Sean Payton, Russell Wilson, Dave Canales & The Bucs
August 20th, 2023
Bucs offensive coordiantor Dave Canales.
Interesting study revealed by former slimy Saints head coach Sean Payton, who now coaches the Denver Broncos led by ex-Seahawks quarterback Russell Wilson.
Payton was a guest on SiriusXM NFL Radio recently and shared how he did an in-depth study of Wilson’s final five seasons with the Seahawks (2017-2021). Wilson threw a whopping 170 touchdowns through that period (including playoffs) and Payton shared that 40 percent of them were from outside the pocket.
Payton talked about how the Seattle offense thrived with those kinds of plays and that receiver Tyler Lockett was underpaid because of his fantastic ability to adjust.
That 40 percent is a huge number. It got Payton’s attention and it really got Joe thinking about Bucs offensive coordiantor Dave Canales, who was Seahawks quarterbacks coach for two of those seasons and passing game coordinator for another two.
Canales never hides from saying the Bucs’ offense will look a lot like the Seahawks’ and that much of what he knows he learned from great Seahawks minds of the past.
Those TDs out of the pocket are critical to the Canales offense and certainly it looks like the Bucs’ offensive line might not be better than average when it comes to pass blocking, especially early this season.
While Kyle Trask has improved his mobility, it’s obvious that Baker Mayfield offers more mobility and the kind of play on the run that Canales prefers. Joe also thinks this magnifies Mike Evans’ already critical role in the offense. He’s certainly the Bucs best receiver when it comes to adjusting to the football and any chaos on the field.
August 20th, 2023 at 9:47 am
Hopefully Bowles leaves the offense totally to Canales and doesn’t ruin it. It’s frightening to watch Bowles on the sideline, sometimes he reminds me of Lovie Smith. Too bad we couldn’t have hired Mike Tomlin way back in the day.
August 20th, 2023 at 9:58 am
Mobility doesn’t mean Patrick Mahomes
August 20th, 2023 at 10:02 am
Jamyth had great mobility
August 20th, 2023 at 10:03 am
I don’t know what Bruce Arians saw in run-up-the-middle only Byron Leftwich but if Canales is 30% better then Leftwich, the Bucs have a fighting chance to be divisional champs.
August 20th, 2023 at 10:14 am
So it’s critical for our quarterback to run for his life? Why would a quarterback want to throw from outside the wall of protection his teammates built for him? I didn’t see Tom Brady running for his life when he was winning us a Super Bowl. Usually when quarterbacks throw from outside the pocket it’s because of something unplanned, such as receivers not getting open or someone missing their blocking assignment. So the quarterback has to run around to by enough time to complete a pass. There’s a higher risk of injury when relying on quarterbacks to throw from outside the pocket, ask Kyle Shanahan.
August 20th, 2023 at 10:16 am
AlabamaBucsFan Says:
August 20th, 2023 at 10:03 am
I don’t know what Bruce Arians saw in run-up-the-middle only Byron Leftwich but if Canales is 30% better then Leftwich, the Bucs have a fighting chance to be divisional champs.
Weren’t we division champs last year with Leftwhich?
August 20th, 2023 at 10:21 am
Our starting QB will have plenty of opportunities to scramble. The OL has been putrid after two preseason games. Wirfs alone won’t make it better.
August 20th, 2023 at 10:30 am
QB starter is not going to matter at all if the Oline does not grow a spine over the next two weeks. Why is Logan Hall still on the roster as he is a complete and utter whiff by Jason Licht.
August 20th, 2023 at 10:44 am
Jack C. We were division winners in spite of Leftnut, not because of him. I am already a fan of Canales. Through both pre season games I have only been able to guess the plays on maybe 20% or less of the time. With L almost any fan could make bank on what was coming from our comfortable couches! A HUGE improvement considering we have not even seen the real offense yet. Everything is vanilla at this point. I am excited to see what may be possible! GO BUCS
August 20th, 2023 at 10:46 am
Bucs screwed up not having 4 QBs on the roster.
August 20th, 2023 at 10:47 am
A mobile QB will always have an advantage over a pocket passer if the OLine is shaky.
August 20th, 2023 at 10:58 am
Trask monkey-wrenched the coaches last night. The debate will never end until one leaves or the other puts up wins.
August 20th, 2023 at 11:30 am
I expect a planned roll-out to the right, etc, would extend the QB’s time to throw
August 20th, 2023 at 11:33 am
Baker thrives on the move out of the pocket throwing more than Trask for sure which is probably why he works better than Trask for this offense but I have to admit Trask did not look bad last night just not sure if he’s a fit for this particular system also the on-line is really concerning me probably more than the running game if we can’t win the trenches we’re doomed from the get-go the run game won’t matter it won’t matter if saquon Barkley and Jonathan Taylor are both lined up in that backfield if we don’t have the line to protect we’re going nowhere
August 20th, 2023 at 11:58 am
Part of what makes a rollout QB work is his O-line.
If they are experienced enough and can keep track of the QB, it will work.
The Bucs line is not yet ready for prime time, much less being able to block for a rollout.
Canales should be smart enough to realize that, for the moment, a pocket passer would be more effective. He can call plays to suit that.
If Baker is QB and you tell him to stay in the pocket, it will be like me teaching a cat to play chess, neither are wired for that. If Baker runs around with this line his life insurance company will cancel him.
August 20th, 2023 at 12:02 pm
So a one-read then scramble drill offense? LOL
August 20th, 2023 at 12:04 pm
If Baker thrives out of the pocket why does he throw picks like Winston. Just curious. Is it him or all the other players and teams he was on. I don’t hate the guy but I don’t want QBs who turn it over all the time.
August 20th, 2023 at 12:19 pm
Well traditionally Mayfield has been pretty awful from in the pocket / without being pressured, so maybe the garbage o-line won’t be so bad for us after all lol. Oh well except for helping with the run game…
August 20th, 2023 at 12:25 pm
The O line is the weak link not the quarterback like what national media would have you believe. They don’t get eyeballs to their channels talking about an offensive line. I think it’s a toss up, I prefer baker but would be fine with either quarterback because I’m a Buc fan regardless. Can’t be worse than the lovie era.
August 20th, 2023 at 12:45 pm
Baloney on Mayfield. Trask was better at mobility yesterday. The Mayfield fan club is in for a bad surprize.
August 20th, 2023 at 12:59 pm
Joe … ‘Canales never hides from saying the Bucs’ offense will look a lot like the Seahawks’
Watching last night’s game, I came to the conclusion that trying to duplicate Seattle’s offense would be a mistake given the players who we have, for several reasons. For starters, neither Baker Mayfield nor Kyle Trask is even reasonably similar to Russell Wilson. Over his 10-year career with Seattle, Wilson passed for 292 TDs and 37,059 yards, with a completion percentage of 65.0% and a TD percentage of 5.9%. He also ran though 846 times for 4,689 rushing yards & 23 TDs with an average 5.5 Yds per Carry. Not hard to figure out his annual averages, since he was with them for 10 years.
Contrast that with Baker Mayfield. Over his 5-year career with Browns, Panthers & Rams, Mayfield passed for 102 TDs and 16,288 yards, with a completion percentage of 61.4% and a TD percentage of 4.5%. He also ran though 189 times for 660 rushing yards & 6 TDs with an average 3.5 Yds per Carry.
So overall, Baker wasn’t as productive as Wilson at passing the ball, but where the two really diverged is in their mobility & their ability to keep a play alive & get something out of it. Wilson (like Jalen Hurts & Lamar Jackson) was a runner in his early years especially. Seattle’s offense was very productive because it played to those strengths, and surely complicated opponents’ defensive game plans. Neither Mayfield nor Trask has THAT degree of mobility.
Also though, we’ve got weapons that can feed off the short passing game, but their real strengths are in the intermediate & deep passing game (which BA knew how to capitalize on). WRs like Evans & Godwin aren’t great dink-and-dunkers, as evidenced by their fall-off in Average Depth of Target (ADOT) and YAC last year. Although they can both be effective in the short passing game, both thrive on the intermediate & deep passes. And it seems that also gives us our best chance of scoring TDs. Who knew?
One last factor is our OLine, and I’m convinced that it’s our major weakness at present. Personally I think that Kyle would do better behind THIS OLine, but my vote doesn’t count. I’m just hoping that whichever QB gets the starting nod, that Canales doesn’t limit them to just dink-and-dunk combined with a hearty Hi-Yo Silver in the running game. We’ve got to find ways to keep defenses ‘honest’ if we expect to get this offense on the right track.
August 20th, 2023 at 1:07 pm
Excellent post DR
August 20th, 2023 at 1:42 pm
Ever been to the bullfights? Instead of The Seven Blocks of Granite, the Bucs have The Five Matadors.
August 20th, 2023 at 1:50 pm
Props Defense Rules, the best post of the year. I agree 100% the players we have just aren’t a fit for the short pass game west coast type offense. The Oline is the biggest ?
August 20th, 2023 at 1:55 pm
The idea that Trask has got to have more than average movement skills to run the offense is overblown. If the coaches really believe that then we’re in for a bumpy ride. Also see: Purdy, Brock. The Shanahan offense, which operates with many of the same basic foundations as Mcveighs does, does not seem to suffer for lack of a mobile qb.
August 20th, 2023 at 2:24 pm
SB~LV Says:
Especially in an Uber…:rimshot:
August 20th, 2023 at 2:35 pm
Who can grade any quarterback realistically without the starting line or receivers or running backs. I think toilet bowels already inadvertently named the starting quarterback in his last presser. I don’t get to see the practices but from what I’ve seen in games, it’s a toss up. BTW, I’m a Trask supporter but I just want to win, whoever it is. Yes, I still expect Bowels to be fired sometime this season.
August 20th, 2023 at 2:45 pm
I see a problem.
Baker Minefield, is not Russell Wilson. Even Russell Wilson, does not play like Russell Wilson, anymore.
August 20th, 2023 at 3:08 pm
Cover deuce … ‘The idea that Trask has got to have more than average movement skills to run the offense is overblown.’
I agree, with 1 caveat: If your QB doesn’t have above average mobility, then the OLine better be able to protect him long enough for him to go through his progressions. When they can’t do that, your intermediate & deep passing game is compromised, and we saw what results last year. Even The GOAT couldn’t effectively compensate for mediocre protection, as evidenced by our Points Scored dropping from 511 in 2021 to a meager 313 in 2022, and our Average Yards per Play dropping from 6.1 in 2021 down to only 5.1 in 2022. Those are dramatic reductions in effectiveness, and IMO it primarily (but not entirely) points back to the major changes that our OLine had to undergo last year.
August 20th, 2023 at 3:11 pm
I’ll say it again: At some point, Kyle Trask will be starting QB, this season.
For a reason, yet to be determined. I can think of 2.
Watching the Bucs game last night, I thought to myself, the Bucs are gonna need a 4th QB, because 3 QB’s won’t last the season. Then Wolford is carted off the field, taken to the hospital.
Bucs already down to 2 QB’s, and the season hasn’t even started.
August 20th, 2023 at 3:18 pm
You can’t talk about the old Seahawks without Beast Mode. It’s not the QB. Russ was clutch, but Lynch made that offense great.
August 20th, 2023 at 3:53 pm
Our 3rd game is the Eagles, and ALL of our QB’s are gonna get hurt playing THEM
August 20th, 2023 at 3:55 pm
It looks like Trask has as much mobility as Mayfield now
August 20th, 2023 at 3:56 pm
Jack Clark says: “Weren’t we division champs last year with Leftwhich?”
LOL – We sucked so bad on offense last year, I seemed to block out that we were divisional champs.
August 20th, 2023 at 4:46 pm
We’re screwed
August 20th, 2023 at 6:06 pm
Russel had Lynch at Seattle.
The Bucs have ??? for Baker Traskfield.
Not exactly apples–>apples.
August 20th, 2023 at 6:13 pm
The point to keep in mind in all of this good discussion is that Rah Rah Canales wants to install the Seahawks offense, while both of the QBs are question marks, and neither is a clear fit who has demonstrated the ability to thrive in such a system. You “think” either of them “can” or might, you try to guess from limited data, with nothing to be settled until well into the season. We don’t know if Canales is flexible enough to adapt, if neither of them is a good fit. We also have serious issues with this OL, above and beyond any desire by Canales to transform it into the zone blocking scheme behind which Wilson and Marshawn Lynch were able to function (despite patchwork personnel in many seasons). Finally, just as there is no Russ Wilson on this roster, there is no Beast Mode Lynch.
So this is where we are. Imperfect fits. Coaches with a lot of work to do.
August 20th, 2023 at 6:18 pm
Hey Trask rolled out plenty last night and looked good doing it. Last year without his best blockers out with injuries Brady was a sitting duck. Both current qbs can roll out and Trask looked good at it last night. Moving the pocket slows down the pass rush. Bucs need to use more often.
August 20th, 2023 at 8:02 pm
Steele … ‘Imperfect fits. Coaches with a lot of work to do.’
I like your bottom line Steele. And yes, IMO coaching will be the difference-maker because ‘We got what we got’ when it comes to talent.
August 20th, 2023 at 8:47 pm
Mayfield should be fine in Canales offense. Seahawks had virtually no running game and 2 stud receivers in Lockett and the big Alabama kid and their Offense was solid. The simplified reads were executed perfectly by Geno. Smith was a pretty good QB out of WV and if it wasn’t for the world being infatuated with Johnny Football he might of got more press for the Heisman. Geno and Baker are about equal. My point is the offense will suit Baker and if Geno can throw for 4200 yards there is no reason Baker can’t with the WR weapons he has in Evans and Godwin.
August 20th, 2023 at 8:50 pm
The Bucs have Evans and Godwin who will thrives in such an offense. So to me it comes down to how well the Bucs establish the run game.
August 21st, 2023 at 3:35 am
More mobility is now something everyone wants in a QB.
I am not one of those. It is great when plays break down. Or designed QB bootlegs once in a while. But depending on that is a recipe for an injured QB. Unless he is Mahomes. And for most QBs to toss lots of INTs.
Go Bucs!