You Have One Job
February 23rd, 2023
Fix him.
The hiring of former Cowboys defensive coach George Edwards by Bucs coach Todd Bowles to coach outside linebackers recalls for Joe the time when Todd Monken arrived in Tampa.
Monken, after leaving the Bucs following the 2018 season, spent three years running Georgia’s offense and winning two national titles. Monken is now the Baltimore Crows’ offensive coordinator.
Monken was hired by Bucs coach Dirk Koetter in 2016 to coach receivers along with being offensive coordinator in title only. Koetter was the playcaller. But when Monken arrived, Koetter gave Monken one standing order: Fix Mike Evans.
At the time Evans was racking up yards but seemed unrefined, unpolished and undisciplined. He was dropping quite a few balls and was quickly establishing himself as a hothead who frequently got into hassles with defenders.
This was happening so frequently that Joe was convinced Evans was being bird-dogged by refs waiting for him to remotely slip up so they could flag him, and subsequently push the Bucs back 15 yards.
Not only did Monken “fix” Evans, there is also a reasonable argument to be made that Evans may someday have a bust in Canton.
Fast forward to today. In Joe’s mind, Edwards, like Monken in 2016, has but one job: Fix Joe Tryon-Shoyinka.
Joe is starting to believe JTS is a misused 43-front defensive end. He had just as many sacks last year as he did in his rookie season, despite logging significantly more snaps. That’s not progression, especially when you factor in JTS started 10 more games last season than in 2021.
In fact, one could argue JTS slipped last year. He had fewer quarterback hurries and fewer quarterback pressures. JTS did have four more quarterback hits in 2022 than in his rookie season, though he had nearly 300 more snaps on defense.
After two seasons, JTS is a lesser player than Gaines Adams at the same point in his career. Ouch.
So in Joe’s mind, Edwards’ job really should be singular. Find a way to develop and get production from the Bucs’ first-round pick in 2020. With Bucs sack king Shaq Barrett a major question mark coming off a blown Achilles, it is imperative JTS step up.
If JTS has a similar season in 2023 to the numbers he has put up his first two seasons, folks are going to start using the B-word on him. With a fair degree of justification.
February 23rd, 2023 at 12:08 pm
Counting on JTS at this point is just silly but that’s where they are.
February 23rd, 2023 at 12:10 pm
its not there…he’s a wasted 1st rounder thats a backup….I never understood this pick Mr. Licht, you’re stupid sometimes dude!
February 23rd, 2023 at 12:14 pm
he can’t play the run
February 23rd, 2023 at 12:15 pm
He just isn’t, or doesn’t play strong enough. Curious as to what he benched at the combine. He just doesn’t play with power, not sure you can teach being strong.
February 23rd, 2023 at 12:23 pm
“You don’t pump weights on the 50-yard line.” — Warren Sapp.
February 23rd, 2023 at 12:24 pm
I just keep watching the guy bounce off the tackle over and over to no avail
February 23rd, 2023 at 12:27 pm
@Hodad,
I’d be more interested to see his clean and jerk numbers – that’s how one gets “power.” Bench numbers are good, too, but have limited value depicting football strength.
February 23rd, 2023 at 12:41 pm
If we go after a LB, then give me Trenton Simpson with a 3rd…yes he’s a little small, and needs more power to back up his frame, but he’s quick, the fight is there…many mocks have him going 2nd, I say a 3rd or 4th.
February 23rd, 2023 at 12:51 pm
I think we were expecting too much of JTS last year. He did not have a lot of reps between his college career and his rookie year, and he was a VERY LATE first round pick at 32. I think he looked OK out there this year as a full-time starter, at times showing flashes of the athleticism, and at other times showing his youth and lack of awareness. This third year will be the determining year, as it can be for a lot of young edge guys. Too early to call him a bust: this is the year to make a significant leap.
February 23rd, 2023 at 12:54 pm
He’s too lean and doesnt have the play strength to be an every down player. We missed a golden opportunity to bring in DE help last year, and instead settled on a cheap deal with Carl Nassib. Barrett is older and coming off of a major injury. Lavonte is moving on. The back end wont be the same. The D is going to stink out loud next season.
February 23rd, 2023 at 1:00 pm
If Tryon does not break out this year? He never will. And sadly, I suspect he will not. He will be serviceable and flash occasionally. But don’t expect this kid to develop into a beast. It’s just not there.
February 23rd, 2023 at 1:09 pm
I once heard an NFL player say that bench strength was a good measure of how fast you could push a player off you when you were on the bottom of a pile. There are too many variables to bench strength. Players with longer arms are always going to have lower reps than players with shorter arms with equivalent strength. A squat is a much better measure of overall strength since players are doing a variation of a squat all game long. And by that I mean to gain leverage they are very often in a quarter squad position and exploding out of that. And as mentioned before, some of the Olympic lifts also translate better to explosive strength. The bench press is an old relic of the combine that gives a very general measure of non-absolute strength in a position that players rarely have to leverage out of.
February 23rd, 2023 at 1:13 pm
He’s not good….not effective, anyone watching can see he looks outmatched and out of position constantly.
February 23rd, 2023 at 1:17 pm
DEVIN WHITE – I know this post is about JTS. But with the new coordinators from Dallas wondering if the bucs might put devin white on the outside every once in a while. Devin white is no Micah Parsons, but what if the bucs could use him more like Parsons. Say develop one pass rush move besides speed and just blitz him ovc the edge vs up the guy all the time. Besides the bucs 2020 post season where white was an absolute monster vs the run and pass, white seems to get best in the pass more often than not. Why not take advantage and rush him more this year? Thoughts?
February 23rd, 2023 at 1:19 pm
MadMax Says:
February 23rd, 2023 at 12:41 pm
If we go after a LB, then give me Trenton Simpson with a 3rd…yes he’s a little small, and needs more power to back up his frame, but he’s quick, the fight is there…many mocks have him going 2nd, I say a 3rd or 4th.
^^^^^^^^^^^
Maybe drafting another pass rusher will set a fire under JTS, knowing his playing time/job is on the line.
MadMax: You like Duncan, the OT from Maryland, more than Tyler Steen (OT from Alabama via Vanderbilt, the Harvard of the South)?
February 23rd, 2023 at 1:21 pm
He’ll get plenty of reps along with the rest of the defense this fall
February 23rd, 2023 at 1:24 pm
BUCS basically did not participate in the 2021 draft. And hell besides Wirfs, they haven’t gotten any contribution from anyone since the 2019 draft.
February 23rd, 2023 at 1:25 pm
Since the topic came up, out of curiosity, the current World Record for bench press, set in 2022, is a mind-blowing 1,320 pounds. Not kilos, pounds.
Holy cow!
February 23rd, 2023 at 1:28 pm
Plan 9 should play in a Tutu. Get him out.
February 23rd, 2023 at 1:30 pm
“chicken legs”
February 23rd, 2023 at 1:36 pm
JTS: this is what you get when you draft a guy who opted out of his final year…..
February 23rd, 2023 at 1:37 pm
“JTS did have four more quarterback hits in 2022 than in his rookie season, though he had nearly 300 more snaps on defense.”
a bit of an misleading exaggeration, because the difference in combined snaps on defense and special teams from year 2(860 reps) to year 1(704 repa) for JTS is +156 more combined snaps in 2022. Also was blitzed a bit less in year 2 than he was in year 1.
Now can JTS improve? yes, play recognition needs work, I’d like to see him work better on crashing down less, being more imposing setting the edge, and developing his moves as a rusher. Also would like to still see him spy QBs, sink into shallow zones, or lineup at MLB and confuse the hell out of the opposing QB. IDK what Joe is seeing that makes you believe he’s a 4-3 DE playing out of position, because the athleticism and the numerous amounts of hats he’s been asked to where since being drafted is much more complex than putting his hand in the dirt and working chipping away at the pocket on a rep to rep basis.
February 23rd, 2023 at 1:40 pm
DRok, while true that’s in one of those ridiculous bench suits. Adds anywhere from 200 to 300 lb on your lift depending on strength and form. Look for the raw bench record which is far more impressive since it’s basically a guy in a shirt benching.
February 23rd, 2023 at 1:40 pm
Tom, he actually tried to opt back in but they wouldn’t let him. Not making any excuses for the guy, but that’s the story there.
February 23rd, 2023 at 1:47 pm
The Hall pick is also one to question at this point…..if we bust on both JTS & Hall, that will be a disaster.
February 23rd, 2023 at 1:48 pm
I know pass rushing is a skill that takes time to develop and I’m willing to give JTS another year to prove it.
February 23rd, 2023 at 2:04 pm
Whatever he benched, jerked really doesn’t matter. My eyes tell me he plays weak. If he can’t get around you with speed it’s over. Once he hits an O.T. he gets stoned at the line of scrimmage. Pass rusher needs speed, and power. That’s why JTS is only half as good as most rushers. Don’t see how you fix weak.
February 23rd, 2023 at 2:05 pm
So much for having a defensive background HC to get the best out of him. Since Bowles sucks, now we have to depend on another coach. Dude is soft. Wasted pick. Anthony Nelson is much better and should be re-signed.
February 23rd, 2023 at 2:16 pm
‘Joe is starting to believe JTS is a misused 43-front defensive end.’
I’ve been thinking the same thing Joe. Starting to wonder if that also might be the case with Hall (he bulked up to 280-285 lbs for the Combine over the 260-265 lbs that he played at in college; not sure he can put on yet another 20 lbs or so and be effective inside). BOTH of them look to me like they’d be better suited to a 4-3 alignment.
Hiring George Edwards got me curious. He’s got an exceptional background, and it’s ALL 4-3. Bowles seems to love ‘experimenting’ with different defensive looks, and I’m wondering now if that’s what he might have in mind with the 3-4 hybrid that he runs. We don’t have the beef upfront to stop the run (his Job 1) AND get consistent pressure on opposing QBs with just 3 DLinemen. Maybe he’s gonna experiment with more 4 upfront looks on obvious run situations.
I think a key indicator will be what Bowles does with our ILB group. Right now we’re thin as can be. We’ve got White on his 5th year (I have doubts we’ll sign him to a long-term contract), and we’ve also got Britt (haven’t been impressed). Beyond that we’ve also got JJ Russell under contract and that’s it (both Britt & Russell got 45 def snaps each last season … doesn’t scream ‘Put me in coach’).
I wouldn’t mind re-signing Kwon to a 1-year trial contract to beef up our ILB group. Always thought he was misused in the middle, and was better suited outside where he played at LSU. FA right now (played with the Jets last year for $1.3 mil). Played in all 17 games for them last year with 539 def snaps; still only 28 years old. Would also love to see us re-sign LVDto finish out his career as a Buc, but it’d have to be for about half of what he made last year.
February 23rd, 2023 at 2:34 pm
^ I still think they’re too small (especially JTS) in a 4-3 alignment as well, personally. Maybe that would work for Hall
But as for JTS, I mean… how is him lining up as DE in a 4-3 going to make him suddenly able to stop the run?
February 23rd, 2023 at 2:56 pm
@Joe, thanks for the rec…I’ll look into him…too much job and life right now, but I’ll check him out.
February 23rd, 2023 at 2:59 pm
Wrong Way…he always tries to go the wrong way around the Tackle. He is totally unable to go through the block. Then he chases after the ball carrier a bit and pounds his chest when another Buc makes the play.
February 23rd, 2023 at 3:11 pm
I recall all the so-called fans calling for Mike Evans to be cut in 2015, because of all the things Joe said here, including his leading the league in dropped balls. I certainly opposed that kind of thinking then, and the results are obvious.
When it comes to young players, coaches, not the head coach or even the coordinators, but mostly the position coaches can indeed made a big difference in their performance. They’re the unsung heroes on teams, where HCs and OCs/DCs get all the credit when things are good, and blame when things are not so good.
February 23rd, 2023 at 3:42 pm
If you dont think EVERY Team in the NFL “counts” on their 1st round draft pick to reach peak production every year you shouldnt be allowed to make comments on here.
February 23rd, 2023 at 4:24 pm
Agree, the Logan Hall pick is also very questionable at this point. Two top pick misses on the Dline will set a team back years.
February 23rd, 2023 at 4:29 pm
“Find a way to develop and get production from the Bucs’ first-round pick in 2020.”
My understanding is that the prototypical NFL outside linebacker would be around 6 foot 3 inches and 175 pounds. JTS is listed with a height of 6-6 and a weight of 259.
He is either skinny for an NFL player at his height or he is considered lean and mean. With today’s state of the art sports science surely he could have bulked up by at least 20 or 25 pounds without adversely affecting his quickness or speed. According to what I can find out he started in 16 games last year and 6 his first year. He is credited with 11 more combined tackles, 4 more QB hits and the same amount of sacks (4) for last year over his previous season.
Anyone have any specific suggestions on what coach Edwards can do to guide JTS to higher productivity? I, too, hope that we can draft an OLB in the first three rounds who has high potential as a pass rusher.
February 23rd, 2023 at 5:01 pm
We’re supposed to wait until the 2023 season, to watch him suck all over the place with his headless chicken routine again, before declaring him a bust.
That’s appropriate, that’s the positive way.
February 23rd, 2023 at 6:48 pm
I said at the time I’d personally never draft a guy who sat out a year of football because he was scared of getting a cold. That’s not someone who is going to run through a wall for you.
February 23rd, 2023 at 7:01 pm
unbelievable Says:
February 23rd, 2023 at 2:34 pm
^ I still think they’re too small (especially JTS) in a 4-3 alignment as well, personally. Maybe that would work for Hall
————-
To be a 4-3 pass rushing end, you really only need to be about 265 or so. It’s obviously not bad to be bigger, but smaller DE’s can certainly have a ton of success, and have done so in the past. To be a 3-4 OLB, ideally he’s be a bit quicker. His 40-time of 4.68 is OK, but his 10 and 20 yard splits are below average, which matches his play – in that I can’t recall him ever being very explosive. Why he might be a better DE is that his height, wingspan, arm length, all that stuff is quite good, so if he was lined up on the line, he might knock down a bunch of passes, or even get some cheap sack/fumbles where he manages to stick out his arm and knock the ball out of a QB’s hands even if he’s blocked.
In any case he’s not going anywhere and the Bucs should figure out how to use him best.
February 23rd, 2023 at 7:39 pm
Defense. DW45,Kwon n LVD would be a beast of a LB group. Kwon wasn’t terrible just wanted to much money n did get hurt a lot. DW45 hopefully he’s improving cause he has it all to be great just got to get the mind rigjt and we all know LVD is a future hall of fame guy. Those 3 would wreck havoc