Very Surprising Stat On Bucs Pass Rush
February 20th, 2023
Found a way.
Joe wrote last night how Joe Tyron-Shoyinka hasn’t lived up to his first-round draft selection status. He had as many sacks (four) last season as he did in his rookie season.
When Joe asked Bucs coach Todd Bowles if he would be looking for an edge rusher this offseason, whether in the draft (again) or free agency, Bowles confessed the Bucs need to get more sacks from the outside linebacker position.
(Point of reference: At the 2018 combine, Joe remembers sitting to then-Bucs coach Dirk Koetter’s immediate right at a round table. Joe asked Koetter a similar question. Joe vividly recalls Koetter, almost gritting his teeth, staring straight into Joe’s eyes and saying firmly, “We need more than 22 sacks.” Not quite a month later, Bucs AC/DC-loving general manager Jason Licht stole Jason Pierre-Paul from the Giants for a third-round pick. JPP had 12.5 of the Bucs’ 38 sacks that season.)
The 2022 numbers show the Bucs got to the quarterback. Would you believe (said in a Maxwell Smart voice) that the Bucs led the NFL in quarterback hits? It’s true!
The Bucs finished with 452 quarterback hits. That is pretty good for a team whose top edge rusher in sacks was Anthony Nelson with 5.5.
Also, the Bucs last season ranked seventh in the NFL in sacks with 45. Again, notice the best edge rusher for the Bucs had a paltry 5.5.
So Joe has to give props to Bowles for finding ways to get at quarterbacks despite pedestrian, at best, production from the edge rushers.
And yes, Bowles is correct. With the jury still out on JTS and Bucs sack king Shaq Barrett turning 30 with a blown out Achilles, the Bucs need to find someone at outside linebacker to get sacks.
February 20th, 2023 at 4:31 am
Which is why priority #1 should be drafting an edge rusher! We need a pass rush, badly. I’m pessimistic about Shaq, and we have nothing with JTS9, as of now. I sure hope we do something. Maybe a first or second (at latest) round pick and in the later rounds that Isaiah Land kid from Florida A&M that Mr. Sullivan has spoken about.
February 20th, 2023 at 4:45 am
Joe … ‘The Bucs finished with 452 quarterback hits.’
Not sure where y’all came up with that number Joe. PFR says that the Bucs had 104 QB hits total in 2022.
Totally agree with the bottom line: ‘With the jury still out on JTS and Bucs sack king Shaq Barrett turning 30 with a blown out Achilles, the Bucs need to find someone at outside linebacker to get sacks.’ (Could also add to that the possibility that we MIGHT not be able to re-sign Nelson)
February 20th, 2023 at 5:34 am
I’d like for the Bucs to get an edge rusher in the draft, for sure. Maybe 2nd or 3rd Round?
February 20th, 2023 at 6:36 am
Lets see we need a quarterback, edge rusher, inside ljnebacker,, two defensive backs, a safety, defensive line( because Hall may not pan out), and if we trade or release someone that position also. Lots of holes to fill.
February 20th, 2023 at 6:50 am
Joe in Michigan,
I’ve been dreaming of a truly dominant edge rusher in the first round. Have we had that guy EVER? Well, one that we were half intelligent enough “not to” let walk out of the door, FOR FREE?
You know our problem has always been drafting the future. Always… I have to admit that Jason Licht is “overall” the Best drafter we’ve had but without a STELLAR draft this year he’s going to be losing a lot of ground.
With 2 drafts in a row of first round BUSTS we are in a difficult position. I’m still holding out hope for a sudden pleasant surprise from them but let’s get real. As someone mentioned yesterday he’s been filling for need and NOT BPA. And I get that from rounds 3 thru infinity and he’s done a good job for the most part. BUT these last 2 (our first picks), considered to be THE BEST OPPORTUNITY POSSIBLE to pick a franchise WINNER, he’s come up Short.
To say that Tryon is anything more than “just a guy” at this point is becoming an embarrassment to first rounders everywhere. And the Hall kid showed almost Nothing his first year.
Just as location, location, location is to real estate, talent, talent, talent is to Pro football. And these two guys though very gifted, they simply haven’t shown the talent to be special among others. Hall has more room but this year he HAS TO shine to a minimum of “noticeable”.
I’m sorry to say that there is No Sizzle in those pans. No fire is flaring up from the light smoke there. Probably most will say “hey it’s his first time in the pros”. AND I WOULD COUNTER THAT THERE HASN’T BEEN ANY LESS THAT 90% OF ANY OF THE GREATS WERE AT LEAST THROWING OFF VERY NOTICEABLE SPARKS THAT BECAME WILDFIRES “IN THEIR FIRST YEARS”.
There are no noticeable trademarks coming off these guys.
Can debate all day where they were in the first 32/33 of the draft. Or this, and the that’s, and the all in between “possible reasons” for being pretty much unnoticeable. However the TRUE tell tale signs aren’t they on Sundays.
He NEEDS and great draft this year. We desperately NEED to find fresh new LEGENDS for the Buccaneers. Especially in the early rounds and a franchise Edge would be a nice start in round number 1!
February 20th, 2023 at 6:59 am
Online first round, Kendon Hooker second
February 20th, 2023 at 7:16 am
The mighty Chase Young: 1.5 sacks in his NFL career. Draft potential doesn’t always translate
February 20th, 2023 at 7:39 am
We’re not spending a 1st rounder on another OLB prospect as that particular class isn’t necessarily stacked with day 1 talent for the 2023 draft, BUT there are some prospects with the measurables for what’s asked of OLBs in this defense that can help support the run defense on the way to the QB. Spending a 1st round pick isn’t just automatically guaranteeing you a double-digit sack players, still gotta develop the talent with the hopes the player can fufill their role. Don’t doubt us taking a shot at an OLB prospect, just saying don’t be upset if it isn’t on day 1 or day 2 with the holes we have as of today. The evidence of this article, is that pressure & sacks are biproducts of the on-field application of Bowles scheme having 14 players recording at least 1 sack over the course of the season.
February 20th, 2023 at 7:53 am
We need a sure thing in round one…….the last two were Wirfs & Vea……I’d say we need a CB to likely replace Dean or a LB to replace LVD…
We should be able to find a sure thing at those two positions at 19,……
February 20th, 2023 at 8:29 am
Just a thought on what Dooley mentioned briefly….developing talent!! Everyone is pretty much aware of Bowles coaching inadequacy but the one thing being overlooked is the critical development of talent. Where the he’ll is that? A quick look around the league and it doesn’t take long to see it on many teams….e g. Chiefs rb Pacheco and 3 rookie dB starting in the SB!!! Everywhere across the league you see it…except TB. Bud Lyghts drafting is questionable at best but it’s exacerbated by the coaches inability to develop and trust the young players….Tompkins cut early on but Jarden stays? The young players must be coached up and play….just sayin
February 20th, 2023 at 8:35 am
Beej, Young had seven and a half his rookie year. Then he had a bad knee injury his second year. He’ll be fine once he gets healthy.
February 20th, 2023 at 8:43 am
Joe, that’s an average of nearly 27 QB hits per game. That’s extremely unlikely, near impossible. Need to double check that stat.
February 20th, 2023 at 8:59 am
Yep, Steven007, agree. That would equate to a hit almost every opponent’s pass play. Whilst I would LOVE to see that in the future, I certainly didn’t see nuffin’ close to that all last year. What’s that old saying…”check yo sheets?” LOL
February 20th, 2023 at 9:12 am
My first round pick (so far)? Kelee Ringo, CB, Georgia. Will he be there? Who knows, and I’ll probably change my mind come draft time.
February 20th, 2023 at 9:24 am
“Steven007 Says:
February 20th, 2023 at 8:35 am
Beej, Young had seven and a half his rookie year. Then he had a bad knee injury his second year. He’ll be fine once he gets healthy”
Yeah you right, I went back two years instead of three
February 20th, 2023 at 9:47 am
From the NFL. Don’t know what “PFR” is.
February 20th, 2023 at 9:48 am
For a team that blitzed the 10th most at 28.3% , that is OK , but would rather have better pass rush from dline without blitzing as much. Hall and JTS need to prove or go away.
February 20th, 2023 at 10:14 am
Shaq will be back and better then ever!
February 20th, 2023 at 10:38 am
BuckyPhillips Says:
February 20th, 2023 at 10:14 am
Shaq will be back and better then ever!
^^^^^^^^
This would be great, another season like the 19.5 sack season!
February 20th, 2023 at 10:40 am
After 10’ Jason drafts our pass rusher is …..?
February 20th, 2023 at 10:46 am
Joe, forget about the source for a moment and think about it logically. Did it seem to you like we hit the quarterback 28 times per game?! Is that what your eyes saw? Because I saw games where it didn’t seem like we were within breathing distance of the quarterback. And during games where we got a couple of sacks, did we seem to hit the quarterback an additional 20 plus times? It’s an erroneous statistic one way or the other. What constitutes a hit? If a defender brushes the quarterback before or after he releases a pass, not impacting him whatsoever, is that considered a hit? Again, 400 plus times is fantasyland.
February 20th, 2023 at 10:52 am
BuckyPhillips Says:
February 20th, 2023 at 10:14 am
A 30+ year old guy recovering from an achilles injury, playing up to his previous standard, especially at a position where explosiveness is required, would be a miracle. The Bucs can’t count on miracles. They have to draft some edge guys.
February 20th, 2023 at 11:09 am
Joe … ‘From the NFL. Don’t know what “PFR” is.’
Sorry, the Pro-Football-Reference site. You’ve referenced it quite a bit before. Sometimes it seems like your algorithm kicks comments back if we reference websites like that. No idea why.
February 20th, 2023 at 11:18 am
sasquatch … If you look at Shaq’s production season-by-season, that year (2019) was certainly awesome (and an exception). In 8 years he’s got 54.5 sacks, slightly less than 7 sacks per season average. Take away that 1 year with 19.5 sacks, and his sack average drops to exactly 5 sacks per season for those other 7 years. And in the 3 years with Tampa since that monster year, Shaq has averaged 7 sacks per year (2020-2022).
That’s more along the lines of what we can expect from Shaq once he gets all healed up … 7 sacks per year. In his 8 games last season before getting hurt, he only had 3 sacks. He missed JPP & Suh me thinks.
February 20th, 2023 at 11:33 am
JTS report card after two seasons is a big F.
He plays like Jane. O Lineman still just push him around every single game.
Cut this bum today.
February 20th, 2023 at 11:33 am
Yup Shaq would have an easier time of it had not the last two seasons we had zero threat from the opposite side
February 20th, 2023 at 11:37 am
Who do you guys have in mind, and in what round?
February 20th, 2023 at 11:43 am
JTS has been building that experience kinda how DE/OLB used to take 3-4 years to develop hope he gets hot and break 10 sacks that would be amazing. Realistically we need to draft another elite pass rush prospect
February 20th, 2023 at 12:16 pm
NFL Edge Rushers who have recovered from knee injuries and remained productive after turning 29+
Elvis Dumervil– Dumervil tore his Achilles at age 29 in 2010 while playing for the Denver Broncos. He returned to play in 2011 and recorded 9.5 sacks in 14 games played, and 11 sacks in 16 games played in 2012.
Terrell Suggs – Suggs tore his Achilles at age 29 in 2012.
In the two years following his surgery, he recorded 21 sacks – 10 in 2013 and 11 in 2014.
Cameron Wake – Wake suffered a torn Achilles at age 33 in 2015. In the two years following his surgery, he recorded 18.5 sacks – 11.5 in 2016 and 7 in 2017.
Jason Pierre-Paul – Pierre-Paul suffered a torn Achilles at age 32 in 2019 while playing for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. He returned to play for the team in 2020 and recorded 9.5 sacks in 16 games played, helping the Buccaneers win Super Bowl LV.
While these players serve as examples of success, there are also numerous cases where players were unable to regain their prior levels of productivity following an injury. We remain hopeful that Shaq and his family will experience a positive outcome.
February 20th, 2023 at 12:18 pm
@Richard – well I think you could argue that it was Bowles who has developed Carlton Davis, Jamel Dean, Antoine Winfield, etc…
We obviously need JTS and Hall to start producing next season.
February 20th, 2023 at 1:28 pm
Examples of Rookie Edge Rushers who had low productivity in their first two seasons, followed by an increase in productivity
Michael Bennett – Tampa Bay Buccaneers / Seattle Seahawks:
* Year 1 (2009): 1.0 sacks
* Year 2 (2010): 1.0 sacks
* Year 3 (2011): 4.0 sacks
Cameron Jordan (9 sacks total 1st 2yrs)
* Year 1 (2010): 1.0 sacks
* Year 2 (2011): 8.0 sacks
* Year 3 (2012): 12.5 sacks
Jerry Hughes – Buffalo Bills:
* Year 1 (2010): 0 sacks
* Year 2 (2011): 1.0 sacks
* Year 3 (2012): 4.0 sacks
Melvin Ingram – San Diego Chargers:
* Year 1 (2012): 1.0 sacks
* Year 2 (2013): 1.0 sacks
* Year 3 (2014): 4.0 sacks
Bud Dupree – Pittsburgh Steelers:
* Year 1 (2015): 4.0 sacks
* Year 2 (2016): 4.5 sacks
* Year 3 (2017): 6.0 sacks
Shaq Barrett – Denver Broncos:
* Year 1 (2014): 5.0 sacks
* Year 2 (2015): 1.5 sacks
* Year 3 (2016): 4.0 sacks
Honorable Mention: Greg Ellis, Derrick Burgess, Bertrand Berry, and countless others.
“It’s A Marathon Not A Sprint”
Young defensive linemen need to develop their technique and skills to be effective in the NFL. This includes having active hands, being able to use a variety of pass rush moves, and learning to read and react to different offensive schemes.
It can take time for them to adjust to the speed and complexity of the game at the professional level, but with dedication, hard work, and good coaching, they can develop into productive players.
Hopefully JTS can have similar success
February 20th, 2023 at 4:20 pm
KC led league in pressures with 178 (a number combining hurries, sacks and actually putting QB on the ground). Eagles and Jags tied at 168, which makes Eagles sack total of 70 even more impressive. Bucs were 14th at 141, which means bucs harassed opposing QBs roughly 2 times a quarter over a 17 game season. They were 22nd in QB hurries and 11th in actually putting the QB on the ground. They gave up the 2nd most TD passes in the league, 10th in yards per game. They intercepted 10 passes all year. They tied for 10th with 104 QB hits, problems is their hurry percentage was 24th in the league (the best pass rushing teams had 25% higher hurry grade). Translation? More often than not, they didn’t bother the QB on a consistent basis. Add to the fact of not stopping the run consistently (15th) overall (a nice 4.5 per rush allowed will always define mediocrity)…and you have an average defense. Take into account their division is home to the 15th, 20th and 22nd ranked offenses which they played 6 times, those defensive numbers are inflated…much like the defense itself.
February 21st, 2023 at 12:56 am
Meh. Who cares about the Jets.
Toad is toast, that’s no boast, he’s worse than most, let’s eat that roast.