal Anthony Collins yuck. He reminds me of 5hat horrible Bengal Michael the ghost johnson. Just bad memories…
June 9th, 2024 at 5:46 am
Joe … ‘Given the fact Rachaad White had 61 percent of the Bucs’ 439 rushing attempts, and that White — depending on the stat you read — was awful to abysmal in yards after contact, that would suggest the 2023 Bucs’ offensive line wasn’t the issue.’
Your obsession to PROVE (?) that Rachaad is an abysmal runner is getting sadder by the day Joe. You’re grasping at straws … again.
SIS Data Hub provides a decent look at each player’s productivity. Here’s what they show for Rachaad in 2022 & 2023:
o 2022: 16 games – 129 rushes – 481 yards – 3.64 YPC – 27 1st downs (on 20.9% of his runs) … 62 runs inside (3.6 YPC) … 48 runs off tackle (4.8 YPC) – 19 runs outside (1.5 YPC) … 287 Yards After Contact – 2.2 YPC … 8 Broken Tackles – 6.2%
o 2023: 17 games – 272 rushes – 990 yards – 3.73 YPC – 46 1st downs (on 16.9% of his runs) … 107 runs inside (3.6 YPC) … 143 runs off tackle (3.7 YPC) – 22 runs outside (3.5 YPC) … 632 Yards After Contact – 2.3 YPC … 27 Broken Tackles – 9.9%
The obvious: Rachaad ran the ball a tad more in 2023 than in 2022. Not so obvious: his YPC for off-tackle runs (4.8 YPC) was significantly better than his YPC inside or outside. His broken tackle percentage (6%) was not very good.
In 2023 his YPC was VERY consistent regardless of where he ran (3.5 to 3.7 YPC regardless of whether he ran inside, off-tackle or outside). But his broken tackle percentage was considerably higher in 2023 (10%) than it was in 2022 (6%).
White’s improved broken tackle % leads me to agree with Pickgrin that “I saw White turn multiple 2-3 yard losses into 0-1 yard gains last year btw” (I saw the same thing on any number of occasions). Does Rachaad have great ‘vision’? Probably not, but that doesn’t matter much when there’s a wall of opposing defenders in your face. The fact that his YPC was consistent across the board (no matter WHERE he ran) last year kinda substantiates that I think.
The one stat that stands out mostly to me though is his decrease in productivity in runs off-tackle from 2022 (4.8 YPC) to 2023 (3.7 YPC). Only 1 YPC difference, but it’s actually a huge change. Over on the right side in 2022 he had Wirfs & Mason (both experienced at their positions) to block for him; in 2023 it was Goedeke & Mauch (both new at those positions). I suspect that had some impact, as well as having a new play-caller.
June 9th, 2024 at 5:57 am
OH BTW Joe, White’s improvement in his broken tackle percentage (6% to 10%) still puts him way down in the RB pecking order. All of the better RBs seem to average 15% – 25% on missed tackles. My guess in White’s case is that that’s a reflection of the OLine not doing a decent job of creating that initial hole (hard to make 5 or 6 defenders miss simultaneously?). Once in space, Rachaad’s proven to be VERY dangerous.
June 9th, 2024 at 6:29 am
Don’t care about last years numbers. New year, new team. Mauch another year along, adding Barton, and Bucky, have to be much better this season in the run game.
June 9th, 2024 at 6:31 am
Facts = foot stomping…….and braying.
Give it up man, it’s a list cause.
😂
June 9th, 2024 at 7:53 am
I don’t need some numbers to tell me that the oline especially lg,c,rg sucked all anyone has to do is use their eyes
June 9th, 2024 at 8:12 am
@Defense Rules. What I don’t understand is why haven’t the fans revolted on White yet? I read most of the fan posts here and why aren’t we as down on White as JBF? Are we seduced by his pass catching ability? Are we just not as smart? Or as fans are we finally mature enough to understand more contextual aspects regarding the X’s and O’s of football?
Stats aside, since we lost Jensen, to which JBF “might” call this a coincidence, NO ONE has been able to run well behind this offensive line, and there was some carry over from the previous regime, and Fournette was not any better in 2022. Our turnover on our interior Oline has been rough and we should consider ourselves lucky if Goedeke turns out to be a solid RT. Combined all of this with new play caller in Canales, who at times seemed pretty damn predictable, I just don’t think last season’s offense was RB friendly. Look, I’m sure early on White was hitting his gaps that he was supposed to, but finding no space. At some point when that breaks down and/or the trust, I can see him trying to create his own opportunity to which there wasn’t any other options, or White isn’t talented enough to go off script. Either way, I think this kid has flashed talent.
Our Oline is the most talented we’ve seen since 2020 albeit inexperienced, but tons of potential. Combine that with Coen’s experience and scheme, it will give White and all the other RBs more opportunity to be more productive on the ground this season. The RB room might be too talented for a 1K yard season for White, but if his yards per carry doesn’t improve, I’ll concede that we need to move on from White.
June 9th, 2024 at 8:38 am
How does this compare to passes?
June 9th, 2024 at 8:52 am
Interior OL was poor. Prove us wrong Joe. Tackles played very well. Fournette had a solid year with our solid IOL prior to the dismantling- which points to IOL issue over RB issue. Yes?
June 9th, 2024 at 8:59 am
That Anthony Collins reference brought back some bad memories. The Bucs should always think twice about bringing in free agents from the Bengals…and I’ll add the Falcons.
June 9th, 2024 at 9:05 am
The Bucs’ OLine was so good last year that Licht and Bowles spent their 1st round pick on a new stud Center and replaced 2 Guards with new Free Agent Guards.
June 9th, 2024 at 9:50 am
The run game reflects the OL and RB play, and playcalling. We needed upgrades in all areas and I’m generally optimistic that we are better this year.
My biggest concern is with White getting the bulk of the carries when Edmund’s run stats were just as good, maybe slightly better, and Bucky’s college YAC number was very good. I hope Coen gives more carries to Chase and Bucky this year.
June 9th, 2024 at 10:02 am
The idea is to open your eyes and look where you’re going, instead of closing them and bracing yourself for the hit. You think Coen can teach him that? If your eyes are open you can see a lot better, and that solid wall in front of you means turn right or left and SEE, with your eyes open, if there’s anywhere else to go man. I like the kid once he gets moving but even I would get tired of hitting the wall and try something else. I don’t think he ever had those kind of situations in college or something.
June 9th, 2024 at 10:09 am
The loudest of the crowd who thought that the Bucs OLINE play was not good dating back to 2022 was none other than the GOAT, Tom Brady.
TB12 was seen on national television cursing out Hainsey and Goedeke for their atrocious play in the Steelers game during his final season with the Bucs.
Hainsey and Goedeke were looking right at TB12 as he was looking right at them and spewing out a ton of criticism for their play that was filled with naughty words.
Tristan Wirfs was off to the side of them and TB12 had no interaction with him as TB12 dressed down Hainsey and Goedeke.
That clip went viral.
June 9th, 2024 at 10:09 am
I haven’t legitimately complained about the o-line since we moved on from Demar Dotson. Once we had Wirfs in there, our o-line became top 5 in the league.
But, I will say the interior lacks a certain pop. When we had Jensen, Marpet, and Cappa, that was an elite interior. Cappa was just average, but Marpet and Jensen raised the bar.
Hopefully Barton, at center or guard, will bring that missing pop. It will depend on Mauch’s development. But if that’s the case, mixed with a better run game plan from Coen, White will have no more excuses
June 9th, 2024 at 10:24 am
Jake been there since the beginning Says:
June 9th, 2024 at 10:02 am
The idea is to open your eyes and look where you’re going, instead of closing them and bracing yourself for the hit. You think Coen can teach him that?
*****************************************************************
Your TV must be great!, I can’t see the Running Backs eyes from my couch.
June 9th, 2024 at 10:26 am
With the addition of Barton, another o-line draft pick, along with a couple free agents, it looks like the organization agrees with the loud crowd. Mmmm. Maybe the loud crowd isn’t so dumb after all.
.
June 9th, 2024 at 10:37 am
Where the O lineman ranked is all I need to know. If you are in the 50s or 60s you’re basically last.
June 9th, 2024 at 11:02 am
Joes right.
The interior offensive line was fantastic. Especially Aaron Stenne And Robert Hainsey.
White is just a horrible Running back.
Yet they cut Stennie. replaced Hainsey. Put Mauch on a “ Muscle up or die” weight program.
And White is still our starting Running Back .
Better go enlighten our Coaching staff sounds like they are accidently firing the wrong guys! Guess the Bucs dont understand that the Oline has nothing to do with the running game.
Is the the same “Joe” that wanted to draft a QB in the first round when we had just signed Mayfield? The Same Joe that said we should never draft a Guard or Center in the First round?
Whew.
June 9th, 2024 at 12:34 pm
Never really understood the bellyaching crowd that calls our Oline trash. There are so many stats out there that literally prove that our Oline INST trash. Yet people still cry about it. 🤦♂️
June 9th, 2024 at 1:11 pm
The run game was hot garbage and the title for worst rushing attack in the league for second straight year. You going to believe this here spin or your own eyes? They were awful.
June 9th, 2024 at 1:14 pm
Ah good ol’ stats.
If a RB was to run for only 1yard on 85% of his carries he would fall into the 15 percentile. Just saying…
It would be interesting to see the % for plays that gained say 2 yards or more.
June 9th, 2024 at 1:31 pm
Last in rushing two years straight.
Can’t polish a turd.
June 9th, 2024 at 1:32 pm
It’s still a turd. 💩
June 9th, 2024 at 1:55 pm
Joe is being disingenuous. He knows people who see the line was a problem weren’t talking about the tackles. It was the IOL and we all know it. Joe is putting words in people’s mouths that he knows damn well they didn’t say.
June 9th, 2024 at 4:24 pm
This Joe is a closet libtards ..period. If he doesn’t like the narrative he just makes a new one.
June 9th, 2024 at 6:21 pm
It’s going to be worse this year because they paid Baker and look at the type of runningback they drafted. It’s going to be more passing than running the ball instead of trying to run a balance offense and just let Baker manage the game and we can win that way.
June 9th, 2024 at 8:52 pm
So yeah that’s a good thing but what about all the times Baker was running for his life man? The line was MEH… Defensive guys were having lunch back there at times. It’s gonna get better because all the Online guys that are trying to get that one spot, so whoever gets it will be on callout. Barton will be pretty good and the rest of the line, well their good. We Got It Going On.
Let’s Go Bucs!!!!