Five Things
November 20th, 2023
Deven Thompkins dodges 49ers punter Mitch Wishnowsky. (Photo courtesy of Buccaneers.com.)
Rough game yesterday. There were bright spots and some things that gave Joe hope and promise. Not enough to outweigh the bad. Let’s get into it.
Adapt, Adjust, Overcome
Joe’s old man was a naval officer in the Pacific in World War II and had his ship sunk by a Kamikaze off of Lingayen Gulf. While in the Navy, he learned three words that pretty much sum up how to succeed in both peacetime and war (the Marines use this motto, as well).
“Adapt, Adjust, Overcome”
Todd Bowles had a chance to do this yesterday with the game still in doubt but chose to stay with his pregame plans.
Joe asked Bowles after the game why, after rookie outside linebacker YaYa Diaby got a sack and later when the Bucs needed a tough stand to keep the game at a three-point margin late in the first half, did he instead send underwhelming Joe Tryon-Shoyinka on the field.
Bowles told Joe that was Diaby’s assigned rotation.
Well, that sounds reasonable, but what about in-game adjustments?
To the best of Joe’s knowledge, Diaby didn’t see the field again until the fourth quarter. Guess what? He sacked Brock Purdy again.
Yeah, yeah, this is rear-view mirror logic, but there should have been no way JTS should have been on the field for the entire third quarter. Diaby should have been out there. Diaby should have been on the field for the final defensive stand in the first half.
Diaby not getting more snaps probably isn’t why the Bucs lost. But it sure didn’t help.
It’s decisions like this that make Joe wonder if this team is being coached up to reach its potential.
We Know What JTS Is
This isn’t to kill JTS. He’s a good dude who busts his tail, but he just doesn’t have it. He’s not a starting edge rusher in the NFL.
Joe is aware the Bucs have a lot invested in JTS. A first-round pick and first-round money. After 2 1/2 years, it’s clear that JTS not that guy. If he were, then he would have demonstrated it by now. He’s not even effective against the run. Diaby is.
At what point do the Bucs coaches put the team’s needs over hope that JTS turns the corner? Joe is going to guess the Bucs would have a better record in close games with Diaby than with JTS.
Joe did a brief statistical analysis of JTS comparing his first nine games last year to his first nine games this year. The numbers are damn near identical. In other words, JTS is not improving.
Did You See Markees Watts?
Last week Bucs rookie outside linebacker Markees Watts was the talk of some Bucs fans. He debuted and played 11 plays, and made two impact plays. One was a great example of effort and hustle on a screen pass — after he was chipped at the line. He recovered to make the tackle right in front of the Bucs’ bench.
The second impact play was when he hit Tennessee quarterback Will Levis, which resulted in Levis throwing an arm punt picked off by Antoine Winfield.
Last week defensive line coach Kacy Rodgers was absolutely over the moon in his praise of Watts. Rodgers acted as if the Bucs found the next Simeon Rice hiding on Indian Rocks Beach.
Rodgers went on and on and on about Watts.
So in one of the Bucs’ biggest games, where was he yesterday?
So much for Watts being the next Bruce Smith.
Rodgers crowed how great Watts was and that team coaches knew from his first day on a practice field in underwear football (how you can tell a guy is a stud pass rusher in underwear football where you cannot hit anyone seems to be a nice trick to Joe).
Something weird is going on here. Rodgers totally raved about the kid. When he did play he made an impact, no doubt. Yet yesterday to follow up his promising debut, Watts played only three snaps.
So either Rodgers pulled a Charissa Thompson or someone above Rodgers didn’t want Watts on the field. Or perhaps Watts was sick — though that was never mentioned by the Bucs media relations staff.
Joe can’t think of any logical reason why Watts got only three snaps.
Rachaad White A Star Receiving Back
One bright spot for the Bucs this frustrating season has been how running back Rachaad White has turned into one of the best receiving backs in the NFL.
Yes, Joe has been harsh, maybe overly harsh on White for his terrible running and really poor vision as a runner. He’s just the opposite as a receiver.
Joe is quite serious when he types that White is a misplaced slot receiver. White is not afraid to stick his nose into traffic to block and he has excellent hands and is tremendous with the ball after the catch.
As a running back, he’s the pits.
So yesterday White again showed why he needs more targets in the passing game when he totally shook a 49ers defender in the right flat.
How good of a season is White having? Well, he dropped a pass yesterday. Joe thought off the top of his head that may have been his first of the season.
So Joe asked White about that while also mentioning he’s turned into one of the better receiving backs in the league. White told Joe, no, yesterday was not his first drop. He had one earlier in the year.
Still, White’s hands are impressive.
Lavonte David Is Like Vintage Wine
No, Joe is not a wine snot in any way. Joe hates wine (give Joe some good bourbon or gin or Canadian whiskey). Joe doesn’t need to drink overpriced grape juice. That’s what Welch’s is for.
(Yeah, since Joe is near California wine country, Joe tossed that reference out there — not that “this Joe” will ever go to wine country.)
Man, Lavonte David is just playing games with Father Time. David will turn 34 in January. He’s playing like a 24-year old.
Joe saw 49ers ballcarriers juke Devin White out of his horseshoes yesterday but after the guy got past White, those same moves didn’t work on David. No sir. Down you go!
David was all over the field yesterday. He is such a stud.
If the Bucs have the Team Glazer loot to either bring back White or David but not both, Joe would pay David in a heartbeat. Sure, he doesn’t have much time left. But he’s still balling out and is the consummate pro.
Odd San Jose Nugget: Joe flies into San Jose and stays there when the Bucs travel to play the 49ers. Levi’s Stadium is only about eight miles away (the stadium is roughly 45 miles south of San Francisco). A billboard near Joe’s hotel on the way to the stadium Sunday morning advertised a Vietnamese community gathering, “Celebrating Tet Festival.” How many vets spiraled into a PTSD episode because of that billboard?
Odd San Jose Nugget II: Joe ate at a high-end steakhouse a block from his hotel. Good grub. It better have been for the price. Joe was pleasantly shocked to order a soft drink and the drink was delivered with a plastic straw! In Northern California! Right in the heart of Silicon Valley,, no less! (No, Joe is not going to mention the name of the eatery because the State of California might pull their license as a result.) Paper straws suck, man.
November 20th, 2023 at 4:08 am
Never any mention of baker being horrible on deep throws and inaccurate more than half of his attempts. Bakey can do no wrong in Joe land
November 20th, 2023 at 4:55 am
This time Joe you could have made a “only one thing” post: after 5 years under Todd Bowles our D cannot cover, tackle, have the right personnel on the field, adapt a game plan in-game, do what is requested from the players (according to Todd himself)… so, the “only one thing” is overrated Todd Bowles. That’s all!
November 20th, 2023 at 4:57 am
Watts assigned rotation was to not rotate.
November 20th, 2023 at 5:32 am
Lets get a dose of reality. we’ve lost to the Lions, 49ers, and Eagles. But unlike the DET and PHI game, NOW in week 11, the offense is coming together…., so Bucs are not that far away from being a decent team. But we need a couple more players on both sides of the line. THATS where the investment needs to be made. and a running back. OL, DL, ,RB If you go out and get that in the offseason, you should see an 11-7 Bucs team. If you want to replace Baker, ask yourself, how many teams would love to have Baker right now?
November 20th, 2023 at 5:38 am
Todd Bowles = Todd Blows
November 20th, 2023 at 6:20 am
JTS is not a backup edge rusher either. Why not mention Logan Hall? Just 3 sacks in 26 games is less than the 11 JTS has in 44. Neither has ever forced a fumble. Bad picks at #32 and #33 the GM.
November 20th, 2023 at 6:28 am
Nick Houllis: vOffense coming together? What again? Not far away from being a decent team? What is decent? You think 11-7 is an aspiration? How many teams would want Baker right now? How about none?
Facts: Offense is a disaster. This is far from a decent team because the entire coaching staff is bad. The players are unmotivated. Baker is doing his best, but he is not Top 10 and never will be.
Completely pathetic game. Nothing positive to say. Other than Bowles is one step closer to bye bye bye.
November 20th, 2023 at 6:42 am
On any other team, Yaya is in the conversation for defense of rookie of the year because he will be playing 75% of the defensive snaps and getting results. He could be a 10 sack guy, but Bowles can’t adapt.
November 20th, 2023 at 6:53 am
It must be killing a lot of you fake fans knowing that Baker, despite operating against an unrelenting SF rush, played a very good game yesterday. I saw one sure TD dropped in the end zone, and another that his receiver should’ve held on to. As a matter of fact, I saw a third TD that he might of had if his receiver didn’t start to stumble after his catch. So yeah, I thought that Baker played well yesterday against a top three defense. Seven more games to play!
November 20th, 2023 at 7:02 am
yeah i was going to type that on a thread last night…
i kept thinking to myself while watching the game sunday evening:
“where the f is watts ?!?”
this todd bowles guy is really something else – how’s he gonna have watts ride the pine like that after touting him as a dude we’ve all been sleeping on…
or yaya sitting the whole 3rd quarter…some things just aren’t even making sense
November 20th, 2023 at 7:07 am
i think baker is getting a bit frustrated at this point as well…
he’s def missing a few pieces in the offense to make him more successful…
– a solid rb besides white
– a solid 3rd receiver (like a marvin harrison jr)
– another tight end that’s nfl ready to pair with otton
baker is kinda hangin’ tough tho – no one can say he isn’t…
dude just keeps hanging in there and battling
November 20th, 2023 at 7:07 am
The most important player on the field leads the Bucs to a paltry 7 points in 3 quarters but no mention of him in Joe’s “5 Things”. Same as it ever was.
November 20th, 2023 at 7:10 am
OklahomaSoonerBakerBoiJoe Says: “Baker played a very good game yesterday.”
I agree. 7 points in 3 quarters convinced me he is our franchise quarterback, baby! Cut Trask! Cut Wolford! Baki be ‘da man!
November 20th, 2023 at 7:11 am
Baker plays with attitude that’s hard not to like, but he had a rocky start in the first possession with errant deep throws. Canales needs to call high percentage plays that will move the chains early. If you want to win ,the next best opportunity to get ahead or catch up is the first possession of the third quarter.
We rarely take advantage of these opportunities in spite of the fact that the defense usually keeps the game close in the early part of the game as they did in this game. Canales needs to fix the slow starts at the start of halves with better play calling and Baker needs to execute better at key parts of games.
The main reason Baker gets 50 attempts we are usually playing from behind.
November 20th, 2023 at 7:22 am
It’s time to face the music. The hype failed. The moxy didn’t do diddly. This experiment is over. To quote Rod Munch, it’s time to “Just move on and see what is in box 2.”
However, as they dance around the failure that is Baker Mayfield with their endless excuses, I detect a palpable fear in Joe, Ira, and others to see what our 6’5″ second-round quarterback can do with the starting offense in a game. It’s almost like they have their credibility on the line or something! Oh . . . wait.
November 20th, 2023 at 7:27 am
Start Trask and throw the damn ball.
November 20th, 2023 at 7:27 am
Baker did have some passes dropped, that’s true. It’s also true both teams had those drops. Baker didn’t see their MLB all day. He had two right in his hands. Baker is what he is, a below .500 QB. We will be looking for a new face of the franchise in a QB rich draft. The fact we only have Trask under contract for one more year makes it happen. Who will be coaching, and picking that QB? Hopefully not Licht, and Bowles.
November 20th, 2023 at 7:36 am
I will say it one final time for this year……
Boy i cant watch anymore our pass coverage. I just cant.
I know pass rush and coverage work together and that we dont have consistent pass rush.
But i cant watch our coverage anymore.
If you watch again the long pass that D.Samuel caught at the time of the catch there was no Bucs defender shown in the TV monitor. Receivers are open constantly with the closest defender 5 yards off or more. I can understand that the DBs will get beat some times like the long TD that Dean was beaten. Its a bad play but it happens. But i cant understand why receivers are running around catching passes most of the game without a defender next to them.
Its ridiculous.
Go Bucs
November 20th, 2023 at 7:42 am
Really curious to see how some of our underperformers react to a new staff, hopefully sooner than later.
November 20th, 2023 at 7:59 am
Lol Adam! All we need as a 3rd receiver is a generational talent like Marvin Harrison Jr. He will be a top 3 pick in the draft so probably won’t be able get him.
November 20th, 2023 at 8:05 am
All you Baker haters keep forgetting that the offensive line is not the best. I would like to see how you would do in his situation. He is what he is and if he had the right coaching plays called you guys would be praising him.
November 20th, 2023 at 8:06 am
People really worried about our QB play while the other teams QB has a “perfect” day? Maybe we should try to keep the other QB from being “perfect ” that would be the place to start as far as I can tell.
November 20th, 2023 at 8:07 am
It must be killing all the bakey riders… the fact that he can only scrape by the worst teams in the league… only gets his second score of the game in garbage time most games… the same cleveland team that dumped him is 7-3 with the water boy suited up as their QB half the time. Yeah all the bakey riders have to make excuses for him 6 out of 10 games so far… but boy when he beats the panthers watch out… we’ll be hearing hall of fame talks lmao. Journeyman midfield brings nothing but mediocrity… but we already knew that going in.
November 20th, 2023 at 8:12 am
Why do you even need a straw? Drink from the cup like a man!
November 20th, 2023 at 8:14 am
Baker must’ve banged your girl or what
November 20th, 2023 at 8:14 am
Bucs are a below average , average , or slightly above average team depending on who shows up that Sunday and that is what they are. Could Bucs go 5-2 or 4-3 to win the NFC South and get one home playoff game? I suppose anything is possible. Glazers will have to take a long hard look at their team at seasons end and decide if they want to continue the trajectory they are on.
There are a ton of winnable games on the remaining schedule. There are no unwinnable games. Should the Bucs fail to win at least 8 games , mightily underachieving they are.
Failure to win 8 games should bring about wholesale changes in the organization starting with parking the Brinks truck in front of Jim Harbaughs’ house and asking him to jump on board. Harbaugh will lead the Bucs to immediate contender as he did with SF with his Wolverine QB McCarthy leading the way. Fire Licht and promote Greenberg.
November 20th, 2023 at 8:16 am
@ShakeandBaker:
don’t laugh dude…
i hope we draft him…
yet if drafted, at the start of next season he will still be listed as our 3rd receiver on the depth chart behind mike and chris (if they’re both still here)…and until he proves his worth, he doesn’t climb the depth chart…
remember there were a mess of receivers a few years ago picked before generational talent justin jefferson was drafted by the vikes…some are average, some are good, some are great, some are out of the league…it’s a dice roll my dude
November 20th, 2023 at 8:17 am
BTW, Joe. You cried from the mountain top that the Bucs should have traded for a RB before the deadline. I would bet money Licht fielded calls from teams trying to acquire Rachaad White. You know, from teams that know how to run block and know he’s being wasted in TB.
November 20th, 2023 at 8:17 am
Boomer straw takes. Right wing comedy is always trash, stick to football.
November 20th, 2023 at 8:24 am
@TampaBayBucsFanSince1976:
i’m gonna say we are in the average catagory…
my definition of the average catagory is the 4-6 to 6-4 teams or the 5-5 teams…
if we drop the colts game and fall to 4-7, at that point we are falling into the lower tier of teams, just floating just above the bottom feeders…
at that point sh!t might hit the fan because it’s a long road back to .500 when 3 games under…
and all of a sudden trask might become an option to start against a weak carolina team at ray jay the following week…
let’s just hope it doesn’t get to that and we beat the colts and climb back to .500 at home vs carolina…with the division title still in view
November 20th, 2023 at 8:27 am
So yesterday White again showed why he needs more targets in the passing game when he totally shook a 49ers defender in the right flat.
He juked Hufanga so bad he made the man tear his ACL.
November 20th, 2023 at 8:31 am
Some great comments. Baker did play a reasonably good game. Passed for his season average (64.4%); did terrible on deep throws (3-for-10 and the misses weren’t all that close), only fumbled once & threw 1 INT (although it could’ve easily been 4 INTs). So Baker ended up 29-for-45; 3-for-10 deep (30%) and 26-for-35 short (74.3%). MAYBE we shouldn’t be wasting precious downs on so many deep passes (pick our shots better?).
And there-in lies our biggest problem offensively IMO … play selection & play design. THAT’S on coaching. Canales needs to be more patient & also recognize that certain plays achieve nothing more than waste precious downs. We’re ending up in far too many 3rd-and-longs, and those end up being drive-killers far too often.
November 20th, 2023 at 8:34 am
Win 8 games or else……………..
November 20th, 2023 at 8:35 am
I like the weekly 5 things. Problem is that there are a lot more things. The main thing is HC/DC. He is right now working on how to keep it close and lose to the 5-5 Colts. Can he engineer a loss as great as the Texans loss? Stanks will prolly beat Falcons if he can lose to Colts that should end the division title optimism. An accidental win and the suspense will continue with a math chance to win this awful NFC South and get embarrassed in the wild card game like last year.
November 20th, 2023 at 8:39 am
Bad coaching can take decent [players and produce a lower-mid 1/3 result.
Bill Parcells is famous for “your record is what you are.”
Someone tell me what Bowles career record is…because that is what this team is.
November 20th, 2023 at 8:43 am
Good takes. I thought Baker showed he’s not Super Bowl caliber. The long-ball was a real problem yesterday. He passed up going for 1st downs in the red zone (lack of understanding). He throw into double and triple coverage during critical downs.
November 20th, 2023 at 8:55 am
Baker’s long ball wasn’t just a problem yesterday. It’s been a problem all year.
November 20th, 2023 at 9:23 am
baker’s long ball has gotten worse at the season has wore on…
they gotta work on that…
and getting some balls to godwin…long too
November 20th, 2023 at 10:17 am
Mayfield could be a good qb with playaction run game. But he can’t sit in pocket and pick teams apart at his height. Just we can’t run and no defense even needs to play the run.
November 20th, 2023 at 10:29 am
it worries me that the GM may be telling the coaching staff who to play or not play…I mean, he’s got to show how great of a drafter he is…let the young up and comers play next year (maybe)…The Glazers have to make a decision – stay mediocre and compete in a bad division or blow it up and reset…try to actually build a team that can compete.
Go Bucs!
November 20th, 2023 at 11:17 am
5 things..For next years draft and trade market.
A great D lineman from somewhere, A good O lineman from somewhere, A breakout RB, A lockdown safety, And a rookie QB to start grooming.
November 20th, 2023 at 11:24 am
Seattle
Do you think the Bucs are winning yesterday’s game with Kyle Trask starting at QB? Yes or no.
November 20th, 2023 at 11:37 am
Bucs have the 30th ranked run blocking offensive line yet Joe solely blames the running backs for the run game struggles… It’s probably the running backs fault that our defense can’t stop a pass too, right?
November 20th, 2023 at 12:22 pm
Tbbucs3 Says: “Seattle, do you think the Bucs are winning yesterday’s game with Kyle Trask starting at QB? Yes or no.”
Of course not. However, we wouldn’t have beat the 49ers with Tom Brady either.
You just don’t get it. You fail to see the forest for the trees. I’m thinking long game; you’re thinking short game – “I’m a Seminole through and through and hate all Gators and want anyone but a Gator quarterbacking my Bucs yessiree!”
The long game is this. . .
Baker Mayfield is a journeyman bust, on his 4th team in 6 seasons, who is not taking the Bucs anywhere except maybe – MAYBE – to a one-and-done playoff embarrassment and an NFC South Champions t-shirt.
Kyle Trask, on the other hand, was a Bucs second-round pick; is in his 3rd season with the Bucs; the Bucs have never – NEVER – let him play with the starting offense in a game, not even in a preseason game; is 6’5″ (plus 1/8″); excelled in running a pass-oriented offense that had no running game for two seasons in the SEC when every opposing team knew he was throwing.
So, I’d like to see what Trask can do with the starting offense in game situations – something no one has seen to date. This wasted season is perfect for that. If he looks good, great, maybe we have a franchise quarterback on our team. If he flops, great, we know we MUST draft a quarterback with our first pick in the 2024 draft.
Any Bucs fan who is against this is not a Bucs fan. Rather, he’s an FSU fan. Or, he’s devoted years to criticizing Trask and fears what Trask might do if given the chance.
November 20th, 2023 at 12:27 pm
That’s not the point. The point was it was served with a plastic straw. In Northern California. The anti-plastic capital of the world.
Joe rarely uses straws. But at the moment he gladly took the offering. It was sort of like giving the finger to the “plastic straws will kill the world crowd.”
November 20th, 2023 at 12:30 pm
If you have to have a dominant oline for a player to get more than three yards a carry, the problem ain’t the oline. Besides, it would help White significantly to take advantages of holes that are there. Joes sees this way too often. But go ahead with your lazy inaccurate analysis 👍
November 20th, 2023 at 12:32 pm
Ranked by who?
November 20th, 2023 at 12:42 pm
Defense Rules Says:
Some great comments. Baker did play a reasonably good game. Passed for his season average (64.4%); did terrible on deep throws (3-for-10 and the misses weren’t all that close)
———
Two things on that
1) I haven’t reviewed the film of yesterday yet but in the past the claim that receivers are open all over the field in these comment sections hasn’t panned out . It s usually someone watching the receivers and saying – “there there! he has separation”. However that’s not being open in NFL QB standards. The separation has to be substantial and positioning of such thar the receiver will be open the 2-3 seconds it takes the ball to be there. IF not you end up with a pick
I’ve even seen people here crying – there he was open – while back in the pccket Baker was running for his life. Relly geniuses? you expect a Qb to hit the open guy while he is spinning to avoid a defender flattening him?
2. Real life matters. I expect and would advise Baker to put the ball substantially in most plays where it will not be picked and if thats some over throws – then go for it Bake. WHy? We got him on a one year contract. a low one at that . the number one tick againsts Baker was picks last year. He and his agent are on the same page – erase that – don’t jeopardize that …. check down rather than the hero ball and if you loft it make sure its usually with room for error. Its not all about the bucs this year but your future.
I see people wanting him to stand flat footed and calmly wait and throw the perfect long ball even if he gets levelled in the process. His wife and agent probably call bloody murder for the risk he already takes on a one year contract. Frankly I can’t believe some of the things he has done and taken on a one year contract.
November 20th, 2023 at 1:37 pm
My wife laughed at your San Jose Tidbit.. The Tet Celebration is just New Years party (Asian of course).
Named the TET Offensive as for what time of year it took place.
Bucs played well, and if the refs called those penalties correctly, it might have been different.
November 20th, 2023 at 2:13 pm
im not a jts fan and dont like him not playing the covid year, but with draft picks and other things, sometimes you better take two, you dont know which one will work out. people went nuts when mike shanahan picked RGIII and kirk cousins, i know there was something else about it that the newspaper didnt like, but you just dont know on any player, even #1 overall
November 20th, 2023 at 2:21 pm
Yes! Part of the reason the element of surprise was nearly pulled off by the NVA/VC was this was done using Tet as sort of a cover, and also knowing the South Vietnamese would let their guard down a little for the holiday.
It was a very clever piece of strategy.
November 20th, 2023 at 2:22 pm
November 20th, 2023 at 2:23 pm
LOL The “win-rate?”
November 20th, 2023 at 2:31 pm
Bowles is awful.
He is awful at in game adjustments, time management, personnel decisions and his defensive game plans are ridiculously easy to diagnose by opposing NFL coaches.
November 20th, 2023 at 2:55 pm
Of course. What other metric would you like to use?
I don’t see these huge gaping holes being opened all game, and our running backs simply missing them, do you? Maybe a few here or there, but for the most part our interior 3 and our tight ends just get thrown around in the run game. There’s no push.
I don’t think R White is a special running back by any means either, but this is not just a RB problem. It’s a blocking problem too.
November 20th, 2023 at 8:06 pm
Not all game. Some more than others. Think it was Atlanta game half the press box was looking at each other trying to figure out why White wasn’t taking advantage of holes.
Canales twice just off top of head has stated run blocking has been adequate or “good enough” for better production on the ground.
November 21st, 2023 at 9:54 am
why in gods green earth r post on this site from jokers like Seattle bucs says & so many other jokers on this site we all know u r here just to satisfy u r immature propaganda on a bunch of true fans stay the F.O. this site go bother u r wife oh she doesn’t want u either that’s why u r here get a job stop collecting welfare.love BAKER he is top tier pal u wud not know top tier even if he smashed u r ugly face in
November 21st, 2023 at 10:10 am
Baker threw in to double & triple coverage cause 9er’s cover very good all I saw was wide open for purdy no man coverage I think we were picking our nose to often.trask wud get us know where with his so called exceptional height advantage@ a whopping 6’3″” I wish have loved to see him take that bosa& warner fumble from baker & get up to do another play as a matter of fact I would like to c 100% of QB take that wack & get up & do the next play I would bet 95% wud have went into concussion tent