Interesting Stat On Joe Tryon-Shoyinka
September 28th, 2023
Hope?
This is for the pressures-are-better-than-sacks crowd. You know who you are.
Now Joe was very, very critical of Joe Tryon-Shoyinka’s play on Monday night. The way he got fully owned with ease by Eagles right tackle Lane Johnson was disgusting to Joe. And Joe damn near reached the end of his patience with the former first-round draft pick who in two-plus seasons hasn’t reached Gaines Adams-level of play.
(The Bucs had a total of two tackles from their starting outside linebackers Monday night — two! Completely unacceptable! And both came from JTS. No, Joe isn’t going to rag on Bucs sacks king Shaq Barrett because he has massive street cred.)
As former NFL suit Michael Lombardi said recently, “Good players don’t need excuses.”
So Joe was surfing the excellent stat site SIS and Joe noticed a jarring stat about JTS.
Would you believe (said in a Maxwell Smart voice) that JTS is tied for eighth-most pressures for all linebackers? That’s right. JTS has eight pressures (so too does Shaq). That’s tied with, among others, Bradley Chubb, Khalil Mack and Alex Highsmith and one more than Haason Reddick.
Joe is not one to think pressures are better than sacks. Sacks are drive-killers and often gamewreckers. A pressure is just that. It might throw off a quarterback and it might not. A sack is a sack. There is no such thing as an almost-sack.
But Joe knows a lot of folks value pressures. So the fact JTS is putting heat on quarterbacks, even after a dreadful game Monday night, is intriguing. JTS was not credited with a pressure at all against the Eagles.
It’s one thing to get after the quarterback playing a lousy team like the Vikings or Bears (with their quarterback that holds the ball forever). It’s quite another against the Eagles.
The slimy Saints are somewhere in between. Can JTS show up Sunday?
September 28th, 2023 at 3:56 am
No Joe he won’t…he hasn’t for 2 years now.
September 28th, 2023 at 4:00 am
Watched JTS on several plays in Monday night’s game Joe, and what I kept seeing was him getting ridden out of virtually every play. Almost always to the back which screwed up containment on his side of the play. Hurts didn’t always choose to take advantage, but he certainly could have.
What I also kept seeing was a Bucs’ defense that broke down on fundamentals. Contain is a fundamental. So is staying in your gap. The Eagles’ OLine literally owned our defense on far too many plays, and created some gaping holes that any RB could’ve walked through. The only thing that kept the game even remotely manageable is that Hurts had a meh game overall.
September 28th, 2023 at 4:00 am
Doubtful, but we can hope.
But the “ship is sinking” panic going on seems dramatic.
We win, 3-1.
That is a great start. Before the 17 game season, we talked about “winning quarters”.
3-1 is fantastic. Even 2-2 isnt bad.
While I dont have much faith in JTS, i do have faith in Barrett. Plus Winfield brings heat to a QB in the pocket. Even Hall is showing up.
I think Baker can get us another win.
I’ll take it.
September 28th, 2023 at 4:07 am
Oh and BTW, no one’s given any kudos to Greg Gaines for his play Monday night, but he was the only DLineman who impressed me. Got half of the 4 QB pressures we were able to muster on the night plus 3 tackle assists, but looked to constantly be in the play. For some reason we didn’t use him much in Game 1 or 2 (45 def snaps total), but used him more Monday night (42 def snaps), probably because Vea looked to be hurting.
September 28th, 2023 at 4:09 am
I saw him get thrown a few times.
Diaby should start.
JTS only on 3rd down.
September 28th, 2023 at 4:36 am
Every season we wait for JTS to finally make the jump but he fails and disappoints. Still ridden out of plays. Still owned. “Pressure” is when you don’t get there and it is not enough.
September 28th, 2023 at 4:42 am
I agree with Joe. We all saw how how Tryon-stinka got biatch slapped and owned by that Philly tackle. Especially on the run plays. Mr. Stinka looked to me like an old Spanish bull fighter. Ole ole ole ole ole. Problem was he wasn’t hired to wave a cape in front of bulls. Wrong arena. Perhaps he should think about changing professions. Idk
September 28th, 2023 at 4:51 am
Truthfully tho, the Bucs wasted around 40 million dabloons a year on paying those 2 corner backs they have. Me thinks the Bucs would have saved a whole lot of money simply hiring a couple of winos at the corner liquor store as the results would have been similar as monday nites performance imo. What gives paying all that money, for all that failure. Silly me I thought performances determined compensation. Boy, was I mistaken. My bad.
September 28th, 2023 at 4:53 am
In JTS’s case, stats are for losers. The guy is not going to show up against a strong OT, he doesn’t have the strength or skill set. At best he is a backup. Hope Jason realizes that the Bucs need to move on from JTS.
September 28th, 2023 at 5:18 am
JTS looked the same he has since the day he arrived. Get tossed around with ease while he’s flailing around the edge.
JTS us NFG.
September 28th, 2023 at 5:41 am
Monday was a big game and an opportunity for players to make a name. Sapp v. Favre. No helmet style.
No one did. Not one. I don’t give a crap about street cred. No one played well. Ditto for coaching.
But it’s one game. That’s not a trend.
Two consecutive bad games is a trend. So this week is very important. 3-1 is much different than 2-2.
September 28th, 2023 at 5:46 am
And Jamel Dean is a glass figurine. Never seen a guy so always “hurt” like him. Always in pain. Grimacing. Gingerly walking off. That’s when he’s not giving 10 yards of cushion on 3rd and 3.
Of course, he was drafted hurt. So he’s consistently unreliable.
He’s a mistake. Move on from him.
September 28th, 2023 at 6:14 am
They must see it in practice. I can’t believe JTS ever beats Wirfs, and doubt if he fairs better against Goedeke. So they know what he is, what are they going to do about it? I think depending how this week goes will determine who plays more after the bye. Some changes will have to be made if we enter it on a two week slide. Yaya should start.
September 28th, 2023 at 6:22 am
JTS got absolutely man handled on MNF. I swear there was a play that I saw him get tossed like a child. Maybe we can trade him for a half eaten bag of stale peanuts and a fourth grade running back.
September 28th, 2023 at 6:30 am
B U S T
September 28th, 2023 at 6:50 am
I’m done with this guy. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, n quacks like a duck, then it’s a duck. Enough is enough with the excuse. Last year against the bengals he made a bone head play on a potential int, swatted away an under hand pass tossed to him for an easy int. On Monday’s game, Hurts rolled out n threw a pass to the tightend, it was quite obvious that it was not a rpo play, the ball was out n gone and JTS ran after the tighten but for a split second he motioned to go after Hurts when it was obvious that the ball was gone to the tightend. Who does that? Please watch the play. This guy is garbage. He’s outta his league. He runs around lost in space.
September 28th, 2023 at 6:56 am
Philly is a better team than we are.
We won a SuperBowl more recently than they did.
But we have further to go than they do.
Their lines DOMINATED our lines.
We have alot of young guys, rookies starting- who have alot to learn.
But what matters this year- is what we have to work with going forward.
We have signs of talent.
I am keeping my eyes on our QB .
Finding a QB, would make our trip to the Superbowl at lot closer.
Ive liked what Ive seen from Baker Mayfield.
September 28th, 2023 at 7:28 am
JTS does have 2 sacks in 3 games. He got an F for me Monday night, but maybe earned a couple B’s the 1st two games. Clearly he’s not a pro-bowl talent, and hasn’t earned his 5th year option yet, but there were signs of improvement.
No body was getting to Hurts though. I’d like to see what this entire D-line looks like with a healthy Cancey – maybe we’ll finally get a chance in week 6. A rising tide would lift all pirate ships at this point.
September 28th, 2023 at 7:33 am
I believe he has gotten better this year. Eagles have a dominant O-Line, but there was one play early in the first where Jalen was being chased by JTS and Mike Greene or someone. JTS saw the other Bucs going straight for Jalen as he rolled right and JTS shot up the field to cut off the chance for Jalen to have an open run lane. If JTS would have taken the same route as the other Buc and they both followed him, Jalen would have had a 15 yard run. He still completed a pass, but to me it was a smart angle to take.
September 28th, 2023 at 7:35 am
Tryon is a good backup. That’s about it. Not bashing him…. at the NFL level he’s a backup. That’s the play he’s shown us so far.
September 28th, 2023 at 7:41 am
I thought he played well the first 2 weeks so maybe that adds up.
September 28th, 2023 at 7:52 am
“Joe isn’t going to rag on Bucs sack king Shaq Barrett because he has massive street cred”
I’ll mind that gap. I find it hard to annoint a “king” who seems to get the vast majority of his stats against the dregs of the league. Brilliant 4 sack type performances in games when the Bucs lead, late game sacks on hail mary-esque desperation drives; but he seems to disappear against quality opponents. Exhibit eagles game, ZERO stat line. He’s not a game changer like Sapp or Barber; he’s more the guy who kicks a dog when it’s already down.
Having said that amongst his reverent masses (you), I do think of him as a Top tier OLB that I am grateful is on our team, but he’s not really a leader like Lavonte who gets it done every week or Sapp who crushed the will of opponents. To call someone “king” simply because they are the richest guy in the room (a 14 sack season) denies the leadership qualities implied by the title of king.
Btw, the pic 6 against the bears was brilliant, but was it transformative. Bears pathetic offense/QB were pinned on their goal line with minutes to spare. They were as much a threat as the bucs were on that safety vs the eagles
September 28th, 2023 at 8:05 am
JBF wrote:
“No, Joe is not one to think pressures are better than sacks. Sacks are drive-killers and often gamewreckers. A pressure is just that. It might throw off a quarterback and it might not. A sack is a sack. There is no such thing as an almost-sack.”
Nope – sacks are NOT drive killers. They can be but at least as often as not they aren’t drive killers, given that the average sack only costs the offenses 2-5 yards. Offensive holding calls are much more often drive killers because they always cost 10 yards.
Also, sacks don’t result in interceptions, or poorly thrown balls, by definition, since the ball never is thrown by the quarterback. However quarterback pressures more often than not cause INTs and incompletions, both of which are worth more than losing a couple yards on a sack.
There is the very infrequent strip fumble that does produce a turnover, but again, they’re rare, and they’re only called a sack because that’s how the NFL scores it, but it is clearly not the same as bringing the quarterback to the turf.
Face it, the sack lovers like JBF (we also know who you are) just love the visuals of taking the quarterback down behind the line of scrimmage, making a quarterback look like a lamb surrounded by wolves. It’s a he-man triumphant look that a quarterback pressure does not produce. And when the ball thrown is intercepted or incomplete, the rusher(s) creating the pressure don’t get to fist pump and produce triumphant stances … but they get the satisfaction of seeing the offense’s work stymied.
September 28th, 2023 at 8:09 am
Plan 9 from Outer Space is still in Outer Space. Hope he is able to reenter for the Stainks game. Fire the retro rocket now. Maximum Energy.
September 28th, 2023 at 8:21 am
Nothing to see here. As stated above, BUST.
September 28th, 2023 at 8:36 am
A sack is final. The play ends. And then it’s 2nd or 3rd down, with the offense behind the chains and off schedule.
A pressure isn’t final, and often times big plays are still made. Maybe the QB extends the play and the coverage breaks down and suddenly it’s a 30 yard play for the offense.
September 28th, 2023 at 8:42 am
Shaw is often time this season running himself , Gaines Adams style out of plays , outside move not close to the ball , outside move way wide , outside wide. I believe this is prob an injury comfort thing ………
JTS on the other hand has the skills and Shaw is sliding the QB to him but he truly doesn’t even know what 110 percent effort is …….. His DOGG is a Cat , His top effort is Brandon Grahams 1/2 effort ( on display mon night ) but you never saw a half effort from any Eagles Player .
September 28th, 2023 at 8:55 am
Yup.
September 28th, 2023 at 9:06 am
Getting 5 out of 6 lotto numbers doesn’t win me the lotto
September 28th, 2023 at 9:16 am
Kaput – a pressure IS final whenever, as it frequently does, causes the quarterback to get intercepted or throws the ball away or gets an incompletion.
The thing is, a really really good defense might get 3-4 sacks a game. That’s only three to four plays a game out of 60+ defensive snaps on average – a mere 5% of the defensive snaps.
However, pressures occur at a far higher rate, where a good pass rushing defense will get 15-20 per game – that’s 25-33% of the defensive snaps.
What the pressure do is result in cumulative frustration by the offense. Eventually the quarterback is going to thrown where and when he should not and the result is a give away. But the impact of only 3-4 plays per game is not cumulative and has little effect on the quarterback’s mindset.
That is why the best quarterbacks, guys like Tom Brady and Pat Mahomes have very high quarterback ratings when pressured. The mediocre and poor quarterbacks don’t.
September 28th, 2023 at 9:16 am
Great Olines tend to make average Dlines look weak and ineffectual , so I look for a better performance against Aints.
September 28th, 2023 at 9:42 am
shades of Michael ‘The Ghost’ Johnson, maybe even worse!
September 28th, 2023 at 9:46 am
People are so freaking clueless on pass rushers. The great ones feast on bad to average players and hope to get on the stat sheet against other good to great blockers. The good ones put up their stats against bad to average and hope to not embarrass themselves against good or great. Lane Johnson is a top 5 OT in the league. JTS had a few good initial rushes against Johnson but Johnson recovered. It doesn’t help that Johnson was allowed a half second head start on his pass protection and pass rushers are forced to be more disciplined because you can’t lose contain on Hurts. It pains me to see the comments degrading players by fans that truly have no clue how football works. They are embarrassing.
September 28th, 2023 at 9:58 am
shades of Michael ‘The Ghost’ Johnson, if not even worse!
September 28th, 2023 at 10:02 am
Sorry JOE but Shaq or anyone else doesn’t get a pass from that night. Idc who you are. Shaq got owned right along with JTS and every other defensive player. It was brutal but on to the next.
September 28th, 2023 at 10:02 am
JTS stinks. Just another JAG.
September 28th, 2023 at 10:02 am
Oh yea our offense and ST got owned too lol
September 28th, 2023 at 10:05 am
Outside of Wirfs and Vea the Bucs are loaded with JAGs… why we cant run the ball and why we got manhandled by arguably the best roster in the NFL on Monday night. Run gm is slightly better than the historically bad run game of 2022. As i said above – JTS stinks.
September 28th, 2023 at 10:29 am
We have alot of young guys, rookies starting- who have alot to learn…. Capt. Tim.
Tim, JTS has been a no show for 2 years already has a head start on another wasted year at the corner. He may be fast, however, he seems to use that speed to run past the QB and CONSTANTLY gets pushed out of the play. The fact that Buc management can’t seem to see that makes me think we are hopeless when it comes evaluating talent. Maybe he’s a TE in another life. In this one he is a flop as a pro football player. Yet ANOTHER huge miss on a #1 pick of ours.
September 28th, 2023 at 10:42 am
Jane Tryon has been on a milk carton since they drafted this bum. And yet they still trot him out as a starter. Are the players behind him even worse? Anthony Nelson can get home. Love to see what YaYa can do. This guy hasn’t done squat since he got here.
September 28th, 2023 at 10:42 am
Quarterback pressures are useless. Quarterback hits ok now you’re talking. So actually not that interesting if it doesn’t lead to a quarterback hits, where does he rank there Joe?
September 28th, 2023 at 10:49 am
Defense Rules Says:
September 28th, 2023 at 4:00 am
Watched JTS on several plays in Monday night’s game Joe, and what I kept seeing was him getting ridden out of virtually every play. Almost always to the back which screwed up containment on his side of the play. Hurts didn’t always choose to take advantage, but he certainly could have.
_____________________
THIS 💯
It looked like his rookie year again, where he would explode off the line but then just get pushed 10 feet past the play into the backfield. Over and over.
Our entire line (offensive and defensive) were simply manhandled by the Eagles. It was hard to watch. No pressure at all.
September 28th, 2023 at 10:55 am
sacks>pressure>QB time to throw
Sacks are always best, but if you can’t sack, for a throw with pressure.
Fact: Iggles don’t give up many sacks because 1) OL is faboo, and 2) Hurts has serious wheel get-away.
I don’t judge the DT/OLB corp based on the Iggles seal-clubbing. I won’t be shocked if the NFC Championship game has two 2-loss max teams. I won’t say undefeated because December 3 could be the preview of the NFC SB team.
September 28th, 2023 at 10:56 am
I wish JBF had a 5-minute edit feature.
^^^^force, not for^^^^
September 28th, 2023 at 11:46 am
JTS is bad but Logan Hall is atrocious
September 28th, 2023 at 12:05 pm
DR
I was sitting directly behind the bench and could see Vea grimacing every time he came off the field.
September 28th, 2023 at 12:07 pm
FOR ALL THE JTS HATERS …
Who’s better? Give me one OLB who’s done more. Just one. How about any DL? If you hate JTS, how should you feel about every other OLB?
LET ME HELP YOU OUT …
(SACKS + TFL)
JTS = 5
Shaq+Nelson+Gill+Yaya+Gaines+Gholston = 4
September 28th, 2023 at 12:45 pm
Sly, that’s why this is a 7, 8 win team. Outside of Wirfs and Vea we are average AT BEST on both fronts.
JTS = bust
Logan Hall – ill give him a few more games. At least he’s made a play or 2 this season. Only thing he did as a rookie was end Jensens career.
I will admit I am excited about Ya Ya and Calijah.
September 28th, 2023 at 1:06 pm
For the last 2 yrs all we have seen is 4 or 5 splash plays by Joe Tryon. he certainly is not a great or even good DE. He was a ghost in the Eagles game. Where is his production? And our so called flash runnin back Mr White..We are waiting….But for how long?
September 28th, 2023 at 1:10 pm
A sturdy traffic cone could block JTS
September 28th, 2023 at 1:51 pm
JTS is not a football player. He got rag dolled by a TE Monday. Give his reps to YAYA and Nelson. It’s over
September 28th, 2023 at 2:29 pm
Dude is NOT GOOD Please stop! Him and 90 should be still playing NCAA
September 28th, 2023 at 4:20 pm
dmatt: hahaha. . . I remember that play from the Bengals game well, he batted that thing down like it was a hand grenade
September 28th, 2023 at 4:46 pm
SC Bucs Fan – thats a good one! Perhaps one of the Joes can use that in their next JTS story because lord knows thats 100% TRUTH.
September 28th, 2023 at 4:54 pm
JTS gets pushed around like beets at a picnic…that dude just stinks
September 29th, 2023 at 8:53 am
No dog in JTS. Another one of a long list of high Buc draft picks who didn’t pan out as edge rushers. Spence, Adams, JTS, Adrian Clayborne, etc.
Last great edge rusher on Bucs was Simeon Rice. So many drafts and the Bucs
havn’t found what they needed.