Red Zone Pass Defense Must Improve
August 6th, 2023
Edge rusher Joe Tryon-Shoyinka.
No more excuses for the pass defense.
Joe is scanning through Aaron Schatz’s Football Almanac 2023. Schatz, the former ringleader of Football Outsiders, branched out on his own with his good, quality intel about all NFL teams.
A whole lot changed for the Bucs from coming within a cat’s whisker of returning to the Super Bowl in 2021, and the drek that was last year.
The Bucs had an OK defense, except for virtually no edge rush. What Joe found interesting reading Schatz’s almanac was the Bucs’ red zone defense was nearly a mirror image last season as it was in 2021 — when the Bucs were one of the best teams in the league.
Tampa Bay ranked 30th in the red zone against the pass but sixth against the run. In 2021, they were 27th in the red zone against the pass but seventh against the run.
That’s wild. Now why is the pass defense in the red zone so porous? Joe doesn’t think it’s a stretch to find the culprit.
Two years ago, the Bucs’ edge rush took a hit when Jason Pierre-Paul blew out a shoulder early in the season. He was never the same. As a result, teams could dedicate more bodies to stop Bucs sacks king Shaq Barrett.
This is yet another example of how critical it is for Joe Tryon-Shoyinka to demonstrate he was worthy of a first-round selection in 2021.
Joe knows rookie third-round pick edge rusher YaYa’s Flame Broiled Chicken Diaby is getting people excited. Remember, he’s a rookie, and most rookie edge rushers don’t rack up a lot of sacks.
For every Bosa brother who kicks ass as a rookie from the edge, there are easily a dozen sackless Kyle Moores, or guys like Tryon-Shoyinka who had four sacks as a rookie and the same total last season.
August 6th, 2023 at 10:08 am
My hope is that Kancey can force a few things by putting some speed in the middle.
I know he is not Aaron Donald, but the Bucs had to have the slowest interior D-line last season; any speed helps.
The main part of good red zone defense is a solid pass rush that doesn’t allow time for a play to develop.
I am not worried about the rush defense. If the Bowles cleaner is good at anything it is run defense.
August 6th, 2023 at 10:20 am
i remember a comment on the joebucsfan podcast from years back.. lee said a lawn chair could cover better than our corners.. i think that was the dirk diggler days. Im hoping the #9 can get more sacks than a Adirondack chair??
August 6th, 2023 at 10:22 am
i remember a comment on the jpodcast from years back.. lee said a lawn chair could cover better than our corners.. i think that was the dirk diggler days. Im hoping the #9 can get more sacks than a Adirondack chair??
August 6th, 2023 at 10:51 am
PASS RUSH PASS RUSH PASS RUSH.
QB”s allowed to eat lunch before they throw the ball = bad stats for Defenses.
It is easy pickings for most NFL QB’s down at the goal line.
NO PASS RUSH MEANS EASY PICKINGS ANYWHERE ON THE FIELD.
UNLESS THIS CHANGES, Nothing will improve like it needs to for the Defense.
Crossroads season for Joe T Shoyinka. Either he plays like they thought he would when they drafted him to, or he will be gone.
August 6th, 2023 at 10:58 am
LOL
August 6th, 2023 at 11:01 am
Tryon is a another 1st round bust draft pick by our beloved Buccaneers. I wish this wasn’t so but it is true. I say Bucs best bet is to sign JPP back and see if he offer some pass rush this season.
August 6th, 2023 at 11:20 am
Someone call Stylez White to replace JTS lol
August 6th, 2023 at 11:27 am
“I say Bucs best bet is to sign JPP back and see if he offer some pass rush this season.”
Yeah because JPP’s 2.5 sacks in 2021 and 3 sacks in 2022 are SOOOO much better than the 4 JTS got in each year.
August 6th, 2023 at 11:54 am
Bobby everyone knows you don’t judge a draft until 3 to 4 years later. While yes JTS is flirting with the bust label I for one am not calling him a bust just yet and here’s why JTS sat out a year of football because of the sickness so he’s was very raw and a project when drafted. He has all the abilities you want in an edge now he just has to learn how to use it all together in the NFL. Some people take time to develop. He got 4 sacks as a rookie which isn’t terrible but didn’t get more than that the next year also didn’t get less so we will see if he can put it together this year.
August 6th, 2023 at 12:16 pm
After 17 regular season games last year, I saw way too many busted coverages in our secondary against Dallas on national tv to understand just why this group was so porous. I can only speculate. Perhaps they want the moniker, ‘the Swiss cheese four’? Idk….
We left no coverege unbroken? Idk
Perhaps the lawnchair 4….
I shouldn’t be so harsh on lawnchairs…. Just sayin
August 6th, 2023 at 12:51 pm
If Vita and Kancey blow up the middle, the outside guys should get more sacks. More pressure on the QB means more picks by the secondary. A lot riding on the rookie.
August 6th, 2023 at 12:52 pm
I would temper expectations on Kancey, especially now with his injury.
Hopefully YaYa bring some rookie juice, and JTS (and Logan Gall) finally step their game up. JTS has the speed, but he needs to use more power and learn how to finish / not get blown out of the play. I swear he must lead the league in “almost sacks / almost hits”. Too bad this isn’t horseshoes…
August 6th, 2023 at 12:52 pm
*Logan Hall
August 6th, 2023 at 12:58 pm
Can we please stop calling this dude Flame broiled chicken?
August 6th, 2023 at 1:00 pm
“No more excuses for the pass defense.”
Todd Bowels will have plenty of excuses for not teaching our defensive backs how to communicate with each other and who to cover after the ball is snapped
August 6th, 2023 at 1:13 pm
I might be missing something Joe, but I don’t think pass rush was the driving problem in the Red Zone last year. That’s a very compressed area obviously, and it’s hard to defend against both the run AND quick passes AND simultaneously get an effective pass rush.
Bucs gave up 31 TDs total in the Red Zone (tied for #20 ranking), representing 140 plays last season. Of those, 9 TDs came from rushing (66 plays & 211 yards) and 22 TDs came from passing (74 plays & 376 yards). Of those 74 pass plays, 49 were completed passes. We tied for a #4 ranking in terms of rushing TDs allowed, but came in #29 against the pass. That seems to be perfectly consistent with Todd Bowles’ defensive priorities (run defense is Job 1?).
I tend to think that our problem in the Red Zone is COVERAGE. We gave up 66.2% completion rate and an average of 7.3 yards/completion (tying us for #24 ranking in the NFL). That completion percentage is way too high. Heck in total we only allowed 63.9% pass completions, so we actually did WORSE in the Red Zone (the compressed area?). We’ve gotta tighten up the coverage down there; if we do, the pass rush will get there & the sacks will come.
August 6th, 2023 at 1:15 pm
Jack Clark Says:
August 6th, 2023 at 1:00 pm
“No more excuses for the pass defense.”
Todd Bowels will have plenty of excuses for not teaching our defensive backs how to communicate with each other and who to cover after the ball is snapped
^^^^^^^^
List of things I like: Everything good
Bottom of the list:
900,000,000,000,000: Pictures of Megan Rapinoe
900,000,000,000,001: Comments from Jack Clark
August 6th, 2023 at 1:33 pm
Joe in Michigan Says:
August 6th, 2023 at 1:15 pm
List of things I like: Everything good
Bottom of the list:
900,000,000,000,000: Pictures of Megan Rapinoe
900,000,000,000,001: Comments from Jack Clark
^^^^^
Who hurt you?
August 6th, 2023 at 1:41 pm
I, too, think it is in bad taste to flame Yaya as a chicken so soon.
August 6th, 2023 at 1:45 pm
Let’s put in 3 LB’s in the Red Zone. White rushing in the A gap in the QB’s face, and SVD in off-coverage with LVD. I seem to remember a lot of RBs catching TD passes on us, so our off LB’s need to react quicker to RBs.
August 6th, 2023 at 1:47 pm
Defense Rules Says:
August 6th, 2023 at 1:13 pm
I might be missing something Joe, but I don’t think pass rush was the driving problem in the Red Zone last year. I tend to think that our problem in the Red Zone is COVERAGE. We’ve gotta tighten up the coverage down there; if we do, the pass rush will get there & the sacks will come.
I think Joe was saying our pass coverage was bad because our pass rush was bad. How much time do quarterbacks generally have to throw against us? It’s very difficult for any secondary to cover receivers for more than 3 seconds. So if our pass rush isn’t making quarterbacks change decisions after the ball is snapped then we’re toast.
August 6th, 2023 at 2:01 pm
Craig Says:
“My hope is that Kancey can force a few things by putting some speed in the middle. I know he is not Aaron Donald …”
How do you know he’s not AD? AD had 16.5 sacks his soph and junior year at Pitt. CK had 14.5. Not too far off.
AD had 9 sacks his rookie year. I’m guessing CK is 7.
August 6th, 2023 at 2:03 pm
Cloud 9 is one season away from selling F-150’s…talking about “what could have been” in the customer lounge.
August 6th, 2023 at 2:20 pm
@Defense Rules –
The interesting part about that, is that normally we hear how much the compressed field makes it harder for the OFFENSE to score… (how many times did we hear about our red zone scoring ills last year?)
Yet now we’re saying the compressed field is making it too hard on our defense?
Perhaps our defense just forgot how to defend slants again….
That said, I would be curious to see what our pressure numbers (sacks, QB hits, hurries, run stuffs, etc.) were in the red zone compared to overall for the team last year. Anyone have that data?
August 6th, 2023 at 2:50 pm
JPP was still pretty good, even when hurt. Remember?
Playing with use of one arm, and half a hand, lol
August 6th, 2023 at 2:52 pm
I should add: JPP just knew where to be. JTS needs to learn this.
August 6th, 2023 at 3:09 pm
If it was easy, I’d be doing it.
I could learn where to be, maybe? But, I’d never get there in one piece.
August 6th, 2023 at 3:23 pm
Jack Clark … ‘It’s very difficult for any secondary to cover receivers for more than 3 seconds. So if our pass rush isn’t making quarterbacks change decisions after the ball is snapped then we’re toast.’
Outside the 20 yard line, I don’t disagree with you Jack. Bucs bread & butter was always tightening up inside the 20 because the field was ‘compressed’ (ie, you’re not defending mega-yards, just the 20 yards plus the 10-yard end zone). And yet time-and-time again last year we’d see receivers getting hit for TDs on quick slants, etc.
If Job #1 is to defend against the rush (including sealing the outsides, etc), long-developing plays are the exception not the rule. Tough for your pass rush to get there in that short amount of time (assuming of course that it’s a pass play) UNLESS the pass play breaks down because of great coverage.
August 6th, 2023 at 3:54 pm
Defense Rules Says:
August 6th, 2023 at 3:23 pm
Outside the 20 yard line, I don’t disagree with you Jack. If Job #1 is to defend against the rush (including sealing the outsides, etc), long-developing plays are the exception not the rule. Tough for your pass rush to get there in that short amount of time
Well then if receivers are getting open in less than 3 seconds after the ball is snapped–regardless of where they are on the field–then it’s a problem with our coverage because we can’t expect our pass rush to sack/pressure the quarterback in less than 3 seconds.
August 6th, 2023 at 4:39 pm
Jack Clark … I bet NexGen has some statistics on that that’d tell us what’s really going on.
August 6th, 2023 at 5:41 pm
I don’t have the numbers, but it seems like Bowles gets very conservative in the red zone and just sits back in zone defenses. Not sure where you find those numbers, but I wonder if that’s a trend or not.
Also, Vita is rarely in there when they got the red zone as he’d be winded and sitting on the sidelines because he’s overweight. Want to help the defense, tell Vita to lose some blubber.
Of course with the run defense being good, it could be as simple as the defense overpursing the run in the red zone.
August 6th, 2023 at 5:58 pm
Jack Clark Says:
August 6th, 2023 at 1:33 pm
Who hurt you?
^^^^^^^^^
Nobody, I just wanted to get a post in about Megan Rapinoe. I’m just messing with you (some would call it trolling).
August 6th, 2023 at 7:49 pm
Let’s go Logan! Tremendous if he can show up year two after first offseason. He’s a beast.
August 6th, 2023 at 8:08 pm
Defense Rules – What do you think on my take above, by memory, it seems like the Bucs play soft inside the 20, go to lose zone defenses, which drives me nuts. Is that a pattern you noticed or do you completely disagree? I don’t have stats or anything to backup my take, and it’s very possible I’m only remembering the stuff that annoys me, but even if you did defense Ryan Smith and Chris Conte as being pro-bowl caliber players, I’ll still listen to your opinion from time to time.
August 6th, 2023 at 8:26 pm
JTS should have improved a lot in year two. He did not. Not much reason to expect a big improvement this season. He is what he is. Looks like a stud, plays like a dud.
August 7th, 2023 at 6:09 am
Give Ya Ya and Nelson his snaps if he doesnt show up early and often this year.
Nelson impressed the hell out of me last year.
Go Bucs!