Fitting Luke Goedeke Into A Position
March 22nd, 2023
Bucs OL Luke Goedeke.
Last year wasn’t the greatest rookie season for left guard Luke Goedeke.
And despite Goedeke struggling, Joe’s not throwing in the towel. Remember, Alex Cappa, also a small school tackle, struggled his rookie year adjusting to guard.
First, Goedeke was moving from right tackle to left guard. Goedeke played right tackle at Central Michigan. Flipping to a new position on a new side (right to left) from the MAC isn’t as simple as turning the key in the ignition of your rig.
Joe thinks there was something to the ‘tude Goedeke had when he took the field. It’s great to have a badass ‘tude, but football isn’t about who can be the best Ric Flair on the field, it’s about getting the job done in the trenches.
Probably Goedeke’s best game was the season finale when he started at right tackle. He looked comfortable and smooth. Then again, it was against the sad Dixie Chicks.
As a result, a lot of folks are begging the Bucs to move Tristan Wirfs to left tackle and plug-in Goedeke at right tackle.
This Joe has been clear that he is morally opposed to moving Wirfs. The man is dominant at right tackle and Joe is fundamentally opposed to fixing something that’s not broken.
For Joe, the thing that pretty much sealed being against moving Goedeke to right tackle full-time was an otherwise innocent Twitter from the former scouting director of the Bears, cranky Greg Gabriel.
During the combine, he posted this when the arm-length measurements were released on highly-rated Northwestern tackle Peter Skoronski.
“Skoronski’s arm measurement was 32 1/4”. That will move him inside to guard. Currently there are only 2 tackles playing in the League with arms shorter than 33”, and both measured longer than Skoronski. At tackle, arm length is imperative.”
What was Goedeke’s arm length measured at the combine in 2022? That would be 32 1/4 inches. So you can see why the Bucs moved Goedeke to guard right away. Arm length is key for a tackle.
Joe’s not big on banking on outliers. There is a reason only two NFL tackles have arms shorter than 33 inches. And with the Bucs having veteran offensive line coaches, Joe’s not buying they definitely will buck the NFL norm and move Goedeke to right tackle (or left tackle) full-time, unless the guy is otherwise dominant at tackle.
The Bucs may try Goedeke at right tackle. But if they do and he struggles, well, there’s probably a good reason — the same reason to keep him at guard.
Skoronski’s arm measurement was 32 1/4”. That will move him inside to guard. Currently there are only 2 tackles playing in the League with arms shorter than 33”, and both measured longer than Skoronski. At tackle, arm length is imperative
— Greg Gabriel (@ggabefootball) March 5, 2023
March 22nd, 2023 at 3:47 am
Short arms makes it so defenders can get in your pads to work you from the inside out. Partly why I think putting Goedeke at any tackle spot wouldn’t work is because he struggles against speed & bull rushes, and the lack of length showed watching him get tested on the inside against veteran NFL IDLmen using inside counters that kind of played Goedekes’ aggression against him, especially in the run game where he’d be eager to get to that 2nd lvl defender, allowing DTs to slip the crease Luke leaves behind and met our RBs at the point of attack.
We’ll see, moving him to RT sounds good, but until we see him applying himself in that role over a prolonged amount of time it’s safe to say there’d be a massive dip in talent between Wirfs at RT and Goedeke at RT, but that’s just my opinion.
March 22nd, 2023 at 4:41 am
95 percent of the offensive lineman struggle in their 1st season in the NFL. Wirfs was the exception. That includes guys taken in the 1st round.
Actually, Goedeke as a guard does not worry me. The OL coaches for the Bucs have proven they will get good production out of a guy in his 2nd season.
I think he will continue to be a guard.
March 22nd, 2023 at 4:45 am
Great analysis Dooley, thanks. I’m in agreement with the Joe that says ‘Don’t fix what’s not broke’. And the rationale for putting Luke at RG is sound, especially now that Shaq Mason is out of the picture. Keep Wirfs at RT, Jensen at Center & plug in Goedeke at LG & Hainsey (or Leverette) at RG and it all sounds workable.
Oh wait, we’d still need now is a bonafide Left Tackle to keep our QBs on the field & out of the hospital, wouldn’t we. No problem, that’s what the #19 pick in the draft can get us. We good.
March 22nd, 2023 at 5:19 am
Move him to RG seems obvious. Keep him on the right side and move him inside. And please let’s leave Wirfs at RT. we were better with Donavan Smith off the field last season so figure out how to plug the LT spot.
March 22nd, 2023 at 5:25 am
Would it make sense to play Goedeke at RG? Would the transition be any easier since he was used to playing on the right side of the line?
March 22nd, 2023 at 5:34 am
Right Guard seems like his best fit. Not everyone is Ali Marpet and can seamlessly switch sides of the line and flip their technique without a hitch so early in their careers like Ali could. Not everyone is meant to switch sides of the line and/or their play suffers or they are uncomfortable. I’m so one hand/arm dominant, I’d feel way out of place for a long time trying that. Albeit different sports, some aspects still apply, but not everybody can switch hit in baseball, or switch their shooting side in basketball and flip their technique or dominant hand/arm in that way either. It’s an uncomfortable move and everyone gets used to that at different paces, if at all w/o major dropoff in play. Just keep this guy at RT/RG for now in his career. Guard preferably. But he looks way more comfortable on the right side in his play in College and brief stint in the NFL.
March 22nd, 2023 at 6:04 am
They had no intention of starting him last year… stuff happens
March 22nd, 2023 at 6:44 am
With RG open, seems like RG would be the spot for Luke.
March 22nd, 2023 at 7:05 am
@Beej
Agreed, there was a domino effect that started with the Jensen injury that factored in when other OLmen got hurt. If I’m remembering correctly during last season we trotted out 11 different OL personnel groups shuffling our front primarily because of injuries. It effected our offenses capacity to function, but it wasn’t the only factor.
March 22nd, 2023 at 7:18 am
playing beside Wirfs and jensen seems like a perfect way to get Godecke up to speed. He looks like he would be a pretty good run blocker with his build, but its time to take next step in pass blocking. Hopefully Jensen and Wirfs can help .
March 22nd, 2023 at 7:23 am
So if everything falls into place perfectly we can expect a 6-11 record.
The excitement is palpable.
March 22nd, 2023 at 7:26 am
You should not have this problem with an offensive lineman you pick in the second round and actually traded up for. Very bad scouting.
March 22nd, 2023 at 7:33 am
2 out of 64 Tackles with arm length less than 33 inches……that’s tells us something.
It seems to me that Goedeke would do better at RG than LG……..but they are talking about Hainsey going there…….we have some depth with Leverette & Stinnie signed. Draft a Tackle and we are good to go.
March 22nd, 2023 at 8:05 am
Goed-Awful Year 1…he can no longer shove around undersized D-Lineman from mid-majors. Hopefully he can make a Cappa-like leap Year 2…the offense will need the 2nd rounder who The Bucs traded up for.
March 22nd, 2023 at 8:31 am
They should try 67 at RG
March 22nd, 2023 at 8:38 am
Donald Penn had pretty short arm length and he had a decent career with the Bucs at Tackle- even made the Pro Bowl.
Still have the draft to see what Bucs do…
March 22nd, 2023 at 9:00 am
Steve Avila in the 2nd if we move Wirfs to LT….Jaylen Duncan for LT if not. But I think Wirfs wants LT money, so its up to him. Avila is very versatile and has played all positions except LT….and 33” arms
March 22nd, 2023 at 9:32 am
I’m fine with moving/keeping him inside. That creates a lot of competition and great depth with him, Hainsey, Leverette and Stinnie for the interior O-line. As for tackle, Jonah Williams is available but I must say I was actually impressed with what Brandon Walton did for us the game he played for D. Smith last year so he might worth a look as well. Plus the draft. We have a few options for the spot opposite Wirfs, wherever he lines up.
March 22nd, 2023 at 9:32 am
If all the fake Bucs fans think we will plummet this year, it will be a good sense of Goedeke wherever they decide to put him, and he won’t change positions mid season, so let’s see what he’s got. If Wirfs wasn’t one of the top OL, I would easily say move him to LT, but could affect his game for the worse. Right now, we have two very below average QB, which has a very large influence on OL.
March 22nd, 2023 at 9:47 am
He is said to be a Glass Eater ?
March 22nd, 2023 at 10:58 am
67 was bad. He was beat with inside and outside moves, and didn’t look strong at the poa. Not sure why we spent a 2nd on a rt from a MAC school only to move to LG. Again, I watch a lot of college ball. Draft from the big boys, especially of late they have been turning out a slew of players. MAC is not the SEC, ACC, Big10, etc. More importantly draft from the better teams in those conferences early on.. MAC, SWAC later.
Never move Tristan. Remember when we moved Ali? That should never of happened.
As for these excuses about players being rookis. Look around the league, it’s a young man’s game. Most teams have rooks start and contribute. Not sure why we make excuses. We should have high standards.
March 22nd, 2023 at 11:35 am
“Most teams have rooks start and contribute.”
We too had rookies start and contribute, doesn’t necessarily mean they were playing at their respective peaks, but even then they still contributed to the team effort.
March 22nd, 2023 at 11:38 am
Goedonkey sure sucks at guard.
March 22nd, 2023 at 11:39 am
So Goedeke’s arms are 3 quarters of an inch to short to play tackle? Seems rediculous, but my wife assures me 3 quarters of an inch can make a big difference! All kidding aside this is why Licht should draft guys to play the position they did in college. You want a guard? Find one who’s done it at a high level for three years in college. Don’t mention Marpet, he wasn’t a prennial pro bowler, and wasted years of his career moving him around.
March 22nd, 2023 at 11:45 am
Found some good source information on shorter arms that I am sharing.
All things being equal, a tackle with a longer reach is going to have an advantage over one with a shorter reach. The long answer though is a little more complicated.
Length difference plays the biggest role when establishing initial contact. For the same reason that the reaches of boxers are always listed before a fight, the reach difference between the offensive tackle and defender he’s blocking can dictate who lands the first strike. A 36”-armed edge rusher can stick out one hand into the chest of a 33”-armed offensive tackle and the tackle won’t be able to touch the defender’s shoulder pads.
In 2019, a guy a lot of Bucs fans wanted us to take in the 1st round instead of White was Jonah Williams.
His arms measured in at 33 5/8” and he has had a bad career for the 11th overall pick that year.
By the way, Tristen Wirfs is 34 even. That was less than the three tackles that went before him in the 2020 draft.
Andrew Thomas was 36 1/8
Jedrick Willis was 34 2/8
Mekhi Becton was 35 5/8
March 22nd, 2023 at 11:51 am
@Bigz
The offensive lineman drafted last year were very crappy as a whole. The number of sacks and penalties for rookie offensive lineman were very high last year.
Goedeke contributed about equally to those other OL.
March 22nd, 2023 at 12:02 pm
It’ll be easier to find a RT in the draft than a LT. Try Wirfs at LT. A stud LT is more important fjan a stud RT.
March 22nd, 2023 at 12:07 pm
I’ll pound the mat again and say that Goedeke can be a very good guard but not LG. He needs to compete at RG. Moving Mason almost means Goedeke will be at RG. Jensen at C, I’m guessing for only one year, if he fully recovers and can play. We don’t know if he can handle a full season yet. This draft is loaded with 2 and 3 year starters at LT in college with long arms and NFL bodies. I’m drafting two of them from rounds 1-3, even trading out of the first round to grab a couple additional picks. I think Hainsey should compete at LG. Stinnie and Leverett are good quality backups but not starters.
March 22nd, 2023 at 12:19 pm
People’s lack of patience for rookies is kinda ridiculous. Sometimes rookies sh!t the bed, and it has nothing to do with their future.
Your starting guards are Hainsey and Goedeke with the right/left still to be determined. Leverett is the top reserve, though they could bring in another road-grader in the draft.
March 22nd, 2023 at 12:35 pm
He was the third choice at LG and it should have been Leverett all along after Marpet retired and Stinnie went down
I am in the RG camp for him – a year of adjusting to the speed and putting him back to his right hand lead
we need to draft a LT or sign a vet FA to stop gap – leave Wirfs where he is
Let Stinnie and Leverett battle it out for LG
March 22nd, 2023 at 1:41 pm
The consensus seems to be that we need to draft a QB next month. Draft a left handed QB, leave Wirfs where he is, and LT won’t be our highest priority. Just kidding, sort of. Are there any outstanding southpaw QBs available in this draft? Just a hunch, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the Bucs win more games with whoever, than they did last season with Brady. It’s a team game, and this could end up being a better team.
March 22nd, 2023 at 2:57 pm
Maybe guard or tackle ?
Guard the water bucket
Tackle anyone who gets close
March 22nd, 2023 at 3:09 pm
Jeffery Simmons?
March 22nd, 2023 at 4:50 pm
Agreed, it makes ZERO sense to move a lineman that is CLEARLY on a HOF trajectory after just a couple seasons. It’s never good to coach “down” to a weakness. He needs to step up and quite frankly he will if he is a NFL player. I have confidence in him. I have a little less confidence with our season with all the changes and it has ZERO to do with not being a true Bucs fan, Bowles hater, etc etc. It’s facts, we have a Division winning schedule, multiple changes in key personnel, and a completely new offense. We do have veterans and a solid core but that doesn’t change the fact we are installing a new run heavy offense, head coach with a run the ball down your throat and ball control mentality plus a roster of players that do not excel at that new style yet. The chemistry of this team is a HUGE question mark, the new coaches, for better or for worse, are unproven and while I like the new O.C. The fact remains it takes time for it all to gel. 6-11 is NOT that far off. Objectfully, with all our changes, I like to think 7-10 or 8-9. We invested in a new O.C. And I would like to see an offensive lineman at 19.
March 22nd, 2023 at 9:52 pm
Idk what the Bucs will do. I like the idea of trying Wirfs at LT but I also get the idea of not breaking a guy who is already really good at another spot. If we kee him at RT then our target in the first should be Paris Johnson if the Bucs are flipping him then I would take the Dawand Jones who might make it to the Bucs in the second round.
March 22nd, 2023 at 10:54 pm
You want your best linemen to be at the most important spot( by far) on the line.
Of course Wirfs will be our LT. Not even a question.
And Im sure Wirfs wouldnt mind the big raise he’d get as a LT.
Goedeke should have set last year- but Our former left guard
really shafted us, by retiring so suddenly-apparently with no heads up.
Hopefully Goedeke makes a leap this year.
Shouldnt have a problem drafting a big monster Right tackle.
March 23rd, 2023 at 6:57 am
Wirfs-Hainsey-Jensen-Goedeke-ROOKIE, I bet. Unless Paris Johnson drops to 19.
March 23rd, 2023 at 1:12 pm
@LUVMYBUCS
If you wanted Jeffrey Simmons in 20119, that was a very great call. Just like the rest of us, sometimes we don’t see the best moves.
LUVMYBUCS Says:
April 23rd, 2020 at 8:50 pm
Well Thomas is off the board.
Unless the Alabama kid drops — there’s no need to pick a tackle in the 1st