Joe Thomas: Bucs’ Offensive Line Is The Problem
January 3rd, 2023
Here’s one for the blame-the-offensive-line crowd.
Legendary left tackle Joe Thomas, likely a first-ballot Hall of Famer in a matter of weeks, thinks the Bucs’ offensive line is bad and not good enough to survive in the playoffs.
That’s what he said on FS1 yesterday, while taking a break from his NFL Network duties.
“For me, the big weakness for the Buccaneers most of the season has been their offensive line. They can’t block. A little bit like the Bills but even worse,” Thomas said. “And so Brady, as fast as he can throw the football, he was still getting hit trying to deliver the football in two seconds.”
Thomas went on to rant that the Panthers’ deficiencies at cornerback Sunday sped up Tom Brady’s timing even faster to take advantage, so the Bucs’ success was more a one-off than a rebirth.
He continued to smack the Bucs, saying too many NFC playoff teams can rush the passer and that’s “a matchup problem” for the Tampa Bay offensive line.
Joe supposes it could be argued all day long. Brady gets the ball out quickly, sure, but his time to throw metric literally is less than five hundreths of a second faster than it was last season, per official NFL technology. So it’s not like Brady has made a radical change.
Also, Brady has the fewest sacks in the NFL among starting quarterbacks this season despite the most throws. And he generally doesn’t take a lot of hits, and he certainly doesn’t scramble.
Joe hopes Brady finds this post and sends it to his linemen. It might be nice motivation and Brady is into poking them with negative takes on their performance.
January 3rd, 2023 at 2:37 pm
I hope we’re underdogs with no chance every single game in the playoffs including the big one
January 3rd, 2023 at 2:38 pm
Despite your protestations, there are obvious indicators that the offensive line is sub par. Look at our rushing statistics. Are we still on pace to be the worst rushing team in the last 50 years? If not, we are still in the conversation and this in a year when the average rush yards per attempt are among the highest in history.
Also, it appears to me that on many plays Brady appears uncomfortable and throwing earlier than he intended.
January 3rd, 2023 at 2:45 pm
Look at those three bombs to Evans. Brady had all day, and a solid pocket to step into. O lineman always say the more time they play together, the better it gets. Could our line be jelling at the right time?
January 3rd, 2023 at 3:06 pm
The Buc’s O-line has definitely struggled all year but I did notice an improvement after they replaced rookie LG Goedeke with Nick Leverett.
D. Smith and Wirfs playing with severe injuries all season has also been an issue…
I thought the line as a group had their best game last Sunday against Carolina. Those deep passes to Mike Evans don’t happen without great protection.
Perhaps they have hit their stride right on time.
January 3rd, 2023 at 3:10 pm
The payoffs start in two weeks – Guys should be getting healthier – would be great news if Ryan Jansen returns – his return would be a nasty attitude needed change for the OL – Evans and Godwin are getting healthier along with Gage and hopefully Jones – at least there seems more optimism instead of all the negative press – GO BUCS
January 3rd, 2023 at 3:10 pm
Maybe we can get Ryan Jensen back for the playoff game. But even if we don’t I like our chances against the Cowboys.
WE beat them once, and I think we can do it again.
January 3rd, 2023 at 3:11 pm
Joe Thomas was an all pro O Lineman, so he probably knows what he’s talking about.
January 3rd, 2023 at 3:15 pm
Smith, Leverett, Hainsey, Mason, Wirfs
Smith: Bad year. Previous 2 years were great. He can turn it around.
Leverett: Serviceable
Hainsey: Good
Mason: Solid
Wirfs: Pro Bowl
Jensen, if healthy, would be a big boost. I can see him coming in for Leverett and this group becoming dominant for the playoffs.
January 3rd, 2023 at 3:16 pm
They’re okay in pass-blocking, but garbage at run-blocking.
First round playoff loss… then we start looking at how to improve the O-line for next year.
Will a better OC make a difference? New line coaches? How many new players?
January 3rd, 2023 at 3:19 pm
One more observation …
Luke Goedeke got in the last game for 7 snaps. He wasn’t awesome but at least he provides depth.
January 3rd, 2023 at 3:22 pm
Against Carolina we did much better than normal pass blocking. A few breakdowns, sure, but overall much better and Carolina has a good pass rush.
@Crissatappleroofing: I like our chances vrs Cowboys too.
January 3rd, 2023 at 3:22 pm
The issue is that we have TE’s that can’t run block and struggle in the passing game.
January 3rd, 2023 at 3:24 pm
Slypirate: was like in there on special teams or just relief?
January 3rd, 2023 at 3:25 pm
Run the hurry up offense early and often.
January 3rd, 2023 at 3:26 pm
Bucs4ever: I think the TEs have hit the rookie wall.
January 3rd, 2023 at 3:28 pm
Well…..he’s not wrong
January 3rd, 2023 at 3:30 pm
The Bucs are in the top five in both false start and offensive holding penalties, and the O-line is a major contributor on those calls. Clean that up, and there will be a big improvement!
January 3rd, 2023 at 3:33 pm
Well if Ryan Jensen comes back then this line looks completely different especially if Wirfs and Smith get a couple weeks to heal up before the playoff game.
January 3rd, 2023 at 3:35 pm
I’ve moved on to next year because this team isn’t going anywhere.
How much can they improve without major personnel overhaul, which is impossible given the cap crunch and limited draft capital?
Suppose they move Wirfs to LT:
LT Wirfs
LG Hainsey
C Jensen
RG Mason
RT drafted player
Interior depth: Leverett, Goedeke,
Tackle depth: Walton, ???
This above assumes D. Smith is released…
What if D. Smith were retained, and moved to LG? Could he be a better player there?
Is moving Wirfs to LT even a good idea?
This should be an interesting offseason.
January 3rd, 2023 at 3:37 pm
Maybe Joe you made up your mind on this topic already because fans are usually complaining about the OL, that if anyone mentions the OL you assume it’s that same bias against them..
I’d make the same argument about the OC.. or HC… any struggle and fans blame the OC… the same exact OC from the previous 2 years that led a superbowl run and 3 straight playoff appearances.. the same OC that helped the team average 31 last year…
It couldn’t possibly be Ali Marpet retiring and Jensen and Stinnie being out all year.. I mean what does talent even matter right?? Just put any OL out there right?? The OC should be able to manage..
Joe Thomas is not the only player to say this.. he’s a HOFer mind you
January 3rd, 2023 at 3:37 pm
I believe the oline is the same now as when we beat the Cowboys in game one of the season.
January 3rd, 2023 at 3:40 pm
Hodad … ‘O lineman always say the more time they play together, the better it gets. Could our line be jelling at the right time?’
I think there’s an excellent possibility that our OLine is in fact developing some chemistry, and that’s a very good thing. They don’t appear to be the most talented group in the NFL, but they may simply be getting to the ‘good enough’ status right about now.
Panthers’ defense didn’t have a particularly good day Sunday (hey, they did give up 30 points), but they still sacked Brady 3 times, got 8 QB hits & 8 TFLs. That doesn’t say a whole bunch about our OLine’s blocking. But they stood tall when it counted, and that may be ‘good enough’.
But they weren’t alone & that means a lot too. Brady was 3-for-5 on his deep ball throws and they weren’t just ‘good throws’ they were perfect throws (Evans had a step on his man and caught each of them in stride over his shoulder). Brady also hit a number of intermediate throws, and several of those were critical in keeping drives alive. And his short throws were pretty much dimes. All-in-all, his best day behind the wheel I thought.
Of course he did have a lot of help from his receivers. ME13 was 10-of-12; CG14 was 9-of-9, Gage was 3-of-3, Julio was 1-of-2 (a nice one), Fournette was 4-of-4 and White was 5-of-5. So just for those 5 players, that’s 32-of-35. Both our TEs had an off day receiving though (Otton was 2-for-6 and Kieft was 0-for-1). About as close to a perfect day as this Bucs’ offense has had. And that’s what it’ll take to go anywhere in the playoffs.
January 3rd, 2023 at 3:59 pm
As much as Joe will go on about the oline being good I just don’t think they are, up until the fourth quarter it looked bad they have yet to complete a full four quarters of good football. The run game looks awful the rbs get met behind the line of scrimmage a lot. 3 sacks and 8 qb hits (thanks defense rules) is not a good day for the oline. Mike beat a bad cornerback so the offense is far from being fixed.
January 3rd, 2023 at 4:02 pm
If Jenson does come back which is not a given does he play guard or center. Would be huge for the oline if he can come back.
January 3rd, 2023 at 4:04 pm
Blasphemy!
We just won a game, they’re the best………although we had to have the punter save us.
BTW…..
Isn’t the long snapper an offensive lineman too?
January 3rd, 2023 at 4:15 pm
If Jensen can play, I’d put him in at LG and keep Hainsey at C……..the fewer changes the better…..in lieu of that, just replace Hainsey with Jensen.
I do think having Jensen back on the line will help with Brady’s confidence.
It can’t be overlooked that we have rookie TEs and a totally washed up Rudolph.
We desperately needed Gronk or at least a player like Auclair or Stocker……
January 3rd, 2023 at 4:19 pm
The OL can’t run block. They run block like they are pass blocking. Rarely is there any push, at all. The opposing DL remains at the LOS waiting for the ball carrier and closing whatever narrow crack of a gap the poor RB seems to be heading towards.
Some run blocking would be nice. That’s the biggest deficiency.
January 3rd, 2023 at 4:20 pm
The playoffs might be delayed a week so the canceled Heart Attack game can be played? What will they do?
January 3rd, 2023 at 4:36 pm
25% is the O line. 75% is lack of NWFL ( National WOKE Football League) caliber coaching.
January 3rd, 2023 at 4:39 pm
I don’t believe Hainsey has played as good as some put on. He gets a pass for some reason. I believe Leverette has played better. Hainsey gets pushed back in Brady’s lap way too often for my liking.
January 3rd, 2023 at 4:51 pm
Thank you! Joe Thomas, a future HOF, knows better than all these pontificating that this OL isn’t anything but below average most games. Everyone with eyes knows this! Who’s gonna dispute Joe Thomas?
January 3rd, 2023 at 4:54 pm
Sacks cannot be used as a measuring stick for Brady. He gets the ball out quickly! Of course he doesn’t have many sacks. Everyone knows this. It’s been that way for 23 years! How can anyone dispute Joe Thomas is amazing. They’re just stuck on a untrue narrative. Facts over feelings.
January 3rd, 2023 at 4:56 pm
Hainsey is bad.. bad bad.. sorry.. notnsure where the love comes from at all cause watching him closely, he’s getting pushed around out there.. Nick Leverett looks solid.. its the center that needs help desperately
January 3rd, 2023 at 5:00 pm
Agree, Kentucky Buc, and that’s been my point of emphasis almost all season: This OL gets pushed back way too much. Too much so that the pocket is in Brady’s lap in only roughly 2 seconds – and that’s pass pro, which this line is much better at (serviceable?) than run blocking.
This line is WAY below average, perhaps bordering on abhorrent, at run blocking, evidenced by our putridly pathetic and historically bad run game this year.
Whether this group can turn it up and turn it around for the playoffs is anyone’s guess. 2 bright spots? Against a good Cincy team…against a good D front of the Panthers, if recency bias has any merit. So, who knows?
Let’s all just hope the Good Bucs show up starting in the playoffs, and not the Bad Bucs.
January 3rd, 2023 at 5:01 pm
Buc4evr – Gronk said at one point he was going to Tampa “to block, man”. I think there is more than we think to his loss. He helped in pass protection when needed and also helped the run game.
January 3rd, 2023 at 5:09 pm
Bucsfan13 Says:
January 3rd, 2023 at 4:54 pm
Sacks cannot be used as a measuring stick for Brady. He gets the ball out quickly! Of course he doesn’t have many sacks. Everyone knows this. It’s been that way for 23 years! How can anyone dispute Joe Thomas is amazing. They’re just stuck on an untrue narrative. Facts over feelings.
_________
I wholeheartedly agree that this OL is not great and seldom even good. Brady’s quick release does make them look better than they are statistically…… however, Brady had 7 or 8 years where he took 30 or more sacks and a couple of those seasons he was 40 or more.
January 3rd, 2023 at 5:19 pm
I think the coordinator is more offensive than the line.
January 3rd, 2023 at 6:29 pm
I think Hainsey has played as good, as possibly could be expected, he was thrown into a spot where he didn’t think he’d be. I think he’s been injured a bunch of times, but make no mistake about it. If Jensen comes back, it’s his position and it’s a huge upgrade.
January 3rd, 2023 at 6:45 pm
DR, great point. Go Bucs!
January 3rd, 2023 at 6:59 pm
I blame Brady and the RBs. Brady was only sacked 3 times Sunday, despite proclamations of greatness on JBF. The RBs averaged 2.2 yards per carry, which is 0.3 yards above the usual level of Buc running mediocrity.
January 3rd, 2023 at 8:34 pm
Historically bad run game,
tell us all we need to know.
O L I N E has been B A D to M E D I O C R E .
January 3rd, 2023 at 8:56 pm
I’m surprised that people aren’t calling out the offensive coordinator for a good chunk of this.
There are loads of teams with worse lines that make them work better then we can.
Granted I’m fairly confident the coordinator is the issue here again. Also the punt mess up was Keith Armstrong’s unit. Who has never had a good ST unit.
January 3rd, 2023 at 9:03 pm
Joe Thomas is bulls eye. Correct.
One struggling near loss vs. a team with a losing record does not suddenly make this team different, great or properly coached. A few series in which Brady had a clean(er) pocket, for the first time all season, does not suddenly mean this OL is not makeshift, full of overrated backup JAGs and injured guys.
Whatever they do or don’t do in the next game, against another team with a losing record, doesn’t matter much either.
January 3rd, 2023 at 9:31 pm
PassingThru … ‘The RBs averaged 2.2 yards per carry’.
Did you see the part about the Panthers getting 8 TFLs? Not much a RB can do when he’s wrapped up by the defense as soon as he takes the handoff.
January 3rd, 2023 at 9:33 pm
The line is a lot closer than it was earlier this season. Hainsey has almost figured it out. Leaverett is also much closer to a left guard than Goedecke was, though that might change. Mason and Wirfs are solid.
There are some pass rushers that one guy can’t block without some help.
I still blame Leftie for not being able to see match-up problems.
January 3rd, 2023 at 9:36 pm
Steele … ‘Whatever they do or don’t do in the next game, against another team with a losing record, doesn’t matter much either’.
Normally I’d agree with you Steele, but IF this team can win 3 in a row, that’s a MAJOR accomplishment & should give them all a confidence boost going into the playoffs.
Almost all of the playoff teams will be dealing with their own injuries (kinda like Kansas City back in the 2020 Super Bowl?). That’s why folks usually say that anything can happen once you get into the playoffs. You never know who’s gonna beat who or who you’ll get to play next (assuming there is a ‘next’ of course).
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:11 pm
Joe, there is an analysis showing that the OL is one of the worst. TB is ranked 9th at the hits, indicating that TB has been trying to avoid a sack by rushing a throw.
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:42 pm
Joe says: his time to throw metric literally is less than five hundreths of a second faster than it was last season, per official NFL technology.
This is an average, Joseph: This oline, if anything, is inconsistent. Yeah sometimes they give Brady some time ( with the help of a Tampa heat wave…lol. Come on Joe, really?) At times it’s been a jail break, so this metric is bogus.
My Momma has spoken.
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:50 pm
Joe doesn’t like to criticize the oline.
Vlad has no such qualms.
Pass blocking was great last week.
Run blocking has been a shambles ever since Jensen left.
Period
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:51 pm
FACT: Bucs oline cannot run block to save their lives
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:54 pm
Vlad has been watching American football since it’s inception in 1869 so Vlad has great historical perspective, and this oline cannot run block
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:55 pm
Vlad has been watching American football since it’s inception in 1869 so Vlad has great historical perspective, and this oline cannot run block
January 4th, 2023 at 1:57 am
Joe – comparing last years time to throw metric to this years is actually an apples to oranges comparison if your goal is using go disprove that it’s low becuse brady is forced to get rid of the ball one year vs another.
Last year we had Gronk, AB, 100% healthy Godwin, and Mike Evans. Being the GOAT that he is, Brady is making pre snap reads and knows who’s mismatched every play. He hiked the ball and knew exactly where he’s going with it. That’s the major contributor to his time to throw last year.
This year we’ve had banged receivers, no AB, no Gronk, often no Julio or Gage, Godwin who came back a shell of himself and has been working himself back to for as the season goes on – and the line lost Jensen, Marpet, Cappa, Stinnie, Gronk.. obviously the line is way worse then the previous year and obvious there isn’t the luxury of having a clear talent mismatch on multiple routes per play. Just look with your eyes the difference in these games. As recently as the Cardinals game, Brady without Donovan Smith was clearly trying to move the offense without holding on to the ball for more than 2.0 seconds – he knew he has no shot if he didn’t release it soon after receiving it
January 4th, 2023 at 4:21 am
Joe apparently can’t handle the truth. The o-line is the problem, not the QB. Dude is such a closet brady hater it’s hilarious lol
January 4th, 2023 at 8:01 am
NFL coaches and players, living and dead, have stated for decades that the chemistry between the OLine players takes time to jell. That could be happening now. This fan sure hopes so.
January 4th, 2023 at 9:27 am
It’s amazing that anyone could even debate whether the Bucs’ o-line has been absolutely terrible for most of the season. It must come from all of the Brady hater talking points. They can’t use that fake made up troll talking point anymore about how Brady can’t win a game without the best o-line in the NFL.
Which of course was always a ridiculous trolling point. As bad as this Bucs o-line is, it’s way better than that 2015 Patriots o-line was.
January 4th, 2023 at 9:30 am
What does Joe Thomas know about playoffs? He may have played the position, but he doesn’t know anything about the Bucs o-line. They are fine. Brady’s quickness to throw is almost entirely a result of play design. He takes the snap, one step, throws, or out of the shotgun, he catches, cocks, throws. That is his and Leftwich’s desire to throw it quick, not because there is no protection. Our biggest difference from season’s past is the unwillingness to throw the ball down the field, and it has way more to do with the emphasis of the offensive playcalling than the necessity to get rid of the ball. An NFL receiver can cover 20 yards in about 2.5 seconds, if a QB throws the ball down the field then, it will take another 1.5-2.0 seconds to arrive 40 yards down field (where the receiver will be 20 yards down field). A 40 yard pass completion can be thrown in 2.5 seconds. Contrary to popular opinion, you don’t need 4-5 seconds in the pocket to throw a deep ball. You just need a clean release and to actually run a deep pattern.
January 4th, 2023 at 9:35 am
DoooshLaRue Says:
January 3rd, 2023 at 5:09 pm
Bucsfan13 Says:
January 3rd, 2023 at 4:54 pm
Sacks cannot be used as a measuring stick for Brady. He gets the ball out quickly! Of course he doesn’t have many sacks. Everyone knows this. It’s been that way for 23 years! How can anyone dispute Joe Thomas is amazing. They’re just stuck on an untrue narrative. Facts over feelings.
_________
I wholeheartedly agree that this OL is not great and seldom even good. Brady’s quick release does make them look better than they are statistically…… however, Brady had 7 or 8 years where he took 30 or more sacks and a couple of those seasons he was 40 or more.
———————————————————–
Brady haters made up a troll talking point that the Patriots always had the best o-line in the NFL, as a way to discredit anything Brady accomplished. The truth is that there were several years in which the Patriots had bad o-lines. The worst was in 2015, when they clearly had the worst o-line in the league. They still could have won the Superbowl that season, if their kicker, Gostkowski didn’t miss an extra point in the AFC title game.
So Brady has a long history of making bad o-lines seem decent. This Bucs o-line has been absolutely terrible, and Brady has made their sack stats look way better than they should be.
January 4th, 2023 at 10:15 am
Lol huge reminder that fans have zero clue
This person really said, “What does Joe Thomas know”
Lol proving my point that fans only know two things. Blame the coach, or blame the OL.. and any HOF player that disagrees.. “they don’t know football”
Ok coach warriors.. keep blaming coaches.. meanwhile the Bucs OL will be addressed in the draft for a reason.. but carry on
January 4th, 2023 at 11:22 am
They seem to be doing slightly better at pass protection but they still can’t run block for sh!t.