The Crying Trenches
March 17th, 2023
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BY IRA KAUFMAN
Where’s the beef?
The Bucs did a nice job retaining Lavonte David and Jamel Dean, dependable defensive starters Todd Bowles didn’t want to lose. Chase Edmonds adds a veteran to a young and thin offensive backfield.
Signing Baker Mayfield to compete against Kyle Trask in training camp was a smart move. If Mayfield realizes this is his last legitimate shot at an NFL starting job, he just might wise up and remind us why he was the first overall pick in the 2018 draft, just ahead of Saquon Barkley and six spots ahead of Josh Allen.
Mayfield doesn’t move well and he hasn’t shown enough maturity to be a leader, but he can deliver a football with authority. He showcased his skills in 2020, when he led the Browns to an 11-5 mark before a dazzling playoff performance at Heinz Field.
Cleveland jumped to a 35-10 halftime lead en route to a 48-37 victory against Pittsburgh, overcoming Ben Roethlisberger’s 501 yards and four TD passes. Mayfield threw for 263 yards and three scores as the Browns advanced to a divisional-round matchup at Kansas City.
The 14-2 Chiefs led 19-3 at the half before Mayfield led an impressive road comeback bid against the eventual AFC champs. KC held on for a 22-17 triumph, but not before encountering a major scare as Cleveland converted 6-of-13 on third down and all three of its fourth-down attempts.
So far, so good for the Buc brain trust.
Josh Wells, Tristan Wirfs and Robert Hainsey.
But huge challenges remain when it comes to the trenches — where most games are won or lost. Given the current roster, the 2023 Bucs look woefully outmanned up front on both sides of the ball.
Let’s start with the men charged with opening up holes and protecting Mayfield or Trask. If Tristan Wirfs switches to left tackle, the Bucs are looking at a complete overhaul, with little proven depth. That could change in the draft and what’s left in free agency.
At the moment, things look scary, even if Ryan Jensen returns fully healthy at center. Wirfs and Jensen, Jensen and Wirfs. That’s it as far as proven commodities up front.
Can Tampa Bay count on Luke Goedeke, Robert Hainsey, Aaron Stinnie and Nick Leverett to fill out a competent unit? Mayfield and Trask aren’t exactly known for their mobility, so a secure pocket is paramount.
Jason Licht needs to get busy in the next six weeks or Buc fans will be screaming once again about poor play up front.
The current defensive line doesn’t inspire much confidence, either.
Vita Vea is the clear standout, an elite player when healthy. But Vea missed three games last season and played only five games in 2020. Tampa Bay will continue to monitor his snap counts closely. That’s the wise move in theory. In reality, it’s hard to give Vea much of a breather when you consider the alternatives.
Anthony Nelson is back at One Buc Place and he’s proven to be a nice situational pass rusher. Then we come to Logan Hall and Joe Tryon-Shoyinka. Bowles is hoping at least one of these two youngsters can make an impact.
Todd Bowles
Bowles is keeping hope alive, but hope won’t sack Derek Carr or drop Miles Sanders for a 2-yard loss.
Add in uncertainty surrounding Shaq Barrett’s return from a torn Achilles and it’s clear that finding additional pass rushers should be the organization’s top priority at this stage.
Noah Spence is on a decades-long list of draft misses at edge rusher.
This franchise’s initial draft choice, defensive end Lee Roy Selmon, ended up in the Hall of Fame, but Tampa Bay’s overall track record for drafting quality edge rushers remains abysmal.
The bulk of those misfires predate Licht by decades, but something has to change — and it has to change now. As Bowles laments, the top sackers in his defense should always be the edge rushers — not Vea and inside linebacker Devin White.
As expected, the rest of the NFC South has taken some worrisome offseason steps in an effort to unseat the Bucs.
To be fair, Tampa Bay lacked the resources to be a major player in free agency. While Mayfield’s addition and the return of Dean and David should keep the Bucs competitive in the division, the trenches cry out for help.
Anyone listening?
Ira Kaufman Talks Baker Mayfield Signing, Free Agency Moves/Non-Moves, How Many Wins Todd Bowles Needs To Keep His Job, Insider O-Line Chatter, And Much More
March 17th, 2023 at 11:30 am
Well said.
March 17th, 2023 at 11:34 am
Ira is right — but the affordability issue means you’ll be counting on your headless chicken (JTS) and invisible man (Logan Hall), plus and 3rd-wave FA scrubs you might pick up, and the draft. Same for the OL.
It’s all rendered moot by the circus clown masquerading as a head coach. He is gifted at bringing the inner suck out of any player, even Tom Brady.
March 17th, 2023 at 11:36 am
Robert Hainsey, Aaron Stinnie and Nick Leverett have already proven they can perform in this league. Goedeke should be moved back to his normal position at RT where he performed well in his one appearance there. I think this line is going to surprise people when you account for the new run scheme. A wide Zone run scheme combined with hopefully less predictable play calling will show what this crew can really do. Go Bucs
March 17th, 2023 at 11:36 am
Indeed.
March 17th, 2023 at 11:38 am
After the potential misses with JTS & Hall….I’m not trusting Licht & Bowles with defensive picks…..unless at CB.
I’d be happy to pick the best Oline or TE @ 19…….
We haven’t spent money on the trenches…….spent on 3 WRs & 2 CBs…….
March 17th, 2023 at 11:40 am
I like Lukas Van Ness at 19
March 17th, 2023 at 11:42 am
Steve Avila after we draft Hooker should help on the O line.
I dont trust drafting D line after the last two drafts….sorry, make them work it out….
March 17th, 2023 at 12:04 pm
My sources say that Jensen is contemplating retirement this year or next. So Licht better keep his options available.
March 17th, 2023 at 12:06 pm
Ira … ‘While Mayfield’s addition and the return of Dean and David should keep the Bucs competitive in the division, the trenches cry out for help. Anyone listening?’
Preach on Sage, preach on.
Bucs DLine needs a NT to replace Nacho, a DE/DT to replace Gholston, a DT to replace Hicks, and a DE/DT to replace Hall. Oops forgot that he’s supposed to be on the DLine. Move him outside anyways; too light & not strong enough to play inside with the big boys.
March 17th, 2023 at 12:14 pm
Didn’t Licht just get done saying we’re not playing any time soon? We still have the draft and the rest of the offseason and training camp. Ira, did you listen? No? Yes? You even said that the Bucs didn’t have the resources (money) this year. Yes, they are listening and yes, they know this. I wonder sometimes about folks and their articles when you’re supposed to be in the know, you guys sure do post articles that make you seem detached no matter how connected you are.
March 17th, 2023 at 12:20 pm
Hope is not a strategy.
March 17th, 2023 at 12:35 pm
Mr. Bill is listening. Ohhh Noooooo!
March 17th, 2023 at 12:38 pm
Anthony Nelson, Noah Spence, Will Gholston, Steven Means, DaQuan Bowers, Adrian Clayborn, Kyle Moore, Gaines Adams (RIP), Julian Jenkins – who?, DeWayne White…….Those are all of the DE picks (5th round or higher) since 2000. That is an UGLY list gents.
March 17th, 2023 at 12:46 pm
Love Shaq but I expect nothing from him in 2023. I expect a shell of himself. His game is built from his explosiveness and that’s gonna disappear with his injury. I have ZERO confidence in JTS and Hall. Unfortunately the Bucs have a fews JAGS (just another guy) as pass rusher/edge guys. Kills me to say that but we have nothing.
I am equally worried about the Oline. I hope they spend half their 10 picks wisely on LT (or RT depending on Wirfs), OG/C and getting a pass rusher or two. Would love to see the Bucs nab a OT and the Minnesota center (John Michael Schmitz) and slide Jensen to OG. Let Goedeke be a swing guy at RT and OG.
One last thing and I have not seen anyone mention this since the season ended, what the Bucs do with the remainder of FA and the upcoming draft will be meaningless unless this team plays with a fire and passion this fall. Fire and passion flat out disappeared in the Bucs in ’22. I am no idea what happened last year but our play was so lackluster and lifeless virtually quarter after quarter after quarter. I said then and I will say it now I believe it is a reflection of the head coach and his staff. I hope I am dead wrong and we are a different squad attitude wise this year. I am 55 and have been a Bucs lifer since 1976 and I have never been more disappointed than 2022. Complete failure and I hold Licht and Bowles 100% accountable. That $h!t show is on them and I sure hope the changes they made set a new tone for this franchise.
March 17th, 2023 at 12:54 pm
Our defensive line needs lots of help.
March 17th, 2023 at 12:59 pm
Also think we need a Return Specialist…..NOT a rookie that is scared. A fearless crazy man with speed.
March 17th, 2023 at 1:15 pm
Both sides of the line need a major overhaul!! If not, I hope someone is handing out bottles of hgh!!! If the rebuild is half ashed, we will see teams run on us like last year(control the clock) and keep our offense off the field (another season of scoring 16 points a game) ugh!!!
March 17th, 2023 at 1:18 pm
Right on the money!!!!
March 17th, 2023 at 1:55 pm
The game is won largely in the trenches. If they don’t get better play than last year, on both sides, the results will be worse. I suspect they’ll play better on both side just because of the law of averages. No line can play as bad as our o line did last year. The Defensive line is another story. The 3-4 requires big Fatty’s, that can eat blocks. This allows linebackers to make the plays. I can’t see how they get much better up front on defense. Unless the dedicate plenty of draft capital, and hit on two guys, it’ll largely look the same
March 17th, 2023 at 2:21 pm
“six spots ahead of Josh Allen.”
——–
Who did Buffalo trade with to Allen? Oh right, the Buccaneers, who used the pick to take a part time player in Vita Vea.
March 17th, 2023 at 2:32 pm
Same issues they had all year this past year… the trenches.. but its easy to blame coaches
March 17th, 2023 at 2:40 pm
Building the way losers build
Consistent winners in this league build from the trenches back
But, as to be expected our HC is a perennial loser in his current job position- so it makes perfect sense that he is repeating the same mistakes again and again and again
It is a fact JL does what the HC says in this structure – it has been this way since day 1
On our way to 6 wins still
March 17th, 2023 at 3:06 pm
Dante Stills outta WVU would be a nice addition. Quick get off, great hands, could afford to bulk up, but could also be moved around the IDL
March 17th, 2023 at 3:14 pm
You’re preaching to the choir. We need O-Line and D-Line in this draft, starting with LT.
March 17th, 2023 at 3:16 pm
This is well said!
———————————-
“Andrew Fish Says:
March 17th, 2023 at 11:36 am
Robert Hainsey, Aaron Stinnie and Nick Leverett have already proven they can perform in this league. Goedeke should be moved back to his normal position at RT where he performed well in his one appearance there. I think this line is going to surprise people when you account for the new run scheme. A wide Zone run scheme combined with hopefully less predictable play calling will show what this crew can really do. Go Bucs”
——————————
Bengals just signed Orlando Brown away from the Chiefs. Might there be someone decent available from Cincy? They have been hoarding O lineman for the past 3 years.
March 17th, 2023 at 3:32 pm
An OT high but DLs early and often. They only have two that I have heard of, LOL.
March 17th, 2023 at 3:48 pm
Sign
• William Gholston
• A’ Shawn Robinson
Draft
• Keanu Benton
• Zach Harrison
• Kobi Turner
Potential Depth Chart
A’ Shawn Robinson | Keeanu Benton
Vita Vea | Kobi Turner
Will Gholston | Logan Hall | Zach Harrison
March 17th, 2023 at 3:56 pm
Preach Ira, preach!
You know what was dominant for us in 2020 and 2021? The trenches. On both sides of the ball.
This year? The o-line looks okay… while the D-line (including OLBs) looks… incomplete at best.
March 17th, 2023 at 4:33 pm
80forBrady … ‘Might there be someone decent available from Cincy? They have been hoarding O lineman for the past 3 years.’
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Cincy’s OLine gave up 44 sacks in 2022 and 55 in 2021. Mighty close to 100 sacks in 2 years with an excellent young, mobile QB in Burrows.
Bucs OLine gave up 22 sacks last year and 23 in 2021 in protecting their statue. Less than half of what Cincy’s OLine gave up. Why exactly would we want any of THEIR OLinemen?
Just my opinion, but I think Bengals are a pretty good team because they’re reasonably well BALANCED. Their offense ranked #7 and their defense ranked #6 last year. Anytime you get both sides of the ball in the Top-10, looks to me like you’ll have a pretty decent season. Of course it helps that they have a true franchise QB still on his 1st contract. Can’t wait to see what happens when he wants Patrick Mahomes-type money after this year.
March 17th, 2023 at 4:34 pm
LUVMYBUCS … I’m with you on re-signing Will Gholston. The big fella is still playing well & deserves a chance to retire as a Buc.
March 17th, 2023 at 4:49 pm
Day 10 of the Durable Donnie redemption tour.
What could possibly be stopping teams from sniffing his mad skills?
March 17th, 2023 at 5:04 pm
Suh is a free agent again
March 17th, 2023 at 5:11 pm
Defense Rules Says:
March 17th, 2023 at 4:34 pm
LUVMYBUCS … I’m with you on re-signing Will Gholston. The big fella is still playing well & deserves a chance to retire as a Buc.
———-
According to spotrac, the Bucs are only $1.2m under the cap and will still have to sign all their draft picks, so I don’t think they’ll be spending much.
Gholston currently has a dead cap hit of $2.4m, so if the Bucs resign him, I believe they can push that off onto next year, along with adding more void year money. I assume they’ll probably get for around $4m in actual cash, but only the vet minimum in terms of a cap hit.
March 17th, 2023 at 5:12 pm
DoooshLaRue Says:
March 17th, 2023 at 4:49 pm
Day 10 of the Durable Donnie redemption tour.
What could possibly be stopping teams from sniffing his mad skills?
———
You’re right on this one, a first time for everything. So, as you said, he clearly has zero value to anyone else, the Bucs should just resign him at the veteran minimum.
March 17th, 2023 at 5:24 pm
I would expect the trenches to be re-enforced via the draft & last cut castoff FA’s late in the process.
They’re be loads of value to be had Day2 / 3 on minimal coin w/ 4yrs of cheap control potential…(Righting the ships future ledger commitments w/ mid-round contracts is not a bad way to approach the reboot/reload).
I have unusually good optimism about what the FO will get accomplished this APR. (Rare, I know!)
March 17th, 2023 at 5:26 pm
OL DL and CB with our 1st 3 picks. There will be a couple of Line starters left by the time we draft in the 1st. Get one..or 2.
March 17th, 2023 at 5:42 pm
He played unmotivated @$15 mil, you think he’s really gonna give ANY effort at an extremely reduced rate?
March 17th, 2023 at 7:50 pm
@ Defense Rules
Agreed!
March 17th, 2023 at 8:33 pm
Rod … ‘Who did Buffalo trade with to Allen? Oh right, the Buccaneers, who used the pick to take a part time player in Vita Vea.’
The Bucs received the Bills 1st Round pick (#12) which they used for Vea, and ALSO TWO 2nd Round picks (#53 & #56). They traded around a bit more, but used their three 2nd Round picks on Rojo, MJ Stewart & Carlton Davis. Obviously the only 2 we still have are Vea & Davis, but that’s probably par for the course.
IF we’d stayed pat, we could’ve had Josh Allen & Carlton Davis. But then Jameis’ feelings would’ve been hurt, so that would’ve been a no-go.
March 17th, 2023 at 9:54 pm
“Mayfield doesn’t move well …”? Huh? Have you seen Mayfeild play, Ira? Do guys have to run like Hurts or Lamar for the media members to consider wheather or not a QB is mobile?
March 17th, 2023 at 11:15 pm
Defense Rules – Well, if the Bucs take Allen, then they don’t get Brady and won’t win a SB, well, most likely don’t win a SB. Also Winston the following year lead the league in passing, and if Licht doesn’t draft a kicker in 2019, Matt Gay, and he doesn’t lose two games single handedly and the 2019 Bucs are 9-7 instead of 7-9, and almost certainly resign Winston, which means the Bucs don’t win a SB, because they don’t have Brady. (I still think they’d have been in the playoffs for the last 3 years)
Also if the Bucs draft Allen in 2018, then Arians probably doesn’t take the job in 2019, since Arians said he wanted to work with Winston and in any case I doubt he’d have wanted to work with a 2nd year QB who had yet to show anything.
March 18th, 2023 at 7:26 am
Amen pastor Ira