Bucs Offense Simply Is Not Successful
November 19th, 2023
Bucs RB Sneak Vaughn.
Look, Joe really, really likes Bucs offensive coordinator Dave Canales. It’s just that Joe has a stark difference in philosophy.
Joe is the kind of guy who believes a strong offensive coordinator looks at the available talent, their abilities and their strengths, and molds an offense around those attributes.
Canales believes in running the ball, preferably between the tackles. He has even said in the past that if things aren’t working well, you have to be stubborn because sooner or later the successful runs will come.
Well, adhering to that philosophy very well could knock the Bucs out of the playoffs.
Anyone with an open mind can see with a quick 60-second bit of research on DuckDuckGo that the Bucs haven’t been a decent running team since 2021, when they ranked 15th in yards per carry. In fact, they have been horrible running the ball last year and this year.
This desire to run the ball no matter what has turned the Bucs into one of the least successful offenses in the NFL.
Per Rich Hribar of Sharp Football Analysis, the success rate between the 49ers and the Bucs is wide.
San Francisco leads the NFL in offensive success rate at 49.1 percent.
Tampa Bay is 31st in the NFL in offensive success rate at 36.0 percent.
For those unaware what “success rate” is, it is when an offense gains at least 50 percent of yards needed for a first down on first down; 70 percent of yards to gain a first down on second down and 100 percent of yards to gain for a first down on third or fourth down.
Joe really doesn’t know why with Mike Evans and Chris Godwin running the ball is such a focus when it’s not successful.
If that stat holds through the end of the regular season, it will be the worst running attack since the 2000 Chargers who ran for 3.0 yards a carry. Is there some special magic Joe is unaware of in setting up your offense for third-and-longs?
Points scored is the most important statistic, Joe has always believed, not winning the turnover battle or rushing attempts. It’s hard to score points when your offense is, well, not successful.
November 19th, 2023 at 1:14 am
3rd worst run blocking in the league.. Center, and guard is an issue. Yes Vaughan is terrible. But doesn’t help when your center and guard can’t open holes, and they get pushed back into the backfield almost every play.
November 19th, 2023 at 1:19 am
Either Canales is being told to run the ball by Bowles, since Bowles has said numerous times he wants a run fiirst and heavy offense, or Canales just knows what he knows and is learning as he goes. I think there is some learning going on, but I still get this feeling Bowles is still making the call here. What always blows my mind is Bowles contrasting offensive philosophy to Arians. Arians has always had great success, so you would think Bowles would replicate that success, since the only seasons he has had success is with Arians and his offense.
November 19th, 2023 at 1:30 am
The only thing “sneaky” about Keyshawn Vaughn is how he got into the 53 man roster. And Todd Bowles is the 🤡 who decided for the Bucs to be a “keep running the ball even if it doesn’t work” football team. Super Bowl winning offensive coordinator Byron Leftwich and misplaced offensive coordinator Dave Canales are scapegoats
November 19th, 2023 at 1:52 am
Stubbornness is a TERRIBLE quality in a coach of any sport (Phil Jackson triangle offense for the Knicks anyone?). It’s one thing if a team is going to go out and impose their will on the other team. We’re gonna tell you what we’re gonna do and let’s see you try and stop it. That is CLEARLY not something the Bucs Oline & RBs (let’s not forget TEs) are capable of doing. So instead we’re stubborn for the sake of being stubborn, and we see the results. I just don’t understand the philosophy; even if the run game suddenly started to pop, how good would it have to be to drag a half seasons’ worth of 3.1 ypc to something respectable? If you figure equal rushes the back (little less than) half of the season, we’d need to average 5 ypc the rest of the season (only 1 team in the league is currently averaging 5 or more ypc BTW) just to drag our full season’s average up to 4 ypc which is only middle of the pack anyhow! That’s like spending your rent money on the lottery every month for 2 years, finally winning, only for the prize to be $100. That’s not winning coaching, period. I have to believe Canales knows better and is just spewing the company line that got him the job to begin with. However this season will always be on his resume and only a complete fool would tie himself to bowles (his OCs have not fared too well afterwards). It’s all too clear now, bowles is irredeemable. He’s not gonna be cajoled or shamed into changing his ways. He has to be fired. I would prefer now, but I know it’s unlikely. I figure the Glazers think “if we’re gonna have a crappy season no matter what, might as well get better draft position and let bowles keep whatever dignity he thinks he has left.” So be it. As long as he’s not coaching the team next season, ESPECIALLY when we draft a potential franchise QB.
#FIREbowles
November 19th, 2023 at 2:11 am
Football is not complicated. If you win the line of scrimmage, you win most of your games. Turnovers are the exception to the rule.
Controlling line of Scrimmage = Good running game
Controlling line of Scrimmage = Time to Throw
Controlling the Line of Scrimmage means = SUCCESSFUL OFFENSE
WORST RUSHING IN THE LEAGUE AND ONE OF THE WORST SINCE THE MERGER IN 1970
Until they begin to control the line of scrimmage, they will not be relevant.
Second problem is Baker is just good enough to get you beat.
Good Teamate, plays with guts but that still equals more losses than wins.
He just is not accurate, just forget about deep passes.
Another hard game to watch this week….49ers 35-13 win 😒 💩💩💩💩💩
November 19th, 2023 at 2:22 am
All good points. I belive Leftwich and now Canales are doing what told to do, by T.B. they mirror each other.
I wonder which heads,from players to coaches roll at the end of season.
Its hard to be successful when you are told what play to do, it’s easy when it fails, blame it on the players
November 19th, 2023 at 3:23 am
All good points Joe. Perhaps that is why the niners gave up a lot to get CMC when they got the chance. A good balanced running and passing game sure can help the win rate on a team in the nfl. One dimensional teams are just that, and can be easier to defend.
November 19th, 2023 at 5:13 am
This running sh!t has gotten to point of insanity! I don’t even know what to say anymore.
November 19th, 2023 at 6:09 am
Confido75 … ‘I think there is some learning going on, but I still get this feeling Bowles is still making the call here. What always blows my mind is Bowles contrasting offensive philosophy to Arians.’
I think the major difference between Arians & Bowles is the quality of the talent available to each. Folks seem to forget that BA went 7-9 in 2019 when he was missing that ‘quality talent’. Enter Brady, Gronk, Brown, Fournette & Wirfs in 2020 and voila … we have a winner. BA didn’t change; his attack philosophy didn’t change; the talent that he had available to make it work changed.
Bowles isn’t running the offensive show IMO; Canales is, but they share a common philosophy (thus why Bowles hired him?). Don’t forget that with Brady last year (but a LOT less talent around him than he had in 2020 & 2021), Brady set a RECORD for the MOST PASSES attempted by any QB in a season (733). Bowles & Leftwich tried to air it out, and that approach failed miserably. Now, with even LESS offensive talent, everyone is on his case because this offense is trying to compensate by running more. Our problem isn’t in what Canales WANTS to do; our problem is that we don’t have the talent to do it effectively.
And when that happens, smart OCs move on to Plan B. It’s taken us awhile, but I’m convinced we’ll take to the air more, yet still run the ball (albeit more selectively). He’s learning (slowly) what works and what doesn’t work, but there’ve been some brutal lessons involved.
Bucs’ coaching situation reminds me of something Sir Winston Churchill supposedly said about us Americans in WWII … “You can always depend on the Americans to do the right thing, AFTER they’ve tried everything else’.
November 19th, 2023 at 6:52 am
Please, no more pictures of Vaughn, I’m trying to forget he’s somehow in the NFL. He’s the Jaelon Darden of RB’s, and that’s not a good thing to be.
November 19th, 2023 at 7:14 am
When the Offense looks the same as the year before with two totally different coordinators you have to look at the head coach.
November 19th, 2023 at 7:19 am
It’s Bowles obsession with clock management, his defense gets exposed in the later part of the game. Bowles focuses on how his defense is performing vs playing to win games. It’s a flawed perspective in a league designed to favor offenses.
November 19th, 2023 at 7:46 am
So what changed from our decent running game in 2021 to 2022 and this year? Sure, Bowles became HC BUT we lost a few key pieces on the line. Ali Marpet retired, we lost Cappa to the Bengals and Jensen got hurt. Still don’t think the o-line is a major contributor to our running futility over the past 2 seasons? Joe loves to call our RBs “trash” and give the line a pass but please tell me if anyone thinks the guys we have that replaced the 3 guys we lost are equal in talent. I’ll wait.
As for Brady’s 733 attempts last year, the combination of no running game and always playing from behind (often WAY behind) was more out of desperation than abandoning “balance”. And being forced to be one-dimenional coupled with constant pressure on the QB, of course it failed. While the Bucs only gave up a league-best 22 sacks, Brady was under pressure the most according to a stat website but still had a 9th-best completion % while under pressure. If not for his quick reads and quick release, the sacks would have been much, much higher.
We’re in the exact same situation this year except it’s Baker’s legs keeping the sack totals down. The running game won’t magically “fix itself” by constant repetition. You need to change things and since we can’t change much in the way of personnel, it has to be a change in scheme, design and substituting screens, sweeps, etc in place of a traditional running game.
I read a great book a few years back. Can’t remember the title but in it were interviews with some of the great offensive line coaches in the NFL. Dante Scarnecchia (Patriots), Joe Bugel (Redskins…of Hawgs and counter-trey fame), and others. In the book they talked about linemen needing good spacing in order to move the men they’re blocking laterally to be able to maintain momentum instead of being tightly grouped like eggs in an egg carton where their lateral movement in hindered, thus losing any momentum because they hit 600 lbs of man meat beside them, creating a wall and not a window. One said that lateral blocking or “steering” the defender was akin to holding a piece of cardboard in front of your eyes to block the sun. Push the cardboard straight away from you and it’s still blocking the sun. Slide it sideways and viola! Now there’s daylight. Like a parting of the clouds.
Our linemen are more athletic than they are powerful (on the inside that is). No reason they should be asked to plow straight ahead when they can move laterally and use the defensive lineman’s momentum against him. The coaches interviewed for the book had a combined 2 centuries of experience to draw from. If I can find it maybe I’ll order a few copies on Amazon and send them to Canales and Co. Lol
November 19th, 2023 at 8:02 am
If you hit the square peg hard enough and often enough, it’ll eventually fit in the round hole.
Does that pretty much sum up our run game philosophy?
November 19th, 2023 at 8:44 am
But I thought it was all those victory formation kneel downs making the Bucs so ineffective????
November 19th, 2023 at 9:06 am
Kind of amusing how the only thing bucs fans can agree on is that the o line and running game suck. And then half (more than half on this site) in the same breath will say how bad of a QB Baker is despite putting up very solid numbers against defenses who don’t need to defend against the the run and have no trouble pressuring. And funnier still are those who think the bucs would be better off with Trask starting behind this O line with zero experience because he had a good camp while wearing a red jersey.
November 19th, 2023 at 9:08 am
Brady stunk and should have retired before last season. Trask would have played, and he couldn’t do any worse. The salary cap sure has throttled us, but we got a Stupid Bowl out of it. Draft a fullback. Bucs could use one.
November 19th, 2023 at 9:14 am
Today’s not the day to continue being stubborn Dave.
November 19th, 2023 at 9:19 am
Joe keeps pushing for airing it out but wants the midget at quarterback and not the 6’5″+ guy on the bench who spent two seasons doing nothing but airing it out in the SEC. Worse, Joe is hunky-dory with not even one down with the starters for that guy in any game – not even preseason – in 2.5+ seasons. 🤔
November 19th, 2023 at 9:20 am
Being stubborn and failing to adapt should get you fired.
November 19th, 2023 at 9:23 am
Capt2fish Says: “And funnier still are those who think the bucs would be better off with Trask starting behind this O line with zero experience because he had a good camp while wearing a red jersey.”
Funnier still you are fine with Baker being gifted the starting job despite being outplayed by Trask in training camp while both were wearing red jerseys. LMAO.
November 19th, 2023 at 9:34 am
It’s called real game experience. Baker took a team to the playoffs. Trask brought Brady and gabbert juice boxes. I wonder why teams like MIN and the jets weren’t knocking down our GMs door to try and trade for Trask after his epic camp? Because nobody is going to turn over the keys to a kid who’s career stat line is 3 of 9 for 18 yards unless it’s an emergency.
November 19th, 2023 at 9:39 am
Seattle Buc: Are you Kyle Trask? If not Trask himself, are you his Mom? Agent? What has he done in the pros to make you hug his nuts so hard? Because he was good in college? Mayfield was better in college than Trask, well, he won a Heisman Trophy, anyway.
November 19th, 2023 at 9:47 am
Capt2fish Says: “It’s called real game experience…. I wonder why teams like MIN and the jets weren’t knocking down our GMs door to try and trade for Trask after his epic camp?”
LOL. You have the answer to your own question but you’re too dense to realize it: “It’s called real game experience.” Trask has ZERO “real game experience” as he has never played in a game with the starting offense, not even in preseason.
Why don’t you go out and find a single team that has ever knocked on another team’s doors for a quarterback who has never played in a game with the starting offense, not even in preseason? Waiting for your answer. . . .
By the way, Skippy, how long have you been a Gator-hating Seminole fan?
November 19th, 2023 at 9:50 am
@Joe in Michigan
“The ad hominem is the refuge of the feeble mind.”
That’s Joey for you. Unable to respond to fact-based arguments so he resorts to name-calling. Sad.
November 19th, 2023 at 9:51 am
@Joe in Michigan
“The ad hominem is the refuge of the feeble mind.”
That’s Joey for you. Unable to respond to fact-based arguments so he resorts to name-calling. Sad.
November 19th, 2023 at 9:53 am
🤦♂️ You give up the run completely these types of plays becomes ineffective or obsolete:
Play action in the pocket
Play action rollout
Trick plays
Deep passes due to safeties and linebackers not respecting the run
5-10 yards passes will be very difficult to complete
The entire defense
“The run set up the passes. The passes set up the run.” Both the run and passes needs to be executed correctly to stay on or ahead of schedule for the downs and distance.
It’s not always the OC fault. Sometimes it on the players for not executing the plays giving to them. Their lack of execution severely change the OC assessment of what play to call when the lack of execution of similar plays are available.
(I.E.) The last deep pass was completely missed due to qb not having time to throw, completely missed the read, or an incomplete. Therefore, few deep passes will be called in the future. But, if the opposite result happened, then more deep passes are in the queue.
Every play results affect play calling and all players on offense, defense, and special team. A defense that stopped or forced a field goal on a 10 plays 5 minutes drive shouldn’t expect to be rested at a quick three and out. They not had time to talk strategies and potential counters from the prior drive. Key players are too tired to return immediately, which can result in big plays happening.
But, we should stop running the ball. lol
November 19th, 2023 at 9:59 am
Joe in Michigan: Are you Baker Mayfield? If not Mayfield himself, are you his Mom? Agent? What has he done in the pros to make you hug his nuts so hard? Because he won a Heisman Trophy like Jameis Winston?
November 19th, 2023 at 10:02 am
The real problem with our run game are running backs being too stubborn with sticking to the play. They refuse to take the open field a gap or two from the designed play. There are opening many times not taking.
November 19th, 2023 at 10:18 am
Let’s be clear! Tom Brady, was not only the Bucs quarterback, but he was also the head coach, OrlBucfan, there would be no Tampa Bay Buc Super Bowl with out Mr Brady! Tom brought his knowledge and work ethic to Tampa, & the entire team followed suit! Tom would not accept anything less than perfection, from himself or the rest of the team ! So maybe Bowles, need to replay that season and make a blueprint! PS Trask has potential but I don’t think he’s “That guy,” PSS How bout the Bucs stop trying to build a championship team, with out spending the money for championship players!
November 19th, 2023 at 11:19 am
That Addison guy must suck, he’s on his 3rd team this season!
November 19th, 2023 at 1:06 pm
SeattleBuc Says:
You have the answer to your own question but you’re too dense to realize it: “It’s called real game experience.” Trask has ZERO
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and there you have it. The debunking of your whole argument but you are the one too dense to realize it.
Its the NFL. You get real game experience when the coach determines you can play in a real game . This utter fairy tale nonsense that a qb especially one not drafted in the first round has the right to start several games is just silly desperation stuff from Kyle man crushers.
Besides all your non stop daily typing and whining – notice Kyle starting yet?
As the Human Torch might say – Fume on. You have no say
Kyle hopefully has done his job and is ready as he can be for his role on the team Coming OFF THE BENCH. IF he is ready good for him. Go Kyle! Practice and coming off the bench is how QBs get a shot – not by blog commenters begging and crying like a sad 7 year old girl every single day
November 19th, 2023 at 2:00 pm
SeattleBuc: Mayfield has started games in the NFL, started playoff games. Heck, he even beat out Kyle Trask for a starting job. That has to mean something, right, since you think Trask is SO great?
November 19th, 2023 at 2:01 pm
P.S.: I’m not a Mayfield fan, I just realize he’s a better option than Trask at this point…It sure seems like the Bucs agree.
November 19th, 2023 at 2:02 pm
The reason the bucs aren’t throwing more to Evans and Godwin is because Mayfield isn’t getting them the ball when their # is called. It’s as simple as that. Canales is calling a game Mayfield can’t deliver against average to good defenses.
November 19th, 2023 at 2:29 pm
Joe from Michigan. If Baker Mayfield beat out Kyle Trask because he preform better than yes Baker Mayfield should be the starter. But we all read the reports from different bucs media in training camp. Baker Mayfield had 9 ints to Kyle Trask 1 pick when both was practicing with the starters. Baker Mayfield was gifted the starting job he didn’t earn the starting job. He was told he was going to be the starter when they sing him . That’s why even though Kyle Trask was playing better than him he came out and said I’m ready for them to name the staring quarterback even though Kyle was playing better. They sold Baker Mayfield to fans like you and others to sale tickets by lieing about a quarterback competition. They didn’t expect Kyle Trask to out play Baker Mayfield but he did. So Baker Mayfield is the starter because of his popularity and fans like you and others only care about the name on back of the jersey more than in front of the jersey. They sold y’all a name and y’all fell for it. Some of us just didn’t fall for their game the Glazers and Jason Lisht sold.
November 19th, 2023 at 2:36 pm
Oneilbuc: Facts are facts. Mayfield is the starter, Trask is the backup. You can spin it any way you want with excuses, but it still is what it is. I heard every excuse in the book about why Trask was 3rd string behind Gabbert, so please spare me the excuses.
Trask lovers: What team would Trask start for in the NFL? If he did start for said team, which QB would said team draft in the top 5 to replace Trask next year? Trask= Mike Glennon, although Glennon started games in his career.
November 19th, 2023 at 3:00 pm
Wow… the spread here was -11, now it’s -13.5, that means big money is going on the 49ers to blow the Bucs out, biggly.
Would be a HUGE statement win if the Bucs win today, one of the biggest upsets of the year.
All we need is for Bowles to show everyone his greatness and coach the game of his life today!
I hope it happens, but I won’t get my hopes up.
November 19th, 2023 at 3:13 pm
Now this is a fair point:
Bucs have a (rather) new offensive line, a new quarterback and a new OC. What is the same? The No. 1 RB (cough) and the head coach.
November 19th, 2023 at 3:38 pm
Joe from Michigan. Again just because he was gifted the starting job doesn’t mean he should be the starter. It’s a reason why no other team wanted Baker Mayfield but the bucs as a starting quarterback for their team. I don’t know if Trask is good are not but I do know Baker Mayfield is average against bad teams and trash against good teams. One thing I can say is I’ve seen Jamies play good against good teams but I have never seen Baker Mayfield play good yet against a good team rather we win or lose. I’ve seen Ryan Fitzpatrick play good against good teams and yet this whole year Baker hasn’t done nothing against good teams and that’s fact !! And I I’m talking about both of them Jamies and Fitzpatrick had no running game. So don’t I want to hear those excuses for Baker Mayfield.
November 19th, 2023 at 3:43 pm
Joe in Michigan Says:
Trask= Mike Glennon, although Glennon started games in his career.
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though I am supposed to be a Trask hater according to his fanbois I am not writing off trask. He improved last offseason. He made a competition out of it for awhile though yes he lost. its quite within the realm of possibiiity he improves again given his age. We are entirley too rash to write off young Qbs.
Where I disagree withthe cultists is the completley brain dead conspiracy theories and How college means he is a superstar being persecutrd. He needed to improve . Okay he has shown some improvement and his contract is not up this year. So theres No reason to give him starter status as a 2nd round pick. He can earn it by either being ready when his number is called due to an injury or the next offseason.
As a baker fan at this poitn I hardly care – He’s already achieved what his agent wanted and frankly an organization like the rams is a better fit and market for him. Just like I can walk and chew gum at th same time. I could root for Kyle (when he’s earned it) and Baker. NO need for it to be one or the other lke a Traskie.
November 19th, 2023 at 3:48 pm
Oneilbuc Says:
So don’t I want to hear those excuses for Baker Mayfield.
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No one caes what you want to hear. Your guy lost – done. If you have never seem Baker win against a good team thats on you because you have not done your homework.
November 19th, 2023 at 6:32 pm
4th quarter-we are down 27-14. Looks like Baker is allowed to throw down the field now. How long will this last? Hope until we score 3 more times.
November 19th, 2023 at 7:32 pm
I like baker but he cannot throw a accurate deep ball to save his life ! As this season hits the skids let see what Trask can do !! He is better at deep balls and is more accurate in general .